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Fire Trotz, Tonight!!!

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Old
04-25-2010, 12:54 PM
  #76
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by Milly79 View Post
I completely agree with this. Luckily, I was able to switch to that channel, only for them to black it out and force me to return to the little square. The storm was in West TN (sorry to any westerners), and it wasn't going to be here for a while. WHO CARES? I'm sure they have their own stations.

Good job, WSMV.
And to top this off, soon as the storm was about to hit Nashville, they went back to their regularly scheduled programming at around 7pm.

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04-25-2010, 12:54 PM
  #77
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to be honest, I don't see ANY solution that's not named Hornqvist.

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04-25-2010, 12:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
PLEASE READ THIS REPLY EVERYONE, I FEEL VERY REALISTIC



I hear that! Woke up this mornin still raging!

If we lose monday especially, I hope Poile really truly realizes something must be done.

We can afford a guy like Kovalchuk! or Nash!

BUT!

The only way we can have a marquee forward of superstar caliber is if we get rid of guys like Dumont, Arnott and Sully.

Dumont - $4 million a season
Sullivan - $3.8 million a season
Captain no show (arnott) - $4.5 million a season


Even Erat makes just over $5 million a season! and Legwand gets $5 mill!

I am not going to complain to much about playoff performance from Erat and Legwand, especially Legwand who has easily been our best player. Just not during regular season.

Now say we ship out the first three (who are also the three oldest of the 5 mentioned), That saves us $12.3 million a season!!!!

So now we can $12.3 million to play with,


Zetterberg makes 7.4 mill
Ovechkin makes 9 mill
Crosby makes 9 mill
Datsyuk makes 6.7 mill
Nash makes 7 mill
Malkin makes 9 mill

Those are some of the top talents in the league and none make $12.3 million!!

So we ship out the above three, bring in a superstar forward, and then still have another 4-5 million to play with, without going above our current team wage (which seems to be highest ownership will go)

So say for example we get rid of Dumont, Arnott, and Sullivan

and bring in Rick Nash (7 million) and Ryan Getzlaf (5.2 million) We are still under budget 0.1 million bucks! and have way better team!!


Imagine that!!


Nash Getzlaf Hornqvist
Ward Legwand Erat
O'Reilly Wilson Boyd
Tootoo Goc Smithson


and we could have this forward lineup with the exact same payroll!

I am not saying Getzlaf would be drawn out of Anaheim, just using him as example. but Rick Nash may be heading to UFA, which Nashville better dip into this season or many pred fans will be raging!


Just convince some preds to waive their NMC!

Teams would trade young talent for Dumont, Sully, and Arnott. Our lines may even look better than above if we can sign star free agent and wheel and deal abit. Money should not be the problem!


What do you all think??


BTW, keep trotz, fire horacek. Just imagine Barry coaching with some real talent on offense.


Anybody agree with this??

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04-25-2010, 12:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Anybody agree with this??
Just one question, how do we acquire Getzlaf and/or Nash?

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04-25-2010, 12:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
I am not saying Getzlaf would be drawn out of Anaheim, just using him as example. but Rick Nash may be heading to UFA, which Nashville better dip into this season or many pred fans will be raging!
1) Nash won't be an UFA anytime soon, he is under contract till 2018.

2) Most star-players aren't available at all. Elite UFAs aren't easy to get, and those who are not UFAs are almost impossible to get. If you want to trade for one, you usually need to overpay. The only thing you achieve that way is closing one hole by opening another.

3) You can't just get rid of players, they don't dissipate into air. You try to trade them, you get salary back, or you have to sweaten the pot by a lot, which means you lose the chance to draft high-end talent. Neither is really an option, especially if you consider that you may end up with not getting the star you want, thus being worse off than before.

4) Nashville isn't really a team that can throw a ridiculous contract at a player, so good luck trying to get a star free agent to sign. The really elite free agents are highly sought after and there are usually teams with the cap space and a crazy enough GM to offer a contract that goes way beyong the market-price.


Chicago is one of the top-teams in the league, they were easily the favorite in the series, yet Nashville put up a great fight so far, without their best goalscorer to boot. If anything the Predators far exceeded expectations this year.

Looking at bringing in talent is never wrong, but this "lets tear this core apart and try something else" is a recipe for desaster, it rarely works.

Unless you like a few years at the bottom of the league, the best way to improve is to make minor changes. Identify a weakness and try to fix it. A big splash may look nice, but it's not always the best move. A small change can change things entirely, if it is done right.

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04-25-2010, 12:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
to be honest, I don't see ANY solution that's not named Hornqvist.
And that's part of the problem. If you have two guys with cannons like Weber and Arnott and you're only other option is Hornqvist, we either don't have enough talent OR we don't have a staff that can get creative enough with the talent that we do have. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again.

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04-25-2010, 01:09 PM
  #82
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I didn't mind Erat out there, Ward and Arnott on the other hand can't carry a puck 5 feet and aren't great backcheckers.

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04-25-2010, 01:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Milly79 View Post
I'm not down for firing Trotz.

Erat, Dumont, Sullivan, Arnott need to go. I don't care how much you love them, but they are not what we need.

Erat makes too many damn mistakes and kills the entire mojo. Tries to play keep-a-way too damn much with all those spins, then eventually loses the puck or makes a blind pass onto an opposing players stick. He has a knack for scoring big goals, but is that really helpful? Sure, we need OF, but if you're the cause of a lot of miscues, GTFO.

We all know the story on the Sully, Arnott, Dumont. Their time is up, I believe.
I believe Arnott's time is up, and I'll agree that Dumont/Sullivan didn't bring it during the regular season. I'm not a huge fan of Erat's contract, but the guy did put up 49 points this season. That's only one shy of last season and only eight shy of both 2006-2007 and 2007-2008. He tries to do too much when entering the offensive zone and he does make bad plays that create turnovers, but he's also defensively responsible and has the ability to turn his game up. I have no problem with Erat being on the team. I do have a problem with his consistency.

Sullivan has been playing like a beast this last week, and Dumont has looked like he's shaken the Burrows hit from last season.

My question has two parts. How do we get rid of them and who do we get to replace them?

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04-25-2010, 01:17 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Sanderson View Post
1) Nash won't be an UFA anytime soon, he is under contract till 2018.

2) Most star-players aren't available at all. Elite UFAs aren't easy to get, and those who are not UFAs are almost impossible to get. If you want to trade for one, you usually need to overpay. The only thing you achieve that way is closing one hole by opening another.

3) You can't just get rid of players, they don't dissipate into air. You try to trade them, you get salary back, or you have to sweaten the pot by a lot, which means you lose the chance to draft high-end talent. Neither is really an option, especially if you consider that you may end up with not getting the star you want, thus being worse off than before.

4) Nashville isn't really a team that can throw a ridiculous contract at a player, so good luck trying to get a star free agent to sign. The really elite free agents are highly sought after and there are usually teams with the cap space and a crazy enough GM to offer a contract that goes way beyong the market-price.


Chicago is one of the top-teams in the league, they were easily the favorite in the series, yet Nashville put up a great fight so far, without their best goalscorer to boot. If anything the Predators far exceeded expectations this year.

Looking at bringing in talent is never wrong, but this "lets tear this core apart and try something else" is a recipe for desaster, it rarely works.

Unless you like a few years at the bottom of the league, the best way to improve is to make minor changes. Identify a weakness and try to fix it. A big splash may look nice, but it's not always the best move. A small change can change things entirely, if it is done right.

I was thinking something along the lines of what the leafs did to get Dion Phaneuf.

They traded Hagman, Stajan, Mayers, and White for Phaneuf.


I used some big names as examples, but I mean if we could trade a package of our guys to a team in need of some top 2 line depth, that would be great wouldn't it?


We could trade a few good players for one great players and a pick or something. Deals can be made if enough effort is put in.

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04-25-2010, 01:18 PM
  #85
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What do you think Kovalchuk will want as a UFA??

Say he wants $7 million,


We could trade Arnott or Sully for a draft pick to free up some room easily. Do they both have a NMC???

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04-25-2010, 01:22 PM
  #86
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Sullivan and Arnott both have NMCs in their contracts. Having ideas is fine guys, but let's at least look into them a bit before throwing them out there.

We aren't getting Kovie.

Also, we probably shouldn't be looking at Toronto as inspiration for how to build a team via trades or free agency. Dion Phaneuf played 26 games with Toronto. He finished we 10 points, which isn't bad. What else did he bring? What did Kessel do for them? Boston will enjoy a relatively high draft pick this year with the very real possibility of doing the same next. Toronto has been playing golf for ten days now.

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04-25-2010, 01:24 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Sullivan and Arnott both have NMCs in their contracts. Having ideas is fine guys, but let's at least look into them a bit before throwing them out there.

We aren't getting Kovie.
Yeah, I guess your right

Well I hope Poile is able to do something in the offseason.

No chance of Arny or Sully or Dumont waiving their NMC??


I hear that Frolov may be a UFA, could we afford him?

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04-25-2010, 01:26 PM
  #88
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Arnott is a worthless no one would want him, same with Dumont. Sully atleast looks like he cares.

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04-25-2010, 02:31 PM
  #89
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Sather would take Arnott.

If I was Poile

0. Fire Horachek

1. Here's the deal. Arnott has had too many concussions in far too short of a time span. If I was a team doctor, I would tell him to retire. Go home Arnott. Go home to your beautiful wife and kids.
If he doesn't retire, trade him to a contender. Jason Arnott would not be on my roster next year no matter what.

2. Dumont is allowed to stay. If he doesn't want to, trade him.

3. Steve Sullivan named team captain.

4. Money saved from Arnott is used to actively and aggressively court Tomas Plekanec, Matthew Lombardi, Colby Armstrong or Lee Stempniak.

5. I would trade up in the draft into the top ten in order to get a real prospect. Any prospect except Blum, Wilson, Franson, and Picard are in play.

6. Trade Grebs rights (or resign)

7. Draft a big winger.

8. Resign Hornqvist

9. Trade Boyd's rights

10. Resign cube

your 2010 Predators

Erat/Wilson/Stempniak
Sullivan/Goc/Hornqvist
Dumont/Legwand/Ward
Tootoo/Smithson/Spaling

Weber Suter
Klein Cube
Franson/Blum Grebs

Rinne
someone.


Last edited by Roman Yoshi: 04-25-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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04-25-2010, 02:34 PM
  #90
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Sather would take Arnott.

If I was Poile

1. Here's the deal. Arnott has had too many concussions in far too short of a time span. If I was a team doctor, I would tell him to retire. Go home Arnott. Go home to your beautiful wife and kids.
If he doesn't retire, trade him to a contender. Jason Arnott would not be on my roster next year no matter what.

2. Dumont is allowed to stay. If he doesn't want to, trade him.

3. Steve Sullivan named team captain.

4. Money saved from Arnott is used to actively and aggressively court Tomas Plekanec, Matthew Lombardi, Colby Armstrong or Lee Stempniak.

5. I would trade up in the draft into the top ten in order to get a real prospect. Any prospect except Blum, Wilson, Franson, and Picard are in play.

6. Trade Grebs rights.

7. Draft a big winger.

8. Resign Hornqvist
Poile is not going to trade Arnott, they're bed buddies, no one is going to take Grebs, I disagree with # 8 (we have to wait another year to see if he can stay healthy an entire year)

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04-25-2010, 02:38 PM
  #91
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Poile is not going to trade Arnott, they're bed buddies, no one is going to take Grebs, I disagree with # 8 (we have to wait another year to see if he can stay healthy an entire year)
Too bad his contract is up. Do you want him to walk?

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04-25-2010, 02:48 PM
  #92
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Too bad his contract is up. Do you want him to walk?
oops ...

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04-25-2010, 02:51 PM
  #93
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Too bad his contract is up. Do you want him to walk?
I like Arnott, but I wonder if the head ringers have taken it out of him. He used to be able to raise his game once in awhile. But he looks lost out there at times, and as if his skills have eroded. He hasn't brought some of the "angry Arnott" play I was sure we'd see in the series. Can't see what the Preds can do if he insists he's ok and wants to earn another big paycheck next year.

Yes, re-sign Horny.

What are the rights to negotiate with Grebs worth, a bag of pucks? Maybe his contract isn't out of line for teams with more money, which could make him worth a sign and trade. Or make his rights worth something. I really like him as a player, but I doubt at 3.x million he's in the Preds plans.

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04-25-2010, 02:57 PM
  #94
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I like Arnott, but I wonder if the head ringers have taken it out of him. He used to be able to raise his game once in awhile. But he looks lost out there at times, and as if his skills have eroded. He hasn't brought some of the "angry Arnott" play I was sure we'd see in the series. Can't see what the Preds can do if he insists he's ok and wants to earn another big paycheck next year.

Yes, re-sign Horny.

What are the rights to negotiate with Grebs worth, a bag of pucks? Maybe his contract isn't out of line for teams with more money, which could make him worth a sign and trade. Or make his rights worth something.
Right. I honestly don't expect Arnott back next year. Too many concussions. And if he does decide to come back, I would ask him to give me a list of teams.

A sign and trade with Grebs is probably worth a 3rd or 4th round pick due to the fact he is a GREAT power play specialist.

The way I see it, Poile needs to move up in the draft in order to get some real talent by trading one of his prized blue chips. I think he should swallow his pride and realize that is what needs to happen.

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04-25-2010, 03:07 PM
  #95
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This is almost comical. Fire the guys that took a bunch of 2nd and 3rd line players and make them a playoff team. A 100 point team. Our power play sucks because we don't have anyone to play on it. We have 2 plays available, not because of coaching, but becasue of players. Weber from the blueline, Arnott from the dot. Horny in the middle to clean up. While those are good options, when it's all you got it's easy to defend. But it's what got us here, both in the past season getting us 100 points and in the loss yesterday by not being able to come through when needed. You have to put out the best players you have in that situation. Who would you want out there, Smithson and Tootoo. Erat made the same mistake that Chicago made when we got our shorty. Both had bad outcomes. Changed momentum drastically, allowed us to come back, allowed them to eventually win it. Guess Chicago should fire their coaching staff as well.
Bottom line to this is they are a better team then we are. That cannot be disputed. Doesn't mean we don't have a chance to beat them, we've proven that. Their talent was more then our heart at the right time yesterday. While I don't like the outcome, I'm still proud to be a Preds fan and I will be there Monday making sure that my team knows that.
Jay, I totally get this, and if I had the in depth understanding of the game that many others like you do, I could probably process this a lot better.

The "fire trotz" argument can be cut apart and broken down and shown to be undeserved with logic, I will freely admit. And if you and everyone else will recall I have almost always cited reasoning like yours to support trotz in the past.

What I am trying to vocalize is something more visceral, and even though it isnt logical, or reasonable, it is nonetheless a real concern that needs to be addressed by the team.

Specifically, what I am all about is the basic premise that the Preds have asked all of us fans to buy into: "Stick with us, and we'll give you a competitive team, that will eventually upset someone in the playoffs and give you a tremendous thrill"

You can argue that point if you want but boiled down to its essence, thats what we as Preds fans sign on for... the promise of not sucking and the chance for an occasional exceptional outcome.

They have done a very good job of delivering on the first part. The Preds havent had a true stinker of a season, ever.

The problem is, not everyone can find satisfaction in meeting or slightly exceeding expectations year after year after year. I suspect a significant portion of the fan base is like me... I have been a true, hard core fan, through the lockout, through the sale, and right on until now... and I am still a HUGE fan, but even I have my breaking point. I think the lack of a sellout tuesday and again tomorrow (if indeed we dont sell out) is a decent indication that a lot of other people think like I do.

Fair or not, we are all humans, and I have reached a point where I want something different. I will take the chance that it will be worse, in exchange for the hope that it will be better.

In reflection, it doesnt have to be Trotz that goes. It can be a change in the roster. Heck I'd probably even be satisfied with just a new assistant or two. But for heavens sake just give me SOMETHING that I can look at and convince myself that next year will be different. I have already put down my deposit for next years tickets, so I'm not abandoning this team... but if they dont come back and win this series, and they dont change something this summer, why should I be enthused about next season?


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04-25-2010, 04:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Jay, I totally get this, and if I had the in depth understanding of the game that many others like you do, I could probably process this a lot better.

The "fire trotz" argument can be cut apart and broken down and shown to be undeserved with logic, I will freely admit. And if you and everyone else will recall I have almost always cited reasoning like yours to support trotz in the past.

What I am trying to vocalize is something more visceral, and even though it isnt logical, or reasonable, it is nonetheless a real concern that needs to be addressed by the team.

Specifically, what I am all about is the basic premise that the Preds have asked all of us fans to buy into: "Stick with us, and we'll give you a competitive team, that will eventually upset someone in the playoffs and give you a tremendous thrill"

You can argue that point if you want but boiled down to its essence, thats what we as Preds fans sign on for... the promise of not sucking and the chance for an occasional exceptional outcome.

They have done a very good job of delivering on the first part. The Preds havent had a true stinker of a season, ever.

The problem is, not everyone can find satisfaction in meeting or slightly exceeding expectations year after year after year. I suspect a significant portion of the fan base is like me... I have been a true, hard core fan, through the lockout, through the sale, and right on until now... and I am still a HUGE fan, but even I have my breaking point. I think the lack of a sellout tuesday and again tomorrow (if indeed we dont sell out) is a decent indication that a lot of other people think like I do.

Fair or not, we are all humans, and I have reached a point where I want something different. I will take the chance that it will be worse, in exchange for the hope that it will be better.

In reflection, it doesnt have to be Trotz that goes. It can be a change in the roster. Heck I'd probably even be satisfied with just a new assistant or two. But for heavens sake just give me SOMETHING that I can look at and convince myself that next year will be different. I have already put down my deposit for next years tickets, so I'm not abandoning this team... but if they dont come back and win this series, and they dont change something this summer, why should I be enthused about next season?
Preds are always going to be in tough with their self imposed cap. They need to make a run in the playoffs soon to convince their top young players to re-sign with the team when they hit UFA status. But, when you compare the Preds to other teams in the southern markets, like Carolina and TB, those 2 teams have managed to retain their top end talent like Staal, Ward, Lecavalier, St. Louis because they had some success in the post season. Conversely, the likes of Atlanta, Florida, Phoenix, etc. haven't lately and so they tend to lose their top end guys like Hossa, Kovalchuk, Bouwmeester, (phx hasn't had a top end talent in a while).

Nashville makes the post season, but haven't been able to win a round. Sooner or later that is going to catch up to them when their top talent (mainly their blueliners) are up for UFA. Hamhuis is UFA this summer and is likely to move onto another organization.

Then you have Suter and Weber. Suter is a UFA when his deal expires in 2012. Weber has 1 more year left and would be a RFA. Arbitration is a likley resolution for him in 2011 so he can see what the future holds in Nashville.

The franchise has to be able to convince these players that the team can compete for the big prize otherwise, it will be the same thing for them each season with the Preds. Just qualify and if you're on a roll, you could upset someone. Ideally, they'd like to see the franchise make a commitment and say, we think we're good enough that we can advance past a round or 2 and are willing to gamble by spending more, in the hopes that we can re-coup that investment with 4-6 or 8-11 home playoff games, rather than just 2-3 home playoff games.

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04-25-2010, 04:22 PM
  #97
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Nobody is more frustrated then I am. But there are hockey cities out there that would be excited to have the seasons we've had in the past 6 years. You can be angry about the loss, I am. But I'm hearing people give up on the team. Be angry, but be there Monday supporting the team. If you give up, then the team is gone. We have some really bright young players that I'm excited to see in the next 3 or 4 years. But I want them to be playing in the big building on Broadway, not some other city. This team has fought very hard to stay in Nashville the past couple of year, we have to stay with them. I have no regrets spending the money I have for this team. There have been highs, there have been lows but especially in the NHL, that's what being a fan is about.

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04-25-2010, 04:31 PM
  #98
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What about bringing in Christopher Higgins? I know he was awful this year but a guy that was putting up 20 goals consistently can't fall off that far... can he?

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04-25-2010, 04:49 PM
  #99
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You know, Trotz has shown more creative coaching this year, imo, than any other year. I never thought he'd break up the SAD line, yet he did, and look where we are...

Yes, the pp sucks...........but I'll be there on Monday. Wouldn't miss it.

We're fans, we need to bring it.....cause it's our team.

Hey, I'm a Vandy fan............you just keep trudging forward and never give up.

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04-25-2010, 05:25 PM
  #100
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Nobody is more frustrated then I am. But there are hockey cities out there that would be excited to have the seasons we've had in the past 6 years. You can be angry about the loss, I am. But I'm hearing people give up on the team. Be angry, but be there Monday supporting the team. If you give up, then the team is gone. We have some really bright young players that I'm excited to see in the next 3 or 4 years. But I want them to be playing in the big building on Broadway, not some other city. This team has fought very hard to stay in Nashville the past couple of year, we have to stay with them. I have no regrets spending the money I have for this team. There have been highs, there have been lows but especially in the NHL, that's what being a fan is about.
You being a coach is why I ask you this question, would you have strategized the way we did in the last minute of play yesterday? I've stated my opinion on this and the use of the entire ice as opposed to just trying to keep the puck in the offensive zone. Yes, Erat had a major brain fart in making the pass he did but why not use the entire ice to play keep away? We didn't have to score, we had no reason to shoot the puck, control the puck and use the ice surface and let them chase the puck. Teams do that to us when they're on the PK against us and it works, so why not do it with a man up, less than a minute to play and a one goal lead? I'm not a coach, never have been but that was my first thought when the penalty was called on Hossa. I'm interested in your take.

By the way, I'll be there tomorrow yelling and screaming and supporting our guys. I don't think the season or this series is over. We've dealt with other things this year at this level or worse and come out on top. I expect the same thing to happen tomorrow and Wednesday night.

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