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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?

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05-07-2010, 11:26 AM
  #251
LadyStanley
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Mod note: IF and WHEN there is confirmation of a relocation/expansion, then realignment discussion will be allowed (and in a separate thread).

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05-07-2010, 11:29 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
I wouldn't be shocked if the league is "taking both forks in the road". They're fully planning for the team to be in Phoenix, and they're fully planning for the team to be in Winnipeg.
That is apparently what is happening in the scheduler's office. (They are making two schedules. One if Coyotes stay in AZ, one if they relocate.)

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05-07-2010, 11:33 AM
  #253
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What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours huh?!. Well my my my, and here I was taking Gary Bettman at his word . Looks like the "slam dunk" busted the backboard, player broke his neck when he hit the floor. Honestly, Mayor Elaine Scruggs' & City Council have got to rank right on up their with the most incompetent/dysfunctional group of city elders of all time. Amateurs. What a farce!...


Don't spin around too quickly, killion. My reaction to this was "yawn". Unfortunately, we are subjected to the sports treatment when it comes to the reporting, where there is back-and-forth, one side has momentum, deals are "dead", and the like. It makes me wonder how the negotiations on my deals would be covered if I had a reporter sitting beside me. It would probably be pretty hilarious, to be frank "ooooh, GSC has just rejected their position, the deal's dead ... oh wait, he has just proposed a counterproposal, and it's a heckuva shot creatively, maybe it's not dead yet ... ooooh, GSC has stood up, is he WALKING OUT?!??! ... oh, wait, he just going over to fix himself a tea and grab a muffin ... ooooooh, the other side has indicated their approval to the counter, albeit with a few tweaks which GSC ... has accepted, WHAT A SAVE!!!! Now, on to page 3 of 125 ..."

It may very well be the case that, having shooed away Ice Edge, JR's counsel thought they had more leverage than they did, and the CoG has decided to take them down a peg - kind of like the NHL did by using Quebec City when Ice Edge was taking their time signing their MOU with the NHL a few months back.

I would agree that politics probably got in the way of standard negotiating practice when they rejected Ice Edge and declined to proceed on a parallel path with both candidates. Kaites probably prevailed on the CoG to knock out Ice Edge with the assurance that they would not take advantage of their sole-source status in the AMULA negotiations, and then the promptly played some hardball. The normal response in such a situation would be to play some hardball right back by inviting Ice Edge back in (as they should have in the first place).

To me that is a far more likely scenario than JR having changed his mind or, as some posters fancifully suggest, the CoG suddenly realizing that the deal would not work.

Or maybe not.

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05-07-2010, 11:35 AM
  #254
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Should have taken Jimmy B's $50 million
Been saying that from the moment it was offered.



A bird in the hand...!

 
Old
05-07-2010, 11:37 AM
  #255
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But you'd likely need to read the Globe & Mail regularly.
That's only for folks east of the Manitoba-Ontario border!

The Globe & Mail - Toronto's National Newspaper.

 
Old
05-07-2010, 11:37 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
That is apparently what is happening in the scheduler's office. (They are making two schedules. One if Coyotes stay in AZ, one if they relocate.)
Not to derail the thread (again ), but how much advance notice do the teams get on what the schedule look like? Is it possible that teams could be making two sets of travel plans, while keeping close tabs on their cancellation numbers? Or is the the public release the first glance they get at it as well?

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05-07-2010, 11:38 AM
  #257
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IceEdgeDJ: Ice Edge is not confirming or denying the reports tonight, but we are confirming our Man U bid has been dropped.


So IEH won't comment on latest developments (yet).
The Man U bit just cracks me up...gotta love the sense of humour they never lost with the big money.

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05-07-2010, 11:43 AM
  #258
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I don't like that the NHL wants the city to fund the franchise's losses.

The taxpayers shouldn't be responsible for subsidizing this entertainment activity. This is reminding me of the Sonics arena situation before that team was moved.

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05-07-2010, 11:46 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Don't spin around too quickly, killion. My reaction to this was "yawn". Unfortunately, we are subjected to the sports treatment when it comes to the reporting, where there is back-and-forth, one side has momentum, deals are "dead", and the like. It makes me wonder how the negotiations on my deals would be covered if I had a reporter sitting beside me. It would probably be pretty hilarious, to be frank "ooooh, GSC has just rejected their position, the deal's dead ... oh wait, he has just proposed a counterproposal, and it's a heckuva shot creatively, maybe it's not dead yet ... ooooh, GSC has stood up, is he WALKING OUT?!??! ... oh, wait, he just going over to fix himself a tea and grab a muffin ... ooooooh, the other side has indicated their approval to the counter, albeit with a few tweaks which GSC ... has accepted, WHAT A SAVE!!!! Now, on to page 3 of 125 ..."

It may very well be the case that, having shooed away Ice Edge, JR's counsel thought they had more leverage than they did, and the CoG has decided to take them down a peg - kind of like the NHL did by using Quebec City when Ice Edge was taking their time signing their MOU with the NHL a few months back.

I would agree that politics probably got in the way of standard negotiating practice when they rejected Ice Edge and declined to proceed on a parallel path with both candidates. Kaites probably prevailed on the CoG to knock out Ice Edge with the assurance that they would not take advantage of their sole-source status in the AMULA negotiations, and then the promptly played some hardball. The normal response in such a situation would be to play some hardball right back by inviting Ice Edge back in (as they should have in the first place).

To me that is a far more likely scenario than JR having changed his mind or, as some posters fancifully suggest, the CoG suddenly realizing that the deal would not work.

Or maybe not.

I think in general the truth probably falls somewhere in the middle of what is being said publicly and what is being reported

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05-07-2010, 11:57 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Don't spin around too quickly, killion. My reaction to this was "yawn". Unfortunately, we are subjected to the sports treatment when it comes to the reporting, where there is back-and-forth, one side has momentum, deals are "dead", and the like. It makes me wonder how the negotiations on my deals would be covered if I had a reporter sitting beside me. It would probably be pretty hilarious, to be frank "ooooh, GSC has just rejected their position, the deal's dead ... oh wait, he has just proposed a counterproposal, and it's a heckuva shot creatively, maybe it's not dead yet ... ooooh, GSC has stood up, is he WALKING OUT?!??! ... oh, wait, he just going over to fix himself a tea and grab a muffin ... ooooooh, the other side has indicated their approval to the counter, albeit with a few tweaks which GSC ... has accepted, WHAT A SAVE!!!! Now, on to page 3 of 125 ..."
Someone hand this guy a straw.

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05-07-2010, 12:10 PM
  #261
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Someone hand this guy a straw.
Just speaking from experience, golie. Take it or leave it. Your post is not very substantive in any event.

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05-07-2010, 12:11 PM
  #262
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i always wonder as an airplane is going down, when is the precise moment that the pilot realizes the inevitable outcome?....is it impact with the ground?.... does he always hope that something will save him.

this entire discussion is an interesting study in perspective and how it can skew belief.

they dont have a reporter in the room....there has been amazingly little coverage in the media regarding any of the negotiations that must certainly be well down the line at this point....the first word we hear is that it is falling apart....you yourself were saying not long ago that we dont hear anything because its all backroom negotiation....now the media is at the table?


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05-07-2010, 12:12 PM
  #263
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Not to derail the thread (again ), but how much advance notice do the teams get on what the schedule look like? Is it possible that teams could be making two sets of travel plans, while keeping close tabs on their cancellation numbers? Or is the the public release the first glance they get at it as well?
The NHL usually announces it's schedule around July 15.

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05-07-2010, 12:19 PM
  #264
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The NHL usually announces it's schedule around July 15.
...to the public. Do the owners get a sneak peek so they can get a head start on booking hotels and flights and whatnot? If so, with two drafts of the schedule, they'd have two sets of plans going, one of which would have to be cancelled once they figure out what their road trips look like.

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05-07-2010, 12:29 PM
  #265
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They announce it on July 15, but they should be done or close to it around now. Arenas need to be able to fill their dates.


I think they moved the announcement up to July 1 for next year though.


You have to wonder when the league is going to pull the plug. They haven't had this much trouble with selling a team for as long as I've been following hockey.

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05-07-2010, 12:29 PM
  #266
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Ice Edge shows interest in Moose

Ice Edge Holdings Chairman Keith McCullough confirmed his organziation is back in the mix for purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes and indicated the group is also "kicking tires" on other available teams, the Thunder-Bay Chronicle-Journal reported Friday.

At a speaking engagement in his hometown of Thunder Bay, McCullough said his group of Canadian and American investors will meet with NHL brass as soon as today to discuss acquiring a team.

“There are some available teams. So we‘ve started to kick the tires if you will on some other opportunities,” said McCullough. “The best thing about pursuing the (Phoenix) Coyotes was how much we learned in the process. We‘re definitely very well aware of what we need to do to buy a team and there‘s a couple of teams we have our eyes on.”

Though Ice Edge was believed to be out of the picture when Glendale, Ariz. city council recently voted to accept a lease proposal from rival bidder Jerry Reinsdorf, the group gained new life when Reinsdorf's bid reportedly collapsed this week.

Regardless of their interest in buying an NHL team, McCullough confirmed Ice Edge would be interested in moving the AHL's Manitoba Moose to Thunder Bay should an NHL team move to Winnipeg.

“That‘s not out of the realm of possibility. There‘s a lot of talk as to whether or not the Winnipeg Jets get a team again. You know, if they bring an NHL team to Winnipeg. If that happens there‘s an AHL team that‘s interesting for Thunder Bay in the Manitoba Moose,” he said. “The Moose are not for sale but there‘s a lot of AHL teams we‘ve been talking to in terms of bringing that brand of hockey here.”

http://www.winnipegsun.com/sports/ho.../13861336.html

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05-07-2010, 12:39 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
It may very well be the case that, having shooed away Ice Edge, JR's counsel thought they had more leverage than they did, and the COG has decided to take them down a peg. I would agree that politics probably got in the way of standard negotiating practice when they rejected Ice Edge and declined to proceed on a parallel path with both candidates. Kaites probably prevailed on the CoG to knock out Ice Edge with the assurance that they would not take advantage of their sole-source status in the AMULA negotiations, and then the promptly played some hardball. The normal response in such a situation would be to play some hardball right back by inviting Ice Edge back in (as they should have in the first place). To me that is a far more likely scenario than JR having changed his mind or, as some posters fancifully suggest, the CoG suddenly realizing that the deal would not work. Or maybe not.
I perceive same. However, why they rejected IEH's bid in the first place instead of keeping all available options' open & strengthening their position, likely, as you suggest at the behest of Kaites', suggests to me at anyrate that they really truly dont know what their doing. I'll believe JR's "out" when his group makes a statement to that effect. I guess we'll find out this afternoon whether or not IEH's is back "in" when the COG posts' the May 11th Council Meeting Docket, as they'll have to re-submit another MOU over the weekend/Monday. Things are heeting up nicely.

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05-07-2010, 12:42 PM
  #268
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The wheels of the bus go round and round....


Interesting point about the "down a peg" scenario-hadn't thought of that, if that's truly the case. At this point who really knows what's going on? I'm sure writers of legal thrillers are probably saying right now"Why can't I write stuff like this?" lol

Also, when (if at all)will Ice Edge have to come public on their exact financing details-who, what when, where, ect. At some point I would think (especially now) there's would be an appetite for proof.

Maybe this is why Bettman made the mention lately of the issue with if the deadline date (IE he may have known at that point things were falling through)?

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05-07-2010, 12:49 PM
  #269
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“There are some available teams."
How can a reporter let him say that, and not press him to name the teams?

 
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05-07-2010, 12:54 PM
  #270
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You have to wonder when the league is going to pull the plug. They haven't had this much trouble with selling a team for as long as I've been following hockey.
I think Bettman learned a lot from the Winnipeg/Quebec/Hartford situations about the negative impact of moving teams without exploring every conceivable option. If this was 1995, Jim Balsillie and the city of Hamilton would have had a shiny new toy long ago. I'm not going to trash the efforts he made to save those franchises like some people gleefully do, but it seems he came out swinging a lot harder for the troubled franchises that didn't move (Ottawa, Edmonton, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Nashville).

You could argue that he's taken the apply-the-lesson-I've-learned thing into overdrive in the Phoenix case, but it's good to see that the pendulum has swung the other way.

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05-07-2010, 12:56 PM
  #271
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I perceive same. However, why they rejected IEH's bid in the first place instead of keeping all available options' open & strengthening their position, likely, as you suggest at the behest of Kaites', suggests to me at anyrate that they really truly dont know what their doing. I'll believe JR's "out" when his group makes a statement to that effect. I guess we'll find out this afternoon whether or not IEH's is back "in" when the COG posts' the May 11th Council Meeting Docket, as they'll have to re-submit another MOU over the weekend/Monday. Things are heeting up nicely.
The above bolded point certainly brings it into question, although politics makes staff do things they don't want to do. Municipal lawyers would universally confirm that it is like herding cats.

To be frank, the MOU was not exactly state of the art in draftsmanship, either.

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05-07-2010, 12:56 PM
  #272
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How can a reporter let him say that, and not press him to name the teams?
Cause I don't think it's any secret that certain teams are for sale. In reality of IEH is interested in owning an NHL team the Coyotes are far from their only option. If they don't see it working they'll walk away. Its not like they have a vested interested in Phoenix in particular.

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05-07-2010, 01:05 PM
  #273
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I wonder how much of IEH looking at other teams is basically like date who just dumped being given flowers after her previous suitor went for someone else and got rejected.


"I don't know if I want a franchise in Phoenix.....hmmm, there are a couple of other teams who have been calling....they seem like nice teams...."


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05-07-2010, 01:15 PM
  #274
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Not to derail the thread (again ), but how much advance notice do the teams get on what the schedule look like? Is it possible that teams could be making two sets of travel plans, while keeping close tabs on their cancellation numbers? Or is the the public release the first glance they get at it as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
The NHL usually announces it's schedule around July 15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
...to the public. Do the owners get a sneak peek so they can get a head start on booking hotels and flights and whatnot? If so, with two drafts of the schedule, they'd have two sets of plans going, one of which would have to be cancelled once they figure out what their road trips look like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
They announce it on July 15, but they should be done or close to it around now. Arenas need to be able to fill their dates.


I think they moved the announcement up to July 1 for next year though.


You have to wonder when the league is going to pull the plug. They haven't had this much trouble with selling a team for as long as I've been following hockey.
IIRC from last year's court hearings... By mid-May, the NHL had like 90% of the scheduling done.

Teams provide "available" dates in January. As well as preferences for days/times. (For instance, the Sharks seem OK with Tuesday/Thursday home games, and Saturdays rather than Fridays for weekend home games.)

AIUI, once there's a (or this year two) preliminary schedule(s), they are sent to the NHL teams/GMs to comment on. GMs can request changes/tweaks (if game xxx has a start time of 3pm local or earlier that will make back-to-back easier; or there's a concert that got added to schedule that conflicts with game yyy). Burke mentioned that the year Anaheim went to Europe, he scheduled a few games on the return (on east coast), rather than what many teams did this past year of having a week without.

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05-07-2010, 01:28 PM
  #275
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Actually, it hasn't been July 15, it was always the day after the MLB All-Star Game. I guess they think that they can be the NFL where people all over the sports world will talk about it for an entire day

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