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OHL vs NCAA eligibility

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Old
05-05-2010, 11:03 AM
  #26
Hotsauce
 
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I try to explain to people that, by a player receiving 100/week for 8 months out of a year they are considered a PRO by NCAA only?

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05-05-2010, 12:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hotsauce View Post
I try to explain to people that, by a player receiving 100/week for 8 months out of a year they are considered a PRO by NCAA only?
It's their ball is it not?

Do "O" players receive any other inducement besides $100 a week? Do some of them have nice cars? Apartments? Is there any prohibition on the teams or their advertisers to offer these?

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05-05-2010, 12:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Edges7 View Post
The solution is for the CHL to not allow ANY inducements to be paid to amatuer players...
The issue has nothing to do with what they are paid, the issue is that the NCAA considers them to be ineligible because they play next to players who have signed pro contracts.

Thats why NCAA players previously could not take part in NHL camps.

The payment of $50-100 has little to do with NCAA eligibility, at least thats what I have been
told by personal from some colleges that I have talked with.

One of my former players chose not to recieve weekly meal money, and did not recieve anything while playing in the CHL (played for his own equipment, had the bills to prove it) and the NCAA told him he was still not eligible after a handful of OHL games because he had played beside professionals.

I just hope that it gets worked out, I think if they both work together they could really work in favour of the kids, which is what should be the goal to begin with.

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05-05-2010, 01:07 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
The issue has nothing to do with what they are paid, the issue is that the NCAA considers them to be ineligible because they play next to players who have signed pro contracts.

The payment of $50-100 has little to do with NCAA eligibility, at least thats what I have been told by personal from some colleges that I have talked with.
If you talk to the colleges that is the response you will get. If you talk to the NCAA both of the above carry nearly equal weight but trust me when I tell you that the payment IS a big issue to the NCAA.

Again let's play pretend here and suddenly Major Junior players can play in NCAA. So again I ask, would the CHL be willing to monitor players who have so committed or are being recruited, to ensure that the recruiting rules in affect for the NCAA, e.g. NO alumni visits or inducements, are obeyed?

That question has been asked, albeit informally, of the CHL and the answer has always been "NO".

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05-05-2010, 01:09 PM
  #30
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In reality, the issue isn't playing next to a player that's receiving money or any other type of inducement.
The real issue is control over the players and profit. Once a player signs with a pro team the NCAA team would start to lose control over them and if the school also had to give the kids some type of fiscal allowance it will take away from the bottom line.
Of course it's fine to make the kids play for free while the administration personal being paid well into the 100's of thousands of dollars. Some football and basketball coaches makes millions a year while the kids can't receive a free bag of chips!

I just feel like the NCAA is living back in the early 1900's in how they treat their employees!

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05-05-2010, 01:12 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RedwhiteandGreen View Post
Depends both on the team and the player. A team with deep pockets (eg. Windsor, London) may offer a 1st round pick a lot more than a smaller market team. Basic (minimum) promise is one year of tuition & books at a local state college for each year played in the CHL. If you're the top pick of a top team, you might be able to negotiate four years tuition, books, room & board at Oxford in England with a nice SUV (or total cash equivalent) before you play your first game. Not cynical - that's just the way it is.
Not to change subjects or digress but that picture you have is a classic 70's hockey face and given my loyalty to a different team it would have made a great center for my dartboard...


Last edited by Edges7: 05-05-2010 at 01:20 PM.
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05-05-2010, 01:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
I just feel like the NCAA is living back in the early 1900's in how they treat their employees!

You're over analyzing. Control is an issue but not of the players.

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05-05-2010, 01:34 PM
  #33
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I know good hockey players get "recruited" from Mites to Midgets. Recruited equals incentives that would make NCAA guys busy disqualifying prospects.

To date I know of NONEe who lost a spot on a NCAA recruiting violation?

Does anyone know of one who got a free ___ and lost a D1??

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05-05-2010, 01:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hotsauce View Post
I know good hockey players get "recruited" from Mites to Midgets. Recruited equals incentives that would make NCAA guys busy disqualifying prospects.

To date I know of NONEe who lost a spot on a NCAA recruiting violation?

Does anyone know of one who got a free ___ and lost a D1??
None of my players have ever gotten that attention, however there was one player that I know of who made a NCAA commitment that was treated very well when the school came down to visit him. He was given gifts, not huge, but he was. Weather or not that was against NCAA policy, I can not speak to.

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05-05-2010, 01:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Hotsauce View Post
I know good hockey players get "recruited" from Mites to Midgets. Recruited equals incentives that would make NCAA guys busy disqualifying prospects.
Point 1 - There was a situation last year in the Atlantic District that was handled at the league level in which kids, teams and coaches were suspended or restricted because of recruiting of youth hockey players. One of those involved is presently a rostered NHL player.

Point 2 - All NCAA atheletes go through a type of pre approval process in which their eligibility is determined. A college hockey recruit will most certainly have Major Junior contacts scrutinized. And if you don't believe that anyone has ever been ruled ineligible for this ex post facto I suggest that you google Michael Peca's family tree.


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05-05-2010, 02:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
Weather [sic] or not that was against NCAA policy, I can not speak to.
If it was team related, like a sweatshirt or jersey, no. If not, you've hit directly on the NCAA/CHL issue. NCAA has 0 way of determining or monitoring the behavior of schools/alumni outside of the US. And in a sport like hockey, that is a major issue.

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05-07-2010, 04:25 PM
  #37
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Sorry for another stupid question...

Is it 48 hrs TOTAL or 48 hrs each time you report? So if you go to the rookie camp and spend 42 hrs does that mean you have 6 hrs left for the main camp?

thanks in advance

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05-07-2010, 04:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by stratosphere View Post
Sorry for another stupid question...

Is it 48 hrs TOTAL or 48 hrs each time you report? So if you go to the rookie camp and spend 42 hrs does that mean you have 6 hrs left for the main camp?

thanks in advance
As far as I know no it is not, you can do both for 48 hours.

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05-07-2010, 05:17 PM
  #39
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forget camps. It is 48 hours payed by the club period if that be rookie or main camp. If a player wishes to stay longer they may stay at their own expense...

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05-13-2010, 09:06 AM
  #40
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On the OHL scholarship money, it is my understanding that the "basic" school money is for every year of OHL play the player receives 1 year of tuition $ based on the avg tuition of the closest universities to them. ie. if you are in Ottawa, it would be based on Ott U and Carleton. So lets say it is 10K a year, you get 10K for every year you play.

That is the basics of the plan. As I know it, a lot of kids drafted high to the OHL will only sign if they are "guaranteed" a certain amount. ie, maybe it is 40K even if they are injured or released after a year. If they want you bad enough, its all negotiable, that is part of the reason it is considered a "professional" league.

The caveat is that you have to use it a certain time after graduating (maybe 1 year?) from the OHL. If you sign a pro contract ANYWHERE, the $ is gone.

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05-13-2010, 09:48 AM
  #41
Ward Cornell
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Originally Posted by cjfuture View Post
The caveat is that you have to use it a certain time after graduating (maybe 1 year?) from the OHL. If you sign a pro contract ANYWHERE, the $ is gone.
You can sign and play pro and NOT lose the scholarship money.
The minimum amount of time you can play I believe is one year. But like the scholarship amount the length of time not losing the scholarship money is also negotiable.
I know some players have a 2 or 3 year window.

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05-13-2010, 10:12 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
You can sign and play pro and NOT lose the scholarship money.
The minimum amount of time you can play I believe is one year. But like the scholarship amount the length of time not losing the scholarship money is also negotiable.
I know some players have a 2 or 3 year window.
Plus CIS schools offer Athletic Financial Awards on top of the CHL scholarships. CHL grads are the most highly recruited. So guess who gets the best AFA's. There's 60 CHL teams and 33 CIS teams, the competition can be fierce.
Although not OHL, but I attend a lot of Q games (and AUS games) and at almost every game you can see AUS coaches and staff in attendance drooling. The Q released a stat this year that 95.4% of North American players attended school up from 65% in 1985.
http://www.lhjmq.qc.ca/lang_en/index..._nouvelle=2507.
I'm sure that the trend is similar in the Dub and OHL.
The streotype that education and hockey isn't available in Canada has changed significantly.


Last edited by Alpine: 05-13-2010 at 10:26 AM.
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05-13-2010, 10:24 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfuture View Post
On the OHL scholarship money, it is my understanding that the "basic" school money is for every year of OHL play the player receives 1 year of tuition $ based on the avg tuition of the closest universities to them. ie. if you are in Ottawa, it would be based on Ott U and Carleton. So lets say it is 10K a year, you get 10K for every year you play.

That is the basics of the plan. As I know it, a lot of kids drafted high to the OHL will only sign if they are "guaranteed" a certain amount. ie, maybe it is 40K even if they are injured or released after a year. If they want you bad enough, its all negotiable, that is part of the reason it is considered a "professional" league.

The caveat is that you have to use it a certain time after graduating (maybe 1 year?) from the OHL. If you sign a pro contract ANYWHERE, the $ is gone.
Hopefully the OHL does not limit their athletes the way that you say, I know the WHL scholarship extends outside of a student's closest university. To that end, we have Jason Bast and Derek Claffey who just committed to St FX and Michael Stickland committing to St Mary's, all of which who will be getting a free education while continuing to play hockey at a competitive level.

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05-13-2010, 10:42 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Hipfan View Post
Hopefully the OHL does not limit their athletes the way that you say, I know the WHL scholarship extends outside of a student's closest university. To that end, we have Jason Bast and Derek Claffey who just committed to St FX and Michael Stickland committing to St Mary's, all of which who will be getting a free education while continuing to play hockey at a competitive level.
The Q scholarship is a little different maybe. The player has to take a set number of courses and pass those courses to maintain his scholarship through out his Q time. All tuition, books and fees are paid by the Q and it's teams whilst playing in the Q.
But these scholarships can be used at any University, Community College or Trade School of his choosing. If he continues in hockey or not.


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05-13-2010, 11:00 AM
  #45
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But these scholarships can be used at any University, Community College or Trade School of his choosing. If he continues in hockey or not.
Same thing as the OHL.

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05-13-2010, 11:22 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
Same thing as the OHL.
That is why the CHL is not only the number 1 supplier of players to the NHL/AHL but now also the top supplier to CIS teams.

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05-13-2010, 01:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Hipfan View Post
Hopefully the OHL does not limit their athletes the way that you say, I know the WHL scholarship extends outside of a student's closest university. To that end, we have Jason Bast and Derek Claffey who just committed to St FX and Michael Stickland committing to St Mary's, all of which who will be getting a free education while continuing to play hockey at a competitive level.
They can go anywhere, but the $ value is based on current university tuition near them...this is the basic premise...top picks and their representives, negotiate there own deals. Johnny 4th line plugger, get the basic plan.

The universities can offer finacial aid on top of this as well. The better players who do not move on in their careers to pro, who chose to go to university, can does 4 years of CIS, anywhere in Canada.

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05-13-2010, 10:44 PM
  #48
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The NCAA hockey minds seem cognitively impaired and have been for some time.
Playing CHL hockey in Kootenay is not "professional" hockey. No one in Canada is dumb enough to believe that fiction. Eating at Dairy Queen somewhere on a 12 hour road trip in the WHL doesn't sound like compensation, nor does $50 bucks a week to put gas in a beater car sound like remuneration to me.
I seriously doubt that the tall foreheads of the NCAA have ever actually talked to a high school principal or teacher in Canada about how good the CHL scholarship programme is and how it is an excellent way to get an education and play hockey.
Hard to believe that 48 hours at some useless scrimmages or playing some meaningless exhibition games makes a 16 year old kid a pro.
The NCAA is pretty much stuck in a time warp.


Last edited by WheatiesHockey: 05-13-2010 at 11:09 PM.
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05-28-2010, 12:53 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by WheatiesHockey View Post
The NCAA hockey minds seem cognitively impaired and have been for some time.
Playing CHL hockey in Kootenay is not "professional" hockey. No one in Canada is dumb enough to believe that fiction. Eating at Dairy Queen somewhere on a 12 hour road trip in the WHL doesn't sound like compensation, nor does $50 bucks a week to put gas in a beater car sound like remuneration to me.
I seriously doubt that the tall foreheads of the NCAA have ever actually talked to a high school principal or teacher in Canada about how good the CHL scholarship programme is and how it is an excellent way to get an education and play hockey.
Hard to believe that 48 hours at some useless scrimmages or playing some meaningless exhibition games makes a 16 year old kid a pro.
The NCAA is pretty much stuck in a time warp.
The NCAA is just trying to keep the best Americans in their system and out of the CHL. If all the good americans left and played in the CHL, the level of hockey played in the NCAA would suck alot.... so it would be just a little bit worse than what it is now.

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05-28-2010, 01:23 PM
  #50
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A lot depends on what part of the USA a player comes from and where they choose to play.
Kids from California do not seem to be hooked into the scholastic route so one sees players like Etem playing on Medicine Hat. Kids from Alaska might take either the NCAA or DUB route.
Kids from Minnesota and North Dakota almost always go the NCAA route. For kids from Michigan it can go either way. Cam Fowler gave up a full ride scholarship at Notre Dame to play for the Windsor Spitfires.
Canada has a much more unitary system of youth hockey and junior hockey. In the USA there are several systems at work. Kids in southern California play in an entirely different hockey world than kids in Roseau, Minnesota.

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