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Would you bring back Randy Hillier?

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Old
05-12-2004, 06:29 AM
  #26
The Tang
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
"yinzer", and people like me nobodies compared to you and Cheez?
Here's a question to the very, very unbiased moderators of our board, why is it that when posters on this board have a disagreement over a sports subject that get's just the slightest bit heated do you guys automatically close the thread and give the poster or posters a warning?
Or, why is it that when posters use harmless minor vulgarities do you moderators do the same?
But why is it that when a couple of posters constantly give a negative stereotype to a whole city of people or when they constantly make insulting comments about that city like the majority of people that reside there are trash, that those posters never get warned, thier threads deleted, or even suspended for a period of time?
1) i think us on the Pens board are pretty lenient when it comes to vulgarity and what not. i also dont think we close the threade at the first signs of an argument. i for one know i ask people to cool down some first before i take any action

2) i havent seen much of a stereotyping of a city, kutda's comments being the closest i've seen in a while. but then again, i havent been able to be around the past few weeks, so there may be stuff i missed.

3) there are guidelines the mods have to follow when it comes to warnings and bannings and all that other stuff. and trust me, the ones on this board have a lot fewer messes to clean up in comparison to some of the other boards, be they just heated conversations that get out of hand or constant trolling by members. if you want us to crack down on anything that can be percieved as an insult, we can, but the board will probably be a lot less fun.

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Old
05-12-2004, 07:26 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Zero
no no and no. not in any capacity. ive been saying for over a year he's a problem. it seems any d-man that comes over here plays worse as a player, not because of the team. physical d-men stop being physical, and after a few weeks its like their play just totally degrades. i wouldnt mind keeping mullen, but hilliar has to go.
Jackman? Tarnstrom?

Orpik too, has progressed nicely.
Having said that I am in agreement that he should not be brought back. There are way to many defensive "errors" and systematical breakdowns which is a large part, the defensive coach IMO.

He needs to git!!!

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05-12-2004, 07:42 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Zero
you asked my opinion, now thats not good enough for you. i dont like him, i havent the past year. i never expected these guys to do great, but i did expect better.
Raider Zero, you ask questions but apparently don't like the answers you get. Don't take this stuff so personally. Even "yinzer" and "yinz" is an affectionate Pittsburgh word. Why some people view it as an insult I haven't been able to figure out. But that's neither here nor there . . . I'm going to try and address this post.
Hillier is getting a rap here with it's my opinion that there is no real substance attached. Other than generalities. I say this because three years ago the Penguin's biggest weakness has been the teams defense. It was mediocre to poor for years and I they tried to address the problem via the draft and a couple pickups. Only Orpik (of the draft picks) appeared to be NHL ready (at the end of last year - not at the start of last year) . . . two years ago we traded our arguably best defenseman Darius Kasparaitis and never replaced Bob Boughner. There was no number one defenseman in sight. There was no shutdown guy. There was no player that was capable of hounding the opposing team's best player, and we went into the 02-03 season thinking that Rick Berry and/or Josef Melichar could lead the way. (BTW, that a condensed version of the Penguins going to 02-03 from two different publications and my own perspective)
The year before that believe it or not . . . the Penguins were looking at Mike Wilson to fill the void of lack of leadership and tenacity of the defense and Andy Ference was looked at as the team's best defenceman. Then we come to this last season were we have yet another head coach and since trading away Sergei Zubov (nine years ago now) the search for a Number one defenseman still goes on. Welsh, Whitney and Orpik MAY be the answer and the hope was that last season that Rozsival and Melichar could have a breakout year.
Simply put, if you are looking for a scapegoat by dumping on Randy Hillier, you got him. I haven't supported, nor dumped on Hillier because I really don't think that the material was there to do too much of anything except go along with the program and either believe that the management team knows what they are doing, or not. You have chosen to believe that the head coach, GM don't know what they are doing. Raider Zero, it's a Free Country and you can believe whatever you want.
IMO, they obviously aren't just paying lip service to this part of the game . . . but let's think back to right before camp last year when the some postings were about Micki DuPont and Richard Lintner being key defensive players. That's how things really were.

Quote:
i mentioned that it seems when a hitting d-man comes here they stop hitting. and, imo (and im sure otehrs will agree), its the defense coaches job to make sure the d-men do their job (after all this is what he is hired for). and never did i say a d-man playing good cant be attributed to him.
No problem Raider Zero. You are definitely entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that the Penguins felt it was time to change the identity of the team. The drafting of defensemen and particularly, M-A Fleury indicate that they were going to go in a different direction. CP claims he has the best crop of prospects in the NHL. And, I think we, in general think that also. They will go though yet another year or two of building, learning and some things will work and others will fail. They will have the ample opportunity to prove themselves over the next two to three years. That's what rebuilding is. Having the patience to stick to your guns is what management and the fans have to have. Dick Tarnstrom and Rick Jackman were basically rejects from teams. Tarnstrom from the waiver wire and Jackman for Drake Berehowsky.


Quote:
you havent said a damn thing as to what you think, other than vaguely disguising calling people idiots in your your post by saying "your opinions are wrong with faulty logic".
Personally, and this is a bit personal . . . I think you and a few others are way too touchy. I didn't say you or anyone else is an IDIOT. All I stated was that (in so many words) that if you want to go on a witch hunt for Hillier . . . that's YOUR CHOICE. But bring some ammunition with you. I don't know whether he's worth a hill of beans as a coach, or if he's not. But if I felt the need to flog him publicly I sure bring some real specifics or I would expect to have my statement challenged.
I go to just about every home game and a few away games and have followed the Penguins very closely for too many years now. And I feel that my opinion doesn't carry any more water than yours. But, I really just don't know if he's a good coach or BAD coach. You've presented your determination and a few others have concluded he sucks. I just don't think you supplied the details of your decision. And, I haven't changed the "faulty Logic" statement I made, BTW.
If you and another two or three feel you are being unjustly accused of being idiots . . . there isn't much I can do except change my viewpoint or accept what I believe is another paranoia type statement. So far, none of you (except complaining about my post) have offerd up any real support (other than vaugue generalities) that Randy Hillier is a bad coach and must be discharged. If you have some specifics give them. If it's just simply "intutition" . . . then say that. Some people can eaisly accept the power of attaining direct knowledge without evident rational thought. me, I've always had a problem with that. But, I've learned to accept that.

Quote:
if you dont like what i say, fine. i told you why i dont like him, but according to your logic, my argument is worthless.
What you said . . . to be prefectly accurate is this:
Quote:
ive been saying for over a year he's a problem. it seems any d-man that comes over here plays worse as a player, not because of the team. physical d-men stop being physical, and after a few weeks its like their play just totally degrades. i wouldnt mind keeping mullen, but hilliar has to go.
Now . . . do you really have specifics on who came over to the Penguins last season and became "less physical defensemen" . . . who's play "just totally degraded?" Last season or "for years". Since the original post you have offered up the following:
"berehowsky supposedly was a decent hitter, and he didnt do any of that. there are more, but i cant think of any others off the top of my head."
This is my response to that: Drake Berehowsky was living proof that expansion recuses some players from the junk pile. Berehowsky's foot skills have always been poor but he's always been willing to mix it up and always played tough before he had the nearly career ending knee injury. The "scouting report" on Berehowsy about 10 years ago was that he was a player that didn't play to his size, and he has to start pushing people around instead of vise-versa. His intensity was also a question mark . . . and that was his first trip to the Leafs. Do you have something that says he was a big hitter? Your example (only one) doesn't play out. That's all I am saying. Maybe you have other reports that say the <94-95 Hockey Scouting Report> is wrong and that Berehowsky was a big hitter that Hillier screwed up. I'll wait to see your retort and some other defensemen that you think he (Hillier) screwed-up. Maybe you are really on to something here. I just haven't seen any evidence of that.

Quote:
ok, so i'll use your same "logic" to disprove your argument: your opinion isnt the same as mine, so it's wrong. because it's wrong, you arent smart and have stupid ideas. (sorry, i cant think up of a witty example like the one you came up with that has been used millions of times before).
Personally, I don't mind others taking shots at me. This goes on with a few of us with very strong opinions on these boards. But, as a side comment, a board moderator, don't you have a tough job determining what's a good post and what isn't.
Is your last statement? Well, I'll respond to it anyway. IMO, you didn't use any "good logic" above either. But that may be just my opinion.


Last edited by kutdacheez: 05-12-2004 at 10:48 AM.
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Old
05-12-2004, 08:10 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
Because For the past few years that I've been on this board, you and cheez always trash the people of Pittsburgh(yinzers) like were are low class scum.
Quote:
Now come on honestly, what do you 2 guys do in life that makes me and alot of other Pittsburgher's lowlife yinzers and makes you 2 guys upper class citizens?
When someone goes out of the friggin way to make, erroneous statements like the above, some people just let them go while others (like me) simply ask: Do you have a link to me (or with Iagreewithidiots, for that matter) of "you and cheez always trashing the people of Pittsburgh like they were low class scum"????
If not, then what is this in this post . . . other than an outright flame?
Until some link is provided why don't I list this as something more from the "theater of the absurd" . . . with a slight touch of "parnoia" thrown in for good measure.
If you really have something to support those above statements (which I highly doubt) . . . but you never know, I do get carried away once in a while . . . I'll address it more specifically, if you provide it. Until then, this isn't any better than the generalities laid on Hillier.

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05-12-2004, 08:20 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
http://members.aol.com/brownsbackerspgh/yinzer.html

Yes I did a little research and understand yinz guys completely.

Being from Ottawa and having never set foot on Penn. soil, I suspect I am not a Yinzer. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Watch setting your feet on Pennsoil . . . it's slippy!

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05-12-2004, 08:29 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider Zero
1)
2) i havent seen much of a stereotyping of a city, kutda's comments being the closest i've seen in a while. but then again, i havent been able to be around the past few weeks, so there may be stuff i missed.
Was I away for the past few weeks, also? Where have YOU found my stereotyping of Pittsburgh to be something to the degree that you made this statement?
I live here . . . and I although I think that the city has good and bad sides to it. If anything, I go out of my way top promote it.
Where do you get the permission to post total fabrication like this?

Unreal. If you can't stand the heat of a discussion . . . get out of the kitchen. This is supposedly what is considered an okay post?

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05-12-2004, 08:32 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
But why is it that when a couple of posters constantly give a negative stereotype to a whole city of people or when they constantly make insulting comments about that city like the majority of people that reside there are trash, that those posters never get warned, thier threads deleted, or even suspended for a period of time?
Mods please read this.

Mr Page has tried this in the past. He is attempting to do it again.

He does not, for whatever reasons, like myself or kudtacheez. Now he is trying to accuse us of insulting him and the city as a whole to get us banned.

Please I beg all Mods not to fall for this. Go ahead and look back at how many posters other then me and kudtacheez have used the words, yinz, yinzer, and the like. Many people on this board have. Sometimes in negative fashion.

Yet Mr Page only picks out two people as trying to drag down the city. Please Mods dont fall for another attempt by Mr page to get people banned that he does not like.

Mr Page I have no problem with you. I would kindly ask that if you do not wish to read my posts or like what I have to say then please put me on ignore. Nobody else on this board has a problem, that they have brought to my attention, with my use of the word yinzer. I have seen you threaten to beat another poster bloody because you did not like him. I do not wish to become your next victim. Please put me on ignore so we dont have to waste everyone elses time with pointless arguments.

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05-12-2004, 08:42 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog
Jackman? Tarnstrom?

Orpik too, has progressed nicely.
Having said that I am in agreement that he should not be brought back. There are way to many defensive "errors" and systematical breakdowns which is a large part, the defensive coach IMO.

He needs to git!!!
Now, Stardog . . . you see, I have no problem with this opinion. It offers up an opinion based on something. However, I also have the right to disagree (at least, I used to have that right) . . . I'll have to czech da rules again.

For one, I was never a fan of Randy Hillier's, as a player. I always felt that he never had a lot of skill. IMO, he was slow and always looked like he was forced to react rather than being able to make the opponent react to him. He was not only slow but had otherwise sub-par skating ability on top of being slow. He never carried the puck much and really contributed very little at the offensive blue line where he shot the puck almost never.

So, needless to say, I questioned him as a coach. On this board as a matter of fact. But, I also said, maybe he was meant to be a coach because he always worked hard, did clear people out from in front of the net and had what appeared to be a solid work ethic and attitude.

As to the "There are way to many defensive "errors" and systematical breakdowns which is a large part, the defensive coach IMO." If that was the only criteria, we wouldn't have had any coaches back, right?

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05-12-2004, 12:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Mods please read this.

Mr Page has tried this in the past. He is attempting to do it again.

He does not, for whatever reasons, like myself or kudtacheez. Now he is trying to accuse us of insulting him and the city as a whole to get us banned.

Please I beg all Mods not to fall for this. Go ahead and look back at how many posters other then me and kudtacheez have used the words, yinz, yinzer, and the like. Many people on this board have. Sometimes in negative fashion.

Yet Mr Page only picks out two people as trying to drag down the city. Please Mods dont fall for another attempt by Mr page to get people banned that he does not like.

Mr Page I have no problem with you. I would kindly ask that if you do not wish to read my posts or like what I have to say then please put me on ignore. Nobody else on this board has a problem, that they have brought to my attention, with my use of the word yinzer. I have seen you threaten to beat another poster bloody because you did not like him. I do not wish to become your next victim. Please put me on ignore so we dont have to waste everyone elses time with pointless arguments.
Why should posters like yourself be able use the word yinzer in your posts?
It's not as extreme, but it insults alot of people the same way it would insult a black person as if you would drop the "N" bomb on them, or if you would stereotype a Chinese person, or a Polish person, etc,etc,. And both of you know this, that's why you do it.
You are clearly one of the main posters on the Penguins board that whenever you don't agree with what someone from Pittsburgh or the surrounding area says, you start with the negative, insulting yinzer crap.
Now you say, I'm trying to get you or Cheez banned?
You couldn't be more offbase. All that I was trying to point out, is when the mods. look at my posts with a onesided view of me getting out of hand, I wanted them to see things both ways.
I may have got upset a little bit, but you both chose to insult the people of Pittsburgh once again.
I don't want to see either of you 2 banned, especailly Cheez because that dude writes some interesting things and gives you a different view of subjects.
I would never report any poster to a moderator. I'd rather argue, it's in my nature.
So don't sit at your computer and accuse me of being some rat that tries to cause people on here problems.
All I want to know is, why is it that you or Cheez live in Pittsburgh or the surrounding area, and people don't always agree with your opinions on sports or other subjects, don't you consider yourselves yinzers?
And what is it that puts the both of you on a pedastool way above yinzers?
I'm just curious because I'm a yinzer, and if not being one would make me a better all around person, I'm all for it.

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05-12-2004, 12:16 PM
  #35
Lionel Hutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
Watch setting your feet on Pennsoil . . . it's slippy!
LOL, my bad, I meant Pennselvania soil, Pittsburgh soil, whatever. I've never been to Pittsburgh - unfortunate choice of wording I suppose.

I said I wouldn't bring Hillier back. I agree with the poster above who said we don't know what goes on in the background. We don't know the details of what one specific member of the coaching staff contributes. Maybe there are other causes for the defensive troubles, I don't know.

However, If I had to pinpoint a part of the system that could work better, its the Defense. The Penalty Kill was awful nearly all year, and watching it, it was clear there was pretty much no system.

Defensive zone coverage was bad. The fundamentals of the defensive game were lacking. Alot of this no question is due to a young, or in some cases talent deprived, defeinsive corps. bUT, some teams manage to play quite well defensively without having a blue chip defense. Some teams play great decent defensive hockey without a quality defenceman. All teams played better defensively than The Pens. I beleive better defence could be accomplished by having a plan and a system, and implementing it well.

Seeing that this is the part of the Pens game I was most concerned with, and that the defensive coaches job is to lead the planning and implementing of that system, I would blame the D coach, and suggest that bringing in someone better could lead to alot of improvement, alot faster.

Now as I said, I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, this is my opinion from an outsider perspective. I'm happy with Edzo and the rest (esp. Mollken) but very unhappy with the fundamentals of the defensive game. If I don't want to point at Edzo, I'll point at Hillier b/c defense is his area. From what I know of NHL organizations, the defensive coach should have tremendous influence on the defensive tactics.

There is also alot to be said for keeping a coaching team together and letting them gel along with the team, admittedly I haven't addressed this. If I were my decision, I'm sure I would know alot more about this dynamic in this exact case, and would certainly take into consideration.

If Hillier was not to blame, or if he improved with the rest of the team, then great. I'm sure the powers that be have more information and know that better than I, and they will make the right choice.

And last, when I read about the concept of "Yinzers" I thought it was pretty funny. Not because it is insultingly funny, or stereotyping or anything negative. Lots of regions have personalities and nicknames like that that are not insulting but rather they are affectionate. That is what I understood "yinzers" to be. My hometown has similar concepts attached. I have used them frequently along with the stereotypes to describe my home or make jokes aimed at myself or friends and family. I've never meant any harm by it, and no-one has ever taken offense to it. It doesn't make me any less proud of my home or the people there, its just in fun. Is that what is meant here?

I don't know, I'm just a newbie and haven't seen the discussions and insults referenced.

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05-12-2004, 01:05 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz

And last, when I read about the concept of "Yinzers" I thought it was pretty funny. Not because it is insultingly funny, or stereotyping or anything negative. Lots of regions have personalities and nicknames like that that are not insulting but rather they are affectionate. That is what I understood "yinzers" to be. My hometown has similar concepts attached. I have used them frequently along with the stereotypes to describe my home or make jokes aimed at myself or friends and family. I've never meant any harm by it, and no-one has ever taken offense to it. It doesn't make me any less proud of my home or the people there, its just in fun. Is that what is meant here?

I don't know, I'm just a newbie and haven't seen the discussions and insults referenced.
I understand everything you've just said about jokingly and maybe that would be fine.
But the way they use the word yinzer is, if someone on here makes a stupid, not well thought out comment or post, they act like they are lacking in brain capacity because they are a dumb a$$ "yinzer", like a yinzer is a complete buffoon and they are a higher quality human being.
Now you could look back in 2 to 3 years of posts and read all of Kutdacheez and Iagreewithidiots(used to be Ohthestupidity) posts and you would see that"PROBABLY" over half of them use the word yinzer in a insulting or spiteful way, but I'm quite positive you have a life and wouldn't want to waste your time.

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05-12-2004, 02:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
No personal offense intended to anybody (specifically) . . . but, in general, if you don't have any idea why CP would bring back Randy Hillier . . . yinzers probably don't have any idea why you'd let him go, either.

I have no special fondness of Randy Hillier as a coach or player and really don't know why he is being "suggested -- to be fired" yet nothing is said about the other coaches. For example, Joey Mullen. What, as a coach, has Mullen earned that Hillier hasn't? Or versa-visa?

MO is very basic. If you are developing a new coaching system at both WB/S and here we should give it time to develop. There is a lot said for a good coaching staff that know their functions and work together well.

Olczyk feels comfortable with who he has now . . . so does CP and Mario. What do any of you critics have to bring to the table to say otherwise? Maybe you do have something with some substance other than "ditch him their must be someone better out there" . . . "he's a pansy" . . . or "Maybe it's Hillier and maybe it's not, but let's fire him anyway."

For crêpes sake, yinzers sound like an olde ladies neighborhood quilting party in a which hunt against the new neighbor that just moved into the block. While this stuff, for some reason, draws the temptation for some to jump on the bandwagon and join into the juicy consensus opinion . . . without any substance other than generality . . . I'd would think to avoid it would be the best choice. Unless someone really has something concrete to offer up, that is.
I know you like to play devils advocate and stir the pot but I am not to sure what you are getting at this time.
There HAVE been concrete reasons offered up already as to why Hillier should not be brought back and why the others should.
Almost everyone has mentioned the defense not improving as a group. That is his responsibility, it is a fact.
Mullen's is the power play and the forwards. Are you telling me that HE didnt do HIS job.
You call for concrete evidence, yet it was already given in this thread. So again, I am not sure what you are getting at because what you want has already been answered.

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05-12-2004, 04:16 PM
  #38
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Now that I'm done with my drama , here's my opinion on Randy Hillier.
I didn't think Randy did all that bad of a job last year compared to the year before.
Rember in 2003-2004 Hillier had slugs like Moran, Jonsson, Lintner, etc.,etc. to work with.
I think Randy will be OK. As a player he was a hard nosed, gritty, stay at home, grissled veteran type that I personally think has alot of good imformatoin and tricks of the trade that he could pass on to young players.
Remember, if I'm not mistaken Randy has only been a coach since Kehoe took the reigns as head coach(I may be wrong though), so he hasn't had much expirience coaching. But I think he's improved year by year and I'll go out on a limb and guess that he'll be a pleasant surprise in this teams growing process.
As the team gets better, he'll get better.

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05-12-2004, 05:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
Why should posters like yourself be able use the word yinzer in your posts?
It's not as extreme, but it insults alot of people the same way it would insult a black person as if you would drop the "N" bomb on them, or if you would stereotype a Chinese person, or a Polish person, etc,etc,. And both of you know this, that's why you do it.
Oh please Mr Page nobody is forcing you to sit on the back of the bus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
All I want to know is, why is it that you or Cheez live in Pittsburgh or the surrounding area, and people don't always agree with your opinions on sports or other subjects, don't you consider yourselves yinzers?
And what is it that puts the both of you on a pedastool way above yinzers?
I'm just curious because I'm a yinzer, and if not being one would make me a better all around person, I'm all for it.
You couldn't be more offbase.

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05-12-2004, 05:19 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Oh please Mr Page nobody is forcing you to sit on the back of the bus.



You couldn't be more offbase.
Seriously, what is your defintion of a yinzer in detail?
Just out of curiousity since yyou say I'm so far off base.
And how come you only use the word when your describing someones stupidity, narrow mindedness, low class, etc., etc.?

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05-12-2004, 05:19 PM
  #41
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Im telling everyone. Next time I post the word yinz or yinzer, no matter how innocent, Mr Page will run screaming and crying to the Mods that I am making a personal insult againt him and his beloved city. Hes done it before. He will demand I be banned or my post be deleted.

I refuse to change the way I post because one person doesnt like me. Its just too petty. Put me on ignore and let everyone else enjoy what I have to say.

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05-12-2004, 05:25 PM
  #42
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy page
Seriously, what is your defintion of a yinzer in detail?
Just out of curiousity since yyou say I'm so far off base.
And how come you only use the word when your describing someones stupidity, narrow mindedness, low class, etc., etc.?
I dont get your problem.

It doesnt matter what my definition is if you think its negative no matter what I say. But since you asked Ill tell you.

I believe a yinzer is anyone that uses the word yinz. Hence they are a yinzer.

You dont like me put me on ignore. Problem solved. Its so very simple Mr Page.

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Old
05-12-2004, 06:02 PM
  #43
No Quarter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
Im telling everyone. Next time I post the word yinz or yinzer, no matter how innocent, Mr Page will run screaming and crying to the Mods that I am making a personal insult againt him and his beloved city. Hes done it before. He will demand I be banned or my post be deleted.

I refuse to change the way I post because one person doesnt like me. Its just too petty. Put me on ignore and let everyone else enjoy what I have to say.


How can you say that about me?
I've never went running or crying to a mod since I've been on this site.
You out of all posters should no that's not my style.
Now you are totally making something up about me that is just not true.
I'm not a snitch nor do I appriciate being accused of being one.
That's just not cool making up things about me.
At least the things I accused you of doing had truth to them.
Tell you what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna go back to my post where I mentioned that the mods read it carefully and judge both sides equally and delete that section. That there I should not of said because now you're taking the ball and running with it and twisting my words around to make me sound like I'm trying to get you banned.
And not like you, I don't even know you brother.
All that I know about you is that you rarely post anymore, and when you do you go out of your way to label someone as a yinzer when they make silly, uninformed comments.

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05-12-2004, 08:11 PM
  #44
HockeyMaster
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This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.

 
Old
05-12-2004, 08:17 PM
  #45
Lionel Hutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMaster
This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.
I second that.

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Old
05-12-2004, 08:29 PM
  #46
No Quarter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMaster
This has to be one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard.
I know it is.
I should just let it go, but I'm so damn hardheaded that I can't let things go, and i always have to have the last word.
Iagreewithidiots and I have been through this before and he knows it irks me to no end using the word yinzers in an insulting arrogent way. Then he plays it off like he didn't do it.
Like I said, I should just drop it, but I can't when he blatently makes up lies about me and says that I always run and cry to moderators.
That just is totally not true. If I have a problem, I'd rather settle it myself.
I know this is getting lame, but as long as he makes up things about me, I'll be forced to run my mouth more and defend myself.
Sorry dude.

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Old
05-12-2004, 09:20 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutdacheez
Now, Stardog . . . you see, I have no problem with this opinion. It offers up an opinion based on something. However, I also have the right to disagree (at least, I used to have that right) . . . I'll have to czech da rules again.

For one, I was never a fan of Randy Hillier's, as a player. I always felt that he never had a lot of skill. IMO, he was slow and always looked like he was forced to react rather than being able to make the opponent react to him. He was not only slow but had otherwise sub-par skating ability on top of being slow. He never carried the puck much and really contributed very little at the offensive blue line where he shot the puck almost never.

So, needless to say, I questioned him as a coach. On this board as a matter of fact. But, I also said, maybe he was meant to be a coach because he always worked hard, did clear people out from in front of the net and had what appeared to be a solid work ethic and attitude.

As to the "There are way to many defensive "errors" and systematical breakdowns which is a large part, the defensive coach IMO." If that was the only criteria, we wouldn't have had any coaches back, right?
Not really as he has been a constant over the course of a few years. In fact (or in opinion actually) I think that our defense as a whole looked MUCH MUCH better when Don Jackson was at the helm. He seemed to utilize the personnel and motivate them to play a stronger tighter defensive scheme than Hillier seems to do.
I am sorry, but when that many chances are given up on a nightly basis then there is SOMETHING wrong which cant be blamed entirely on either the personnel or the coach.
I simply have yet to be impressed by a system put forth by Hillier. I know what I am looking at and I know what to base my evaluation on.
The key here is that I am not in the locker room to know whether it is the idiocy of the players or the coaches unable to break through to them. Or if it is simply an inadequate system.
Yet it seems to me that it is a coaches job to get the message across to his players (btw, I also am a coach at a very high level in another sport) in order for them to maximize thier success. If the player is as dumb as a brick and simply cannot fathom what the coach is saying or trying to get the player to do then get rid of the player.
I have serious doubts though, that a player could be THAT stupid and still make it to this level by making the same mistakes over and over throughout his career.
Of course that is entirely an assumption, but one that isnt all THAT unfounded IMO.

I look at the personnel that we have had through his tenure, and while not all that awe inspiring, it should still be better as a whole than it has been under Hillier. And with the talent we had on our blueline this year I feel that they left MUCH to be desired. Which is not to say that our players resembled that of the Sens or Red Wings blue line, but they certainly could have done a MUCH better job collectivley than they did this year.
And I can say the same about our different personnel in years past who were under the tutiledge of Hillier. They simply (and this is all my opinion based on my limited knowledge of the game comparitivley) under achieved as a group.
Under Jackson, they played better. You can argue that we had better defensemen under Jackson, but I really think that is very subjective and I would disagree with it as well. I think that our corp of D-men this year had the potential talent and skill to rival the ones we had under Jackson, yet they fell far short of the defensive production that our team recieved under Donny.
That is why I say he should go. He has had weak collective output which didnt exceed or equal what either his predecessor had or exceed either. It also didnt rival or compare to the collective skill set of our group as a whole. It simply fell short again and left me wanting much more from this group.
The groups we have had certainly arent that great. But, IMO, they played even worse than what thier skill set determines that they should.
That is my opinion and it is why he should go. He is in charge of our defense and as far as defenivley speaking, they fell way short once again comparitivley (comp to the groups before him and to where they should have been given the collective talents).

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Old
05-13-2004, 07:23 AM
  #48
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz
I second that.
I third that.

I cant believe somone would pick me out and accuse me of insulting them. With no evidence no less.

Anyway.

I dont know about Hillier.

I think if he had better talent few would question his abilities.

How much does positional coaching really help at the pro level? These guys should know how to play defense. The coach can help with mechanics but he cant make a guy have instincts.

You look at a young guy like Orpik that played better as the season went on. Did Hillier help him or is Orpik destined to be a great defenseman no matter what? Did Hillier not help Berehowsky, who many said was terrible when they signed him, or was Berehowsky destined to bite the big one?

Im not convinced a defensive coach can really make a defense that much better or that much worse. As long as my guy keeps preaching the basics and keeps tabs on the players mechanics Im happy.

I would say when a decent defensemen made a mistake it was more due to mental error then bad positioning. The question then becomes how responsible is coaching for mental mistakes?


Last edited by iagreewithidiots: 05-13-2004 at 07:42 AM.
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