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CBC Hotstove - Guy Boucher

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Old
04-25-2010, 03:22 PM
  #151
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Boucher

If we lose Boucher, I would be very disappointed. Going back to his Drummonville days and him being an assistant for the under 20 Candaian team, even than, they said he was going to be the next great NHL coach. Sad part, he would fit well with Tampa Bay. The Habs have to do everything in their power to retain him. Let him coach the Habs in 2 years. I am seriously tired of Jacques Martin but the reality is that he will coach the Habs for another year. I was extremely frustrated when they confirmed Pierre Gauthier as GM. If they could bring in new blood like Vincent Damphousse, Claude Lemieux, or Steve Yzerman.

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04-25-2010, 03:23 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I just think the habs are a team with an unique circumstance where they have to give chances to coach who can speak french and I'm pretty sure there are instances where some of the coaches we gave chances to wouldn't have gotten them otherwise. There are plenty of coaches with good junior and AHL resumes who never get a shot at the NHL. We really accelerate the process for any french speaking coaches.
Indeed.

But I sure hope they don't forget what the organization does for them.

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04-25-2010, 03:56 PM
  #153
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I just think the habs are a team with an unique circumstance where they have to give chances to coach who can speak french and I'm pretty sure there are instances where some of the coaches we gave chances to wouldn't have gotten them otherwise. There are plenty of coaches with good junior and AHL resumes who never get a shot at the NHL. We really accelerate the process for any french speaking coaches.

So how many Guy Boucher types out there?

If there are many qualified bilingual candidates we should not be worried to lose him.

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04-25-2010, 03:58 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by NHLfan View Post
If we lose Boucher, I would be very disappointed. Going back to his Drummonville days and him being an assistant for the under 20 Candaian team, even than, they said he was going to be the next great NHL coach. Sad part, he would fit well with Tampa Bay. The Habs have to do everything in their power to retain him. Let him coach the Habs in 2 years. I am seriously tired of Jacques Martin but the reality is that he will coach the Habs for another year. I was extremely frustrated when they confirmed Pierre Gauthier as GM. If they could bring in new blood like Vincent Damphousse, Claude Lemieux, or Steve Yzerman.
Really?

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04-25-2010, 04:05 PM
  #155
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So Lapierre can have someone who can understand his text messages? But in all seriousness, I don't think that's true at all. Bowman, Blake, and Irvin are probably the most successful coaches the team has ever had, and the track record of bilingual (or francophone) coaches since really hasn't been that good (in fact, they were almost all run out of town after their rookie coaching stints, and have become almost "untouchable" coaches elsewhere... would it have been different if they started out somewhere else THEN came to Montreal... like Martin?). A lot of that is on the GMs, players, etc over the years, but the discomfort and hassle the French media would have disseminating information from the coach should not be a meaningful concern, imo.

Seriously though, Vigneault, Therrien, Julien, and Carbonneau... all brought in as rookie coaches in Montreal, all run out of town, and all turned that experience into success wherever they went (Carbo to be determined). The track record suggests it might be smarter to try it the other way around, and again, I don't think the team should limit its options to bilingual coaches as long as everyone above him (as is pretty much the case now) is fully capable of speaking French.
I believe that while I would like to keep Boucher and that coaches are indeed important as far as direction of the team, system and so on, it has to be to a CERTAIN EXTENT. I mean most coaches that are nominated for the Adams trophy are either fired the same or the next year. But most importantly, the firing of a coach happens so that you're able to give some hope (most of the time false hope) that your team is about to turn it around.

Sorry but you would have had Bowman in charge of the 1999 team and we would not have made the playoffs. I mean he had a fine team (not extraordinairy but fine nonetheless) in Buffalo and what was he able to do? Not discrediting him but to say that as great a coach you are, and especially nowadays, you can do so much.

Then, since you can't fire 20 guys, you fire the coach, the GM's. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, most of our coaches ended up being more succesful elsewhere....true that experience plays....yet, I'd believe that the quality of our team versus the quality of the team they coached after were significantly different.

Carbonneau succeeded in bringing his team the furthest during his 2nd year. Yet was perceived as a total mess during his 3rd year....

I think that the need of bringing a french coach is just there. And it's there because it is. The Habs coach talks to the people more than the Prime Minister does. That organization felt the pressure when the "french" subject comes into play. As much as Pierre Boivin keep mentioning it everytime he speaks. Some said that Timmins and Co felt the pressure and had to make Leblanc their first choice because of it (I don't believe it but still it's out there...) etc. Does it mean that we're going to miss on Ruff or Babcock because of that? I sure hope we don't. Yet, chances are that they are not going the candidates available when it will be time to change. If so, well will see if and when it happens.

The funny part about all this is that when people keep saying that we might miss on great candidates because of that criteria, everytime there's a debate as to who we could be missing on, there's just no answer. Well, the Ruff and the Babcock comes back, yet those guys are not available.

I know that right now, I'd take a Boucher or a Groulx ahead of any available candidates. If you are really worried about the inexperience factor, I'd be sure that while the coach needs to have a say in it, that he'd be aware of the experienced assistants available out there.

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04-25-2010, 05:03 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I believe that while I would like to keep Boucher and that coaches are indeed important as far as direction of the team, system and so on, it has to be to a CERTAIN EXTENT. I mean most coaches that are nominated for the Adams trophy are either fired the same or the next year. But most importantly, the firing of a coach happens so that you're able to give some hope (most of the time false hope) that your team is about to turn it around.

Sorry but you would have had Bowman in charge of the 1999 team and we would not have made the playoffs. I mean he had a fine team (not extraordinairy but fine nonetheless) in Buffalo and what was he able to do? Not discrediting him but to say that as great a coach you are, and especially nowadays, you can do so much.

Then, since you can't fire 20 guys, you fire the coach, the GM's. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, most of our coaches ended up being more succesful elsewhere....true that experience plays....yet, I'd believe that the quality of our team versus the quality of the team they coached after were significantly different.

Carbonneau succeeded in bringing his team the furthest during his 2nd year. Yet was perceived as a total mess during his 3rd year....

I think that the need of bringing a french coach is just there. And it's there because it is. The Habs coach talks to the people more than the Prime Minister does. That organization felt the pressure when the "french" subject comes into play. As much as Pierre Boivin keep mentioning it everytime he speaks. Some said that Timmins and Co felt the pressure and had to make Leblanc their first choice because of it (I don't believe it but still it's out there...) etc. Does it mean that we're going to miss on Ruff or Babcock because of that? I sure hope we don't. Yet, chances are that they are not going the candidates available when it will be time to change. If so, well will see if and when it happens.

The funny part about all this is that when people keep saying that we might miss on great candidates because of that criteria, everytime there's a debate as to who we could be missing on, there's just no answer. Well, the Ruff and the Babcock comes back, yet those guys are not available.

I know that right now, I'd take a Boucher or a Groulx ahead of any available candidates. If you are really worried about the inexperience factor, I'd be sure that while the coach needs to have a say in it, that he'd be aware of the experienced assistants available out there.
Boucher would probably bring along Raymond, and leave the Dogs to Lacroix or someone else.

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Old
04-25-2010, 05:33 PM
  #157
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Couldn't Boucher get the ass. coach gig as soon as next year?

What do you think?

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04-25-2010, 05:34 PM
  #158
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He could.
But is one year as a professional level head coach enough for a future NHL coach?

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04-25-2010, 05:35 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Pr3Va1L View Post
What do you think?
He could. But my little finger tells me he'll simply stay where he is for another season.

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04-25-2010, 05:35 PM
  #160
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I have to admit it, it took me about 10 seconds to understand the title because of the abreviation.

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04-25-2010, 05:38 PM
  #161
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Why not use the existing threads? This is pretty much derived from that so why litter with more GB topics? I know I'm almost sick of reading an article every 2 weeks how we might/might not lose him.

If the Montreal Canadiens let this Guy slip away I know I won't forgive them, probably ever. That has to factor into the decisionmaking of our managment, no?

I hope

And yes, we can make Boucher the assistant coach next year, why not? But who do we get rid of to make room...

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04-25-2010, 05:48 PM
  #162
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The Canucks have had their own "hot coaching commodity" in Scott Arneil coaching the Manitoba Moose. There were rumors a couple seasons ago that he was an NHL candidate but the Canucks refused to let him interview since he was under contract. It was also part of an assumed strategy that they didn't have faith in Vigneault and Arneil would be his replacement. Well, I think Arneil's contract is now up and, its doubtfull Viggy will get fired (unless they choke against LA and beyond) so they are stuck in either trying to sign Arneil as an assistant with the Canucks or risk losing him. It's more likely the latter will happen. So, The Habs need to balance what's best for the organization - like, finally, having someone that is interested and be successful with player development - or let him apprentice at the NHL as an assistant with the Habs. If this is the case, I think, like a lot of players under JM, this would only stunt his growth.

Interesting considerations at play. I think though, that this is really just a tempest in a tea pot that the hotstoved bubbled up for no apparent reason other than somebody trying to throw something out hoping for a blind scoop.

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04-25-2010, 05:49 PM
  #163
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That's an interesting kind of coach, I don't think the players will be too excited

Dude, pick a less hilarious title, please

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04-25-2010, 06:33 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I believe that while I would like to keep Boucher and that coaches are indeed important as far as direction of the team, system and so on, it has to be to a CERTAIN EXTENT. I mean most coaches that are nominated for the Adams trophy are either fired the same or the next year. But most importantly, the firing of a coach happens so that you're able to give some hope (most of the time false hope) that your team is about to turn it around.

Sorry but you would have had Bowman in charge of the 1999 team and we would not have made the playoffs. I mean he had a fine team (not extraordinairy but fine nonetheless) in Buffalo and what was he able to do? Not discrediting him but to say that as great a coach you are, and especially nowadays, you can do so much.

Then, since you can't fire 20 guys, you fire the coach, the GM's. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, most of our coaches ended up being more succesful elsewhere....true that experience plays....yet, I'd believe that the quality of our team versus the quality of the team they coached after were significantly different.

Carbonneau succeeded in bringing his team the furthest during his 2nd year. Yet was perceived as a total mess during his 3rd year....

I think that the need of bringing a french coach is just there. And it's there because it is. The Habs coach talks to the people more than the Prime Minister does. That organization felt the pressure when the "french" subject comes into play. As much as Pierre Boivin keep mentioning it everytime he speaks. Some said that Timmins and Co felt the pressure and had to make Leblanc their first choice because of it (I don't believe it but still it's out there...) etc. Does it mean that we're going to miss on Ruff or Babcock because of that? I sure hope we don't. Yet, chances are that they are not going the candidates available when it will be time to change. If so, well will see if and when it happens.

The funny part about all this is that when people keep saying that we might miss on great candidates because of that criteria, everytime there's a debate as to who we could be missing on, there's just no answer. Well, the Ruff and the Babcock comes back, yet those guys are not available.

I know that right now, I'd take a Boucher or a Groulx ahead of any available candidates. If you are really worried about the inexperience factor, I'd be sure that while the coach needs to have a say in it, that he'd be aware of the experienced assistants available out there.
Before getting to the bolded point, I think you're taking me the wrong way. I'm not worried about his inexperience possibly contributing to any struggles of the team, or whatever. I'm saying that as a coach who hasn't established himself in the NHL, if there ARE any struggles, it's entirely likely that he becomes the sacrificial lamb.

Which brings me to the bolded point. If he (unfortunately) decided to go somewhere else and get his feet wet at the helm of an NHL club, and then come back, he'd be less likely to be the victim of the "quick fix" and likely never be welcomed back in that role (how many coaches have ever been let go, and then came back to that organization later down the road?)

I'm not saying let him go. I'm saying it wouldn't be the end of the world, and his chances of sticking around for a while if he ever came back would probably be better. After all, when he's "ready," I'm sure PG would invite him back, and if he wanted to come the GM of that team probably wouldn't stand in the way at the end of his contract. I don't think he's leaving the organization for at least a year or two though, so we'll see how things look (especially with JM) then.

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04-25-2010, 06:37 PM
  #165
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I am not the biggest JM fan, but one year for a coach of his caliber is not a fair shake.

Look at it this way, if I am Boucher and I see an organization willing to toss away a guy with that kind of reputation for the new shiny kid on the block, I don't take the job. That isn't the kind of organization you commit to.
You're making way too much sense! So many posters here have either never held a real job and don't understand the importance of feeling valued and secure; or, they think everything is like NHL 2010 and you can make any move you want without and morale effects.

JM will be coach of the Habs next year. He got us into the playoffs despite an insane number of key injuries and a totally revamped roster, and now we're holding our own in a playoff series against the NHL's top team.

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04-25-2010, 07:07 PM
  #166
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Boucher would probably bring along Raymond, and leave the Dogs to Lacroix or someone else.
Actually, I'd love to see Raymond handle the Dogs and if Boucher want somebody, might as well bring the guy with some NHL experience in Lacroix....but your pick is as good as mine. Also possible that in the case of the scenario you're talking about, we actually might see Pascal Vincent who was considered before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Before getting to the bolded point, I think you're taking me the wrong way. I'm not worried about his inexperience possibly contributing to any struggles of the team, or whatever. I'm saying that as a coach who hasn't established himself in the NHL, if there ARE any struggles, it's entirely likely that he becomes the sacrificial lamb.

Which brings me to the bolded point. If he (unfortunately) decided to go somewhere else and get his feet wet at the helm of an NHL club, and then come back, he'd be less likely to be the victim of the "quick fix" and likely never be welcomed back in that role (how many coaches have ever been let go, and then came back to that organization later down the road?)

I'm not saying let him go. I'm saying it wouldn't be the end of the world, and his chances of sticking around for a while if he ever came back would probably be better. After all, when he's "ready," I'm sure PG would invite him back, and if he wanted to come the GM of that team probably wouldn't stand in the way at the end of his contract. I don't think he's leaving the organization for at least a year or two though, so we'll see how things look (especially with JM) then.
Fine post. Though, and it could go either way, do you have more chances to keep a guy in an organization by not letting him go than to let him go and wish to have a spot, or wish he's not attractive to others so you'd have him back.

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04-25-2010, 07:28 PM
  #167
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Was there ANY reason to sign JM for 3 years? What a stupid move among a multitute of stupid moves.

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04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
  #168
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Was there ANY reason to sign JM for 3 years? What a stupid move among a multitute of stupid moves.
Rarely will an experienced NHL coach move from one team to another for only
a 1 year contract.

My guess...........Martin goes back a long way with Pierre Gauthier (Ottowa) and I am convinced that Gainey hired Martin on Gauthier's recommendations - you know, the same Gauthier who gave up a 2nd round draft choice for a decent but undersized 3rd/4th line player!

Considering their relationship, I expect to see Gauthier stick with Martin and let Guy Boucher (possibly) sign on with another NHL team!

Enough said!



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04-25-2010, 07:38 PM
  #169
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Was there ANY reason to sign JM for 3 years? What a stupid move among a multitute of stupid moves.
You should think before you post.

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04-25-2010, 08:02 PM
  #170
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Was there ANY reason to sign JM for 3 years? What a stupid move among a multitute of stupid moves.
How do you know he would have accepted a shorter contract?

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04-25-2010, 08:06 PM
  #171
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Considering their relationship, I expect to see Gauthier stick with Martin and let Guy Boucher (possibly) sign on with another NHL team!

Enough said!


... or, say, Martin stays for 2-3 years, which is conveniently a reasonable period for Boucher to get experience in the pro, thus allowing a smooth transition for him to the NHL.

But noooo, why think of the perfectly sensible and reasonable scenario when you can have drama instead

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04-25-2010, 09:09 PM
  #172
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I'll be really surprised to see Boucher change teams next year.
He's the man of the hour in AHL for now, but he's been there for a year only.
He seems like a smart man that puts a lot of importance on experience. So, I'm sure he wants to gain some more before making the jump. He's also very well aware of the situation in Mtl and if he's as good as he is, whether he waits another year or two, he'll get his chance in the NHL.

Boucher, Bulldogs, next year.

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04-25-2010, 09:15 PM
  #173
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I'll be really surprised to see Boucher change teams next year.
He's the man of the hour in AHL for now, but he's been there for a year only.
He seems like a smart man that puts a lot of importance on experience. So, I'm sure he wants to gain some more before making the jump. He's also very well aware of the situation in Mtl and if he's as good as he is, whether he waits another year or two, he'll get his chance in the NHL.

Boucher, Bulldogs, next year.
Peter DeBoer never stepped foot inside the AHL, OHL only and made the leap. it isn't like Boucher has never coached, and that his resume is only one year.

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04-25-2010, 09:55 PM
  #174
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Agreed.......

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Originally Posted by HarryI View Post
Bring Guy as assistant next year and promise him the job in the next 2 years. We can't lose this guy.
WE cannot afford to lose this guy ......he is our next coach and I see Martin going upstairs (this year, or next - with contingencies to Boucher!!)

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04-25-2010, 10:19 PM
  #175
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As much as I like Boucher..........
What has he really proven?

If I recall correctly, it wasn't that long ago that Lever was pegged as the next one coming out of the AHL
Look how quick that turned on him.

If someone wants Boucher at this point, let him go, grats to him!!
You can't / shouldn't stand in his way.

As for the habs, bilingual coaches should be thrown out the window
Hire the best one for the job
Like to admit it or not, this is an english league, the coach has to speak english, every language after that is extra gravy

If you look at the list of coaches with the habs that have won multiple cups you get:
Cecil Hart; Dick Irvin; Toe Blake; Scotty Bowman (18 cups)

just my 2 cents

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