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Fire Trotz, Tonight!!!

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Old
04-24-2010, 11:04 PM
  #51
PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
We were on the powerplay. Why would you put our PKers out there? Smithson/Boyd? Really?

I can understand not putting Arnott on, but I fully agree with Erat and Ward. The name of the game right then was puck possession. Erat is our best puck possession player, he just made a terrible decision.


You don't call a timeout when you are winning and on the PP. That just lets Chicago rest up their best players and create a game plan.
it was a PP in name only. we should have treated it like a penalty kill.

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Old
04-24-2010, 11:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
it was a PP in name only. we should have treated it like a penalty kill.
Absolutely. That's the part I didn't get.

But someone said, our guys were gassed so that's why it was Arnott's gang. But maybe a timeout then.

Oh well. I'm going to calm down and begin building up hope for Monday. For over 8 minutes our guys held a one goal lead against a tough team in their house. So they were playing. Just needed 15 more seconds.

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Old
04-24-2010, 11:51 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
it was a PP in name only. we should have treated it like a penalty kill.
I disagree. We were in the o-zone. We needed to play keep away and kill time. So you put your best puck possession players out there, not your PKers.

You play to win, not play to not lose. If you just sit back, they will take it. Unfortunately it looks like both were the wrong choice. Chicago just wanted it.

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Old
04-25-2010, 12:47 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Boullion on the PP. Give me a break. Lets put Smithson and Tootoo out there next.
Like this is new? Bouillon has been on the power play all season.

Horachek needs to go. He just hasn't seemed to grasp how a power play is supposed to work. Instead of movement, we're stationary. We take too long to make decisions with the puck and our passes aren't accurate. Some of that is personnel and execution, but it's also partly strategy and plain coaching ability. You have to drill it into these players' heads that passes have to be crisp and accurate, and decisions quick, or you could lose your best scoring chances on the power play. I also think he may have worn out his welcome with the fans.

I would dismiss Horachek and maybe give Lane Lambert a look if he can get the Admirals out of this jam; otherwise, I might try to bring in someone to work almost exclusively on the power play.

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Old
04-25-2010, 01:27 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Every team that does well (as predfan mentioned) has some serious snipers.

When you think Chicago you think Toews, Kane.

Detroit is Datsyuk and Zetterberg

Pittsburgh is Crosby and Malkin

Vancouver is the Sedins


Some teams even have 3 marquee players.
The problem with this is that 3 of those teams got those players by being so bad for yearS that they got top 3 picks multiple times. We've never been that bad to even be in the lottery for a top 5 pick. The highest pick we've ever had was #2, and we had trade up to get it! Our franchise can't afford to tank for years to get those top players.


Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post

Instead of movement, we're stationary. We take too long to make decisions with the puck and our passes aren't accurate. Some of that is personnel and execution, but it's also partly strategy and plain coaching ability. You have to drill it into these players' heads that passes have to be crisp and accurate, and decisions quick, or you could lose your best scoring chances on the power play.
That's been their damn problem all year. They are too slow in their decision making and half the time seem unsure of what to do with the puck when they have it. They panic and shoot it into someone or make a pass to a guy just to get rid of it.




------
Oh, and I would not fire Trotz.

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Old
04-25-2010, 01:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Predanerd View Post
I disagree. We were in the o-zone. We needed to play keep away and kill time. So you put your best puck possession players out there, not your PKers.
Of course you play it in their zone, but the PK part is having guys with speed in case you do turn it over. Because they aren't going to dump it the puck down, they'll be flying out of the zone. They are going to carry and pass the puck, not chase it, so you need able defenders. Ward and Erat are ok, although Erat is not a great defender. I felt Legwand had to be out there. Wilson is also a good puck control man. (Although Trotz probably feared a rookie mistake such, as oh, passing the puck up ice from the end boards...) Someone said guys like Legwand had finished a shift and were gassed.

So, I suppose you're right. Trotz set it up the way he saw it with who he had ready, they just didn't execute.

One thing I had been curious how they'd handle it, while I understand the reason for "keeping it deep" I do not understand just two defenders. That neutral zone should have been so clogged... Instead they were in our zone in a jiffy.

Oh well. Trotz is a very good coach. Glad we have him. I'm sure that wasn't the way it was drawn up.

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Old
04-25-2010, 01:40 AM
  #57
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devastating loss. The Preds are not my main team but I was enraged watching that epic collapse. I'd like to hang the goat horns on Erat, but he was the reason they had the lead in the first place.

They should have gone into a 4-1 trap set-up with chip-and-chase counter --instead they were just way too cavalier with it. Painful to watch.

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Old
04-25-2010, 02:47 AM
  #58
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Come Monday night before game time I think it's time to pull out the classic Over? (John Belushi clip).

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Old
04-25-2010, 05:55 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Sports is entertainment and I am paying to get it. If you keep giving me the same old boring thing, im gonna get bored and move to something else.
Agree 100%. I told my wife earlier in the season that things were gonna have to change or I'm done. While I got out of the down and out state mind for awhile, I am currently deeper in it than ever. May as well start watching women's college basketball.

One or more of the following need to happen or I'm ready to give my time, money, energy and support to another franchise.

1) We comback and win this series.
2) We draft an elite forward prospect, who is ready to contribute.
3) We make a move(s) to get a bona fide scorer and/or gamebreaker.
4) We release Horacek.

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Old
04-25-2010, 09:15 AM
  #60
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OK. Slept on it.

Still sucks just as bad.

But I willl admit that the last act of the usual play hasnt unfolded, yet.

Win tomorrow night, and we'll talk...

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Old
04-25-2010, 09:45 AM
  #61
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We MUST trade up this year and grab a top forward prospect. We can't afford to go out and buy one so why don't we trade up? It isn't like we don't have the bargaining chips. We can't afford a proven scorer but by God we can afford to move up and snag a top prospect who is ready to contribute now.

Why hasn't this been done already? In order for the team to be successful in this market we have to be successful now not later. Our problem is scoring. Why haven't we gotten a scorer after Rads left? If Poile doesn't take a forward/trade up for a better prospect I will be livid.

Think about it this way, if we got a top forward prospect this year and say we traded 1st and gave them our 2nd and mike santo or even
Charles-Olivier Roussel are we really that much worse for a top ten pick?

IF horachek isn't fired, I will bring a sign to every game that says fire peter horachek.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...hieu_perreault I want this guy. I don't know what it would take but we have so many defensive prospects we should get it done.


Last edited by Roman Yoshi: 04-25-2010 at 10:03 AM.
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Old
04-25-2010, 10:17 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
We MUST trade up this year and grab a top forward prospect. We can't afford to go out and buy one so why don't we trade up? It isn't like we don't have the bargaining chips. We can't afford a proven scorer but by God we can afford to move up and snag a top prospect who is ready to contribute now.

Why hasn't this been done already? In order for the team to be successful in this market we have to be successful now not later. Our problem is scoring. Why haven't we gotten a scorer after Rads left? If Poile doesn't take a forward/trade up for a better prospect I will be livid.

Think about it this way, if we got a top forward prospect this year and say we traded 1st and gave them our 2nd and mike santo or even
Charles-Olivier Roussel are we really that much worse for a top ten pick?

IF horachek isn't fired, I will bring a sign to every game that says fire peter horachek.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...hieu_perreault I want this guy. I don't know what it would take but we have so many defensive prospects we should get it done.
jesus, can you at least wait until we are eliminated before spewing the draft spew?

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Old
04-25-2010, 10:26 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
OK. Slept on it.

Still sucks just as bad.

But I willl admit that the last act of the usual play hasnt unfolded, yet.

Win tomorrow night, and we'll talk...
PLEASE READ THIS REPLY EVERYONE, I FEEL VERY REALISTIC



I hear that! Woke up this mornin still raging!

If we lose monday especially, I hope Poile really truly realizes something must be done.

We can afford a guy like Kovalchuk! or Nash!

BUT!

The only way we can have a marquee forward of superstar caliber is if we get rid of guys like Dumont, Arnott and Sully.

Dumont - $4 million a season
Sullivan - $3.8 million a season
Captain no show (arnott) - $4.5 million a season


Even Erat makes just over $5 million a season! and Legwand gets $5 mill!

I am not going to complain to much about playoff performance from Erat and Legwand, especially Legwand who has easily been our best player. Just not during regular season.

Now say we ship out the first three (who are also the three oldest of the 5 mentioned), That saves us $12.3 million a season!!!!

So now we can $12.3 million to play with,


Zetterberg makes 7.4 mill
Ovechkin makes 9 mill
Crosby makes 9 mill
Datsyuk makes 6.7 mill
Nash makes 7 mill
Malkin makes 9 mill

Those are some of the top talents in the league and none make $12.3 million!!

So we ship out the above three, bring in a superstar forward, and then still have another 4-5 million to play with, without going above our current team wage (which seems to be highest ownership will go)

So say for example we get rid of Dumont, Arnott, and Sullivan

and bring in Rick Nash (7 million) and Ryan Getzlaf (5.2 million) We are still under budget 0.1 million bucks! and have way better team!!


Imagine that!!


Nash Getzlaf Hornqvist
Ward Legwand Erat
O'Reilly Wilson Boyd
Tootoo Goc Smithson


and we could have this forward lineup with the exact same payroll!

I am not saying Getzlaf would be drawn out of Anaheim, just using him as example. but Rick Nash may be heading to UFA, which Nashville better dip into this season or many pred fans will be raging!


Just convince some preds to waive their NMC!

Teams would trade young talent for Dumont, Sully, and Arnott. Our lines may even look better than above if we can sign star free agent and wheel and deal abit. Money should not be the problem!


What do you all think??


BTW, keep trotz, fire horacek. Just imagine Barry coaching with some real talent on offense.

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Old
04-25-2010, 10:28 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
We MUST trade up this year and grab a top forward prospect. We can't afford to go out and buy one so why don't we trade up? It isn't like we don't have the bargaining chips. We can't afford a proven scorer but by God we can afford to move up and snag a top prospect who is ready to contribute now.

Why hasn't this been done already? In order for the team to be successful in this market we have to be successful now not later. Our problem is scoring. Why haven't we gotten a scorer after Rads left? If Poile doesn't take a forward/trade up for a better prospect I will be livid.

Think about it this way, if we got a top forward prospect this year and say we traded 1st and gave them our 2nd and mike santo or even
Charles-Olivier Roussel are we really that much worse for a top ten pick?

IF horachek isn't fired, I will bring a sign to every game that says fire peter horachek.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...hieu_perreault I want this guy. I don't know what it would take but we have so many defensive prospects we should get it done.
You know they are gonna draft Defensemen and Goalies this year right. This is exactly what I've been telling everyone they use pick after pick on Defense and never take a chance on a scorer. Wilson was know for his Defense as much as offense. Radalov was a top 5 pick that fell into Polies lap, and Hornqvist is not a sniper. That's it the cupboard is bare and the is no one wants to stock it. It also helps the Defense to have Scorers up front!! The Olympics showed that as Weber and Suter were the best D-men out there because they were not depended on for every freaking thing. Give the Coaches this ultimatum make it to the 2nd round this season or else. No Excuses.


Last edited by Gnashville: 04-25-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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Old
04-25-2010, 10:31 AM
  #65
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Also,
How long do you think Weber and Suter will want to play here if we just keep losing??

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04-25-2010, 11:00 AM
  #66
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Quite frankly, it doesn't matter who signs/drafts with nashville.

Trotz would choke the offense out a line of Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin down to a combined 50 goals on a full season.

It's what he does. It's all he does. And he loves to do it.

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Old
04-25-2010, 11:02 AM
  #67
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I was on the "Fire Trotz" team yesterday as well. I decided not to post on here much because I was so pissed off (and, of course, intoxicated) that I probably would've made an ass of myself. After sleeping on it and allowing my liver to filter the alcohol out of my blood I've decided that it isn't quite time. I don't see who we're going to get to replace Trotz. I have been on the "Fire Horachek" bandwagon for a while now, and that is still a priority in my mind. We HAVE to replace this guy or strip him of as much responsibility as possible. Trotz should be making final decisions on line combos, strategy, etc and Peterson should be right there with him.

Yesterday we failed to come out strong until the third period. I did miss a sizable portion of the second and start of the third (for instance, I missed the go-ahead goal) due to weather reporting, but I'll assume that nothing much changed. When we finally turned it on we looked like a team there to win. We skated hard, put pucks on net, had traffic, and played good defense. Despite it all we ended up shooting ourselves in both feet after failing to kill off one minute of our own powerplay. Erat made a stupid decision with the puck that led to the tying goal. In OT Ward made a stupid decision with the puck that led to the GW goal.

I honestly think this is less of a coaching problem and more of a personnel problem. Something is in the heads of these guys. They get to a clutch moment in the post season and it just screws them up mentally. Ward hasn't played in a post season at all until this year, but some how he made a quintessential Predators play off play. Maybe he watched too much tape...

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Old
04-25-2010, 11:06 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MoveTheTeamAlready View Post
Quite frankly, it doesn't matter who signs/drafts with nashville.

Trotz would choke the offense out a line of Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin down to a combined 50 goals on a full season.

It's what he does. It's all he does. And he loves to do it.
That doesn't explain 2006-2007. We had offensive pieces and played a great offensive game. The trouble that year is we didn't play a good team defense, and we stayed in the penalty box during important games. Trotz is a guru of defensive hockey strategy so he will continually be billed with a reputation of killing offensive instinct, but it simply isn't the case. This team was middle of the pack in scoring with an atrocious PP. It came from balanced scoring which was made possible by great team defense and a solid forecheck. In this playoff series we are tied with Chicago in goals at 12. Two of those goals were empty-netters so we can go ahead and say we trail in goals by two. A team that is being offensively smothered by Trotz is hanging right in there with the exceptional offense of Chicago.

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04-25-2010, 11:31 AM
  #69
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This is almost comical. Fire the guys that took a bunch of 2nd and 3rd line players and make them a playoff team. A 100 point team. Our power play sucks because we don't have anyone to play on it. We have 2 plays available, not because of coaching, but becasue of players. Weber from the blueline, Arnott from the dot. Horny in the middle to clean up. While those are good options, when it's all you got it's easy to defend. But it's what got us here, both in the past season getting us 100 points and in the loss yesterday by not being able to come through when needed. You have to put out the best players you have in that situation. Who would you want out there, Smithson and Tootoo. Erat made the same mistake that Chicago made when we got our shorty. Both had bad outcomes. Changed momentum drastically, allowed us to come back, allowed them to eventually win it. Guess Chicago should fire their coaching staff as well.
Bottom line to this is they are a better team then we are. That cannot be disputed. Doesn't mean we don't have a chance to beat them, we've proven that. Their talent was more then our heart at the right time yesterday. While I don't like the outcome, I'm still proud to be a Preds fan and I will be there Monday making sure that my team knows that.

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04-25-2010, 11:39 AM
  #70
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I'm not down for firing Trotz.

Erat, Dumont, Sullivan, Arnott need to go. I don't care how much you love them, but they are not what we need.

Erat makes too many damn mistakes and kills the entire mojo. Tries to play keep-a-way too damn much with all those spins, then eventually loses the puck or makes a blind pass onto an opposing players stick. He has a knack for scoring big goals, but is that really helpful? Sure, we need OF, but if you're the cause of a lot of miscues, GTFO.

We all know the story on the Sully, Arnott, Dumont. Their time is up, I believe.

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04-25-2010, 11:41 AM
  #71
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It's kinda hard to have a power play when 50% of the powerplay is sitting on the bench.

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04-25-2010, 11:48 AM
  #72
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I was so enraged after yesterday's loss for so many reasons.

1) Watching a friends house on dish and having no option to watch the game on another channel because of WSMV's incompetence to cover a playoff game. If that were the Titans that game would've surely been on. I'd write a letter to the Tennessean but that would be moot as well. Now that I've got that off my chest onto the bigger pressing issues.

2) How do you blow a one goal lead with a little over a minute to go when you're a man up? All we have to do is play keep away. I see where Trotz said Erat should've kept the puck deep. If I recall, Arnott was shooting the puck on net as well. Why in heaven's name were we shooting the puck? Keep possession of the puck and win the game, it's that simple. The thing that irks me and I don't think anyone has touched on is, we win the faceoff, gain control of the puck but only seem to think we have from the blue line in to control the puck, there is 200 feet of ice to work with, a man advantage and a one goal lead. Sure, keeping it down low is great, if we control the puck but if we don't, Chicago takes the puck and heads up ice, which they did. They are then able to control the puck and pull their goalie. Even if we pull the puck out of the offensive zone, we are still controlling the puck and if they pull the goalie, they have to get the puck from us and we now have an empty net to shoot at with control of the puck. What also isn't mentioned in the Kane goal is that there are two Hawks in front of the net with only Ward guarding them. Why are Suter and/or Weber no where to be found? Why do we have one guy in front of the net? Chicago has had basically 5 guys down low all series protecting Niemi but we have one and he's not even a defenseman.

Since Legwand's line had just been on the ice, either call a timeout and get him out there with Sully and Goc or Boyd or even Ward. The last minute of the third should have been a cake walk and instead turned into a cluster puck. You can say it's the players fault but you put guys on the ice that you know can follow simple instructions but also coach them with a few different ideas of what to do out there, first one being, hold onto the puck, win the game. Keeping it low is good if you maintain possession. I'd rather we dumped it back to Rinne and used the entire ice surface than trying to keep possession in the offensive zone.

2) The PP and it's ineptitude. It has now cost us possibly two games instead of one. Game 4 we are down a goal and can't do anything with a 5 on 3. Yesterday, almost 4 minutes on fresh ice going into OT and nothing. Not one goal in 5 games now. One adjustment was made for the most part, bringing in Grebs to replace Franson. Losing Hornqvist hurts our PP but if we lose one guy and our PP is that atrocious, we have major issues. When our PP is successful or any PP is good for that, the puck is doing all the work and passing is crisp. We are too cute, too deliberate and there is no creativity. We also need someone to be able to win a faceoff every so often so we have control of the puck in the zone right off the bat as opposed to wasting time trying to get the puck into the zone. Chicago has scored two PP goals this series within 10 and 15 seconds a piece. How do they do it? Simple, win the faceoff, back to the point, shot on net, guys in front of the net either tip it in or fight for the rebound. Pretty simple concept. Execution on our part has been horrible or that sort of game plan isn't in our play book.

3) Blaming Horachek for the PP solely is unfair as as it's done by committee. Horachek has received plenty of blame for the PP but Peterson has been getting a pass on the PK and it's steady decline over the last few years? Once again, not all on Peterson as it's a committee approach. So where does the ax fall at that point? Ultimately, it's the coaches decision who to put on the ice. To lay the blame on the assistants is just the coach cowering behind the skirt of his assistant to avoid any of the blame. The inability to change anything up on the PP in 5 games is unacceptable. It's not like we have 82 games to right the ship. We have a 7 game series at most to figure things out. Joel Q has made adjustments to his squad and while they appear to have worked, I think we should be up 3-2 at this point and we blew it on basic coaching concepts. Either the whole staff needs to go or the assistants need to be gone. Either way, if this entire staff is back next year, it's gonna get ugly. There is something to be said for consistency on a staff and as good a guys as all three are, the bottom line is this is business and someone is ultimately responsible. It's not always fair and at who gets canned but yesterdays meltdown and ensuing inability on the PP cannot be overlooked anymore.

4) If this were a Ron Wilson coached team, do you think he would've gone to the media and been so politically correct in his assessment of the Hossa infraction? He didn't keep his mouth shut when we played them here and the calls were much more innocent than what happened. When analysts go on national TV and berate the refs for not throwing Hossa out of the game, why does Trotz go to the media and say he trusts the NHL will do the right thing. Like that gets you anywhere in this league. The league wants the big market teams to succeed as they are the money makers. Do you really think they're gonna suspend Hossa after those sorts of remarks? He needs to be pressing the issue in the media, risk a suspension if necessary but please don't be so passe in your response to what happened to Hamhuis. Condone the action and just because Hamhuis didn't get hurt as bad as Campbell did, it doesn't make Hossa's actions any less worthy of a suspension. I don't think Hossa's a dirty player but this is the second time one of our guys has been leveled into the boards and one received a 2 min minor for a face plant on Klein and this only received a 5 min major. Stand up for your freaking players Barry. If you had something about the Kopecky hit and the lack of penalty minutes that were received, maybe the Hossa hit actually gets him thrown out.

In closing, I have been ok with the job Trotz did this year. He salvaged the team from a horrendous start to the season but the special teams were never fixed during the course of the year which is a coaching issue. The slow start once again this year, was a coaching issue. The inability to see that Hamhuis and Klein are not a good pairing on the ice is a coaching issue. While he is a big reason we got to where we are, there are too many consistencies over the years that warrant change. I would love to see Trotz get over the hump and get this team to the second round and if he does it this year, it will be one heck of a job. We should be playing Monday night to clinch the series but instead, we are playing to survive. We have never won a game facing elimination. Maybe there will be a first for that one tomorrow night. I still believe in this team but I just don't believe that the staff as we know it right now is the right group of guys for the job anymore.

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04-25-2010, 11:50 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
It's kinda hard to have a power play when 50% of the powerplay is sitting on the bench.
True, but I mean we are 0 for 21 now I believe. The regular guys weren't cutting it.

We need a gamebreaker!

Rick Nash!!

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04-25-2010, 11:53 AM
  #74
Milly79
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I was so enraged after yesterday's loss for so many reasons.

1) Watching a friends house on dish and having no option to watch the game on another channel because of WSMV's incompetence to cover a playoff game. If that were the Titans that game would've surely been on. I'd write a letter to the Tennessean but that would be moot as well. Now that I've got that off my chest onto the bigger pressing issues.
I completely agree with this. Luckily, I was able to switch to that channel, only for them to black it out and force me to return to the little square. The storm was in West TN (sorry to any westerners), and it wasn't going to be here for a while. WHO CARES? I'm sure they have their own stations.

Good job, WSMV.

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04-25-2010, 11:53 AM
  #75
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
It's kinda hard to have a power play when 50% of the powerplay is sitting on the bench.
And putting out the same units game after game when it's not working is the old square peg in round hole conundrum. We may or may not have the players to get it done but replacing Franson with Grebs is not what the team needed to have happen.

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