HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Notices

10/11 Avalanche Cap Numbers

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-23-2010, 07:10 PM
  #51
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 767
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
We still need the remaining cap for the future to sign Duchene - RoR and other players we'll have coming up.
I know people keep mentioning this but I can't ever see Duchene being more than a 6.5-7M player...And RoR maybe $3M max......That still leaves a LOT of room. Anderson's probably in line for about $3-$5....That's an increase of about $7-9M over our present day cap room.

I think the "we need to save room" statement is a little overblown at times....We do have room...I still doubt management spends it. But a $6-7M contract isn't going to put this team into financial and cap ruin.

Do I think the should go out and acquire a guy for 6-7M? Not on UFA....Wait for a trade.

Bonzai12 is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 07:27 PM
  #52
Golden Foppa
Registered User
 
Golden Foppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,489
vCash: 500
The Avs also have some big contracts like Hannan that come off the books before Duchene and O'Reilly need to be re-signed.

They can more than afford to take on a top tier free agent without screwing themselves, cap wise, down the road.

Golden Foppa is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:09 PM
  #53
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,836
vCash: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott76 View Post
I know people keep mentioning this but I can't ever see Duchene being more than a 6.5-7M player...And RoR maybe $3M max......That still leaves a LOT of room. Anderson's probably in line for about $3-$5....That's an increase of about $7-9M over our present day cap room.

Do I think the should go out and acquire a guy for 6-7M? Not on UFA....Wait for a trade.
Perhaps the roster is smaller than I imagined. Lets see!

10/11 salaries
Chris Stewart: 3.5
Peter Mueller: 2.5
Kyle Quiency: 3.0

That will put the Avs at 41M. At this point I’ll assume we’ll sign a UFA that will put us on the cap floor. Lets say 5M – 5 years max for this certain UFA, if it’s lower than that’ll be better later on. Max of 46 – 48M going into next season.

Now, 11/12 salaries we should have a cap space of 35M or so (according to my previous calculations and info from capgeek).

Galiardi: 2M
Stoa: 1.5M
Jones: 1.8M
Hannan: 3M (short term, 2 years or less contract)
Cumiskey: 1.5M
Wilson: 1M
Anderson: 4M (if he can repeat last year’s performance, may go as high as 5)
Budaj/Another NHL backup: 1M

The Avs will loose
Foote: - 1.25M
Duke: - 3M
Koci: -5K

Leaving the Avs to be around 42 – 43M; meeting the cap floor. The season after we’ll have to resign Duchene and RoR. As you’ve said:
[/B]

Duchene – 6.5
RoR – 3.5

That will put the Avs around 52 – 53 in cap roll and barring any increase or decrease in cap they’ll have about 6 – 7M of free space.
Obviously my numbers are all pure speculation and it may well go over or go under what I’ve wrote. I imagine under since I doubt we’ll sign any player this offseason to a 5M contract. Lets say we just sign some scrubs to meet the cap floor decreasing my total amount by 3M. This leaves anywhere from 6 – 10M if my numbers are correct. But if we account for the up and coming dmen that will make the roster in the coming future that will also decrease it back to around 6 - 7M again.

So I can safely assume that the Avs should have about that amount of cap space barring any major trades. This gives the Avs the ability to target either a ‘big name UFA’ or a major trade. I agree with you that it is overblow however it shouldn’t be overlooked.

From what you’ve said, it worries me. It understand the notion that we shouldn’t be overly cautious and make some risk moves but that doesn’t mean that we should sit back and ‘enjoy’ our current situation. I believe that if management makes the correct assessments they can keep the cap issues to a minimum that will help keep the team together. I don’t want to become the next CHI and see home grown talent leave. People too easily forget what cap hell this team was in the past seasons with their inability to sign fair short contract. Just don’t walk that path again, keep it young and address our weakness through UFA or trade.

chewey is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:10 PM
  #54
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 35,021
vCash: 645
Next year is most likely Hejduk's last year as well. That's another 3 million.

People are really worried about Duchene and O'Reilly's contract two years from now?

Avs_19 is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:18 PM
  #55
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 767
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
I'm not worried about them at all...especially RoR....Worry about Anderson before you worry about RoR..He's a third liner.

Bonzai12 is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:24 PM
  #56
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,836
vCash: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
People are really worried about Duchene and O'Reilly's contract two years from now?
Call it just me, but if I was running a franchise I'd be wary about how I handle future contracts given the teams history. Its not something to worry about now, but it is something that should be in consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scott76 View Post
I'm not worried about them at all...especially RoR....Worry about Anderson before you worry about RoR..He's a third liner.
Again, I don't see the same feelings. Previous to last season the Avs didn't exactly have a legit 3rd liner. Hell, if anything they had a black hole on the 3rd line! A player like RoR is rare, how many teams in the NHL do you legitimately see having a RoR type player? Just because he's a '3rd liner' shouldn't devalue his part of this team's core. He could easily be given a offer sheet in two seasons time as well.

Anyways, this is more 'food for thought' but as mentioned people are to quick to forget the past. If you don't learn from it, it'll come back and bite you in the ass.

chewey is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:29 PM
  #57
ABasin
Beer is good food
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Again, I don't see the same feelings. Previous to last season the Avs didn't exactly have a legit 3rd liner. Hell, if anything they had a black hole on the 3rd line! A player like RoR is rare, how many teams in the NHL do you legitimately see having a RoR type player?
A defensively responsible, 8 goal per year, relatively slow-skating 3rd line center? Those players can be had on just about every team, Dmitri.

A player with those attributes who is 19 years old? Well, not many. But, it all depends on his continued development. I hope he's working on his skating this offseason.

-AB

ABasin is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 08:41 PM
  #58
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,836
vCash: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
A defensively responsible, 8 goal per year, relatively slow-skating 3rd line center? Those players can be had on just about every team, Dmitri.

A player with those attributes who is 19 years old? Well, not many. But, it all depends on his continued development. I hope he's working on his skating this offseason.

-AB
Yep. Its the second part of your statement. I expect an improvement from a 19 year old from his first season. I don't expect him to lead the team in points but he does have 'intangibles'. Besides, this team has some past issues with 3rd line centers. Tho they can be had there are other 29 teams that will be bidding for them as well. Going into last season we didn't have a 3rd line center and would assume that would be met. Even in the past the team could have traded piratically nothing for one during time of injuries they didn't.

I don't know, personally I feel getting a 3rd liner is easier said than done for this organization.

chewey is offline  
Old
06-23-2010, 09:17 PM
  #59
PeterTheGreat
Registered User
 
PeterTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
A defensively responsible, 8 goal per year, relatively slow-skating 3rd line center? Those players can be had on just about every team, Dmitri.

A player with those attributes who is 19 years old? Well, not many. But, it all depends on his continued development. I hope he's working on his skating this offseason.

-AB
O'Reilly improved his skating a ton over the course of last season. He actually became average in the skating department IMO by the end of the year (he started out below average).

With his work ethic, and a full off season, I believe he'll come back stronger and faster next season.

I think the Avs are in a very good position cap wise even when Dutchy and O'Reilly need raises. By then, Hannan (4.5), Liles (4.2) and Hejduk (3) will all be off the books. Not to mention Foote after next year.

PeterTheGreat is offline  
Old
06-24-2010, 01:39 AM
  #60
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 767
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmitri View Post
Yep. Its the second part of your statement. I expect an improvement from a 19 year old from his first season. I don't expect him to lead the team in points but he does have 'intangibles'. Besides, this team has some past issues with 3rd line centers. Tho they can be had there are other 29 teams that will be bidding for them as well. Going into last season we didn't have a 3rd line center and would assume that would be met. Even in the past the team could have traded piratically nothing for one during time of injuries they didn't.

I don't know, personally I feel getting a 3rd liner is easier said than done for this organization.
If a team signed him to a $3M contract, they'd owe the Avs a first and a third. Not sure I'd want to give that up for O'Reilly unless he was at least going to play on the second line for my team. And if he could play on the second line for my team, chances are that the 1st would be a very nice position in the draft. I don't think there's a lot to worry about.

Bonzai12 is offline  
Old
06-24-2010, 01:54 AM
  #61
Huis Clos*
Creamy Hamstrings
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ballarado
Country: United States
Posts: 6,020
vCash: 500
Stay the course for another year or two. Patience.

Huis Clos* is offline  
Old
06-24-2010, 03:33 AM
  #62
shadow1
Registered User
 
shadow1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 11,263
vCash: 1210
Half of the guys on the roster aren't going to be around two years from now when Duchene and O'Reilly are RFA's, so I'd say it's going to be pretty hard to accurately speculate on the teams salary cap structure in the future. Teams landscapes can change drastically in the blink of an eye, especially with a young roster like Colorado's; last summer the Avs looked like they were locked into Ryan Smyth forever, and heading into this one it looked as though management would be forking up alot for Wojtek. Instead, Quincey and Mueller will likely make half of what said players will make cumulatively next season. The team also went from conservative defensively - but couldn't score a goal to save their lives - to a much more faced paced team that relied heavily on their goaltender to cover their defensive lapses.

Chicago's mistake two years ago was that they went nuts with contracts. It's one thing to add a high priced player to make a large contribution to your roster; it's another to invest over 15 million dollars per season in three players (Sopel, Campbell, Huet) who frankly hadn't proven squat, save for a good year or two each. And even through their atrocious mismanagement of salary, not only have they been able to get all of their key players signed long term, but won a Stanley Cup to boot.

Regardless of what happens, the Avalanche will be able to get their key players under contract. While I'm not saying they should necessarily go out and sign Marleau or Martin or Kovalchuk or player X, if the deal is right, what possible reason could there be not to sign them? Because David Jones or Brandon Yip may have to be let go? Who gives a crap?


Last edited by shadow1: 06-24-2010 at 03:44 AM.
shadow1 is offline  
Old
06-24-2010, 07:20 AM
  #63
ABasin
Beer is good food
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hekic42 View Post
Stay the course for another year or two. Patience.
Thank you. 3-4 year rebuild.

-AB

ABasin is offline  
Old
06-24-2010, 10:15 AM
  #64
hockeyfish
Registered User
 
hockeyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Back in the FoCo
Country: United States
Posts: 6,533
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow1 View Post
Half of the guys on the roster aren't going to be around two years from now when Duchene and O'Reilly are RFA's, so I'd say it's going to be pretty hard to accurately speculate on the teams salary cap structure in the future. Teams landscapes can change drastically in the blink of an eye, especially with a young roster like Colorado's; last summer the Avs looked like they were locked into Ryan Smyth forever, and heading into this one it looked as though management would be forking up alot for Wojtek. Instead, Quincey and Mueller will likely make half of what said players will make cumulatively next season. The team also went from conservative defensively - but couldn't score a goal to save their lives - to a much more faced paced team that relied heavily on their goaltender to cover their defensive lapses.

Chicago's mistake two years ago was that they went nuts with contracts. It's one thing to add a high priced player to make a large contribution to your roster; it's another to invest over 15 million dollars per season in three players (Sopel, Campbell, Huet) who frankly hadn't proven squat, save for a good year or two each. And even through their atrocious mismanagement of salary, not only have they been able to get all of their key players signed long term, but won a Stanley Cup to boot.

Regardless of what happens, the Avalanche will be able to get their key players under contract. While I'm not saying they should necessarily go out and sign Marleau or Martin or Kovalchuk or player X, if the deal is right, what possible reason could there be not to sign them? Because David Jones or Brandon Yip may have to be let go? Who gives a crap?
I very much agree. Look at Chicago, they built a great team though the draft, and went a little crazy with their UFA. But they have now won a cup, and despite being in cap hell, will be able to keep the core intact and actually re-build in their effort to shed salary. They have done a great job shedding spare parts for a very good return.

hockeyfish is offline  
Old
07-01-2010, 01:11 PM
  #65
Jori
Registered User
 
Jori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 20,186
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Jori
NHL.com has an official list of free agents. Talbot is listed as a Group II and Grahame is a Group III UFA, so that Yahoo! transaction we saw is for the 09-10 season and not 10-11.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=63234

__________________
Colorado Avalanche Prospects-- News and updates on the future of the Colorado Avalanche!
Colorado's Future -- Team * Manning * Landeskog * Tulowitzki
Jori is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 07:29 PM
  #66
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 18,436
vCash: 50
For those out there that keep mentioning the Avs having trouble making the $43.4 M cap floor (and there seems to be a lot, including AD who keeps mentioning it) here's where the Avs would sit under a hypothetical roster with Mercier and Holos as the 14th and 7th D, and Mueller and Stewart signed to a reasonable $2.25 M each.

Galiardi - Stastny - (Stewart)
(Mueller) - Duchene - Hejduk
Yip - O'Reilly - Jones
Porter - Winnik - McLeod

Quincey - Hannan
Liles - Wilson
Cumiskey - Foote

Anderson
Budaj

x - Koci, Mercier, Holos

10/11 Avs Roster Under ContractCompensationCap Number
Paul Stastny$6,600,000$6,600,000
Scott Hannan$4,500,000$4,500,000
J.M. Liles$4,425,000$4,200,000
Matt Duchene$900,000$3,200,000
Kyle Quincey$3000,000$3,125,000
Milan Hejduk$3,000,000$3,000,000
Adam Foote$1,000,000$1,250,000
Craig Anderson$2,125,000$1,812,500
Peter Budaj$1,250,000$1,250,000
Cody McLeod$900,000$1,033,333
Daniel Winnik$900,000$950,000
Ryan O'Reilly$900,000$900,000
T.J. Galiardi$637,500$875,000
David Jones$850,000$837,500
Brandon Yip$700,000$725,000
Kevin Porter$600,000$660,000
Kyle Cumiskey$675,000$600,000
David Koci$575,000$575,000
Ryan Wilson$530,000$551,667
   
Justin Mercier$575,000$735,000
Jonas Holos$600,000$612,500
   
Peter Mueller$2,250,000$2,250,000
Chris Stewart$2,250,000$2,250,000
   
Tom Preissing Buyout916,667$916,667
   
Total$40,659,167$43,409,167


Last edited by Foppa2118: 07-09-2010 at 12:04 AM.
Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 08:12 PM
  #67
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,836
vCash: 136
Switch Porter with Winnik! Plus they could go out and sign a 4th line guy, but overall I am happy with that roster going into next year.

chewey is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 10:39 PM
  #68
Bonzai12
Registered User
 
Bonzai12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver CO
Country: United States
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 767
Send a message via Yahoo to Bonzai12
We're in trouble if the first guy we count on after an injury is Mercier. Does anyone really believe Hejduk will make it through an entire year injury free?

Bonzai12 is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 10:48 PM
  #69
StanGetz*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Country: Liechtenstein
Posts: 4,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HishonHishoff View Post
We're in trouble if the first guy we count on after an injury is Mercier. Does anyone really believe Hejduk will make it through an entire year injury free?
The only guy I'm pretty confident will be injured at some point is Jonsey.

That's probably pretty optimistic though.

Justin's not the answer though.

StanGetz* is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 11:00 PM
  #70
chewey
dmitri
 
chewey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Near You!
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,836
vCash: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by HishonHishoff View Post
We're in trouble if the first guy we count on after an injury is Mercier. Does anyone really believe Hejduk will make it through an entire year injury free?
I'd think it'd be Stoa but meh, I am expecting this team not to make the playoffs next season (barely if they do).

chewey is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 11:45 PM
  #71
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 28,511
vCash: 50
Avs have a good opportunity to gain assets this summer. Boston, Philly (if they get Zherdev), NJ (if they get Kovy) etc will have to shed salary. Being one of the few teams that have plenty of cap space and ability to take on salary translates to being in a position of real strength.

Play it right and it can be extremely beneficial. Squeeze hard and don't give in to negotiating. It's not like Avs have to do anything.

Freudian is offline  
Old
07-08-2010, 11:59 PM
  #72
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue
Country: United States
Posts: 18,436
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by HishonHishoff View Post
We're in trouble if the first guy we count on after an injury is Mercier. Does anyone really believe Hejduk will make it through an entire year injury free?
Mercier's not the guy replacing Hejduk in the lineup when he gets hurt. That will likely be Stoa. Mercier and Koci are the typical 13th and 14th forwards teams have, that can play 4th line minutes in a pinch, and hopefully add some energy. The guys replacing top line players are in Erie, because they need to be playing instead of sitting in the press box.

Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
07-09-2010, 11:41 AM
  #73
PeterTheGreat
Registered User
 
PeterTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Mercier's not the guy replacing Hejduk in the lineup when he gets hurt. That will likely be Stoa. Mercier and Koci are the typical 13th and 14th forwards teams have, that can play 4th line minutes in a pinch, and hopefully add some energy. The guys replacing top line players are in Erie, because they need to be playing instead of sitting in the press box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Avs have a good opportunity to gain assets this summer. Boston, Philly (if they get Zherdev), NJ (if they get Kovy) etc will have to shed salary. Being one of the few teams that have plenty of cap space and ability to take on salary translates to being in a position of real strength.

Play it right and it can be extremely beneficial. Squeeze hard and don't give in to negotiating. It's not like Avs have to do anything.
Both spot on.

Overall I like the roster. It has it's faults, but it keeps with the rebuild and it still can be very competitive.

PeterTheGreat is offline  
Old
08-01-2010, 01:23 AM
  #74
avsman
Registered User
 
avsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,473
vCash: 500
first of all id like to point out stazz is makin 0.2 less then kopitar, and 0.4 less then backtrom who stastny is verycomparable to. backstrom has ovi, nuff said, and kopitar has a better shot while stazz is a better playmaker, altho very similiar numbers, stastny and stewart will both have higher numbers playing a full season together, and RoR is the next ryan kesler or jordan staal type player

avsman is offline  
Old
08-01-2010, 01:30 AM
  #75
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Country: Scotland
Posts: 13,251
vCash: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsman View Post
first of all id like to point out stazz is makin 0.2 less then kopitar, and 0.4 less then backtrom who stastny is verycomparable to. backstrom has ovi, nuff said, and kopitar has a better shot while stazz is a better playmaker, altho very similiar numbers, stastny and stewart will both have higher numbers playing a full season together, and RoR is the next ryan kesler or jordan staal type player
And your point is...?

WarriorOfGandhi is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.