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Ed Giacomin VS Rogie Vachon

View Poll Results: Ed Giacomin VS Rogie Vachon
Ed Giacomin 22 68.75%
Rogie Vachon 10 31.25%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-28-2010, 09:18 PM
  #1
JFA87-66-99
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Ed Giacomin VS Rogie Vachon

Who was the better goaltender. Both are underrated I think, but if you had to pick between them who do you take?

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04-28-2010, 09:33 PM
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Gotta go with Giacomin on this one. 5 straight Allstar Teams must put him in pretty elite company.

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04-28-2010, 10:59 PM
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Definitely Eddie.

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04-28-2010, 11:24 PM
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Like Tony Esposito, Giacomin's regular season record is too hard to ignore. Yet like Tony his playoff portfolio is underwhelming. Not Thornton-like, but I personally would have liked to see it better.

If there was an option on the poll for a draw I would take it. Vachon was amazing too. He won two Cups then another one as a back up. He was a 2nd team all-star twice, a Hart runner up once, and was amazing playing every game for the 1976 Canada Cup. Those Kings teams he was on were awful yet he led them to a 105 point season.

Giacomin deserves the HHOF and is one of those goalies similar to Worters and Rayner that you don't mind seeing in there without a Cup win. Vachon on the other hand is one of the worst omissions and oversights. I have yet to ever hear a legitimate argument as to why he isn't in there. Anyone want to try? I just have never heard one

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04-29-2010, 06:16 AM
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Charlie Hodge Factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Like Tony Esposito, Giacomin's regular season record is too hard to ignore. Yet like Tony his playoff portfolio is underwhelming. Not Thornton-like, but I personally would have liked to see it better.

If there was an option on the poll for a draw I would take it. Vachon was amazing too. He won two Cups then another one as a back up. He was a 2nd team all-star twice, a Hart runner up once, and was amazing playing every game for the 1976 Canada Cup. Those Kings teams he was on were awful yet he led them to a 105 point season.

Giacomin deserves the HHOF and is one of those goalies similar to Worters and Rayner that you don't mind seeing in there without a Cup win. Vachon on the other hand is one of the worst omissions and oversights. I have yet to ever hear a legitimate argument as to why he isn't in there. Anyone want to try? I just have never heard one
Charlie Hodge factor - given opportunities with the Canadiens he never claimed the number one job, especially during the 1969/70 and 1970/71 seasons, similar to Charlie Hodge after the Plante / Worsley trade and Worsley's injury and like Hodge who was not protected during the 1967 expansion draft he was moved to the Kings after Ken Dryden quickly established himself as the undisputed #1 in 1971.

The Kings era and the 1976 Canada Cup. Rogie Vachon could be great for a short stretch of time. Playing European teams that did not screen or crash the net allowed him to use his great reflexes but because he was on the smallish side he would wear down just like Charlie Hodge would. As the season progressed he would decline.

Comparables - Worters, Rayner. Some similarities - weak teams but Rayner took the 1950 Rangers to a SCF - 7th game OT loss. Which brings other comparables into focus. Harry Lumley - Rayner's opposing goalie in 1950. Led Detroit to the SC after Gordie Howe went down with a skull fracture in game one of the semis against Toronto. Incredible 3-4 season stretch with a weak Toronto team between 1953 and 1956. Al Rollins who was traded to Chicago by Toronto for Lumley. Had a couple of great seasons with Chicago after failing to capture the Toronto #1 job when Broda retired.Conversely Worters was outstanding for most of his twelve seasons playing for teams that made the playoffs only 4 times. During the playoffs he was even better:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...wortero01.html

Bringing the comparables back to Vachon. His career work tends more to the Hodge or Rollins path, outstanding spurts, than the Lumley, Rayner, Worters which have greater longevity.

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04-29-2010, 07:06 AM
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Giacomin takes it on peak value. His 5-year regular-season peak is one of the best in the history of the NHL - 2 retro-Vezinas/First-Team All-Star selections, 3 Second-Team All-Star selections. Easily outdoes Vachon's similar 5-year peak with LA.

Having said that, Vachon's Cup ring and '76 Canada Cup performance equal it up a fair bit, and if you remove the 5-year peak from each player the rest of Vachon's career was a little better.

In the end probably a slight edge to Giacomin.

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04-29-2010, 08:52 AM
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Thanks guys for your responses. Me and my brother are working on a project and we have space for 1 more goalie. We've decided between Vachon/Giacomin so we'll let this thread ride for a few days before we make our final decision. Thanks again.

How do you guys see Giacomin winning 2 retro vezina's???

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04-29-2010, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Giacomin deserves the HHOF and is one of those goalies similar to Worters and Rayner that you don't mind seeing in there without a Cup win. Vachon on the other hand is one of the worst omissions and oversights. I have yet to ever hear a legitimate argument as to why he isn't in there. Anyone want to try? I just have never heard one
Personally, I think Vachon was better than Cheevers who played at the exact same time and is in the Hall. Being well liked by the right people gets you far sometimes.

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04-29-2010, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Like Tony Esposito, Giacomin's regular season record is too hard to ignore. Yet like Tony his playoff portfolio is underwhelming. Not Thornton-like, but I personally would have liked to see it better.

If there was an option on the poll for a draw I would take it. Vachon was amazing too. He won two Cups then another one as a back up. He was a 2nd team all-star twice, a Hart runner up once, and was amazing playing every game for the 1976 Canada Cup. Those Kings teams he was on were awful yet he led them to a 105 point season.
Don't forget that Rogie also finished third in Hart Trophy voting in 1977.

Vachon was the only goalie in the 70's to post two top-three Hart Trophy finishes. Not bad when you consider who didn't ... Dryden, Parent, Esposito, Giacomin etc ...

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04-29-2010, 01:36 PM
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I like both goalies but I have to side with Rogie on this one. Can't quite understand the post where they mention that Rogie tended to wear down. His games played totals in the 70's were up there.

A few Cups, was fifth on all time wins at the time of his retirement. 50+ shutouts. The Canada Cup performance in '76. A Vezina. And those teams he played with in LA weren't that great but he had some great years.

Eddie had a bit more of a supporting cast than Rogie. He also had a pretty steller back up in Gilles Villumere.

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04-29-2010, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens Fan View Post
Don't forget that Rogie also finished third in Hart Trophy voting in 1977.

Vachon was the only goalie in the 70's to post two top-three Hart Trophy finishes. Not bad when you consider who didn't ... Dryden, Parent, Esposito, Giacomin etc ...
Parent was 2nd and 4th... practically the same thing.

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04-29-2010, 11:23 PM
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Parent was 2nd and 4th... practically the same thing.
Ironically, in the year that Parent finished fourth in Hart voting, Vachon finished second. Says a lot about the season Vachon had, all things considered.

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04-30-2010, 12:00 AM
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Ironically, in the year that Parent finished fourth in Hart voting, Vachon finished second. Says a lot about the season Vachon had, all things considered.
I see it as more consideration towards value to team, than who was the better goalie (that was what the first all-star team was for)

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05-01-2010, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Charlie Hodge factor - given opportunities with the Canadiens he never claimed the number one job, especially during the 1969/70 and 1970/71 seasons, similar to Charlie Hodge after the Plante / Worsley trade and Worsley's injury and like Hodge who was not protected during the 1967 expansion draft he was moved to the Kings after Ken Dryden quickly established himself as the undisputed #1 in 1971.

The Kings era and the 1976 Canada Cup. Rogie Vachon could be great for a short stretch of time. Playing European teams that did not screen or crash the net allowed him to use his great reflexes but because he was on the smallish side he would wear down just like Charlie Hodge would. As the season progressed he would decline.

Comparables - Worters, Rayner. Some similarities - weak teams but Rayner took the 1950 Rangers to a SCF - 7th game OT loss. Which brings other comparables into focus. Harry Lumley - Rayner's opposing goalie in 1950. Led Detroit to the SC after Gordie Howe went down with a skull fracture in game one of the semis against Toronto. Incredible 3-4 season stretch with a weak Toronto team between 1953 and 1956. Al Rollins who was traded to Chicago by Toronto for Lumley. Had a couple of great seasons with Chicago after failing to capture the Toronto #1 job when Broda retired.Conversely Worters was outstanding for most of his twelve seasons playing for teams that made the playoffs only 4 times. During the playoffs he was even better:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...wortero01.html

Bringing the comparables back to Vachon. His career work tends more to the Hodge or Rollins path, outstanding spurts, than the Lumley, Rayner, Worters which have greater longevity.
I tend to disagree with that. I think it's a disservice to call Vachon's career comparable to Hodge or Rollins. Remember, while Dryden called the shots in the 1971 playoffs it was Vachon who played the majority of the 1969 playoffs and a bit of the 1968 playoffs. Look at the goalies he competed with on his own team as well. Worsley was sharing net duties with him and then it was eventually Dryden that bumped him out. Two HHOF goalies. It isn't exactly Allan Bester.

I think he's above Rayner for sure and I'll agree he's below Lumley but that right there lands him as a HHOFer. I don't see a great argument for Rayner > Vachon in there. Or Worters for that matter

Honestly, look at the roster of that 1975 Kings team. Dionne wasn't there yet, they had Goring as their best player by far. Bob Nevin led them with 72 points. How in the world did they get 105 points as a team? Vachon.

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05-01-2010, 04:54 AM
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The Numbers

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I tend to disagree with that. I think it's a disservice to call Vachon's career comparable to Hodge or Rollins. Remember, while Dryden called the shots in the 1971 playoffs it was Vachon who played the majority of the 1969 playoffs and a bit of the 1968 playoffs. Look at the goalies he competed with on his own team as well. Worsley was sharing net duties with him and then it was eventually Dryden that bumped him out. Two HHOF goalies. It isn't exactly Allan Bester.

I think he's above Rayner for sure and I'll agree he's below Lumley but that right there lands him as a HHOFer. I don't see a great argument for Rayner > Vachon in there. Or Worters for that matter

Honestly, look at the roster of that 1975 Kings team. Dionne wasn't there yet, they had Goring as their best player by far. Bob Nevin led them with 72 points. How in the world did they get 105 points as a team? Vachon.
1975 Kings. Gary Edwards says hi - 15W 3L 8T = 38 points, Vachon only played 2/3 of the games. Kept him from wearing down. Vachon was far from responsible for all the 105 points. Based on per game performance, Edwards was more productive.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/LAK/1975.html

1949/50 Chuck Rayner played 69/70 games, goalie credited with all the Rangers points, taking the Rangers to within an overtime goal in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup, supported by bottom tier HHOFers like Stanley, O'Connor, Laprade.

1930-31 Roy Worters led the league with a 1.66 GAA on a non-playoff team and most seasons had a GAA better than HHOFers
like Benedict, Gardiner and others.

Back to Rogie Vachon - 1969-70 & 1970-71 his regular season performance with a veteran Canadiens team was so-so leading to the arrival of Ken Dryden. He was never able to establish himself as the true #1 post Worsley / pre Dryden.

Other than his 1976 Canada Cup, Vachon has the cups with the Canadiens although his contribution barely approached Chris Osgoode levels and some very good years. Not quite Worters or Rayner.

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05-01-2010, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
1975 Kings. Gary Edwards says hi - 15W 3L 8T = 38 points, Vachon only played 2/3 of the games. Kept him from wearing down. Vachon was far from responsible for all the 105 points. Based on per game performance, Edwards was more productive.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/LAK/1975.html

1949/50 Chuck Rayner played 69/70 games, goalie credited with all the Rangers points, taking the Rangers to within an overtime goal in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup, supported by bottom tier HHOFers like Stanley, O'Connor, Laprade.

1930-31 Roy Worters led the league with a 1.66 GAA on a non-playoff team and most seasons had a GAA better than HHOFers
like Benedict, Gardiner and others.

Back to Rogie Vachon - 1969-70 & 1970-71 his regular season performance with a veteran Canadiens team was so-so leading to the arrival of Ken Dryden. He was never able to establish himself as the true #1 post Worsley / pre Dryden.

Other than his 1976 Canada Cup, Vachon has the cups with the Canadiens although his contribution barely approached Chris Osgoode levels and some very good years. Not quite Worters or Rayner.
Oh I knew about Edwards record. Hockeyreference.com is my tool of choice as well

But there were years that Larocque had a better winning % than Dryden despite playing in no more than half the games. Are we to assume Larocque over the long haul would have put up better numbers or should we assume that he faced the Atlanta Flames and Kansas City Scouts of the NHL while Dryden played the Flyers and Bruins and Islanders and Sabres. Personally, it's the #2 choice for me. And the Hart Trophy voting in 1975 tells otherwise for Vachon considering he was 2nd.

I have heard the Osgood comparison to Vachon before. On paper you might think that and I can understand that. After all they both won three Cups (two as a starter for Osgood and one for Vachon with some time in another Cup win) and both won a lot of games and were 2nd team all-stars (Vachon twice, Osgood once).

The difference is Vachon was 2nd in Hart voting. He did well on good teams and he did much better on bad teams. We saw what Vachon could do with no talent around them. He helped turn them into a 105 team. Osgood proved to not be that prolific with the Islanders, we saw what he did on average teams. On a below average team Vachon almost won the Hart.

Plus when Canada came calling Vachon was there. Osgood was never even close to being named on a World Cup/Olympic team for Canada not even in his best season in 1996. That's telling IMO. I respect Worters for sure, a HHOFer, but on bad teams did he ever carry them the way Vachon did?

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05-01-2010, 02:22 PM
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Roy Worters

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Oh I knew about Edwards record. Hockeyreference.com is my tool of choice as well

But there were years that Larocque had a better winning % than Dryden despite playing in no more than half the games. Are we to assume Larocque over the long haul would have put up better numbers or should we assume that he faced the Atlanta Flames and Kansas City Scouts of the NHL while Dryden played the Flyers and Bruins and Islanders and Sabres. Personally, it's the #2 choice for me. And the Hart Trophy voting in 1975 tells otherwise for Vachon considering he was 2nd.

I have heard the Osgood comparison to Vachon before. On paper you might think that and I can understand that. After all they both won three Cups (two as a starter for Osgood and one for Vachon with some time in another Cup win) and both won a lot of games and were 2nd team all-stars (Vachon twice, Osgood once).

The difference is Vachon was 2nd in Hart voting. He did well on good teams and he did much better on bad teams. We saw what Vachon could do with no talent around them. He helped turn them into a 105 team. Osgood proved to not be that prolific with the Islanders, we saw what he did on average teams. On a below average team Vachon almost won the Hart.

Plus when Canada came calling Vachon was there. Osgood was never even close to being named on a World Cup/Olympic team for Canada not even in his best season in 1996. That's telling IMO. I respect Worters for sure, a HHOFer, but on bad teams did he ever carry them the way Vachon did?
Roy Worters' Hart record is more impressive - winning the Hart in 1929 plus 2nd place in 1928 and 4th and 5th in the early 1930's on very weak Pittsburgh and Americans teams.Vachon's Hart record pales significantly.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=145895&page=5

As for Vachon - the 1969-70 season with the Canadiens is revealing.
64 games played : 31W 18L 12T, 3 ND but in the last 17 starts he was a .500 goalie - 7W 7L 3 T,~.909 SV%(HS project). When the same fade repeated toward the end of the 1970-71 season the Canadiens went with Ken Dryden.

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05-01-2010, 03:58 PM
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Roy Worters' Hart record is more impressive - winning the Hart in 1929 plus 2nd place in 1928 and 4th and 5th in the early 1930's on very weak Pittsburgh and Americans teams.Vachon's Hart record pales significantly.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=145895&page=5

As for Vachon - the 1969-70 season with the Canadiens is revealing.
64 games played : 31W 18L 12T, 3 ND but in the last 17 starts he was a .500 goalie - 7W 7L 3 T,~.909 SV%(HS project). When the same fade repeated toward the end of the 1970-71 season the Canadiens went with Ken Dryden.
I think you can take any Hall of Famer and find a window of a year or two where he played satisfactory. In this case we are doing it to Vachon who is a POTENTIAL HHOFer. If Worters has the better Hart voting record (and yeah I put a lot of stock into that to, remember I agree with Worters as a HHOFer) I think the difference is made up in the Cup wins and the Canada Cup for Vachon. Plus he had a very good peak (1973-'78) that I believe earns him a spot. Plus there are 3 years where Vachon led the playoffs in GAA (it would surprise people that 1967 was one of them). What else did he need to do really?

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05-01-2010, 04:30 PM
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I think you can take any Hall of Famer and find a window of a year or two where he played satisfactory. In this case we are doing it to Vachon who is a POTENTIAL HHOFer. If Worters has the better Hart voting record (and yeah I put a lot of stock into that to, remember I agree with Worters as a HHOFer) I think the difference is made up in the Cup wins and the Canada Cup for Vachon. Plus he had a very good peak (1973-'78) that I believe earns him a spot. Plus there are 3 years where Vachon led the playoffs in GAA (it would surprise people that 1967 was one of them). What else did he need to do really?
If you look at the HHOF goaltenders - 35 in total, you will find 7 or 20% that were Vachon's contemporaries (Cheevers, Ken Dryden, T.Esposito,Giacomin,Parent, Billy Smith, Tretiak).Cheevers and Giacomin would be the two weakest members from the group.Cheevers getting the edge because he was on two SC winners.

If you consider Giacomin to be ahead of Vachon then your next comparables would be Gilles Meloche, Roger Crozier,perhaps Dan Bouchard. Far from sold on the idea that Rogie Vachon was better than Meloche and Crozier.

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05-01-2010, 04:39 PM
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If you look at the HHOF goaltenders - 35 in total, you will find 7 or 20% that were Vachon's contemporaries (Cheevers, Ken Dryden, T.Esposito,Giacomin,Parent, Billy Smith, Tretiak).Cheevers and Giacomin would be the two weakest members from the group.Cheevers getting the edge because he was on two SC winners.
I think there was a post on here that claimed he thought Vachon was above Cheevers. I would think it would be certainly close in my mind. Not outlandish to put Vachon ahead of cheesy.

Quote:
If you consider Giacomin to be ahead of Vachon then your next comparables would be Gilles Meloche, Roger Crozier,perhaps Dan Bouchard. Far from sold on the idea that Rogie Vachon was better than Meloche and Crozier.
Really? Wow, you really bump Vachon down a notch for some reason. I mean we're getting into extremely average territory for a goalie's career. Bouchard won two playoff series in his life. Never an all-star, never even played in the ALL-STAR game to boot which is tiddly winks on this board. Was a steady goalie, that's about it. Meloche lost a ton of games and is Dan Bouchard with a longer career. Crozier is interesting but he has two years where he was great, that's it. It is 1965 and 1966. He has a Conn Smythe (no Cup) and a First team all-star. But was never fully established after that. At best, Crozier is in Bill Ranford's category. Vachon should never be lumped with any of those guys.

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05-01-2010, 04:56 PM
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Comparables

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I think there was a post on here that claimed he thought Vachon was above Cheevers. I would think it would be certainly close in my mind. Not outlandish to put Vachon ahead of cheesy.



Really? Wow, you really bump Vachon down a notch for some reason. I mean we're getting into extremely average territory for a goalie's career. Bouchard won two playoff series in his life. Never an all-star, never even played in the ALL-STAR game to boot which is tiddly winks on this board. Was a steady goalie, that's about it. Meloche lost a ton of games and is Dan Bouchard with a longer career. Crozier is interesting but he has two years where he was great, that's it. It is 1965 and 1966. He has a Conn Smythe (no Cup) and a First team all-star. But was never fully established after that. At best, Crozier is in Bill Ranford's category. Vachon should never be lumped with any of those guys.
You voted Giacomin ahead of Vachon in this thread. Cheevers vs Giacomin - your call. I'd take Cheevers, more reliable.

Crozier - never healthy after his first two seasons, still reliable when he played. Meloche played for the Seals and bad North Stars but has a winning playoff record something Vachon does not inspite of a 14-5 bump from his Canadiens days.

Bouchard never impressed me but with an expansion Atlanta team his numbers for the fewer games he played per year are in Vachon's range.

You might have a case for Vachon if you could sneak him into the top 5 amongst his NHL contemporaries but that is a reach.

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05-02-2010, 01:25 AM
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I respect Worters for sure, a HHOFer, but on bad teams did he ever carry them the way Vachon did?
I'd say moreso. Those Pittsburgh teams Worters played for were a joke, yet he carried them to the playoffs in 1927-28 with a slightly better than .500 record. Pittsburgh was one of the stingier teams in the league in terms of goals allowed. Meanwhile, the NY Americans were a cellar dweller and had an abysmal total of goals scored against them.

Worters moved to said Americans for the 1928-29 season. Suddenly the Amerks shot up to second place in their division and their goals against was well below the league average. The now Worters-less Pirates sunk to a pitiful 9-27-8 record and allowed the second most goals against in the league. Neither team's roster saw any significant changes besides Worters.

Both the '28 Pirates and '29 Amerks provided pathetic offensive support for their goaltender, yet both found themselves of respecable standing and in the playoffs. In the '29 playoffs Worters surrendered just one measley goal. Alas, his own team failed to match that total, and the Amerks were eliminated from the two game total goal playoff by virtue of a 0-0 tie and a 1-0 OT loss.

Worters continued to toil for the lousy Americans for several more years, once missing the playoffs in a year in which he allowed the fewest goals against in the league.

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05-02-2010, 01:59 AM
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You voted Giacomin ahead of Vachon in this thread. Cheevers vs Giacomin - your call. I'd take Cheevers, more reliable.

Crozier - never healthy after his first two seasons, still reliable when he played. Meloche played for the Seals and bad North Stars but has a winning playoff record something Vachon does not inspite of a 14-5 bump from his Canadiens days.

Bouchard never impressed me but with an expansion Atlanta team his numbers for the fewer games he played per year are in Vachon's range.

You might have a case for Vachon if you could sneak him into the top 5 amongst his NHL contemporaries but that is a reach.
Giacomin > Vachon > Cheevers IMO. Although I will say that it is close. All three deserve the HHOF yet only 2/3 are in there. Cheevers was a reliable goalie, but keep in mind while his first Cup was all him in 1970 the 2nd one was shared equally with Johnston who won as many games. Just saying. I do like him in there though, he WAS reliable in important games and was in net for two other finals appearances later in the decade.

The only thing that bothers me about Cheevers is that he never dominated much in the regular season, playing 40-45 games for the most part. And I believe he is the only goalie in the HHOF to not have a year end all-star selection since it was implemented in the 1930-'31 season which is something you can't say about Vachon. Overall he has a surprisingly underwhelming career and is likely at the bottom of the totem pole as far as goalies in the HHOF. Vachon is the best to not be in there IMO.

Giacomin might have a below average regular season but he was too utterly dominant in the regular season to ignore and put below Cheevers IMO

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05-02-2010, 04:36 AM
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Cheevers vs Giacomin

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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Giacomin > Vachon > Cheevers IMO. Although I will say that it is close. All three deserve the HHOF yet only 2/3 are in there. Cheevers was a reliable goalie, but keep in mind while his first Cup was all him in 1970 the 2nd one was shared equally with Johnston who won as many games. Just saying. I do like him in there though, he WAS reliable in important games and was in net for two other finals appearances later in the decade.

The only thing that bothers me about Cheevers is that he never dominated much in the regular season, playing 40-45 games for the most part. And I believe he is the only goalie in the HHOF to not have a year end all-star selection since it was implemented in the 1930-'31 season which is something you can't say about Vachon. Overall he has a surprisingly underwhelming career and is likely at the bottom of the totem pole as far as goalies in the HHOF. Vachon is the best to not be in there IMO.

Giacomin might have a below average regular season but he was too utterly dominant in the regular season to ignore and put below Cheevers IMO
Giacomin had a stretch of four seasons where he played upwards of 70 games between 1967 and 1970, then drifted down to the Cheevers range in games played during the regular season sharing time with Gilles Villemure. Giacomin's playoff record was < .500 (29 -35) for his career with the Rangers.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...giacoed01.html

Cheevers usually played the majority of the Bruins regular season games, fewer than Giacomin with the Rangers but saw increased playoff action with strong results, 19 games > .500.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...cheevge01.html

Given the significant difference in playoff results including two SCs, Cheevers > Giacomin by a good margin.

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05-02-2010, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Cheevers usually played the majority of the Bruins regular season games, fewer than Giacomin with the Rangers but saw increased playoff action with strong results, 19 games > .500.
In the 1970 playoffs Cheevers was a plus 11 > .500. But if we take out that one season, in the other ten years he appeared in the playoffs with the Bruins he is only 8 games > .500. And for what it's worth he is five games under .500 in his WHA playoff career.

To be fair, Cheevers and Johnson split the Bruins goaltending duties in 1970, 71, and 72 (Cheevers played only seven more games in the Boston net over that three-year span), something which should be factored in to this discussion.

Also Cheevers' playoff results were not as strong as you would suggest. He was full value in 1970, but clearly under performed in 1971 and one could argue wasn't even the best goalie on his team in the 1972 playoffs

Perhaps his numbers and reputation have more to do with the team in front of him ??

1971-72 Boston Bruins Goalies regular season

Cheevers - 27 wins, 5 losses, 8 ties, 2.50 gaa
Johnson - 27 wins, 8 losses, 3 ties, 2.71 gaa

1971-72 Boston Bruins Goalies playoffs

Cheevers - 8 games, 6 wins, 2 losses, 2.61 gaa
Johnson - 7 games, 6 wins, 1 loss, 1.86 gaa

Another important factor to consider in Cheevers' playoff success is that the Bruins were able to average 3.77 goals per game in each of his appearances over the course of his career. As for Vachon, in his years with the Kings, he only was able to enjoy the luxury of 2.43 goals per playoff game. Obviously Cheevers reaped the benefits of the team in front of him.


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