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Bright future for Hockey in the Sunshine state

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Old
05-11-2004, 12:27 AM
  #26
Crossbar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
It's all about winning. Florida fans support winners, but when the going gets tough...people in Florida find other things to do. Ask the Heat and Dolphins, and even ask the Panthers. When they were hot in 96-97 they were very popular, but havent been all that succesful since.

These teams will need to keep winning to keep the fans coming. That can be said for alot of teams, but I think its even more important in the non-traditional hockey regions of the U.S.
Nicely said Higgy4 cause thats exactly how it is here.

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05-11-2004, 12:51 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Wow, I disagree with a lot of posters I usually agree with, like Darth and Mac.

I think the future of these teams looks good, but there's nothing special there.

Right now, you can make a good case for 50% of the league as being potential risers. Than you have to account that the successful team often find ways to STAY successful.

It's not just about player development. Many posters at HF make the mistake of projecting 5-6 years ahead. Doesn't work that way in the NHL. The average NHL team tends to change a LOT in five years.
Excellent point and one I certainly agree with. There always seem to posts about how team X is going to be a "powerhouse" in a few years with all the great young talent they've been stockpiling and rarely do those predictions turn out to be true. Meanwhile teams like Detroit win year after year even though everyone continues to predict their decline.

Of all the teams in the Southeast only Tampa has yet broken out of the "up-and-coming" mold and managed to actually do something halfway decent. Sure Carolina and Washington both made the finals in the past few years but they were much different teams and since then both franchises have gone into major rebuild mode. I think Florida still has a long way to go as their core is extremely young. There's alot of uncertainty when dealing with younger teams. Players don't all develop the way their supposed to or at the pace they're expected to.

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05-11-2004, 12:53 AM
  #28
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IMO just Tampa being the Top Team in the East this season will force the Panthers, Thrashers, and Hurricanes (not including Capitals because they're just starting the rebuilding process) this offseason to put a much better product on the ice in order to contend with Tampa for the Southeast title. I'm not sure about Jim Rutherford but I know Don Waddell and Rick Dudley have always kept low budgets to prepare for any sort of upcoming Labor war for years that they've been GMing and now that its finally happened I expect that after the CBA gets settled that both franchises will finally spend to bring in more quality talent to add to their teams in the offseason (maybe including Tampa themselves since they said they were in the market to add more to the payroll at the March trade deadline).

I'm not sure if Tampa will be the dominating division champs of the Southeast ala Colorado and the Northwest division, but if Atlanta, Carolina, and Florida don't improve they probably will be.

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05-11-2004, 04:51 AM
  #29
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only time will tell really. predicting who is going to be good in a couple of years is futile, because you assume players will reach their potential, which does not happen all too often when you think of the sheer number of prospects compared to those who make it. BTN, you are wrong about Van Ryn though, he really turned it around this year, playing physical, and chipping in a couple goals offensively. he even lead the NHL in goals by defensemen at one point.

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05-11-2004, 06:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
Southeast won't be the strongest no way no how.Northeast and Northwest have a stranglehold on the best division.

I'm more worried about Atlanta then Florida actually...
I think you need to reconsider your position. Atlanta has Kovulchuk, Heatley and some great goaltending. Plus Hartley. Florida has Luongo. Tampa may lose some player to free agency, but will remain strong. Washington is about to get Ovechkin.

The new cba will restrict payroll and will restrict player movement to the traditional northeast hockey hotbeds plus the big 3 in the west, Detroit, Colorado, & Dallas. That will in turn turn more of a flow of quality free agent players to markets like the southeast division clubs. If Tampa, Fla, Atl, and Washington make the right player choices, they could all be contenders in fairly short order.

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Old
05-11-2004, 06:44 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbar
I'm not sure about Jim Rutherford but I know Don Waddell and Rick Dudley have always kept low budgets to prepare for any sort of upcoming Labor war for years that they've been GMing and now that its finally happened I expect that after the CBA gets settled that both franchises will finally spend to bring in more quality talent to add to their teams in the offseason (maybe including Tampa themselves since they said they were in the market to add more to the payroll at the March trade deadline).
I would not be expecting Tampa to be adding much to their current payroll. They are among the teams working hard for a $35m hard salary cap. They are at $35m right now, with Khabibulin's contract calling for a $2.5m raise, St. Louis, Stillman, Modin, and Kubina all restricted free agents. St. Louis isn't going to be a $1.5m player anymore. They could easily put $10m on their payroll if they are allowed to.

If the cap is $35m or there abouts, you will see subtraction from TB not adding.

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Old
05-11-2004, 09:18 AM
  #32
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They can't just institute a hard cap without some grandfathering of old contracts. Where would that leave teams who have $30 million+ tied up in 3-5 players?

Khabibulin's option is for $6.5, but people forget that he made $5.5 (roughly) this year because he had a bonus clause giving him $1 million just for making the playoffs. His raise is not that big of a stretch, certainly not $2.5 million.

Tampa has a ton of players who need new contracts this year, as do a lot of other teams. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

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Old
05-11-2004, 10:27 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sotnos
They can't just institute a hard cap without some grandfathering of old contracts. Where would that leave teams who have $30 million+ tied up in 3-5 players?

Khabibulin's option is for $6.5, but people forget that he made $5.5 (roughly) this year because he had a bonus clause giving him $1 million just for making the playoffs. His raise is not that big of a stretch, certainly not $2.5 million.

Tampa has a ton of players who need new contracts this year, as do a lot of other teams. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

I guess this is a little off track, but I sure hope that any chances that are institute in the CBA have a relatively limited impact on the NHL balance of power. I'd like to see teams (like Tampa, FLA, Buffalo, etc) who have built carefully rewarded for their efforts.

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Old
05-11-2004, 01:15 PM
  #34
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
If the cap is $35m or there abouts, you will see subtraction from TB not adding.
The chance that any form of cap will make it in the next CBA are probably as good as a coin toss.

The chance it will be a hard cap are very, very slim.

The chance it will be anywhere near $35M are sub-zero. If there is any cap, my guess is it will be in the neighborhood of $50M. And it will be a soft one.

Also, Sotnos is right. The cap, whatever it is, will very likely not force teams to substract players as all of this will be smoothly implemented with grandfathering clauses.

The owners missed the boat. The previous CBA was when and where they should have fought much harder.

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Old
05-11-2004, 06:39 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
The chance that any form of cap will make it in the next CBA are probably as good as a coin toss.

The chance it will be a hard cap are very, very slim.
the owners will have to concede something huge to the players, like the elimination of Restricted free agency in favour of all out UFA with maybe a franchise player clause. I would say that it would have to be standard 3-5 year contract when drafted, and once you have your 3 years in with the team that drafts you unrestricted free agency. They can't have it both ways because it would limit a player's ability to get market value too much. The owners should be all over this; the players might not like it as much, but at least they would have a little more say in where they could play.


Last edited by MacDaddy TLC*: 05-11-2004 at 07:15 PM.
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Old
05-11-2004, 07:02 PM
  #36
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDaddy Version 1.3
the owners will have to concede something huge to the players, like the elimination of Restricted free agencuy in favour of all out UFA with maybe a franchise player clause. I would say that it would have to be standard 3-5 year contract when drafted, and once you have your 3 years in with the team that drafts you unrestricted free agency. They can't have it both ways because it would limit a player's ability to get market value too much. The owners should be all over this; the players might not like it as much, but at least they would have a little more say in where they could play.
Your argument makes sense as to what the players desire but it remains a complete fallacy (I am not criticizing you but rather these dubious claims that players have used forever).

Even with a cap.

Even if Free agency was a concept that no longer existed at all.

Even if NHL frachises held the rights of their players forever, the players would still be in a totally free market.

They are free as air (all of them) and even if they could never be free agents, even if their rights were held forever, they would still be as free as you and me, with the full choice to decide what's best for them.

So the concessions that are done in this respect are only to play nice and let the players have their share of the pie. Unfortunately, this share is not disproportionate.

The owners and the league must wake up, realize that and proceed accordingly to stop the madness.

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Old
05-11-2004, 11:49 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
I think you need to reconsider your position. Atlanta has Kovulchuk, Heatley and some great goaltending. Plus Hartley. Florida has Luongo. Tampa may lose some player to free agency, but will remain strong. Washington is about to get Ovechkin.

The new cba will restrict payroll and will restrict player movement to the traditional northeast hockey hotbeds plus the big 3 in the west, Detroit, Colorado, & Dallas. That will in turn turn more of a flow of quality free agent players to markets like the southeast division clubs. If Tampa, Fla, Atl, and Washington make the right player choices, they could all be contenders in fairly short order.

There hasn't been one CBA option that both sides like.....there won't be a cap.My opinion is UFA and stuff stay the same with and just shared revenue for the whole league.

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