HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official Ilya Kovalchuk Thread

View Poll Results: Sign Ilya Kovalchuk?
YES! 107 45.92%
NO! 112 48.07%
Neutral/Indifferent 14 6.01%
Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-23-2010, 06:47 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,334
vCash: 500
The Official Ilya Kovalchuk Thread

Ilya Kovalchuk this. Ilya Kovalchuk that. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!

He scores 40 plus goals playing in meaningless games for the Atlanta Thrashers. He wants the max and a long term contract. Turned down ridiculous money to stay in Atlanta. They traded him to New Jersey which was a fine team without him. Kovalchuk made zero impact for them. In fact,Atlanta was the same team without him. They were not making the playoffs with him. New Jersey would have won the division and lost in the first round without him too. The Flyers blew an 8 point lead with 2 weeks left in the season and made the playoffs on a marketing gimmick but they beat Kovalchuk's team in 5 games. Kovalchuk wants the big money which comes with responsibility.

In the Olympics,Kovalchuk was nowhere to be found. In the game against Canada,you could see Kovalchuk literally melt into the ice. That was how out of place he was.

In the playoffs against the Flyers,he scored an empty net goal and a 5 on 3 goal where Kimmo Timmonen decided to throw a hit on Zach Parise in the corner taking himself out of the play(Parise made a great play chipping the puck back to Kovalchuk),Blair Betts made his only mistake in the series by taking himself out of the play when he went down to block the shot and Kovalchuk made one of his individualistic moves to put the puck past Brian Boucher. Kovalchuk never gelled with any of the Jersey players. All of his moves are individual plays. Off the rush. Using his speed or one timing the puck. He doesn't how to play a team game and hasn't won a thing in his career. 1-8 in the playoffs. He isn't Crosby. Kovalchuk isn't worth 1/2 the money he wants this summer. Yeah I know Crosby isn't available but that doesn't mean the Rangers should sign an inferior player to the highest paid contract because he's available. That's the same warped logic responsible for the Rangers having 1 Cup in 70 years. Kovalchuk is NOT a difference maker. Any team attaching their fortunes to Kovalchuk has issues. Kovakchuk is SOOOO OVERRATED it isn't funny.

If 10 seasons of Glen Sather at the helm hasn't destroyed the franchise,then signing Kovalchuk for $8 million or $9 million or $10 million for a minimum of 5-6-7-8 years will serve as the final death knell of the New York Rangers.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 06:56 AM
  #2
Carlos Ranger
Zucc-a-Rella
 
Carlos Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,228
vCash: 50
Agreed, and unfortunately..

Quote:
that doesn't mean the Rangers should sign an inferior player to the highest paid contract because he's available. That's the same warped logic responsible for the Rangers having 1 Cup in 70 years. Kovalchuk is NOT a difference maker.
Kovakchuk is SOOOO OVERRATED it isn't funny.
Sounds exactly like a Glen Sather move to me.

"Rangers need a center? Whose the best free agents available? Gomez? Ok sign him. Wait Drury is available too, ok sign him, he scored a few big goals, and we could use that"

"Rangers need a puck moving D? Hey Wade Redden is UFA this year, and he used to do that pretty well.. let's make a $40mil gamble."

"Rangers need offense at any cost or I'll soon be out of a job? Kovalchuk here I come... after I light this cigar."


Last edited by Carlos Ranger: 04-23-2010 at 07:04 AM.
Carlos Ranger is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 06:59 AM
  #3
FATCHAMALA11
Kneel Before Zod
 
FATCHAMALA11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 3,632
vCash: 500
I'll take him here. We need more then one person who can score.

FATCHAMALA11 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:08 AM
  #4
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Pass as well, but purely based off the money.

Rather have Volchenkov/Martin and Plekanec for 9 mil than Kovy for the same amount.

However, I wouldn't completely judge his game based off his time with the Devs. He's just an awful fit for their system.

Ian is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:14 AM
  #5
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 17,003
vCash: 500
You need to stop, RB. I'm starting to slip off the Kovy bandwagon.

I think right now I'm 50-50. Two weeks ago I was 90-10

I'm starting to think that:

a) Kovy's stock went down a bit because of the Devils trade. He didnt score goals like he did in Atlanta. In fact, he averaged .37 GPG -- the lowest of his career -- while playing in NJ. That's barely 30 goals over a full 82

b) Dolan may not care and basically order or imply that Redden should be demoted and Kovalchuk should be signed for revenue purposes. Money aside, Dolan and Sather probably think that the Rangers are a better team with Gaborik and Kovalchuk operating on two different lines.

c) Kovalchuk is going to want to get as far away from the area as possible. He made himself look like a fool with that guarantee. I think he liked the warm weather in Atlanta and wants a similar setting, so LA would be a great destination for him.


So, I think the Rangers aggressively target Kovalchuk, but ultimately he wants no part of the Rangers and heads out to the West Coast.

I still think Redden gets demoted or bought out, Kovy or no Kovy.

GWOW is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:19 AM
  #6
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,972
vCash: 500
He wants too much money for what he is, yeah, which is why the only Kovalchuk contract i'd even consider would be a Hossa-type contract.

The money can and likely will be better allocated.

Fitzy is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:24 AM
  #7
Shadowtron
Registered User
 
Shadowtron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,532
vCash: 500
I'm on the No Ko bandwagon as well. I know we need secondary scroring, but we shouldn't be making that big of a splash to get it. Especially not with the choke hold Sather has on our Cap. Get a bonadfide 25-30 goal scorer and we'll be set. If that player doesn't exist on the market, then you address other needs and hope for the best next season.

Shadowtron is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:31 AM
  #8
omgShakeNbake
 
omgShakeNbake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: Greece
Posts: 95
vCash: 500
everyone does not need to worry, after seeing Kovalchuk bomb in the playoffs and do absolutely nothing to help his team win, his stock went down.

no team will offer that guy 11mill... my guess

((all speculation))...

marty calls it quits and they resign Kovalchuk...

((Reason being is because Marty has not helped his team make it into the second round since like 07 when they got spanked by the Sens))

Kovalchuk has officially become the new Hossa...

((maybe this means the black hawks will win the cup this year))

omgShakeNbake is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:31 AM
  #9
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
He wants the max and a long term contract.
I want Jessica Alba and a yacht in the Caribbean.

What he wants and what he'll get are two different things. And, that's not exactly what he's asked for [see below].

Kovalchuk for 8.5-9.5 long term is a reasonable deal for his performance.

Kovalchuk was not the Devils' offensive problem: Parise, Elias, Langenbrunner, and Zajac didn't show up, and their defense is worse than the Rangers. The Devils ship has been sinking since January (something like a .430 win % since then, which is worse than the Rangers, and altogether terrible).

Kovalchuk being sent to the Devils may also help whoever signs him by preventing his price from being driven up even higher.

No one is advocating giving him $11.5m long term. We're advocating contacting him on July 1st and at least being involved in the bidding. Kovalchuk (through his agent) has stated he wants a max deal or 120 million long term.

Kovalchuk's 27 years old... it's time we abuse the 40+ loophole.

$120 for 13 years (takes him to 40) works out to a cap hit of $9.23.

120 for 15 years (takes him to 42) works out to a cap hit of $8 million. [My preference].

[Note: Either deal would be front loaded with the implicit assumption that he gets most of his money before he's ~37 and retires thereafter].

Kovalchuk is the best player that will hit UFA in the next 5 years, at least. For a team that is devoid of offensive talent other than Gaborik, you have to at least make an offer.

EDIT:

For those that don't do their own research:

Quote:
His agent says they are looking for the league maximum of $11.2 million per year, or a total commitment of about $120 million on a long-term deal, but others wonder if that number would drop somewhat if he lands in the city where he wants to be.
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie/?id=308816

azrok22 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:33 AM
  #10
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Cheers to no Kovalchuk! We won't win any more games with him.

GothamRanger is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:35 AM
  #11
FutureGM97
Registered User
 
FutureGM97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Connecticut, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,833
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FutureGM97
I am not interested in Kovalchuk at all. I would rather spend all that money on a few players rather than one. Sather has given big money to enough guys...its time to use the $$ in a wiser fashion. Adding just one player to the roster, like Kovalchuk, doesn't solve anything. Go out and grab someone for the blueline and get another scorer.

FutureGM97 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:36 AM
  #12
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,533
vCash: 500
I'd take him regardless of what he did in NJ or in the Olympics, but not for the max salary, which someone will probably give him.

The same as Gaborik? Yeah I'd give him that. $10+ mill? No. Not just because of his struggles when it counts, but it's hard on the cap to deal with that much money on a guy who isn't clearcut a top 3 player in the league.

I think it's also fair to say that New Jersey wasn't a good fit for him and that wasn't really his fault...Lemaire did a really bad job coaching that team, and Kovalchuk was never a good fit right from the start. Lou kinda messed up...either in getting a player that doesn't fit or by continuing to run a team philosophy that hasn't gotten them out of the second round in years and contributes to embarrassing playoff losses like this series.

At any rate, yeah I'd take him in a certain situation, but that situation realistically isn't going to happen...someone is going to throw a ton of money at him and it shouldn't be the Rangers. And that is all assuming they could even make cap space

Levitate is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:38 AM
  #13
King of cool
The winning hat
 
King of cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Under your skin
Country: France
Posts: 2,001
vCash: 500
Memo to Kovalchuk: DO NOT guarantee a game if you can't back it up. These shoes are too big for you... DO NOT want him... We're not one Kovalchuk away from the cup.

King of cool is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:40 AM
  #14
pwoz
Registered User
 
pwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,569
vCash: 500
I was about 90-10, but now around 60-40... he is a 40 goal scorer... with Gaborik we'd have two 80-100 point players... all the best teams do..

pwoz is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:41 AM
  #15
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Lou kinda messed up
Lou demonstrated that he has no clue how to succeed in the playoffs in the post-lockout era.

Big name acquisitions on the trade deadline do not work. See Smyth, Ryan.

With a cap in place, you need to spend the money/assets you have on your team's weaknesses. The Devils' weakness was on defense (which other than Martin and Oduya was god awful). What does Lou do? Trade his second best defenseman for a winger (albeit, a dynamic offensive winger).

If Lou didn't have his pre-lockout reputation to live off of, the Rock would've erupted with chants of "Fire Lou" weeks ago.

EDIT: At the deadline the Devils could've gone out and added two to three solid defenseman for less than he paid for Kovalchuk (who are capable of not melting when faced with a forecheck of any potency - Seidenberg, etc.).

azrok22 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:43 AM
  #16
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Pass as well, but purely based off the money.

Rather have Volchenkov/Martin and Plekanec for 9 mil than Kovy for the same amount.

However, I wouldn't completely judge his game based off his time with the Devs. He's just an awful fit for their system.
So, it's better to overpay for 2nd tier talent than elite talent? I highly doubt Plekanec/Volchenkov will cost $9 million. You know what production you get from Kovalchuk...40+ goals six straight years. I'm sorry, but, I don't think the combination of 2nd tier talents matches that kind of production.

jas is online now  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:46 AM
  #17
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
So, it's better to overpay for 2nd tier talent than elite talent? I highly doubt Plekanec/Volchenkov will cost $9 million. You know what production you get from Kovalchuk...40+ goals six straight years. I'm sorry, but, I don't think the combination of 2nd tier talents matches that kind of production.
Agree completely. We've tried the second tier talent think.

The only UFA we've signed recently that has been a success was Gaborik... follow that model... not the Redden, Drury, Gomez model (which Plekanac and Volchenkov will be).

EDIT: Go with Kovalchuk or only short-term (1-2 year) UFA signings, imo.

azrok22 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:46 AM
  #18
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,533
vCash: 500
I want no part of Volchenkov, because you just know someone is going to drastically overpay for a one dimensional defenseman. Yeah, he's good defensively with his shot blocking and hitting, etc, but that doesn't make him worth the $5 mill or so he's probably going to get.

I'd be intrigued to get Martin but again, he's probably going to cost a lot. Same with Plekanec...basically all these guys are good players but will get hugely inflated salaries by being FA's and then probably fail to live up to them. It's a classic FA trap.

Levitate is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:47 AM
  #19
azrok22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I want no part of Volchenkov, because you just know someone is going to drastically overpay for a one dimensional defenseman. Yeah, he's good defensively with his shot blocking and hitting, etc, but that doesn't make him worth the $5 mill or so he's probably going to get.

I'd be intrigued to get Martin but again, he's probably going to cost a lot. Same with Plekanec...basically all these guys are good players but will get hugely inflated salaries by being FA's and then probably fail to live up to them. It's a classic FA trap.
This looks familiar. Where have I seen this before?

azrok22 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:48 AM
  #20
asparkoflife
Registered User
 
asparkoflife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Patterson, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,446
vCash: 500
I want no part of this guy.

asparkoflife is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:51 AM
  #21
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Agree completely. We've tried the second tier talent think.

The only UFA we've signed recently that has been a success was Gaborik... follow that model... not the Redden, Drury, Gomez model (which Plekanac and Volchenkov will be).

EDIT: Go with Kovalchuk or only short-term (1-2 year) UFA signings, imo.
To me, it's Kovalchuk, or don't bother. The elite talents are not where the big money mistakes are made. It's the 2nd tier...great instead of one expensive, but highly productive player, we get a bunch of slightly less expensive, but, nowhere near as productive players. Yeah, let's not spend $9.5 million on Kovalchuk, let's spend $11 million on a 2nd line center and a defensive D-man. That'll make the Rangers much better with less cap issues.

jas is online now  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:53 AM
  #22
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
So, it's better to overpay for 2nd tier talent than elite talent? I highly doubt Plekanec/Volchenkov will cost $9 million. You know what production you get from Kovalchuk...40+ goals six straight years. I'm sorry, but, I don't think the combination of 2nd tier talents matches that kind of production.
I don't think his logic was that the sum of parts will equal the whole of one. It had more to do with let's spend our money where we need the most help, not get a player who's role we've already filled and will cost more in that.

GothamRanger is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:53 AM
  #23
jacko23
KCCO!
 
jacko23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greensboro, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 585
vCash: 500
I'm saying...

...no. when the Kovy train of thought arrived, i was for it if the cap situation made it somewhat possible. then looking at him in the olympics and on the devils, he's not the player i thought he was. (not much of a TEAM player, little hustle on the back check) i saw him play in one of the last reg season games in carolina, and was lucky enough to be sitting behind the devils bench. well, not "lucky". he had his rear parked on the bench so much it was unbelievable. he looked detatched from the team, quiet on the bench. doesnt seem like the kind of stuff i want on the Rangers bench either.

jacko23 is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:53 AM
  #24
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
So, it's better to overpay for 2nd tier talent than elite talent? I highly doubt Plekanec/Volchenkov will cost $9 million. You know what production you get from Kovalchuk...40+ goals six straight years. I'm sorry, but, I don't think the combination of 2nd tier talents matches that kind of production.
A star or two surrounded by mediocre talent does nothing but create a few exciting plays, sell a few jerseys and ultimately miss the playoffs. We've seen it the past few years.

I'd bet just about anything that replacing Redden and say Jokinen with Plekanec/Volchenkov ends up in a better team than if you replaced them with Kovy/bottom of the barrel 6th D.

It's easy to say "well adding Kovy in place of Prospal would give us a net gain of 20~ goals," but allowing every player in the organization to play in a proper role is just as important, this team might actually have more than one line that does something.

And I don't even think 9 mil for those two is an overpayment, they are that good.

Ian is offline  
Old
04-23-2010, 07:53 AM
  #25
shoothepuck
88
 
shoothepuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: upstate
Country: Italy
Posts: 12,197
vCash: 500
He was as big a no show in NJ as Zherdev was for us last season. NY has to stay away from the long term big money contract he wants, but how many other legit scorers are out there. This team needs a legit D man and has other depth issues that need to be filled.

shoothepuck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.