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Old
05-09-2004, 01:41 PM
  #1
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Those who saw Lundqvist

What were your impressions? Who would you compare to in terms of style of play?

From what I saw, he is not ready to be a #1 goalie in the NHL and certainly not with this defense in front of him. He looked poised, kept it simple and made some saves but he did not look settled to me. The Swedish defense also played very well in front of him. There is no doubt that he has talent but he is not there yet IMO.

So, assuming he signs and comes to North America, what would you do with him? Back up a vet (presumably Dunham)? Start him in Hartford?

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05-09-2004, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
What were your impressions? Who would you compare to in terms of style of play?

From what I saw, he is not ready to be a #1 goalie in the NHL and certainly not with this defense in front of him. He looked poised, kept it simple and made some saves but he did not look settled to me. The Swedish defense also played very well in front of him. There is no doubt that he has talent but he is not there yet IMO.

So, assuming he signs and comes to North America, what would you do with him? Back up a vet (presumably Dunham)? Start him in Hartford?
doh!!! where were the games televised and will there be any other showings?

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05-09-2004, 01:47 PM
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I'd start him in Hartford. Give him some time to adjust to the NA game. I think it won't be a favor playing behind the Rangers defense 2003 / 04.

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05-09-2004, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by in the hall
doh!!! where were the games televised and will there be any other showings?

They showed the US-Sweden (Lundqvist vs. Dunham) game on ESPN2 yesterday evening.

I would doubt they would replay the game and they more than likely will not show the Canada-Sweden final.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 05-09-2004 at 01:54 PM.
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05-09-2004, 01:50 PM
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before the goalie thread was closed i was about to post my plan which had him as a 40% back up

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05-09-2004, 01:59 PM
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He looked decent... He didn't seem to get that much work.

He was solid, but unspectacular.

I think the Rangers should bring Lundvquist and Blackburn to training camp, and see what happens. I would definately put Blackburn in Hartford because he needs to be the go-to-guy for the first time since he was about 16.

As for Lundqvist, let's see what he has. Maybe he can play 35-40 games for the Rangers next year, but he also might be better served for Hartford. I don't think you'll know for sure until you put him between the pipes against NHL teams.

Time will tell.

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05-09-2004, 02:14 PM
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Well first thing first...Henrik Lundqvuist has posted an amazing 1.15 GAA and a Save % of .945 in a tournament filled with NHL er's. In addition, he is now ranked as the #1 Sweedish prospect by eliteprospects.com.

From what I saw: Sweeden did play excellent defense in front of Henrik so we didn't get a chance to see him make really tough saves. He likes to come out and challenge the shooter on the long range shots and relies on his reflexes in tight. His reflexes looked quick on the 2 - 1 where he kicked out his pad and then the net got knocked off. His style reminds me of Kiprosoff a bit, but I would need to see him more to be sure. All in all he did not seem to look shaky but on occasion he needed to better control rebounds.

For next season I would see what he does in camp and take it from there. If I were to guess I would say that he starts in Hartford, but the fact remains that we have a very good goalie prospect on our hands who may very well be a permanant fixture between the pipes for the blueshirts for years to come.

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05-09-2004, 02:21 PM
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Can't judge someone on one game, especially a goalie.

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05-09-2004, 02:29 PM
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For the record, I was impressed with Lundqvist. He's a lot bigger than advertised, has at least passable puckhandling skills, and stayed calm and poised, despite a ton of traffic in his crease (indeed, he got run several times and didn't get the call. Strange refereeing). He did seem to have a little trouble with his rebound control though . . . nothing awful. Just noticed him fumbling a bit.

Still, it'd be absolute lunacy to drop him in the NHL in his first year of North American hockey. The adjustment in rink size, rules, styles of play, et al, should keep him in Hartford for a minimum of one year. Probably two or three years is a more realistic projection. Goalies take time to develop, probably more so than any other position, and the Rangers should be prepared to be very patient indeed.

I'd bring in Lundqvist, re-sign McLennan, and keep Dunham, at least until the deadline. Dunham and McLennan play in NY at first, but if Labarberra can beat out McLennan, I give him the back-up job in NY. If he can't, then I'd trade him so he doesn't eat up time from Lundqvist and Blackburn in Hartford. Labarberra's learned all he can with the Wolfpack, and it's time to get up, or get out. Blackburn and Lundqvist split time in Hartford (40ish starts a piece is plenty of development time for a young goaltender, and competition is a good thing.)

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05-09-2004, 02:43 PM
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sounds like Lundqvist is doing ok in the game right this moment.

I agree totally that it'd be absolute lunacy to pitch him straight in the NHL.

European goalies will take a good while to develop as a rule. And Lundqvist should have his time in the AHL.

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05-09-2004, 03:39 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
What were your impressions? Who would you compare to in terms of style of play?

From what I saw, he is not ready to be a #1 goalie in the NHL and certainly not with this defense in front of him. He looked poised, kept it simple and made some saves but he did not look settled to me. The Swedish defense also played very well in front of him. There is no doubt that he has talent but he is not there yet IMO.

So, assuming he signs and comes to North America, what would you do with him? Back up a vet (presumably Dunham)? Start him in Hartford?
SingnBluesOnBroadway... Lundqvist looded steady BUT I question if he is ready for the NHL. I saw him go down and cover both sides of the net BUT he left the top part of the net open. I just thought the goal by Park was a great shot but I saw him leave the top corner open several times.

NHL players will look to shoot high on him and take advantage of this flaw. This is the only game that I saw him play so its not fair to judge him on one game. He also make some great saves and didn't allow alot of rebounds. I like what I saw of him but feel a year (or 20 game starts) in the AHL will show us more.

Lunquvist looks like he can develope into a good on. He is a keeper.

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05-09-2004, 05:17 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsrangers
SingnBluesOnBroadway... Lundqvist looded steady BUT I question if he is ready for the NHL. I saw him go down and cover both sides of the net BUT he left the top part of the net open. I just thought the goal by Park was a great shot but I saw him leave the top corner open several times.

NHL players will look to shoot high on him and take advantage of this flaw. This is the only game that I saw him play so its not fair to judge him on one game. He also make some great saves and didn't allow alot of rebounds. I like what I saw of him but feel a year (or 20 game starts) in the AHL will show us more.

Lunquvist looks like he can develope into a good on. He is a keeper.

Thats more or less how I saw it too.

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05-09-2004, 06:13 PM
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Rangerhead...

there may be a fair amount of NHLers in the tournament, but it's a b-level cast for the most part. Richard Park seems to be a high scorer in this tourney....not indicative of NHL reality. Further, I think Sweden plays a very good style of defense - both in the elite league and in this tournament, which aids him somewhat. He's like a Brodeur - doesn't seem to get overly challenged, but gets the job done that he needs to get done.

As for his play, I'm not sure he's currently an NHL backup. As mentioned in other threads, I'm not 100% convinced that he's leagues better, or will be leagues better, than Labarbera, who at 24, has been mostly thrown aside and relegated to a career AHLer, with seemingly no chance as an NHL starter, let alone backup. So where does he play? Let's see how he, Blackie and Labarera and whoever comes to camp and wins the spots that may be open.

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05-09-2004, 09:34 PM
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Lundqvist looked good, but wasn't really tested all that often. Handled traffic and the puck relatively well, which was a concern. Was hung out to dry by his D on Park's goal, so that's not a factor. Is arguably the best goalie in the best non-NHL league in the world, so if he's not NHL-caliber, who is? Still probably needs to play in Hartford for a while to acclimate.

Labarbera has come a long way. He lost his suspect conditioning and suspect attitude (When pulled from a Charlotte Checkers playoff game, he threw his stick down the dressing room tunnel, where it bounced off the wall and hit an 8 year-old fan in the head. The ECHL handed down an 18-game suspension.)

He had a monster AHL season, but was playing behind a very good defensive team that kept SOG low and scoring chances to the outside. Osaer and Valiquette also put up excellent numbers for Hartford (though not as good as Jason's). Against NHL shooters with the Rangers' defense in front of him, his poor lateral motion is likely to be exposed.

Still, I wouldn't dream of moving him until Lundqvist is signed and it's certain that Blackburn will be ready to start the season. I don't think he'd bring much on draft day anyway.

Labarbara's only potential role with the team next year is as NHL backup goalie. If he can't take it up to the next level this season, he's just hindering Blackburn and Lundqvist.

I'm willing to give him a chance to earn that spot. However, the "come to camp and win a spot" method for assigning goaltenders doesn't work like it would for skaters. With 5-6 high-level goalies competing in camp, how much time will there be to evaluate them? 2 preseason games each?

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05-10-2004, 08:05 AM
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Lundqvist selected to the 1st all star team...

All-star teams picked by the press:

1: GK: Henrik Lundqvist
D: Zdeno Chara - Dick Tärnström
F: Dany Heatley- Jaromir Jagr- Ville Peltonen

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05-10-2004, 08:40 AM
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bmoak...

how's the defense behind which Lundqvist plays? I don't know the Elite league too well and have seen, maybe, parts of one game in my life, but I do not often see high scoring in that league. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but generally, there's some good defense being played. Goalie stats from the top teams are: 2.23/.923; 2.40/.902; 1.69/.939; 2.21/.907; 1.22/.914; 2.46/.910; 2.39/.905; and 2.73/.905 (note: excludes two bottom teams; stats are for starting goaltenders - Henrik is 2.17/.927 - good for third in the league for both among starters, but fourth and fifth aren't too far off).

Granted Lundqvist is putting up top numbers there, but are his numbers that much better than Labarbera's - and, when given the additional workload, Lundqvist's numbers dropped dramatically (1.45 vs. 2.17 GAA; .948 vs. .927 save %). Further, off the top of my head, I can't think of a lot of goalies successful in the Swedish league who, of recent mind, made a big splash in the NHL (that's not suggesting there aren't, but I can't think of many right now).

I'm not trying to knock Lundqvist, as I hope the kid's the real deal and I am excited about him, but I'm not sure tossing Labarbera away is the right thing to do right now; and in North America, I'm not 100% sure that Lundqvist will be better than Labarbera. He's got the leg-up due to international competition, but the real competition starts in September.


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05-10-2004, 09:14 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rangers
Lundqvist selected to the 1st all star team...

All-star teams picked by the press:

1: GK: Henrik Lundqvist
D: Zdeno Chara - Dick Tärnström
F: Dany Heatley- Jaromir Jagr- Ville Peltonen
these are picks by the journalists.

officially best players at the tourney were
Ty Conklin (who was absolutely spectacular vs Czechs and Slovakia and who should have played vs Sweden) - best GK
Dick Tarnstrom best D
Dany Heatley best F

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05-10-2004, 10:10 AM
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Fletch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
there may be a fair amount of NHLers in the tournament, but it's a b-level cast for the most part. Richard Park seems to be a high scorer in this tourney....not indicative of NHL reality. Further, I think Sweden plays a very good style of defense - both in the elite league and in this tournament, which aids him somewhat. He's like a Brodeur - doesn't seem to get overly challenged, but gets the job done that he needs to get done.

As for his play, I'm not sure he's currently an NHL backup. As mentioned in other threads, I'm not 100% convinced that he's leagues better, or will be leagues better, than Labarbera, who at 24, has been mostly thrown aside and relegated to a career AHLer, with seemingly no chance as an NHL starter, let alone backup. So where does he play? Let's see how he, Blackie and Labarera and whoever comes to camp and wins the spots that may be open.

Don't underestimate the talent that's in the World Championships. Heatley, Murray, Jagr, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Hossa, Demitra are just a few names that took part in this tournament. Also many of the players with the big hockey countrys' that we are not familiar with could probably play on at least the 3rd or 4th line in the NHL. Remember these players represent the best for their country - except those still in the NHL playoffs.
As for the amount of goals scored in the Sweedish elite league - it's very caparable to the NHL.

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05-10-2004, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by RANGERDIEHARD
Don't underestimate the talent that's in the World Championships. Heatley, Murray, Jagr, Kovalchuk, Gaborik, Hossa, Demitra are just a few names that took part in this tournament. Also many of the players with the big <a href="http://www.ntsearch.com/search.php?q=hockey&v=55">hockey</a> countrys' that we are not familiar with could probably play on at least the 3rd or 4th line in the NHL. Remember these players represent the best for their country - except those still in the NHL playoffs.
As for the amount of goals scored in the Sweedish elite league - it's very caparable to the NHL.
Against slovakia he apparently stopped a few breakaways. I cant remember the exact players but I think they included Hossa and Demitra. I think its quite funny the way people downplay a player after hes been hyped. I believe it is partly so they can say "I told you so" when he fails. I think hes had a solid tournament. Hes played the majority of Swedens games and has been solid, what more can you ask for?

I believe next year we should go with lababera and Dunham initially. I think Mike may come in a new player, especially if hes recovere fully from his injury and if we get a GOALIE COACH. I think Balckburn and Lundquist should split the duties in Hartford 50 -50. Lundquist gets used to NA gently and Blackburn is able to get back into his game without having pressure or a workload that is too big or small.

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05-10-2004, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london ranger
these are picks by the journalists.

officially best players at the tourney were
Ty Conklin (who was absolutely spectacular vs Czechs and Slovakia and who should have played vs Sweden) - best GK
Dick Tarnstrom best D
Dany Heatley best F
Yes...and that`s why I wrote All Star team picked by the press...

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05-10-2004, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BLACKBURN
Against slovakia he apparently stopped a few breakaways. I cant remember the exact players but I think they included Hossa and Demitra. I think its quite funny the way people downplay a player after hes been hyped. I believe it is partly so they can say "I told you so" when he fails. I think hes had a solid tournament. Hes played the majority of Swedens games and has been solid, what more can you ask for?

I believe next year we should go with lababera and Dunham initially. I think Mike may come in a new player, especially if hes recovere fully from his injury and if we get a GOALIE COACH. I think Balckburn and Lundquist should split the duties in Hartford 50 -50. Lundquist gets used to NA gently and Blackburn is able to get back into his game without having pressure or a workload that is too big or small.
he stopped each of Hossa, Demitra and Gaborik on breakaways

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05-10-2004, 11:23 AM
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Exactly Blacburn...

I want to say I told you so when he fails. In fact, I hope he fails and doesn't become a star NHL player for the Rangers. Unfortunately I can't say I told-you-so because I've never said he will fail. What I am saying, and have said, is that I don't see Larbarbera being discarded so quickly (which was implied by others, not you) and Lundqvist and Blackburn being the incumbents right off the bat. I personally hope at least one of these three can be the Rangers goaltender of the future - right now, it's tough to tell, but I hope all three work out, and the ones that do not remain, can be traded for something of value in the future.

And splitting time in Hartford most likely won't happen (at least if McGill's coach). One of the reasons for the 'Pack's success this season is they didn't go with a platoon system - a #1 was named (Labarbera) and we've seen the results. If Lundqvist and Blackie were platooning, you'd be stunting one of them of growth. One needs to carry the workload and be better prepared for 50-60 NHL games in the near future. Playing 40 AHL games doesn't do that as well as playing 60 AHL games, and all the playoff games.

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05-10-2004, 04:05 PM
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I'm beginning to think that we are jumping the gun here. Has anyone heard any progress reports on Blackburn? I know I haven't and while the last report was very encouraging, there was no timetable about the expected pace of Blackburn's recovery. We need to keep in mind that the surgery only corrected one issue--the nerve damage--and that it will take quite a bit of time for Blackburn to regain the muscle control and strength that he's lost. Only then, will he be able to start working on regaining coordination and all the little things that are needed to be a successful goalie. I'm not suggesting that Blackburn won't regain everything he lost, just that it won't necessarily be a quick process and that he may not be ready to start 60 games this coming fall.

That being said, I think Lundqvist has jumped ahead of him on the depth chart. He's played--very well--in one of the top leagues outside of the NHL for the last several seasons and just had a very successful World Championship. He's in the running for playing in the World Cup--it's not like there's another Swedish goalie who's been playing better recently in the NHL. I don't know what the Ranger brass think of him, but it would appear that this kid is on the fast track to a job in the NHL. I would hope that the Powers That Be don't start looking at Lundqvist as the franchise savior and let him take the time he needs to get used to the smaller rinks. But, a starting job in the organization--most likely for the Wolfpack-- is his to lose at the moment.

So where does that leave LaBarbera? If you ask me, he's earned the right to at least try and keep his job as a #1 AHL goaltender. And the best thing that could happen to Jason--and the Rangers--is that he's traded to an organization that will give him the chance to prove that this year is not his best year and that he can build on it to something better.

People talk all the time here about potential and very simply Lundqvist has the potential to be a starting goaltender in the NHL in the very near future. Blackburn--assuming he overcomes his physical setback--also has that potential. LaBarbera has come further than most people thought possible, but hasn't shown that potential to this point. This organization needs to make sure that Lundqvist and Blackburn are given every opportunity to develop their potential. Playing behind Jason LaBarbera is NOT the way to develop that potential.

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05-10-2004, 04:47 PM
  #24
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I am not ready to throw away labarbera just yet, he has played well for the pack and at least deserves a chance to compete in camp for a job, however i am not sure if he is nhl material and even if he is, it may just be with another team because as good as he has been in the ahl, he is clearly a product of the system down there. there are so many blocked shots, the pack play as a team and play defense something the rangers do not and that is why labarbera looked so awful at times for the rangers because there was no support or defensive play in front of him

put him on a team like the flyers, wild, tampa, or a team that play defense and he could be a nhl back-up goalie, i never see him as a starter, but he has worked very hard to get where he is at regardless of the team that is in front of him, he deserves a chance in camp to at least show what he can do

the way i feel about our goaltending depends on who is brought in as our coach, if we bring up mcgill or bring in a coach that will play defense first or use the trap than labarbera may be a very serviceable backup netminder, now if we bring the usual sather coach, no clue, then labarbera can either split time with lundqvist in hartford, be traded, or be our backup here and lose his confidence nightly

everything depends on the coach that is hired and the X-factor, blackburn's health, if blackie is healthy to start camp, then labarbera either has to earn the back-up job or he will most likely become expendable with blackie and lunqdvist at the pack

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05-11-2004, 11:16 AM
  #25
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Ok Fletch calm down. I was not directing any comments at you so dont make it personal. I just said that some people on HF boards are negative about certain players so they look smart when they fail, it was not an attack, just an observation. A few people on this thread have said they werent blown away by his play including you yes, but not just you.

Anyway back to the topic, I Personally feel that Lundquist played a solid, un-spectacular game this tournament. He has been a little overhyped recently but dont let that take away from how he has played.

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