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Yeah, just give the Flames the Cup now

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Old
05-12-2004, 01:18 PM
  #26
windowlicker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Enough of this argument Thome, your making Oil fans seem petty.

The Flames have eliminated the #3 seed, the #1 seed and are on the verge of eliminating the #2 seed. They are winning because they defend the middle of their zone effectively, they attack the net like Japanese kamikazee pilots and their goaltending is superb.

Never mind your freaking potential, potential is worth jack ********** squat. How do you know Kiprisoff is peaking? This year has been his first real chance of being a starting goalie and he's run with it. How do you know he's not going to have a Hasek like career? Let's put 100 fans in the room and ask them a simple question, "who would you like to start next year in net for you Mikka Kiprusoff or the Ty/Jussi combo". What would the vote be Thome 99-1 for Mikka?

Yeah Calgary will be a much worse team next year, what with Reinprecht, Lydman, Gauthier and McCammond in their playoff seasoned lineup. Not to mention the 8-10 million dollars the owners will have from playoff gate. Forget Iginla trade rumours the team has made his salary for the next two years.

Playoff results are what matter Thome, not regular season standings, not your prospect rating on the HF site, the playoffs are ALL that count, and right now Calgary has accomplished more this year than we have in the last dozen or so years. THey have the best player in the world, a good core of team players and a cagey and wise coach and GM and right now the vile Calgary Flames are the best fricking team in the province. It's time for the Oil to realize the bar has been set very, very high.

What's your post gonna be when these SOB's win the cup? Big deal becasue the Oil will be a better team in 2008? The cinderella argument is lame.
So what is your argument then? That everything that has happened up to know has been a part of the Flames plan? (including missing the playoffs for 7 years?). That at this point all us Oiler fans better accept the fact that we have here the beginnings of a Flaming Dynasty and we'd better accept with quiet dignity the fact that the Oilers are gonna be Jarome's bitc*es for the next 3-4 years? IF anyone here accepts that, kindly go somewhere. If anyone here is getting ready for a BOA massacre (with us getting massacred) then get the **** off the wagon.

IF anything, this run proves that ANY team, with the right chemistry has a chance at getting to the finals. Seeing the Flames at 2 wins away from the Final has actually made me believe that capturing No.6 for us is Not impossible in the near future. That this is not a Holy Grail type quest, available only to the supreme few. Any team can get close to it if the chemistry and timing are right (Minnesota, Carolina, Washington, Anaheim.. and now Calgary)

I now believe that our team is very much capable of bringing the Cup back to the City of Champions in the near future.

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05-12-2004, 01:55 PM
  #27
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I am not concerned about the "upstart" Flames, just like I wasn't concerned about the upstart Ducks or the upstart Wild.

Despite the fact that their fans really wanted them to be special teams, they aren't. They were for one magical year where they got great goaltending, timely goals and great team play.

Now why on earth would I think any different of Calgary? They are the exact same. Strong season, creep into the playoffs as a lower seeded team and pounce on a team who was undermanned or not ready thanks to some good team play and goaltending.

If they have any degree of success next year, then I may switch my opinion of them... but until then, they are no different than Anaheim or Minnesota to me.

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05-12-2004, 04:02 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
I am not concerned about the "upstart" Flames, just like I wasn't concerned about the upstart Ducks or the upstart Wild.

Despite the fact that their fans really wanted them to be special teams, they aren't. They were for one magical year where they got great goaltending, timely goals and great team play.

Now why on earth would I think any different of Calgary? They are the exact same. Strong season, creep into the playoffs as a lower seeded team and pounce on a team who was undermanned or not ready thanks to some good team play and goaltending.

If they have any degree of success next year, then I may switch my opinion of them... but until then, they are no different than Anaheim or Minnesota to me.

How about Flames are the Stanley Champions this year? I don't know anyone saying that Stanley Cup championship is a fluke. May be I am not aware of

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05-12-2004, 04:04 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xauxi
How about Flames are the Stanley Champions this year? I don't know anyone saying that Stanley Cup championship is a fluke. May be I am not aware of
No it isn't a fluke... neither is making it to the conference finals.

Those are a lot of lucky bounces for it to be considered a fluke, and that isn't the case here.

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05-12-2004, 04:19 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
So what is your argument then? That everything that has happened up to know has been a part of the Flames plan? (including missing the playoffs for 7 years?). That at this point all us Oiler fans better accept the fact that we have here the beginnings of a Flaming Dynasty and we'd better accept with quiet dignity the fact that the Oilers are gonna be Jarome's bitc*es for the next 3-4 years? IF anyone here accepts that, kindly go somewhere. If anyone here is getting ready for a BOA massacre (with us getting massacred) then get the **** off the wagon.

IF anything, this run proves that ANY team, with the right chemistry has a chance at getting to the finals. Seeing the Flames at 2 wins away from the Final has actually made me believe that capturing No.6 for us is Not impossible in the near future. That this is not a Holy Grail type quest, available only to the supreme few. Any team can get close to it if the chemistry and timing are right (Minnesota, Carolina, Washington, Anaheim.. and now Calgary)

I now believe that our team is very much capable of bringing the Cup back to the City of Champions in the near future.
No my argument is that why temper what Calgary is doing right now by saying "yeah but they won't do well next year". It's a petty argument. We need to accept they are the stronger team in the province and hope that management does what is neccesary to win the BOA next year. Instead we get excuse riddled arguments that make it sound like we have nothing to fear with Calgary as a division rival next year because they're fluky/their goaltending is hot/ we have better prospects yadda, yadda, yadda.

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05-12-2004, 04:34 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
No my argument is that why temper what Calgary is doing right now by saying "yeah but they won't do well next year". It's a petty argument. We need to accept they are the stronger team in the province and hope that management does what is neccesary to win the BOA next year. Instead we get excuse riddled arguments that make it sound like we have nothing to fear with Calgary as a division rival next year because they're fluky/their goaltending is hot/ we have better prospects yadda, yadda, yadda.
Minnesota ring a bell?

I don't recall this much pannic after Minnesota advanced this far last year.

Of course we all want the team to be better... but I don't give 2 flying monkey humps about the BOA of next year. If we win the BOA next year and miss the playoffs is that fine?

I don't think it is. Remember the 1998 Olympic team? They were built simply to beat the United States... well they played them once in a meaningless game but lost in the QF. Your objective is never to beat one team, otherwise you are screwing yourself.

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05-12-2004, 04:59 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
No my argument is that why temper what Calgary is doing right now by saying "yeah but they won't do well next year". It's a petty argument. We need to accept they are the stronger team in the province and hope that management does what is neccesary to win the BOA next year. Instead we get excuse riddled arguments that make it sound like we have nothing to fear with Calgary as a division rival next year because they're fluky/their goaltending is hot/ we have better prospects yadda, yadda, yadda.
We need to accept that they are a stronger team than us? Why dont you change your name to HotMartyGellinnay and go post there.

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05-12-2004, 05:06 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowlicker
We need to accept that they are a stronger team than us? Why dont you change your name to HotMartyGellinnay and go post there.
Or I could borrow a pair of rose colored glasses from you and post how great things are in oilland.

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05-12-2004, 05:35 PM
  #34
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I understand what HotToddy is saying, it is very logical.

But in my opinion the Calgary team we're seeing right now is not the team we'll see next season, if it is I will admit my mistake, but all signs are pointing to Anaheim part Deux. Therefore, I don't think the Flames are better than the Oilers.

The Oilers finished only five points behind Calgary with the worst starting goalie in their worst season in years! The Oilers only finished five points behind a team that enjoyed its best season in years, had arguably the best goalie in the league who broke a record! Seriously think about that for awhile people!! The Oilers are not a bad team by any means, even though they had the worst starter! It's all about consistency.

Remember Anaheim was much more impressive than Calgary, only losing two games before the Stanley Cup Finals!

Flames fans are saying because most of their players are signed is a reason why the Flames are not the next Anaheim who lost some players due to free agency. Except they ignore that Anaheim's success last year was largely due to their goaltender just like Calgary's success right now is largely due to their goaltender. It's that simple.

I hope I made myself clear.


Last edited by Oilers Hockey: 05-12-2004 at 05:38 PM.
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05-12-2004, 05:48 PM
  #35
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It really doesn't matter who will be better next year or the year after if you ask me. The Oilers haven't been up 2-0 in a Western Conference final in a long time. Sure, arguments could be made we'll be better than them next year, but we're stuck in the midst of draft projections and they are two wins away from a Cup appearance.

I don't care how bad they "will" be, they're playing and we're not.

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05-12-2004, 06:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Enough of this argument Thome, your making Oil fans seem petty.

The Flames have eliminated the #3 seed, the #1 seed and are on the verge of eliminating the #2 seed. They are winning because they defend the middle of their zone effectively, they attack the net like Japanese kamikazee pilots and their goaltending is superb.

Never mind your freaking potential, potential is worth jack ********** squat. How do you know Kiprisoff is peaking? This year has been his first real chance of being a starting goalie and he's run with it. How do you know he's not going to have a Hasek like career? Let's put 100 fans in the room and ask them a simple question, "who would you like to start next year in net for you Mikka Kiprusoff or the Ty/Jussi combo". What would the vote be Thome 99-1 for Mikka?

Yeah Calgary will be a much worse team next year, what with Reinprecht, Lydman, Gauthier and McCammond in their playoff seasoned lineup. Not to mention the 8-10 million dollars the owners will have from playoff gate. Forget Iginla trade rumours the team has made his salary for the next two years.

Playoff results are what matter Thome, not regular season standings, not your prospect rating on the HF site, the playoffs are ALL that count, and right now Calgary has accomplished more this year than we have in the last dozen or so years. THey have the best player in the world, a good core of team players and a cagey and wise coach and GM and right now the vile Calgary Flames are the best fricking team in the province. It's time for the Oil to realize the bar has been set very, very high.

What's your post gonna be when these SOB's win the cup? Big deal becasue the Oil will be a better team in 2008? The cinderella argument is lame.
exactly man good post

that Thome guy is just full of jealousy, I thought oilers fans had a bit more class than that

I mean the flames are playing great even with all our injuries did the other "cinderella teams" do that

I dont like that cinderella word, it takes away from all the hard work the players are doing out there

wake up people this team deserves every win it gets, didnt you see yelle out there blocking shots like a mad man in that Game 1 vs the sharks

and dont give me that lame arguement about how kippur stole it for them, kipur is part of the flames and thats what good goalies do

I mean the main thing is we won, and that is that

and people just cant handle it

especially oiler fans

and to think all those years you got beat by Dallas I was cheering for your team

and I think that in the west, we have room for new leaders now the Detroit and Colorado days are pretty much over, atleast for now

its time for some new teams to step up

and I hope both the flames and oilers can be a part in that

wouldnt it be great to see the flames vs the oilers in a western conferance final

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05-12-2004, 06:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by HotToddy
Playoff results are what matter Thome, not regular season standings, not your prospect rating on the HF site, the playoffs are ALL that count, and right now Calgary has accomplished more this year than we have in the last dozen or so years.
Great post, HotToddy. I do think that the Oilers are on the right track, but that they are much farther back in the cycle than the Flames. Calgary has been out of the playoffs forever, and those picks and some pretty solid trades are paying off now.

The Oilers were built for post CBA. I don't think anyone thought the Oilers were going for the Cup this season, especially since their transactions were the type that didn't cost alot of the future (Oates signing, calling up Bishai instead of dealing for an available veteran) even when the holes were massive.

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05-12-2004, 08:20 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by smeagol
I mean the flames are playing great even with all our injuries did the other "cinderella teams" do that
Until Kiprusoff gets injured, you know, the guy who is the sole reason of why you are where you are, then you can use the injury excuse to feel better about yourself.

Oh and this:

Quote:
I thought oilers fans had a bit more class than that
followed by this:

Quote:
I mean the main thing is we won, and that is that

and people just cant handle it

especially oiler fans
Quote:
and to think all those years you got beat by Dallas I was cheering for your team
Sure ya were, buddy. You were cheering for us to lose like every other Flames fan, don't deny it - in my experience most Flames fans are far from saints.

Until the Lames prove they can do this again then the Anaheim part 2. comparisons will cease, so stop whining and get used to it.


Last edited by jfont: 05-12-2004 at 11:35 PM. Reason: unnecessary..
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Old
05-12-2004, 08:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HotToddy
Or I could borrow a pair of rose colored glasses from you and post how great things are in oilland.
No colored glasses here. Just regular prescription. And I dont think Lowe is a saint or a masterful GM. Everyone of his moves can he categorized as "bad-timing" or a "non-addressing" deal. Woywitka was not going to help us get into the playoffs this year, no matter how he played. Last year Dvorak was a question mark coming back for a "at the time" consistent scorer. And he's lucky as hell Torres decided to live up to his draft position. And then theres the goaltending & 1st line center situation which was left to fester for way too long last season. Im not sure how methodical Lowe is, but something HAD to have been on the table earlier in the year to move for a "more" stable goaltending situation & try to obtain a center who can step in immediately and play.
He did sign Staios long term, and got Moreau to commit, but these 2 moves were not going to advance this team this season.

And dear God, dont get me started on MacT. I ceased to have any sort of like for the guy at about the 40th game of last season. I just dont like the guy as the coach of this team.

But, when someone suggests we throw ourselves on the ground at the mercy of the Flaming Behemoth that will go on a killing spree next season, I dont think so.
Right now Calgary is playing on hunger, drive and chemistry. This has very little to do with talent. And your right... all that matters is that they are still playing, and we have not for a while now. But overall supremacy? I dont think so.

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05-12-2004, 10:20 PM
  #40
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Yeah, it took the Flames 15 years to win a playoff round

and the Oilers have won just two playoff rounds in the last 12 years. Cgy has done that this current second season.

I think the Flames are getting lots of bounces right now and if Kipper can play close to this again then I guess Brodeur can step aside because there's a new guy in town.

BUT the fact is the Flames are doing something the Oilers haven't done in 12 years and while Lowe and Co are busy making excuses, the Flames are making time to count their playoff wins and gates.

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05-13-2004, 12:54 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by thome_26
Well the Oilers have ALOT of potential to improve while the Flames, really, lack the money or the prospects to improve beyond where they are - or even maintain this success.
I had a hard time reading this part as the steam rising from that pile of cr@p was blocking my view!

Lack of money? please!! the Flames owners could buy your team and fold it in a blink of an eye. Your "community" owners up there would fold your team if they ever missed the dance for 7 years. the Flames owners have lost 35 million in the last 5 years and the only peep out of them was the need for a new CBA...can you blame them? your team would have been gone with those losses and current owners.

Prospects? how about the #1 rated defenseman? 5th rated goalie (although fat) in the world! not to mention a couple of slick russians, one of which lead the scoring at the WJ's in Halifax last year.Talk all you want or need about the so-called lack of talent (current or future) of the Flames,fact is this team is being built over a 5 year plan by Sutter to compete in the playoffs(coming faster then he thought) not to just make it in and get waxed because of heartless soft players and primadona defense

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05-13-2004, 12:58 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by T@T
Your "community" owners up there
Are you calling us commies? :mad:

Quote:
would fold your team if they ever missed the dance for 7 years.
How do you know?

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05-13-2004, 01:00 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Oilers Hockey



How do you know?
Two of them told me so

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05-13-2004, 01:04 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by windowlicker
No colored glasses here. Just regular prescription. And I dont think Lowe is a saint or a masterful GM. Everyone of his moves can he categorized as "bad-timing" or a "non-addressing" deal. Woywitka was not going to help us get into the playoffs this year, no matter how he played. Last year Dvorak was a question mark coming back for a "at the time" consistent scorer. And he's lucky as hell Torres decided to live up to his draft position. And then theres the goaltending & 1st line center situation which was left to fester for way too long last season. Im not sure how methodical Lowe is, but something HAD to have been on the table earlier in the year to move for a "more" stable goaltending situation & try to obtain a center who can step in immediately and play.
He did sign Staios long term, and got Moreau to commit, but these 2 moves were not going to advance this team this season.

And dear God, dont get me started on MacT. I ceased to have any sort of like for the guy at about the 40th game of last season. I just dont like the guy as the coach of this tea

But, when someone suggests we throw ourselves on the ground at the mercy of the Flaming Behemoth that will go on a killing spree next season, I dont think so.
Right now Calgary is playing on hunger, drive and chemistry. This has very little to do with talent. And your right... all that matters is that they are still playing, and we have not for a while now. But overall supremacy? I dont think so.
Where did I suggest we quiver before the Calgary might? My only problem was posters suggesting they aren't impressed or don't respect the Flames run because they beleive that Calgary will suck next year. I said and still say that is loser talk.

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05-13-2004, 01:14 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Where did I suggest we quiver before the Calgary might? My only problem was posters suggesting they aren't impressed or don't respect the Flames run because they beleive that Calgary will suck next year. I said and still say that is loser talk.
The same was said with Anaheim and Carolina and look what happened. Even Minnesota.

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05-13-2004, 02:30 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Oilers Hockey
Until Kiprusoff gets injured, you know, the guy who is the sole reason of why you are where you are, then you can use the injury excuse to feel better about yourself.

Oh and this:



followed by this:





Sure ya were, buddy. You were cheering for us to lose like every other Flames fan, don't deny it - in my experience most Flames fans are far from saints.

Until the Lames prove they can do this again then the Anaheim part 2. comparisons will cease, so stop whining and get used to it.
LOL

why should we prove anything, no one expects us to win anything, and that makes it all the more fun

I mean dude come on

I know you wish it was the oilers playing Sanjose on Thursday and not the flames

and quit living in the past or the future

the fact is that we are in the Western confernace final, and you are not

when was the last time you were there?

Call it whatever you want I know youd love to be in our spot

and as for Kipurr getting injured, ofcourse that would suck

but wouldnt it have sucked for New Jersey back last year if Brodeur got injured

would they have beat the sens?

Prob not

All good teams need a great goalie to get deep into the playoffs

I mean look at the Sens, prob the most skilled team, but thier goalie ruined it for them in a big game 7

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05-13-2004, 02:33 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeagol
LOL

why should we prove anything, no one expects us to win anything, and that makes it all the more fun

I mean dude come on

I know you wish it was the oilers playing Sanjose on Thursday and not the flames

and quit living in the past or the future

the fact is that we are in the Western confernace final, and you are not

when was the last time you were there?

Call it whatever you want I know youd love to be in our spot

and as for Kipurr getting injured, ofcourse that would suck

but wouldnt it have sucked for New Jersey back last year if Brodeur got injured

would they have beat the sens?

Prob not

All good teams need a great goalie to get deep into the playoffs

I mean look at the Sens, prob the most skilled team, but thier goalie ruined it for them in a big game 7
Not when Iginla says the Oilers stole their playoff spot last season.

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05-13-2004, 03:29 AM
  #48
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Hey thome, you're famous.

I should have known smeagol was from that deranged psycho loser board.

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05-13-2004, 03:38 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy
Where did I suggest we quiver before the Calgary might? My only problem was posters suggesting they aren't impressed or don't respect the Flames run because they beleive that Calgary will suck next year. I said and still say that is loser talk.
I respect their run but don't think it's loser talk to suggest that it's probably a fluke.

Have seen too many runs like this, not just the last few years, but all thru the 80's & 90's, that I have to be skeptical.

I look at the roster and sorry, I don't see the talent level matching their achievement.

Right now, they are a young team w/o much past success and so they are listening to their new no-nonsense coach. They need to play helter skelter to win every night. You just gotta wonder, will they keep this up for the next several years or will Sutter eventually take them to the breaking point b/c frankly, he doesn't know any other way to coach.

If anything, I think this run may be detrimental to the franchise b/c it sets the expectation way too high for the near future.

Until they can put together at least several 90+ points season in a row, I wouldn't consider them belonging to the upper echelon yet.

P.S. even if they somehow manage to win the Cup this year, I would still maintain my stance. Flukey teams do win cups. Just take a look at the last 2 won by Montreal.

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05-13-2004, 07:03 AM
  #50
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If anything, I think this run may be detrimental to the franchise b/c it sets the expectation way too high for the near future.
LOL

oh please, now you are just humiliating yourself

so hold on a sec

the flames should just give up and loose

and not go out there and play thier hearts out every night, isnt that what the playoffs are all about

is that what you mean

what kind of logic is that

you really think here in calgary we are expecting them to do this every year

my freind there are no "for sures " in the playoffs

look at the wings or sens

if the flames do this again, great

if not then they dont and thats to bad

but we will enjoy it whenever we can

whats the problem

and the stanley cup is the most tough thing to win in sports

no flukey team ever wins it



no one here is even expecting them to win the cup, its a hope, but we arent going to cry if they dont





and if they do theyll have to get past some very very tough eastern teams


Last edited by Smeagol: 05-13-2004 at 07:14 AM.
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