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Chris Pronger not included in the Norris Trophy final 3?!?!

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Old
04-23-2010, 01:52 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I really think this Caps group can be intimidated... so I hope he shows up and lights up guys like Semin and Green early on.
And Carcillo.

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04-23-2010, 02:00 PM
  #52
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Let me guess, the lead story in every hockey show will, once again, be about creating another award for most points by a defenceman. I obviously feel the Norris should be awarded to the best all around player and because of that its hard not to look at Doughty's (Marginally)and Green's (entirely) inclusion as another desperate attempt by the league to attract and broaden their new younger demographic at the expense of their long time fans.

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04-23-2010, 02:04 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKurri'soupkitchen View Post
Let me guess, the lead story in every hockey show will, once again, be about creating another award for most points by a defenceman. I obviously feel the Norris should be awarded to the best all around player and because of that its hard not to look at Doughty's (Marginally)and Green's (entirely) inclusion as another desperate attempt by the league to attract and broaden their new younger demographic at the expense of their long time fans.
Doughty has been awesome at both ends, I have no problem with his inclusion and he should win IMO which is scary considering he's 20.

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04-23-2010, 02:06 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MrKurri'soupkitchen View Post
Let me guess, the lead story in every hockey show will, once again, be about creating another award for most points by a defenceman. I obviously feel the Norris should be awarded to the best all around player and because of that its hard not to look at Doughty's (Marginally)and Green's (entirely) inclusion as another desperate attempt by the league to attract and broaden their new younger demographic at the expense of their long time fans.
...Doughty is an absolute stud, and may go on a run of Norris trophies in the coming years (possibly beginning now). I don't think there should be much quibbling in his selection. He brings it at both ends.

Green is another matter.

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04-23-2010, 02:32 PM
  #55
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What site are you guys using for GF/ON and GAA/ON? I'm pretty curious to see what Green's look like. I think Pronger was an absolute snub, but I can see why Green is included. If Duncan Keith had 30 points would he be nominated no. Doughty? no. Green? HELL no. But the fact of the matter is much like the Selke, the award goes to the best guy who also gets a lot of points.

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04-23-2010, 02:47 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
What site are you guys using for GF/ON and GAA/ON? I'm pretty curious to see what Green's look like. I think Pronger was an absolute snub, but I can see why Green is included. If Duncan Keith had 30 points would he be nominated no. Doughty? no. Green? HELL no. But the fact of the matter is much like the Selke, the award goes to the best guy who also gets a lot of points.
www.behindthenet.ca

Green's GF numbers are absolutely insane, but that's true of more than a few Capitals. His GA numbers aren't bad, but the Caps are a better defensive team without him on the ice...and he also didn't play against too tough a group.

Green is obviously a great player, but it's a joke if he wins the Norris.

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04-23-2010, 02:49 PM
  #57
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Don't worry guys. He could win the Conn Smythe instead!

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04-23-2010, 02:50 PM
  #58
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Snubbed? I could name at least 10 D-men better than Pronger this season. He was very, very pedestrian by his standards.

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04-23-2010, 02:53 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mark Stuart View Post
Snubbed? I could name at least 10 D-men better than Pronger this season. He was very, very pedestrian by his standards.
False.

He played a harder shift this year than last....allowed fewer goals... and had the 3rd or 4th best offensive season of his career, and that's with this team going into the tank for nearly 25% of the season.

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04-23-2010, 03:01 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Mark Stuart View Post
Snubbed? I could name at least 10 D-men better than Pronger this season. He was very, very pedestrian by his standards.
I'd be really interested in that list...

On topic, I don't really care to be honest. In my book he was a top3 dman, but it's coming more and more clear that the NHL wants to market the youngsters.
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04-23-2010, 03:19 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mark Stuart View Post
Snubbed? I could name at least 10 D-men better than Pronger this season. He was very, very pedestrian by his standards.
If you're going to troll you could at least try to make it less obvious.

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Old
04-23-2010, 03:25 PM
  #62
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Don't worry guys. He could win the Conn Smythe instead!
Nah, Carcillo is going to take that one down.

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Old
04-23-2010, 03:30 PM
  #63
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That's dumb as hell. I think they are only up there because of points mainly. I think Doughty should be up there though, he's been really good. Keith... even though he had 69 points, he doesn't deserve it. Pronger should of taken his spot. He's also the oldest at 26... no love for older d-men this year? Retarded...

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Old
04-23-2010, 03:31 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
That's dumb as hell. I think they are only up there because of points mainly. I think Doughty should be up there though, he's been really good. Keith... even though he had 69 points, he doesn't deserve it. Pronger should of taken his spot. He's also the oldest at 26... no love for older d-men this year? Retarded...
Keith has been the "pick" all year whenever I read about this stuff... zero shock he's there.

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04-23-2010, 03:37 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Keith has been the "pick" all year whenever I read about this stuff... zero shock he's there.
Imagine if Green played for any other team, do you think he would have the points he has? I think it's not that he's not good, even though I like his shot, but the fact of everyone else. I hate that no one older was picked.

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04-23-2010, 03:43 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Imagine if Green played for any other team, do you think he would have the points he has? I think it's not that he's not good, even though I like his shot, but the fact of everyone else. I hate that no one older was picked.
Better yet...imagine Pronger on the Capitals. Holy ****. Green's points and elite shutdown defense.

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04-23-2010, 03:44 PM
  #67
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Green. Of course ...

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04-23-2010, 03:54 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Better yet...imagine Pronger on the Capitals. Holy ****. Green's points and elite shutdown defense.
I never thought of Green as that great defensively. Compared to Pronger, Lidstrom, Doughty (yes, he's great defensively) and Chara, he is not that great defensively. He can put up points, but he defense is still not as good as some other d-men.

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04-23-2010, 03:56 PM
  #69
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See, you don't understand the statistical analysis I just made...

It doesn't matter who the goalies for the respective teams were. The Blackhawks, as a team, were more likely to be scored on when Keith was on the ice. Now, that isn't shocking, as he played against hard competition for them...meaning you're more likely to be scored on.

The Flyers, as a team, were less likely, demonstrably so, to be scored on when Pronger was on the ice. Which is shocking given that he was playing extremely hard minutes (and carrying Matt Carle around).
It does matter who the goaltender is, considering how much worse Huet was than Niemi. Huet may have been among the 5 worst goaltenders in the league, playing 48 games for a team as good as that. He's the guy stopping the puck isn't he?

Pronger had a really good year, I think some other guys were better, and don't need a calculator to tell me that.

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What the hell are you talking about?

Boyle played easier shifts because Rob Blake was taking the heavy load out there with matchups. Pronger was taking harder shifts because he was the one taking the heavy load for the Flyers in matchups.

EDIT: You do realize that when we discuss "competition" within these statistics it's based on shift charts and tracking who is on the ice at the same time as a guy, right? Same goes for the QUALTEAM statistic.
You can't tell me Boyle wasn't pulling his weight defensively, and was only playing against 3rd and 4th liners for 26 minutes a game. We can get into all of these other numbers all night (a few of them are around the other candidates, some a bit higher, but 26 minutes a game he's gotta be facing other good players, thus doing a good job to warrant the time. And if not, then I guess opposing coaches don't want on the ice against him, which would speak even more to his abilities.

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04-23-2010, 03:58 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I never thought of Green as that great defensively. Compared to Pronger, Lidstrom, Doughty (yes, he's great defensively) and Chara, he is not that great defensively. He can put up points, but he defense is still not as good as some other d-men.
No no. I wasn't saying that Green is an elite defenseman. I'm saying you put Pronger on the Caps to mooch some extra points from their roster, and you end up with all of Green's offense with the benefit of Pronger's unstoppable, scary-calm defense. You lose a bit of speed, but whatever. Pronger on the Capitals is a scary thought.

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04-23-2010, 04:02 PM
  #71
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No no. I wasn't saying that Green is an elite defenseman. I'm saying you put Pronger on the Caps to mooch some extra points from their roster, and you end up with all of Green's offense with the benefit of Pronger's unstoppable, scary-calm defense. You lose a bit of speed, but whatever. Pronger on the Capitals is a scary thought.
Also their cap room would be non existant for god knows how many years lol. This is why we have him and what we gave up for Pronger. And honestly, how we are in the playoffs, was worth every bit of it. Even if it was giving up Sbisa. But to be honest, we got some really good undrafted players signed this year, so I'm not worried about drafts. Pronger is where is supposed to be at for points and doing everything we wanted him to do. I could nominate Pronger just by the fact of literally refacing the team and helping us big time getting further into the playoffs.

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Old
04-23-2010, 04:03 PM
  #72
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pronger was a stud against the devils. he doesnt need any more hardware to validate his career or the type of player he is or has been throughout his career.

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04-23-2010, 04:06 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Also their cap room would be non existant for god knows how many years lol. This is why we have him and what we gave up for Pronger. And honestly, how we are in the playoffs, was worth every bit of it. Even if it was giving up Sbisa. But to be honest, we got some really good undrafted players signed this year, so I'm not worried about drafts. Pronger is where is supposed to be at for points and doing everything we wanted him to do. I could nominate Pronger just by the fact of literally refacing the team and helping us big time getting further into the playoffs.
#1 - Wrong. It is not the Flyers goal to make the playoffs, and they didn't get Pronger just to make the playoffs. If they lose this next round, it's still a colossal disappointment for this team as a whole, not mainly because of him of course, but they will have fallen short of the goal they set when they traded for him.

#2 - These "really good" undrafted players. What have they proven to show that it wasn't a bunch of white noise?

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04-23-2010, 04:10 PM
  #74
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#1 - Wrong. It is not the Flyers goal to make the playoffs, and they didn't get Pronger just to make the playoffs. If they lose this next round, it's still a colossal disappointment for this team as a whole, not mainly because of him of course, but they will have fallen short of the goal they set when they traded for him.

#2 - These "really good" undrafted players. What have they proven to show that it wasn't a bunch of white noise?
It's better than not getting anyone. But honestly, I'd love to see their play and see what they can really do. My mistake. I meant to say to go all the way, but giving up those players was worth it. Pronger has been such a huge game changer for the Flyers, and even so in the playoffs already.

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04-23-2010, 04:12 PM
  #75
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It's better than not getting anyone. But honestly, I'd love to see their play and see what they can really do. My mistake. I meant to say to go all the way, but giving up those players was worth it. Pronger has been such a huge game changer for the Flyers, and even so in the playoffs already.
It is still rather intriguing. You sign 5 of these guys and hope you get something from 2 of them.

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