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Old
04-28-2010, 04:46 PM
  #26
krepitch
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A late congratulations from me, too. It's tough to lose, of course, but I don't think anyone can argue that Detroit didn't deserve to win the series. Best of luck in the rest of the playoffs.

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Old
04-28-2010, 04:58 PM
  #27
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Fugu,

Don't know how old you are, or how much you remember, but one thing: we were spoiled by having Steve Yzerman. And for many, there's this tendency to equate Yzerman's character on and off the ice with TGO, and Mario, for that matter.
But, neither TGO or Mario are the man of character that #19 is.

I remember well, Wayne's rant against the New Jersey Devil's franchise, calling the organization "Mickey Mouse." But it wasn't so much what he said, everyone spouts off now and then, as it was his arrogance, defiance, and outright refusal to to apologize, or at least try an lessen the embarrassment this brought on his own team and the league. No one tells Wayne Gretzky what to do.

Same behavior, different scenario, when he boarded a Buffalo player (I believe it was Buffalo) and used his stick on the poor guy. He serious injured the player, and Gretzky acted like it was his right, and actually laughed when asked about it. Remember the mask of arrogance we'd see when we'd play his Coyotes? Picture it after these 2 incidents. Think Stevie Y would ever behave like that?

Wayne may have been one of the top 5 greatest players of all time on the ice, but he's a person of very low character off the ice.
I'm still younger than Cheli, but not by much.

In terms of class, yes, Stevie and Lidstrom have to be two of the best ever. I was referring to achievement though, and TGO's records speak for themselves. One of my hockey buddies says he met Gretzky recently and thought the guy was an arrogant *****-- from a guy who revered him since his younger days (he's around my age, btw).

Still, having all the attention and PR work surrounding you all the time, and a guy is going to have a few bad days.

Regardless though of how we feel about the other things, it's his coaching record that's pretty bad. One good thing to come from the Moyes fallout and bankruptcy is dumping TGO's contract and getting a real coach.

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04-28-2010, 06:49 PM
  #28
O23L
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Great Series guys.
I enjoyed every second of it. (Even tho the Wings won 3/4 the games i was at)

Most of your fans are great people, but your Rep gets ruined by the 10% Who are drunk and obnoxious the whole game

But anyway, after not being in the playoffs for 8 years, i forgot what it felt like.
And that hard fought series was MORE than i expected.

Even tho i wish it went the other way, thanks for the fun

And not twords wings fans, but to other fans in the NHL: I HOPE THAT SHOWED YOU THAT WE CAN SUPPORT A TEAM. THERE IS HOCKEY AN ARIZONA, AND WERE HERE TO STAY

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04-28-2010, 11:40 PM
  #29
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Great series guys, I hated having to play you guys in the 1st round I was hoping you guys could win a round or two. Here's to more succesful seasons in the desert!

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04-29-2010, 12:03 PM
  #30
BTCG
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'm still younger than Cheli, but not by much.

In terms of class, yes, Stevie and Lidstrom have to be two of the best ever. I was referring to achievement though, and TGO's records speak for themselves. One of my hockey buddies says he met Gretzky recently and thought the guy was an arrogant *****-- from a guy who revered him since his younger days (he's around my age, btw).

Still, having all the attention and PR work surrounding you all the time, and a guy is going to have a few bad days.

Regardless though of how we feel about the other things, it's his coaching record that's pretty bad. One good thing to come from the Moyes fallout and bankruptcy is dumping TGO's contract and getting a real coach.
Yes... and no. When he lost his supporting cast of Oiler's and went on to lesser teams, Wayne was often a lot less than great, even with the same gift given to Crosby these days: the ref's help.

It's also been said that TGO often times was not pursued that hard, being the league's meal ticket in economically hard times for the NHL, a fact not lost on the players.

Still, yes, he was one of the all-time greats. But one thing about character on and off the ice, it sometimes affects your game. Yzerman recognized that he had to make sacrifices for the benefit of his team, and became a Selke award winning 2-way player. No so with Wayne & Mario, and when the Devil's system became the NHL norm, Mario whined and quit, and TGO wasn't long for the league either. And Stevie won the Cup again. Maybe the hockey gods reward character?

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05-02-2010, 09:54 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Yes... and no. When he lost his supporting cast of Oiler's and went on to lesser teams, Wayne was often a lot less than great, even with the same gift given to Crosby these days: the ref's help.

It's also been said that TGO often times was not pursued that hard, being the league's meal ticket in economically hard times for the NHL, a fact not lost on the players.

Still, yes, he was one of the all-time greats. But one thing about character on and off the ice, it sometimes affects your game. Yzerman recognized that he had to make sacrifices for the benefit of his team, and became a Selke award winning 2-way player. No so with Wayne & Mario, and when the Devil's system became the NHL norm, Mario whined and quit, and TGO wasn't long for the league either. And Stevie won the Cup again. Maybe the hockey gods reward character?
Well, first of all I'll agree with you that Yzerman is about the classiest thing to ever hit the ice, and a top talent in the history of the game, as would just about anyone.

That being said...Mario quit due to illness, if I do recall correctly, whether he whined about the system or not. Actually, I've generally considered him relatively classy too. Wayne, on the other hand...he's a pretentious ******. That being said, to say he was a byproduct of Kurri and Messier on the Oilers is ridiculous. Yeah, his production changed some with a lesser supporting cast, but come on-the guy still has more assists than anyone else has points. He could have never scored a goal in the NHL-which he's still the leader of-and he would be the points leader. His off ice character may suck, but there's no debating his on ice talent.

[edit]: I will grant you that Yzerman was willing to change his game though, which enabled him to stick around and win the Cup again. Ordinarily, I'd like to say I'd go with Yzerman's leadership and defense, over what Wayne brings to the table, but Wayne brings a lot of points to the table...it'd be a tough statement to make.

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Old
05-02-2010, 11:51 AM
  #32
Fugu
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
Yes... and no. When he lost his supporting cast of Oiler's and went on to lesser teams, Wayne was often a lot less than great, even with the same gift given to Crosby these days: the ref's help.

It's also been said that TGO often times was not pursued that hard, being the league's meal ticket in economically hard times for the NHL, a fact not lost on the players.

Still, yes, he was one of the all-time greats. But one thing about character on and off the ice, it sometimes affects your game. Yzerman recognized that he had to make sacrifices for the benefit of his team, and became a Selke award winning 2-way player. No so with Wayne & Mario, and when the Devil's system became the NHL norm, Mario whined and quit, and TGO wasn't long for the league either. And Stevie won the Cup again. Maybe the hockey gods reward character?

If that and your character arguments were true, only Stevie's name would be on the Cup. TGO does have four.

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