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Old
04-29-2010, 09:12 AM
  #1
ryno23
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Chi-tor

Chicago is going to have to make some moves this summer to clear cap space. I think this deal will keep them competitive and help out the Leafs at the same time. This is an old fashion hockey trade which we do not see too much, but with a cap space clearing twist to it.

Chi
Brian Campbell 7.140 6yrs left on his deal
Patrick Sharp 3.9

Tor
Kaberle 4.25
Grabvoski 2.9


Why do the Hawks do it? They get Kaberle to replace Campbell which is a wash and they do lose a bit in Garbo vs Sharp but how much really? But the big thing is they get 3.85 in cap space for 10/11.

Why do the Leafs do it? Campbell replaces Kaberle and Sharp is an upgrade for Garbo.

Now some people will say your taking on Campbell contract but he is 30 yrs old with 6 years left. I think he will still be effective at 36yrs old.

People will say Chicago loses in this deal but its the cap space they really need to have and getting Kaberle and Garbo keeps them competitive for the next couple of years.

I think Kaberle could sign an extension with the Hawks once he plays there it may not be the east but its close enough and they are a winning organization with tons of young talent.

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Old
04-29-2010, 09:22 AM
  #2
seanlinden
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Leafs can't do it. They'd have to bury Campbell in the minors in order to ever become competitive and at that point you just traded Kaberle + Grabovski for a 60 point winger and the privilge of paying $7million in the minors.

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Old
04-29-2010, 09:25 AM
  #3
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even though campbell and kaberle are both offensive puck moving type dmen....kaberle is not a good fit to replace campbell on teh hawks...because they are different types of puck movers.....campbell is a skating puck possesion type puck mover....where kabs is a passing puck mover.....our team is built around the skating and puck possesion....so kabs would not fit in as campbells replacement....so this deal would not work for chicago....also chicago wants nothing at all to do with grabo...hes nort needed....grabo needs to go to a team that is lacking offense an dspeed upfront

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04-29-2010, 09:30 AM
  #4
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i think the leafs would have to get more back, theyd be doing the hawks a hell of a favour by taking campbells contract

he's a good player, and would most certainly help the leafs out, but 7.1 million/year for a number 2 dman is a lot

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04-29-2010, 09:35 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xicethug13x View Post
even though campbell and kaberle are both offensive puck moving type dmen....kaberle is not a good fit to replace campbell on teh hawks...because they are different types of puck movers.....campbell is a skating puck possesion type puck mover....where kabs is a passing puck mover.....our team is built around the skating and puck possesion....so kabs would not fit in as campbells replacement....so this deal would not work for chicago....also chicago wants nothing at all to do with grabo...hes nort needed....grabo needs to go to a team that is lacking offense an dspeed upfront
actually Kabs is quite capable at moveing with the puck, maybe better then his outlet passing. It's his calm demeanour and puck handling that make him effective at moving the puck safely out of the zone.

From what I've seen, Campbell seems to be faster at skateing with the puck then most PMD's.

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04-29-2010, 09:42 AM
  #6
PlietscherDassel
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This is with a lil and a lot of

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Old
04-29-2010, 09:44 AM
  #7
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As a Leafs fans, I would absolutely pass on that particular deal. Without a second of hesitation.

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Old
04-29-2010, 09:47 AM
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This isn't any good for the Leafs. They can't afford Campbell.

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04-29-2010, 10:12 AM
  #9
gabeliscious
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leafs dont trade kabs for another defenseman, especially one that costs double for the same skill set.

if this was the best the leafs could get they would be better off extending kabs at $5 million and dangle another ntc for him to take the discount and trade grabs for a random pick to free up the cap space.

sharp would be a nice addition to the leafs but not at this cost.

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04-29-2010, 10:14 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
leafs dont trade kabs for another defenseman, especially one that costs double for the same skill set.

if this was the best the leafs could get they would be better off extending kabs at $5 million and dangle another ntc for him to take the discount and trade grabs for a random pick to free up the cap space.

sharp would be a nice addition to the leafs but not at this cost.
agreed, its an albatross of a contract...the only way the leafs do this is if chicago throws in a first or something and we send them finger who they could buy out.

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04-29-2010, 10:18 AM
  #11
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Hawks pass

Campbell is important part of our team and Grabovski is a cancer and I dont want him anywhere near young Hawks team

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:26 AM
  #12
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I don't want Cambell and his Ludacris contract.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:32 AM
  #13
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
Chicago is going to have to make some moves this summer to clear cap space. I think this deal will keep them competitive and help out the Leafs at the same time. This is an old fashion hockey trade which we do not see too much, but with a cap space clearing twist to it.

Chi
Brian Campbell 7.140 6yrs left on his deal
Patrick Sharp 3.9

Tor
Kaberle 4.25
Grabvoski 2.9


Why do the Hawks do it? They get Kaberle to replace Campbell which is a wash and they do lose a bit in Garbo vs Sharp but how much really? But the big thing is they get 3.85 in cap space for 10/11.

Why do the Leafs do it? Campbell replaces Kaberle and Sharp is an upgrade for Garbo.

Now some people will say your taking on Campbell contract but he is 30 yrs old with 6 years left. I think he will still be effective at 36yrs old.

People will say Chicago loses in this deal but its the cap space they really need to have and getting Kaberle and Garbo keeps them competitive for the next couple of years.

I think Kaberle could sign an extension with the Hawks once he plays there it may not be the east but its close enough and they are a winning organization with tons of young talent.
Chicago would definitely need to send more with Campbell to convince the Leafs to take his contract. They're upgrading their defense with Kaberle, and shedding cap... Toronto's replacing a 50 point forward with a 60 point one who only really blossomed offensively when Toews and Kane came on the team. Granted, Sharp has the defensive game that Grabo doesn't, but it's not worth the money the Leafs are taking on, plus the downgrade defensively.

Kaberle for Campbell+Beach would be the starting point from the Leafs perspective, though I doubt Chicago wants that.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:33 AM
  #14
glucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks pass

Campbell is important part of our team and Grabovski is a cancer and I dont want him anywhere near young Hawks team
Campbell may be important to you, but Kaberle will be even more important. And Grabovski is not a cancer by any means, unless you consider getting pissed at Blake being a cancer

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:35 AM
  #15
grabo84
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks pass

Campbell is important part of our team and Grabovski is a cancer and I dont want him anywhere near young Hawks team
This makes no sense at all.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:40 AM
  #16
wej20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks pass

Campbell is important part of our team and Grabovski is a cancer and I dont want him anywhere near young Hawks team
even if Grabs is a cancer they should still do it and just move Grabovski on. It would basically solve they're cap problems.

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Old
04-29-2010, 10:47 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akiberg8 View Post
agreed, its an albatross of a contract...the only way the leafs do this is if chicago throws in a first or something and we send them finger who they could buy out.
Wait... you really expect CHI to add a first, AND take on Finger's horrid contract for you!? Heck, even if they were ok with this (they wouldnt be), they'd have his buyout weighing on their cap. The whole point of the deal for the Hawks is to fix their cap issues. Taking on a salary dump goes against the whole point of the deal. AND you expect them to give you a first!? hahahahaha Buy out Finger yourself. You guys are stuck with that contract, unless you take on an even worse one.

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04-29-2010, 10:50 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueShirtss View Post
I don't want Cambell and his Ludacris contract.
Campbell's contract is a recording artist?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glucker View Post
Kaberle for Campbell+Beach would be the starting point from the Leafs perspective, though I doubt Chicago wants that.
Ditto.

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Old
04-29-2010, 11:13 AM
  #19
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beach isnt enough to take on campbells contract. would love beach but $7 million for the next 6 years is crazy. taking on that salary would hangcuff us for years and years and potentially jeopardize us signing other players as a result of limited cap space.

regarding grabs being a cancer.....can you elaborate, provide a link, hearsay, anything to back up that claim? thats about as legit a comment as me saying we wouldnt want kane anywhere near the leafs young guys cause he is a criminal and has poor moral fiber. if you dont have an interest in a player thats fine but but to call him a cancer is pretty fricken harsh imo. from every report i have ever heard, grabs is well liked by toronto management. even with his shenanigans at the olympics burke basically brushed it off as hes an idiot. and as for grabs altercation in practice with blake, im pretty sure wilson praised him for it and made a comment along the lines of he wouldnt be surprised if we saw more similar situations in leafs practices cause he is working them very hard and trying to get them to show emotion.

bottom line, if grabs was a cancer burke would make him disappear. seeing as he is still a leaf one could conclude grabs personality is not an issue for the leafs

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Old
04-29-2010, 11:30 AM
  #20
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Another instance of a (somewhat) overpaid player getting underrated and the quality of his contract being over-emphasized. But I probably forget how the Ducks simply had to throw in Bobby Ryan and a first round pick to "get rid of" Schneider and Giguere. This is not meant as a shot against Leafs fans only, it's a problem that is ubiquitous on HF.

Brian Campbell is a good player and he's overpaid by $1.6 to $2.1 mio. If having that contract on a team meant not being able to sign guys like Komisarek or Finger to the deals they got, that would be a good thing. (Okay, I admit that was a but of a cheap shot, but it's just for fun. )

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04-29-2010, 11:44 AM
  #21
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Another instance of a (somewhat) overpaid player getting underrated and the quality of his contract being over-emphasized. But I probably forget how the Ducks simply had to throw in Bobby Ryan and a first round pick to "get rid of" Schneider and Giguere. This is not meant as a shot against Leafs fans only, it's a problem that is ubiquitous on HF.

Brian Campbell is a good player and he's overpaid by $1.6 to $2.1 mio. If having that contract on a team meant not being able to sign guys like Komisarek or Finger to the deals they got, that would be a good thing. (Okay, I admit that was a but of a cheap shot, but it's just for fun. )
No, but they had to take two salary dumps in return. I think the real value point is somewhere in between with most of these players - cap liabilities are exaggerated around here, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a huge factor in trade.

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04-29-2010, 11:48 AM
  #22
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Brian Campbell is a better player than Tomas Kaberle, but the Leafs already have enough salary tied up in DMen (Komisarek 4.5M, Beauchemin 3.8M, Finger 3.5M, Phaneuf 6.5M, plus raises to Gunnarson and Schenn next season).

There is just no way the Leafs can take on that salary on the backend. Sharp would be a perfect fit for them if you wanted to unload him. I would say something like Stalberg, Pens 2010 2nd rounder, Leafs 2011 2nd/3rd rounder could get that done.

Hawks take on minimal salary, plus stock pile some picks. Leafs get a good two-way forward capable of playing all three spots.

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04-29-2010, 11:53 AM
  #23
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Brian Campbell is a better player than Tomas Kaberle, but the Leafs already have enough salary tied up in DMen (Komisarek 4.5M, Beauchemin 3.8M, Finger 3.5M, Phaneuf 6.5M, plus raises to Gunnarson and Schenn next season).

There is just no way the Leafs can take on that salary on the backend. Sharp would be a perfect fit for them if you wanted to unload him. I would say something like Stalberg, Pens 2010 2nd rounder, Leafs 2011 2nd/3rd rounder could get that done.

Hawks take on minimal salary, plus stock pile some picks. Leafs get a good two-way forward capable of playing all three spots.
Leafs don't have Pens 2nd Rounder.

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04-29-2010, 12:04 PM
  #24
Vipers31
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No, but they had to take two salary dumps in return. I think the real value point is somewhere in between with most of these players - cap liabilities are exaggerated around here, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a huge factor in trade.
Oh, I completely understand that money is a key issue in every trade made under the cap. It's pretty fascinating to find out how equal the numbers actually match up in most of the trades. However, I do stand by the point that around here and probably in the entire hockeysphere widely acknowledged bad contracts result in the player ending up underrated and the decrease in value due to those contracts being overstated. I understand the (multiple) levels of money being a factor, but too many comments get away from these issues and focus on what it would take to have a team deal with a contract like Campbell's. That's where it tends to get out of hand and out of touch with reality. Nothing wrong with saying "Leafs can't do it" - lot of wrong with saying "add Beach+ to get us thinking about taking him".

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Old
04-29-2010, 12:24 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Oh, I completely understand that money is a key issue in every trade made under the cap. It's pretty fascinating to find out how equal the numbers actually match up in most of the trades. However, I do stand by the point that around here and probably in the entire hockeysphere widely acknowledged bad contracts result in the player ending up underrated and the decrease in value due to those contracts being overstated. I understand the (multiple) levels of money being a factor, but too many comments get away from these issues and focus on what it would take to have a team deal with a contract like Campbell's. That's where it tends to get out of hand and out of touch with reality. Nothing wrong with saying "Leafs can't do it" - lot of wrong with saying "add Beach+ to get us thinking about taking him".
This is true. I think if a team needs a puck moving D, they can see their way to paying for Campbell. It's a similar situation to Gomez last year.

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