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What would people propose for Gauthier?

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Old
05-13-2004, 11:01 PM
  #76
Reaper45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
but you're not going to get a number 1 center for a #4-5 d-man with injury problems. cammaleri is a pretty solid prospect, and i think it's too much.
The Kings need some grit on the blueline pretty bad. Gauthier for Cammalleri straight up sounds good to me.

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05-13-2004, 11:06 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
but you're not going to get a number 1 center for a #4-5 d-man with injury problems. cammaleri is a pretty solid prospect, and i think it's too much.
First, Gauthier played 80 games this year and has minimized injuries for three seasons straight. Second, what I said earlier in the thread was that a package around Gauthier could be put together to get a POTENTIAL #1 center. Don't put words in my mouth, read the thread. As for a "preatty good prospect", no doubt he has decent value for an undersized forward -- but a package around Gauthier can probably get more in return.

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05-13-2004, 11:10 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
The Kings need some grit on the blueline pretty bad. Gauthier for Cammalleri straight up sounds good to me.
But it won't happen, Sutter won't touch Cammaleri, sorry. The Flames don't need help on the right-side anymore, and are looking for someone who can replace Conroy should he not be back next year.

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05-13-2004, 11:13 PM
  #79
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how about gauthier for arkhipov, straight? or arkhipov and say, a 6th?

arkhipov's problems aren't due to lack of ability...but some sort of confidence problems. he's big...6'3, 220...and can use his size. I just don't think Trotz is the right sort of coach to unlock the player that Arkhipov was when he potted 20 goals his rookie season. He's a big center...and I think Sutter could get him back on track.

As mentioned earlier, the Preds could use Gauthier, to give us two physical d-men, along with Hnidy.

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05-13-2004, 11:16 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
how about gauthier for arkhipov, straight? or arkhipov and say, a 6th?
It would take a lot more than that IMO. Arhipov has lost a LOT of value in the last year, far too much of a risk. Legwand for a Gauthier package (prospect + pick) or whatever the Preds needs are might be do-able.

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05-13-2004, 11:19 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
It would take a lot more than that IMO. Arhipov has lost a LOT of value in the last year, far too much of a risk. Legwand for a Gauthier package (prospect + pick) or whatever the Preds needs are might be do-able.

i think you're reaaally overvaluing Gauthier. You just can't get a number one center for a guy who is, at best, a number 4 d-man...even with the prospect or pick thrown in. Gauthier is an extra piece to Calgary, with Phaneuf coming in\the emergence of Montador. Arkhipov might be a gamble, but it could pay off bigtime.

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05-13-2004, 11:24 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
i think you're reaaally overvaluing Gauthier. You just can't get a number one center for a guy who is, at best, a number 4 d-man...even with the prospect or pick thrown in. Gauthier is an extra piece to Calgary, with Phaneuf coming in\the emergence of Montador. Arkhipov might be a gamble, but it could pay off bigtime.
What if the Gauthier package included an 1st for a 2nd pick exchange? You have to be nuts to rule that a package cannot be put together. As for Arkhipov, Sutter won't touch him, he's not a big fan of inconsistent guys with confidence issues -- it won't happen, I think Gauthier is an overpayment for him anyways.

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05-13-2004, 11:26 PM
  #83
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Arkhipov's production problems are also related to the system in which the Predators play - because he certainly has ability. Arkhipov may very well end up a truly solid pickup for a team who gives him a little more offensive freedom and gives him a chance to gain some confidence.

( edit: I'm one step behind .. )

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05-13-2004, 11:43 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
What if the Gauthier package included an 1st for a 2nd pick exchange? You have to be nuts to rule that a package cannot be put together. As for Arkhipov, Sutter won't touch him, he's not a big fan of inconsistent guys with confidence issues -- it won't happen, I think Gauthier is an overpayment for him anyways.

but you have to think about our needs. arkhipov is expendable to us ONLY because he's fallen out of the graces of management. Nashville is as shallow at center as you guys are, and if Legwand were traded...that would leave...Greg Johnson as our number one center? A guy we'd normally use on the third line? Andreas Johansson, continuing to play an unnatural position? Trading Legwand would only be possible if we were acquiring a draft pick that would snag us a center that could come in and contribute IMMEDIATELY(this year, that's probably only Ovechkin) or for some sort of package that would return a guy that would only be a slight downgrade. Otherwise, we're basically eliminating any chance of returning to the playoffs, which would be a shame, because the Preds should be an even stronger team, next year.

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05-14-2004, 12:20 AM
  #85
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Whats Arkipov's skating like?

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05-14-2004, 12:30 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
but you have to think about our needs. arkhipov is expendable to us ONLY because he's fallen out of the graces of management. Nashville is as shallow at center as you guys are, and if Legwand were traded...that would leave...Greg Johnson as our number one center? A guy we'd normally use on the third line? Andreas Johansson, continuing to play an unnatural position? Trading Legwand would only be possible if we were acquiring a draft pick that would snag us a center that could come in and contribute IMMEDIATELY(this year, that's probably only Ovechkin) or for some sort of package that would return a guy that would only be a slight downgrade. Otherwise, we're basically eliminating any chance of returning to the playoffs, which would be a shame, because the Preds should be an even stronger team, next year.
The Flames and Predators have similiar systems. If Arkhipov can't excel in Nashville, he probably won't excel here either. As for Legwand, if you think he can get you someone like Ovechkin you are in for a dissapointment. Legwand has had five seasons now and hasn't done better than 48PTS.

Anyways, the only reason why I brought up Legwand is because another Preds fan left him out out a list of untouchables. Clearly the Preds can use a guy like Gauthier, but Arkhipov isn't going to do it I'm afraid.

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05-14-2004, 01:39 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
Whats Arkipov's skating like?

very fast, for a big guy. one of his strong points, actually.


as for Arkhipov not excelling, it's not so much to do with Nashville's system as an incident that happened the summer after his rookie year. Denis was pulled over for speeding, and was convicted of a DUI. In a city that's as relatively small as Nashville, this was a pretty big story..and with some of the media already casting a leery eye toward the culpability of hockey in Nashville...a lot more was made of it than need be. He's suffered from some sort of mental block, ever since. To make it worse, he was demoted from second line icetime to fourth line\healthy scratch...and even said in Russian interviews that it was destroying his game, and he wants nothing more than to get back on track. He's a big, fast, solid center...that just needs to get the heck out of Nashville and get himself back on track.

As for Legwand-Ovechkin....I wasn't proposing that such a trade could occur. Give me some credit. I was only saying that Ovechkin is the only person in this year's draft that could REPLACE Legwand for us.

As for the Arkhipov\Gauthier trade...something could be thrown in...but the value really is pretty close..so it's probably only going to be a low-grade prospect\journeyman NHL or low draft pick

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05-14-2004, 02:43 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45
Last time I checked, Cammaleri was a RW.
Check again, TSN shows him as a RW/C. He's a center converted to right-wing because he doesn't have enough size to be effective down the middle. Typical of most centers with size deficiencies.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/player_b...476&hubname=LA

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05-14-2004, 02:49 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
As for the Arkhipov\Gauthier trade...something could be thrown in...but the value really is pretty close..so it's probably only going to be a low-grade prospect\journeyman NHL or low draft pick
I think you'd be surprised how far Arkhipov's value has fallen. Not so much about any off-ice antics, atleast not around the league, but mainly due to him being scratched frequently and not showing up to play. From what I saw of him live at GEC, and yes I have been there and watch a few games this year -- I wasn't impressed with Arkhipov when he did play. Anyone who can lose his playing ability over a speeding ticket (as you alledge) doesn't have the mental tougness to accomplish much without a lot of help -- and Sutter won't touch that. He's not going to move a 26-year old veteran d-man who has been stable thoughout for him, that's for sure. The Flames can probably do better, Zubrus has been offered by Caps fans around here, I'd take him before Arkhipov myself (as would most people I am sure).

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05-14-2004, 03:07 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicycle Repairman
Denis Gauthier is an injury prone defensively-liable, offensively-challenged blueliner who can't back up his big bodychecks with his dukes. He is a turtle.

He makes too much money as it is, yet still finds time to publicly whine about it.

Sutter has called him out numerous times to little avail.

I'd say he's worth no more than perhaps a fourth round pick.
then you will have the luxury of picking what team's 4th rounder you want, as every team in the league would offer that for gauthier

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05-14-2004, 03:21 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids
You just can't get a number one center for a guy who is, at best, a number 4 d-man.
I like him and all, but since when is David Legwand a number one center? His stats wouldn't even make him a legit 2nd line center (28, 41, 30, 48 and 47 seasons) and his defense is far from reliable like it was projected to be. Sure he's young, but his progression has been minimal ever since his rookie season, he is very inconsistant and seems to dissapear when he has to step it up. I still like his upside, but so far he's been quite a dissapointment. A number one center? Not yet, he still needs a loooong way to go.

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05-14-2004, 07:29 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruezer
What about for Dagenais? He has some solid potential though, Calgary would probably have to throw a pick in.
Or you guys could probably get him as a cheap UFA when the habs let him walk.

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05-14-2004, 07:32 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
It would take a lot more than that IMO. Arhipov has lost a LOT of value in the last year, far too much of a risk. Legwand for a Gauthier package (prospect + pick) or whatever the Preds needs are might be do-able.
You've got to be kidding me...

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05-14-2004, 09:55 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = Dud
I like him and all, but since when is David Legwand a number one center? His stats wouldn't even make him a legit 2nd line center (28, 41, 30, 48 and 47 seasons) and his defense is far from reliable like it was projected to be. Sure he's young, but his progression has been minimal ever since his rookie season, he is very inconsistant and seems to dissapear when he has to step it up. I still like his upside, but so far he's been quite a dissapointment. A number one center? Not yet, he still needs a loooong way to go.

if you think his defense is far from reliable, you haven't seen much of him...or caught a rare bad game. he's easily the best backchecker on the team. as for his numbers....that's something that's often discussed on the nashville board....but it has a lot less to do with his actual ability than a lot of people understand, and more to do with the fact that offensive d-men of Timonen and Zidlicky's caliber, trotz likes them to jump up into the rush...and whomever the center is hangs back to cover. Johansson, who is probably second only to sullivan as a pure scorer on our team...saw a HUGE drop in stats when he was moved to center for us. Our centers have always HAD to be 'defense-first,' and the fact that Legwand is even scoring in the area of 20 goals a year is actually impressive, given how little opportunity he's really given.

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05-14-2004, 11:06 AM
  #95
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And, he is still young.

I think Legwand will eventually be a 25 goal 70 point man. I certainly wouldn't trade him for a #5 dman like Gauthier.

If Nashville decides to give up on him - sent him to the Island. He'd easily be one our best forwards.

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05-14-2004, 07:27 PM
  #96
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You've got to be kidding me...
Take the ad hominems elsewhere please. It just wastes everyone's time. If you have something to say, say it. My apologies to everyone else for having to endure THIS ad hominem.

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