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Tootoo family sues police

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05-11-2004, 03:45 AM
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Le Golie
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Tootoo family sues police

The Tootoo family, including Jordin, have filed a lawsuit against the Brandon Police Service and another man for damages resulting from the suicide of Jordin's brother Terence.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...11/454544.html

The police have been accused of contributing to his death by failing to turn him over to a sober adult after he was arrested for drunk driving. They are also sueing a man (who I think was Jordin's former billet when he played for the Wheat Kings) because he owned the shot gun Terence used. They allege the gun wasn't registered or properly stored.

It's hard for me to weigh in on this one because I didn't lose a brother or a son. However, from the outside looking in it seems to me to be unnecessary. Personally, I think I would grieve and move on.

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05-11-2004, 04:05 AM
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They should take a page from the Snyder's book.

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05-11-2004, 09:20 AM
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Daryl Shilling
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Originally Posted by E = CH²
They should take a page from the Snyder's book.
I would think the big difference between how the Snyders and the Tootoos feel is that the police, for example, have a much higher onus of responsibility than Dany Heatley has. They aren't the only ones that feel this way, since the Brandon police force publicly admonished the officers involved for not doing their job.

I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with the Tootoos suing the cops over this, but that there is a difference between suing your dead son's friend for doing something stupid, and the police: who should have known better, and have a position of authority and responsibility that is much higher than every other citizen.

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05-11-2004, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Daryl Shilling
I would think the big difference between how the Snyders and the Tootoos feel is that the police, for example, have a much higher onus of responsibility than Dany Heatley has. They aren't the only ones that feel this way, since the Brandon police force publicly admonished the officers involved for not doing their job.

I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with the Tootoos suing the cops over this, but that there is a difference between suing your dead son's friend for doing something stupid, and the police: who should have known better, and have a position of authority and responsibility that is much higher than every other citizen.

Daryl
Just another example in our society where its always someone elses fault other than he person who is actually at (& this right word but I will use it anyways) fault.
As tragic as it was, its one person & one persons only "fault". He was an adult & its not as if the gun went off accidentally.Furthur, as he himself was an adult so what does not turning him over to an adult have to do with anything & how in gods name are the cops supposed to know he was suicidal. Every time the Cops give a guy an impaired are they supposed to run a battery of psychological tests & turn the person over to a "resposible adult"? Ridiculous.
Its an attempt at a money grab.


Last edited by Sammy*: 05-11-2004 at 10:25 AM.
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05-11-2004, 10:20 AM
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I want to support the TooToos in the worst way on this one. I want to say that I agree with their position and that I see fault. I want to do these things, but I can't.

This is rubbish. Blame everyone BUT the lad who were so troubled that he killed his self?

Now, I think Toots is a grand player and a trail blazer, I hold him in bloody high regard but, I simply can't see where this is ultimately anyone but his brothers own fault.

The police, if they had kept him locked up for 72 hours would be sued for being abusive and if they try and do a solid and release the lad to a family freind and then the kid goes and kills his self, then it is their fault also.

I can't imagine the pain they are having to deal with but this to me seems to be daft and I hope it is out of greif and that they will come around soon enough.

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05-11-2004, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl Shilling
I would think the big difference between how the Snyders and the Tootoos feel is that the police, for example, have a much higher onus of responsibility than Dany Heatley has. They aren't the only ones that feel this way, since the Brandon police force publicly admonished the officers involved for not doing their job.

I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with the Tootoos suing the cops over this, but that there is a difference between suing your dead son's friend for doing something stupid, and the police: who should have known better, and have a position of authority and responsibility that is much higher than every other citizen.

Daryl
Well Put. It's the polices job to take care of the people they arrest.
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Originally Posted by Sammy
Just another example in our society where its always someone elses fault other than he person who is actually at (& this right word but I will use it anyways) fault.
I'm sure if the Tootoos were there, they would have stopped Terrance from killing himself. But the guy was in police custody: It's the polices fault he died.

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05-11-2004, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Douggy
Well Put. It's the polices job to take care of the people they arrest.

I'm sure if the Tootoos were there, they would have stopped Terrance from killing himself. But the guy was in police custody: It's the polices fault he died.
He wasnt in police custody when he killed himself.

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05-11-2004, 10:33 AM
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Its like the girl who took the puck in the head and died ..her parents sued ..its all about the bling bling today ..just shows how special the Snyder family is and how much preserving their sons image is more important than $$$$$.

Kind of in defence of Tootoo, the native people in Canada are treated as second class citizens by the Government and especially by the police .Its a shame but nobody cares in this country .This probably has something to do with the lawsuit .We had some very good native hockey players who played junior in our area and the pressure they had to live under was incredible .While the other players could go and party all night and nail puck bunnies till the cows came home , the native players never ever partaked in these parties and i asked them why they didnt let go at these parties and they told me that they represent every native person across North America and that responsability was something they took very seriousely .They are very proud of their native heritage and didnt want anything to tarnish that ...just great kids .

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05-11-2004, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydroponic Harold
Its like the girl who took the puck in the head and died ..her parents sued ..its all about the bling bling today
Those people sued because the people at the Hospital @#$#ed up. The girl shouldn't have died.

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05-11-2004, 12:23 PM
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I'm going to take a different side of this story.

Terrence probably didn't really understand what he was doing when he was drunk. He was depressed and then shot himself.

Now let's say this was your brother.

You don't know he was depressed, you don't know he was mentally unstable. You find out later that night he shot himself and killed himself. The police had every chance to stop him from killing himself or doing bodily harm by turning him over to a sober adult.

I agree that suing the guy that had the shotgun is assinine but the police, I still question why they let him go and not turned him over to someone?

 
Old
05-11-2004, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
I'm going to take a different side of this story.

Terrence probably didn't really understand what he was doing when he was drunk. He was depressed and then shot himself.

Now let's say this was your brother.

You don't know he was depressed, you don't know he was mentally unstable. You find out later that night he shot himself and killed himself. The police had every chance to stop him from killing himself or doing bodily harm by turning him over to a sober adult.

I agree that suing the guy that had the shotgun is assinine but the police, I still question why they let him go and not turned him over to someone?

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05-11-2004, 12:42 PM
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i don't think this is about money, really. i mean..obviously...as a preds fan...i'm going to appear biased...but the tootoo's are pretty proud of a modest existence...and as family-oriented as they are, i think that jordin will definitely contribute from his newfound wealth. i think this is more about making sure that it's known that the authorities MESSED UP. terrence was, as it's now sadly apparent, not in a position to be alone\take care of himself. he was left alone with an enormous amount of guilt, shame, dishonor and fear...at a time that he should have been near the people that loved\cared about him. was he perhaps mentally unstable? he could have been...but i view this as a preventable death, and always have. it's easy for us to say this is some kind of frivolous lawsuit...but if the police were even indirectly responsible for YOUR brother's death, you'd feel differently.

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05-11-2004, 12:42 PM
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Also I forgot to add, sometimes don't drunk people do idiotic things, and realize it the next morning because it's either tattoed on their body or because of some other reminder?

 
Old
05-11-2004, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
You find out later that night he shot himself and killed himself. The police had every chance to stop him from killing himself or doing bodily harm by turning him over to a sober adult.
So your telling me that every drunk guy the cops pick up for whatever offence, that the cops are legally obliged to hold him/her until such time they have sobered up. or alternativly, turn them over to a "responsible adult" (whatever that is).How bout every sober guy they pick up? They should have to hold em & not let em loose until they are sure they arnt scarred & upset from been picked up & charged with some offence. Lord knows , they might do something stupid
What a load.
Aside from the fact its its likely wrongful detention & actionable, its ridiculous & unworkable .


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05-11-2004, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Also I forgot to add, sometimes don't drunk people do idiotic things, and realize it the next morning because it's either tattoed on their body or because of some other reminder?
True but you can't really compare getting a tattoo to actually going home to find a shut gun than to go out in a field and shoot yourself. I don't care how drunk a person is, alcohol doesn't suddenly make him want to kill yourself more than it does when your sober. That's not the issue here at all, the issue is that he was depressed about what just happened and thought killing himself was the easy way out. No one is to blame here at all, this guy was 22 years old, he definitely knows that every action has a consquence. He's the one who decided to drive while intoxicated, I mean if Terrence had killed someone while driving under the influence would the parents than sue the bartender who served him all those drinks. Terrence Tootoo is a grown man, he knew what he did was wrong and couldn't deal with it. Unfortantely for him and his family he decided to commit suicide but to blame anyone else for his suicide is just plain wrong. I could understand is he was some 15 year old kid but this guy was 22, there was no need to turn him over to an adult.

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05-11-2004, 03:24 PM
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I know from my experience in the drunk tank in the past ..that they usually release you at 11.00 am the following day ..only after your sobered up .

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05-11-2004, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
I'm going to take a different side of this story.

Terrence probably didn't really understand what he was doing when he was drunk. He was depressed and then shot himself.

Now let's say this was your brother.

You don't know he was depressed, you don't know he was mentally unstable. You find out later that night he shot himself and killed himself. The police had every chance to stop him from killing himself or doing bodily harm by turning him over to a sober adult.

I agree that suing the guy that had the shotgun is assinine but the police, I still question why they let him go and not turned him over to someone?
Agreed Terrence was innebriated, and as a result I am split 50/50 on the issue. I do believe that the police should be held at least partially responsible but I also don't think the suit is necesary.

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05-11-2004, 03:34 PM
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I don't really support Toots in this regard as I'm not a litigious man by nature. And I probably wouldn't do this if I were in a similar situation but where does it say that the family is solely blaming the police and the gun owner? They felt they contributed and they were likely right. But where does it say that they are saying it's someone else's fault. They are merely going after a party or two that they feel should have done something about it. The gun owner shouldn't be involved IMO, but I think it's reasonable to include the cops in this. Rarely is a complex situation such as this the fault of just one. I'm sure the Tootoo's share in the responsibility. I'm sure Rankin Inlet shares the blame. Now, they share a small portion of the blame along with the cops. They all played a hand in how this kid grew up and how he got to where he did. The overwhelming majority of fault falls on the shoulders of Terrence and I think the family will admit to that. But don't be so naive (or ignorant of the situation) to think that saying someone else is to blame is akin to letting Terrence off the hook for his actions.

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05-11-2004, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Maple_Leafs_Forever
Agreed Terrence was innebriated, and as a result I am split 50/50 on the issue. I do believe that the police should be held at least partially responsible but I also don't think the suit is necesary.
I agree with this post more than anything. Also of note, the Brandon Police Service put the involved members on administrated leave and conducted an internal review shortly after the incident. I can't remember the exact details but I'm pretty sure the review committee found that it was reasonable to believe (through Terence's actions and state of intoxication at the time) that he was not a danger to himself or anyone else when they released him. They found that enough time had passed during the testing and processing that he was no longer intoxicated and showed no indicating signs of what he might do. Obviously he acted differently once he was released.

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05-11-2004, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Don_Cherry
The Tootoo family, including Jordin, have filed a lawsuit against the Brandon Police Service and another man for damages resulting from the suicide of Jordin's brother Terence.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...11/454544.html

The police have been accused of contributing to his death by failing to turn him over to a sober adult after he was arrested for drunk driving. They are also sueing a man (who I think was Jordin's former billet when he played for the Wheat Kings) because he owned the shot gun Terence used. They allege the gun wasn't registered or properly stored.

It's hard for me to weigh in on this one because I didn't lose a brother or a son. However, from the outside looking in it seems to me to be unnecessary. Personally, I think I would grieve and move on.
Why do you think it's unnecessary? Because of the direct result of Brandon police failing to follow procedure, Terence comitted suicide. I would sue the pants off the police if this happened to my son. If Terence's death was natural, I would agree with you 100%. However, this suicide could have been prevented by having an adult there to talk to him and avoid this tragedy from even happening.

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05-11-2004, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydroponic Harold
I know from my experience in the drunk tank in the past ..that they usually release you at 11.00 am the following day ..only after your sobered up .
Well, I can tell you as a fact that virtually everyone who gets charged with impaired is released after been booked.

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05-11-2004, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolemite
Because of the direct result of Brandon police failing to follow procedure, Terence comitted suicide.
However, this suicide could have been prevented by having an adult there to talk to him and avoid this tragedy from even happening.
How do you know that? What procedure didnt they follow which was a direct result of his death?
Should the police incarcerate everyone who has been drinking until such time as they sober up or release them to another adult?
In tragedies like this, there is likely alot going on in a persons background, family & otherwise, that is the root cause.

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05-11-2004, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
How do you know that? What procedure didnt they follow which was a direct result of his death?
Should the police incarcerate everyone who has been drinking until such time as they sober up or release them to another adult?
In tragedies like this, there is likely alot going on in a persons background, family & otherwise, that is the root cause.
Sources

1) CBC Special on the Tootoo Brothers (http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/tootoo.html)
2) The article at the beginning of this thread.
3) Google

It was a failure of Brandon Police procedure for not releasing a minor to an adult/guardian.

Let me ask you this, if you and a friend went bar hopping where ever you live and let's say your friend got really drunk. When really wasted you knew your friend was probably going to do something stupid would you 1) leave them in an alley and go home or 2) keep an eye on them until you knew they were safe and out of any potential danger?

This is the basis for the Brandon police procedure that wasn't followed.

You're right about the background may having an effect on what Terence did (watch the CBC Special if you're in Canada or a US State bordering Canada). However, wouldn't you agree that having the police hand Terence off to an adult, with MUCH more life experience thant Terence, would be a better solution than just dropping him off alone, at home?

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05-11-2004, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dolemite
Sources

1) CBC Special on the Tootoo Brothers (http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/tootoo.html)
2) The article at the beginning of this thread.
3) Google

It was a failure of Brandon Police procedure for not releasing a minor to an adult/guardian.

Let me ask you this, if you and a friend went bar hopping where ever you live and let's say your friend got really drunk. When really wasted you knew your friend was probably going to do something stupid would you 1) leave them in an alley and go home or 2) keep an eye on them until you knew they were safe and out of any potential danger?

This is the basis for the Brandon police procedure that wasn't followed.

You're right about the background may having an effect on what Terence did (watch the CBC Special if you're in Canada or a US State bordering Canada). However, wouldn't you agree that having the police hand Terence off to an adult, with MUCH more life experience thant Terence, would be a better solution than just dropping him off alone, at home?
First of all, he was 22, nowhere close to been a minor. Second of all, I guess the cops are supposed to babysit every drunk guy they come into contact with to ensure that he doesnt do anything stupid while drunk. Thirdly, you offer a conclusion as to the fact his suicide was a direct result of the Brandon ploice force not following protocol, as if thats a fact. Its not, its an opinion.
Again, in my opinion this an attempted cash grap by the family, (though I do feel great sympathy for their profound loss) where the total blame based on what I know of the facts lies with the unfortunate victm, together with god who knows, but not the cops or the family where the shotgun was.


Last edited by Sammy*: 05-11-2004 at 04:59 PM.
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05-11-2004, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
First of all, he was 22, nowhere close to been a minor. Second of all, I guess the cops are supposed to babysit every drunk guy they come into contact with to ensure that he doesnt do anything stupid while drunk. Thirdly, you offer a conclusion as to the fact his suicide was a direct result of the Brandon ploice force not following protocol, as if thats a fact. Its not, its an opinion.
Again, in my opinion this an attempted cash grap by the family, (though I do feel great sympathy for their profound loss) where the total blame based on what I know of the facts lies with the unfortunate victm, together with god who knows, but not the cops or the family where the shotgun was.
Well, the fact of the matter is that the Brandon Police failed to follow written procedure regarless of how old he was.


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