HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Poll on sportsnet...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-14-2004, 11:30 PM
  #51
quat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,915
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
1) Quat, I had a hard time believing Crawford, Naslund, Cooke et al when they were commending Todd's actions in the Parker/Jovo fight. 1st of all, the linesmen are there to break up uneven fights and that tilt was not uneven. 2nd, Bert could have just pulled Parker off of him if that was the case but he got a freebie in there. 3rd, noone else in the hockey world saw it your way except for the folks tuned into the Canucks' propaganda machine.

I'll admit that it wasn't the hardest suckerpunch ever, he could have done better if he really tried, but he still did it.

You were the one that seemed to be giving an equal amount of importance to both of the examples. I was simply saying that Bertuzzi coming off the bench was pretty debatable as to how "dirty" the whole thing was. First, coming off the bench is dumb... but how many times have you seen the third guy in do exactly what Bertuzzi did? It's hardly uncommon and very often it's done by a player who isn't known for being a cheap shot guy or whatever.

2)That's wrong and you have to be able to understand that quat.

I'm sorry if somehow you've come to the conclusion that anything Bertuzzi has done in his carreer is all fine and dandy with me. That's hardly the case, and I don't really see the leap in logic from not calling Bertuzzi a dirty player.

If Moore was a proven thug like C Lemieux then I'd surely be a bit quicker to condemn his hit on Nazzy, I'd even say that some nastiness could be warranted in return, but he made one borderline hit that I know of (do you know of any others?) and it wasn't even bad enough to earn him a suspension after review by the league. The only thing that will make that hit memorable 5 years from now is what happened three weeks later, imo and that of the league.

How long had Moore been in the NHL? The league makes tons of crap calls or non calls on suspendable infractions all the time... Suddenly they are perfect? Whether you or I think the hit was clean or dirty doesn't really make much difference, because Naslunds teammates felt it was dirty... and they wanted some payback... you know.. the kind that anyone who hit Gretzky would get.


Anyways, Cooke "stuck up" for his teammate, he dropped his gloves and went about his business like a man (for once). What Bert did was not "sticking up for" anyone, it was just dirty.

What are you talking about? Why do you think Bertuzzi went after Moore? Because he didn't like his skates? I don't like what Bertuzzi did, infact probably a great deal more than you... but that in no way changes the reason why he hit Moore.

To say it was stupid is not completely accurate because what you're doing is making an assumption on behalf of Todd himself. You're essentially saying that he didn't know any better, that he really didn't think about what he was doing, or that he didn't intend to injure Moore.

I'm suggesting that Bertuzzi intended to beat up Moore. I think the fact he skated around trying to get him to fight sort of proves that... though of course I don't know what Bertuzzi was thinking because I'm not Bertuzzi. Are you suggesting that Bertuzzi planned on knocking out Moore out so when he went down with Bertuzzi on his back his neck would be fractured? Uh... that seems awfully unlikely to me.

You don't know any such thing quat. What we all know is that Todd had three weeks in between times, he had a prior game to exact a more acceptable form of revenge, and the act didn't come in the heat of some form of exchange either. It happened as Moore was skating up the ice, and it was without any doubt dirty.

You are saying this like I wasn't aware of what happened. I completely agree that the hit was dirty... where have I said it wasn't? The only thing I added to another posters point was that Bertuzzi tried to engage Moore before he hit him. That was the only point I was making. That point has no effect whatsoever on Moores injury!

3) Is Bert a dirty player or just stupid? Well, could punching someone in the head from behind ever really be an honest mistake? Would a reasonable man ever just assume "Hey, maybe this guy wants to be suckerpunched"? In case you're wondering, I'll just say "No, thanks" in advance.

It's like you are working your absolute hardest to ignore what I've been saying so you can add your glib little asides. The point is, in Bertuzzi's carreer he has this one awful attack, and then the Parker ... what'd you call it? Koala humping? And then some other stuff that either happened off the ice or maybe 10 years ago... and at best it was one or two things that sound to me rather lame. I'm not ignoring the giant list of dirty Bertuzzi incidents as someone else seemed to suggest.

So again I fail to see how you've proven Bertuzzi is a dirty hockey player. However, since you've either failed to address my comments or invented stuff I hadn't said, I'll be happy to bow out and leave you to continue to stick pins in your Bertuzzi dolls.


Dirty.

quat is offline  
Old
05-14-2004, 11:52 PM
  #52
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,010
vCash: 500
So now you're admitting that Bert kinda punched Parker from behind (but lots of other guys do it), and that he really lambasted Moore from behind, but you say that's not enough evidence to come to the conclusion that he's a dirty player.

I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree then. I'm 100% ready to pigeon-hole a guy with two such incidents under his belt as being a dirty player.

Don't worry though, he's in good company. Mark Messier is near the top of that list although he at least gets credit for dropping his gloves a bit more often.

Oi'll say! is offline  
Old
05-15-2004, 12:41 AM
  #53
quat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Victoria BC
Posts: 8,915
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to quat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oi'll say!
So now you're admitting that Bert kinda punched Parker from behind (but lots of other guys do it), and that he really lambasted Moore from behind, but you say that's not enough evidence to come to the conclusion that he's a dirty player.

I guess that's where we have to agree to disagree then. I'm 100% ready to pigeon-hole a guy with two such incidents under his belt as being a dirty player.

Don't worry though, he's in good company. Mark Messier is near the top of that list although he at least gets credit for dropping his gloves a bit more often.
You are such a joker. Yeah... it's just now that I'm finally saying that.... right.... In as much as you are obviously mocking my opinion, that is pretty much correct, and that's what I've said from the start. I haven't changed from my initial opinion.

I don't think Bertuzzi pulling Parker off Jovo was a horribly dirty act. You do. I said I felt that it was a similiar action to other players coming to the aid of a teammate. I don't agree with your earlier take that it was some kind of brutal suckerpunch, while I've always felt the Moore hit was.

Oi'll say... my whole point was that these don't make Bertuzzi a dirty player. I don't think the Parker incident should even be concidered dirty... maybe it was and somehow I've distorted it in my head, but I'm pretty sure it was really no more than Bertuzzi cuffing Parker in the head and pinning his arms. He got the suspension for coming off the bench, not for hitting Parker.

So no, I don't think those two instances make Bertuzzi a dirty player.

Messier? He's an excellent example of a guy who was willing to play a dirty game of hockey. Elbows to the head, cross checks, slashes. Bertuzzi simply does not play that kind of game. Messier played that way on purpose, and played that way for most of his carreer. In fact, what was it? Three games to the end of the season and he's spearing some guy cause he didn't like getting some lumber in the back.

" That Bertuzzi, yeah... remember when he suckerpunched that guy once? He sure was a dirty player over his 15 year NHL career." You've got to live in a pretty small place to think that one action defines a person.

Just one more thing... who are all these players Bertuzzi is supposed to drop the gloves with? I can't remember him backing down from anyone challanging him. Goons pretty much leave him alone, and who else is going to go after him. Messier is a much smaller player, and he fought because he liked fighting and guys got pissed off at him for his dirty play. Messier was one tough sob.


Last edited by quat: 05-15-2004 at 04:31 AM.
quat is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:54 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.