towerbrook is smart to get out now. when checketts took over he had an opportunity to establish a foothold on the st. louis sports dollar. at the time both the rams and cardinals were struggling. in the years that checketts and company have run the team they have accomplished little. in about 4 years they made the playoffs only one year in a league where nearly half the teams make the playoffs. you can talk all you want about building an organization from the bottom up but people want to see results. considering all the opportunities to improve the team the management has failed badly. i understand things take time but seriously they have enough time to produce something. even though the blues made the playoffs last year they were swept in the first round. everyone talks about how good the blues prospect are. i just dont see it. are there any all stars on the team now? NO are any of the prospects in the system rated as a cant miss all star ? NO the cardinals have pujols and now the rams have bradford to bring in the casual fan. who do the blues have that people would pay to see? NOBODY. finally i think there are too many teams in the nhl. it was a big mistake to expand to places like columbus, atlanta, and nashville. i also think moving teams to texas and arizona was dumb. hockey is a cold weather sport and is played where they at least have some ice part of the year. thats why its called ice hockey.
faninoregon, I can tell you're a passionate fan, good on you.
I have to disagree though, I think management is doing the best they can to improve the team. Look how long it took Pittsburgh to become the force they are; they were a laughing stock from about 2002 to 2007 even with many high draft picks, but once they nurtured and developed, they became the force they are now. Look at Washington; they had some good players in Jagr, Lang, and Bondra, but they sold them off and rebuilt after 2004. It took them four years to make the playoffs. I'll also throw Chicago in there, they had a similar path as Pittsburgh and it took them a long time to make it back to postseason.
As for making a splash, I'd love to see a huge free agent come to St. Louis, but with those signings comes some huge cap commitments. As seen with McKee and Kariya, two mid-tier signings, it will take a lot of money to lure a player to St. Louis at the moment ahead of other teams. If management is going to make a gamble on a guy like Marleau or Kovalchuk, they a) have to be positive that they'll get a good return on their investment, and b) the signing won't have negative implications on signing our developed young players.
Like 2MM said, I'm looking forward to draft day and July 1st. I'm not sure if I can handle the Cardinals at the moment with their current woes.
You read the part where the franchise has increased in value $26 million in 4 years, right?
And remember the deal about finishing last in the league a few years ago...to being the best team not in the playoffs (and better than a few that were, in the East)?
I think Towerbrook is getting out BECAUSE the Blues have been successful in rebuilding the franchise. The fan base has returned. Ticket revenues are starting to increase. A playoff run this coming season and the team is in the black with a young core that would lead you to expect they'll be a threat for a long time. They're cashing in a return on their investment, when a buyer is identified.
Yes, the front office has some work to do to finish assembling the team, but good grief they have cap room, assets and a bright young group of emerging NHL players.
This is a great time to be a Blues fan. I don't get all the negativity. Its just a business decision, based purely on investment potential. The easy money from bringing a lifeless team back to respectability has already been earned. Now the returns will be less due to changes in the tax law (and likely some juicier opportunities elsewhere for Towerbrook).
We need to get to July 1st so people have actual hockey stuff to worry about, instead of playing amateur corporate investor.
This is exactly how I see it. I forget what article it was, but someone from Towerbrook was quoted saying that the Blues had met the goals they set when they purchased the team. Coupled with the Blues success and the increasing capital gains tax, it seems Towerbrook was bound to cash out. I am even convinced that they never really considered the Blues a long term investment.
Bernie M says Blues sources have told him they will proceed with personal moves as usual. That mean they are keeping the budget they allotted for next season before this was announced.
It also seems like Checketts has the power, through Citi bank, to choose a or multiple investors that will have to follow the gameplan they developed.
I am not too terribly worried by all of this. The comfort being that Towerbrook says they will stay onboard until someone is found.
I think we should keep in mind that the Blues' value was extremely low at the time of the sale to Checketts and Co. The franchise was gutted just for that purpose, to make it easier to sell. So a $26 million increase in value is good, but not great considering the state of the franchise at that time.
I think we should keep in mind that the Blues' value was extremely low at the time of the sale to Checketts and Co. The franchise was gutted just for that purpose, to make it easier to sell. So a $26 million increase in value is good, but not great considering the state of the franchise at that time.
Yeah, I'd say Checketts/Towerbrook, etc. got quite a good deal when they bought the Blues for $150M since they also got the Scottrade Center and the Kiel Opera House thrown in as well. Scottrade itself cost $135M to build so I would guess it's still worth about that much. The Opera House isn't really worth anything until/if they renovate it but to get the Blues and the lease to the arena they play in for $150M as opposed to say the situation in Phoenix where the city of Glendale owns the arena and wants the team to pay rent for 25+ years, that's a big bonus.
While there's no way of verifying how Forbes came up with their current valuation of $176M, they are very trusted in their valuations so I do hold a little faith in it. Agreed that that still doesn't mean there's any guarantees there's a buyer out there willing to pay that much (or 75% of of it since that's the chunk that Towerbrook owns) but at the same time, I don't see the point in assuming there isn't someone willing to buy at or near that price. My approach to this news that Towerbrook is divesting is that I'm not going to get overly worried about it. I'll keep an eye on the situation and while I don't necessarily consider it to be good news, it sounds like Towerbrook is going to take their time as Checketts finds a replacment investor (which is smart since if they try to rush the process, they'll likely get less for their portion of the team). If months from now it comes out that Checketts if having trouble finding a replacement investor and Towerbrook is growing impatient, then I'll worry...but I'm not too concerned about it right now.
That's why I was discouraged to learn that TowerBrook Capital, a private equity firm, is planning to withdraw as the Blues' largest investor. According to Forbes magazine, TowerBrook owns around 75 percent of the Blues. And Blues sources don't dispute that figure.
Wow, I had no idea that TBC owns 75% of the team...ummm, thats no small hunk of change. Its going to be difficult to find a buyer who lets Checketts run things for that amount of investment.
Wow, I had no idea that TBC owns 75% of the team...ummm, thats no small hunk of change. Its going to be difficult to find a buyer who lets Checketts run things for that amount of investment.
I was very surprised also. In reality, Checketts is a hired hand with a piece of the action - not an owner.
But this could be a good thing if a new buyer believes Checketts is the right man for the job.
THN.com has learned Calgary oilman Bill Gallacher, who also owns the Portland Winterhawks of the Western League, heads up a group of investors that has reached an agreement in principle to buy the Dallas Stars for about $225 million. The deal has yet to be signed and either side could back out of it, but it appears the deal will get done soon.
Any more rich Western Canadian oil men out there???
Whatever happened to that local real estate guy(sorry I can't remember the name) that wanted to be part owner of the Blues when SCP put the bid in and then was interested in Tampa Bay not too long ago?
I wonder whether locating in Canada becomes financially more attractive due to these coming tax changes in the US. I have no special knowledge in that area, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a team or two head back north.
The following from that Hockey News article seems to indicate that you may be right:
• That the Ice Edge bid to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes is essentially dead and unless there is someone willing to step forward to buy the Coyotes from the NHL and keep them in Phoenix, there is an agreement in principle in place to sell the team to Canadian billionaire David Thomson, who will move the team to Winnipeg before next season.
Thomson’s name in connection with the NHL in Winnipeg is nothing new. He is a major investor in True North Sports and Entertainment, the company that owns and operates the 15,000-seat MTS Centre in Winnipeg. With a seating capacity of 15,015 for hockey, it would be the smallest building in the NHL and it would obviously have to have long-term plans to increase the capacity by at least 2,000.
Whatever happened to that local real estate guy(sorry I can't remember the name) that wanted to be part owner of the Blues when SCP put the bid in and then was interested in Tampa Bay not too long ago?
Wasn't the legendary Soupy Campbell part of that bid? I remember Strickland mentioning them being interested once and then disappearing, but my memory is shoddy
Whatever happened to that local real estate guy(sorry I can't remember the name) that wanted to be part owner of the Blues when SCP put the bid in and then was interested in Tampa Bay not too long ago?
Is it Sansone? Name rings a bell...
And that's a good question. It would be awfully nice to have the majority of the Blues' ownership dollars come from a local source.
THN.com has learned Calgary oilman Bill Gallacher, who also owns the Portland Winterhawks of the Western League, heads up a group of investors that has reached an agreement in principle to buy the Dallas Stars for about $225 million. The deal has yet to be signed and either side could back out of it, but it appears the deal will get done soon.
Any more rich Western Canadian oil men out there???
probably not that won't want to move the team to Saskatoon.
towerbrook is smart to get out now. when checketts took over he had an opportunity to establish a foothold on the st. louis sports dollar. at the time both the rams and cardinals were struggling. in the years that checketts and company have run the team they have accomplished little. in about 4 years they made the playoffs only one year in a league where nearly half the teams make the playoffs. you can talk all you want about building an organization from the bottom up but people want to see results. considering all the opportunities to improve the team the management has failed badly. i understand things take time but seriously they have enough time to produce something. even though the blues made the playoffs last year they were swept in the first round. everyone talks about how good the blues prospect are. i just dont see it. are there any all stars on the team now? NO are any of the prospects in the system rated as a cant miss all star ? NO the cardinals have pujols and now the rams have bradford to bring in the casual fan. who do the blues have that people would pay to see? NOBODY. finally i think there are too many teams in the nhl. it was a big mistake to expand to places like columbus, atlanta, and nashville. i also think moving teams to texas and arizona was dumb. hockey is a cold weather sport and is played where they at least have some ice part of the year. thats why its called ice hockey.
If you're trying to suggest that the Cardinals struggling means that the Blues should be able to pass them in the eyes of St. Louis fans, then you've clearly never been to St. Louis
If you're trying to suggest that the Cardinals struggling means that the Blues should be able to pass them in the eyes of St. Louis fans, then you've clearly never been to St. Louis
No kidding! STL is a baseball town, no doubt about it.
The following from that Hockey News article seems to indicate that you may be right:
• That the Ice Edge bid to purchase the Phoenix Coyotes is essentially dead and unless there is someone willing to step forward to buy the Coyotes from the NHL and keep them in Phoenix, there is an agreement in principle in place to sell the team to Canadian billionaire David Thomson, who will move the team to Winnipeg before next season.
Thomson’s name in connection with the NHL in Winnipeg is nothing new. He is a major investor in True North Sports and Entertainment, the company that owns and operates the 15,000-seat MTS Centre in Winnipeg. With a seating capacity of 15,015 for hockey, it would be the smallest building in the NHL and it would obviously have to have long-term plans to increase the capacity by at least 2,000.
Capital gains tax in Canada is almost 10 times higher than it is in the US. Even with Obama's radical changes, it still wouldn't even be close to Canada's.
That being said, the profits generated by owning a team in Canada, rather than the US surpasses (by far) the capital gains tax levied in Canada.
However, given how much US teams struggle to turn a profit, the new capital gain taxes that will be happening soon in the US will only scare potential investors away and adds insult to injury (as it relates to the NHL).
This may be a good place to discuss the Blues payroll since how much they spend will depend on the new ownership.
Here's one way to look at it.
The Blues can spend $48 million on seven forwards, four defensmen and a goalie. That leaves about $11 million for five more forwards, two more defensemen and a backup goalie.
The more you pay for one or two elite players, the less you have for depth. We may have some big contracts coming in two or three years, but I think the market for player salaries could soften, especially if a few teams fold.
Next year, the Blues have Backes as an UFA and Oshie, Berglund and Polak as RFAs. It would be great to get these guys signed to a deal like Steen's (something like four years, $3.5 mil a year) but I don't know if that's realistic.
This may be a good place to discuss the Blues payroll since how much they spend will depend on the new ownership.
Here's one way to look at it.
The Blues can spend $48 million on seven forwards, four defensmen and a goalie. That leaves about $11 million for five more forwards, two more defensemen and a backup goalie.
The more you pay for one or two elite players, the less you have for depth. We may have some big contracts coming in two or three years, but I think the market for player salaries could soften, especially if a few teams fold.
Next year, the Blues have Backes as an UFA and Oshie, Berglund and Polak as RFAs. It would be great to get these guys signed to a deal like Steen's (something like four years, $3.5 mil a year) but I don't know if that's realistic.
Thoughts??
The Blues have spent "smart" money the last few years minus a couple of contracts (McKee,Brewer,Jackman,Boyes,McDonald). They have given themselves plenty of spending space in the future.
I think they'll get Backes signed sooner then later, the longer it drags on, the more of a distraction it's going to be and I know the Blues and Backes want none of that.
I think Berglund will get a Perron/EJ type contract, 2 years, reasonable dollars, a "prove yourself contract".
Oshie is what he is, he won't get a long term deal but he'll get a fair offer.
I was thinking about Roman Polak over the weekend and his future with the club. The Blues are DEEP on the blue line throughout the system, Ian Cole is knocking on the door along with Nikita Nikitin, does Polak get moved to add another piece to the puzzle? There's a pretty good chance, would I be in favor for it? Depending on the return. I want them to resign this guy but if they choose to move him for some goals, I'll take it.
Polak and his agent were looking for more money than the Blues were paying last time his RFA contract came up. That might slightly increase the chances he gets traded.
I'd rather keep Polak, but he's probably easily replaced (or Jackman). If Brewer isn't re-signed, there is room for Cole next season already.
