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Old
05-17-2010, 03:53 PM
  #51
StrangeVision
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I can't say it enough, look how much bigger they play with Mac in the line-up....and look how much bigger Kane and Toews are playing now that they have the Byf with em. ( as far as having size, nothing about ability***)
But if it's the ability that's too much (or too little for this matter), what are they doing NEAR the National Hockey League???
So much bigger that they ended up with a worse winning percentage with him in the line-up: 7-12-3 with, 25-25-10 without.

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05-17-2010, 03:56 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Buff is NOT an enforcer, you can't call a guy an enforcer because it fits YOUR definition, enforcer are guys such as the ones I mentioned.
Seriously, I absolutely love you sometimes!
NOOOOOOO.....YOUUUUU ARE THE ONE WHO IS WRONG! lol
But no, Byfuglien isn't a FIGHTER. His physical play says he doesn't need to fight to be an enforcer. He checks to do so.

Is one not considered an enforcer if they don't get penalty minutes while enforcing?

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05-17-2010, 03:57 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
THERE YA ARE!!!

You even just beat me to it!

OK~!

Mac, Belak, Orr, Byf, R2, Lucic, Shelley-ENFORCERS, enforcers because they don't drop the gloves for the camera's sake, they'll drop and keep things in orderwhenever they have to.

MAC, BELAK, ORR- FIGHTERS, because they'll sometimes dress solely to play for the 30 seconds they fight.

Y'know? Like it's a different game anymore to be such a cut and dry term.
Artyukhin, a non enforcer as you say, would crush those you do say are enforcers. (Mac not included)
Wrong...and ridiculous. That's your definition, no one else's.

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05-17-2010, 03:58 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Seriously, I absolutely love you sometimes!
NOOOOOOO.....YOUUUUU ARE THE ONE WHO IS WRONG! lol
But no, Byfuglien isn't a FIGHTER. His physical play says he doesn't need to fight to be an enforcer. He checks to do so.

Is one not considered an enforcer if they don't get penalty minutes while enforcing?
not an enforcer.

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05-17-2010, 04:02 PM
  #55
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These guys are power forwards, not enforcers, you're mistaking the term.

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05-17-2010, 04:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
So much bigger that they ended up with a worse winning percentage with him in the line-up: 7-12-3 with, 25-25-10 without.
I call BS on this one because it says NOTHING about:
-why they ACTUALLY won or lost the games
-who they played
-how they played according to how often Mac played

Sorry statistic fans! Gonna have to do better than that...again, I can read off nhl.com too...still never says how the stats got there. Have to watch for that.
There isn't even an empty net goal column!!!!!!

Your stats will tell us how many hits we had in a game (every game, situation vs team is different)...doesn't say how hard they were hitting....and THAT'S my point....in Frolik and Reinprecht most noticibly.

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05-17-2010, 04:07 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
Seriously, I absolutely love you sometimes!
NOOOOOOO.....YOUUUUU ARE THE ONE WHO IS WRONG! lol
But no, Byfuglien isn't a FIGHTER. His physical play says he doesn't need to fight to be an enforcer. He checks to do so.

Is one not considered an enforcer if they don't get penalty minutes while enforcing?
You just described a player who would be known as a power forward. Are you gonna call the likes of Tomas Holmstrom and Ryan Clowe enforcers now too?

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05-17-2010, 04:08 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I call BS on this one because it says NOTHING about:
-why they ACTUALLY won or lost the games
-who they played
-how they played according to how often Mac played

Sorry statistic fans! Gonna have to do better than that...again, I can read off nhl.com too...still never says how the stats got there. Have to watch for that.
There isn't even an empty net goal column!!!!!!

Your stats will tell us how many hits we had in a game (every game, situation vs team is different)...doesn't say how hard they were hitting....and THAT'S my point....in Frolik and Reinprecht most noticibly.
Seriously, I have no idea what your point is, here. Frolik and Reinprecht played better when Mac was in the lineup? Is that it?

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05-17-2010, 04:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
These guys are power forwards, not enforcers, you're mistaking the term.
I'm definately not saying you're wrong...but now I say neither of us are wrong. There's also a blurry line between power fwds and enforcers sometimes too.

Like Avery is a power forward, not enforcer. Joe Thornton could be a power forward, even an enforcer by my def, but he's just a widdle baby.

To compromise for the sake of correction, I'm guess talking enforcing power forwards.

I swear this isn't me just being a butt, it really just isn't so cut and dry anymore because of the evolutionary fact.....hell the average size for goalie's shot up 3 inches..

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05-17-2010, 04:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I'm definately not saying you're wrong...but now I say neither of us are wrong. There's also a blurry line between power fwds and enforcers sometimes too.

Like Avery is a power forward, not enforcer. Joe Thornton could be a power forward, even an enforcer by my def, but he's just a widdle baby.

To compromise for the sake of correction, I'm guess talking enforcing power forwards.

I swear this isn't me just being a butt, it really just isn't so cut and dry anymore because of the evolutionary fact.....hell the average size for goalie's shot up 3 inches..
Dude, are you serious with this?
Sean Avery's an agitator.

EDIT: And Joe Thornton will definitely never be considered an enforcer. I can't believe you actually said he's an enforcer by your definition.

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05-17-2010, 04:19 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I'm definately not saying you're wrong...but now I say neither of us are wrong. There's also a blurry line between power fwds and enforcers sometimes too.

Like Avery is a power forward, not enforcer. Joe Thornton could be a power forward, even an enforcer by my def, but he's just a widdle baby.

To compromise for the sake of correction, I'm guess talking enforcing power forwards.

I swear this isn't me just being a butt, it really just isn't so cut and dry anymore because of the evolutionary fact.....hell the average size for goalie's shot up 3 inches..
I'm sorry, but you're just trying to make it something it's not. And Avery is a pest, and agitator, not an enforcer or power forward. Thornton is a huge playmaker, not an enforcer or power forward.

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05-17-2010, 09:24 PM
  #62
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There is no debate.

Paul Laus

/close thread


Good night Panther fans. Drive safe and Thanks for coming out.

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05-17-2010, 10:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I call BS on this one because it says NOTHING about:
-why they ACTUALLY won or lost the games
-who they played
-how they played according to how often Mac played

Sorry statistic fans! Gonna have to do better than that...again, I can read off nhl.com too...still never says how the stats got there. Have to watch for that.
There isn't even an empty net goal column!!!!!!

Your stats will tell us how many hits we had in a game (every game, situation vs team is different)...doesn't say how hard they were hitting....and THAT'S my point....in Frolik and Reinprecht most noticibly.
You say they play "bigger" with MacIntyre in the lineup. Why, then, would their winning percentage be noticeably worse with him there? If he made a positive difference, it would stand to reason that either the winning percentage would be the same or better. As it is, it's worse. You can reason it however you want to support your point of view, but the facts don't agree with you. You're using subjectivity in a case where objectivity can be utilized.

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05-19-2010, 09:56 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Dude, are you serious with this?
Sean Avery's an agitator.

EDIT: And Joe Thornton will definitely never be considered an enforcer. I can't believe you actually said he's an enforcer by your definition.
F! I meant Voros! ...because Voros COULD play big but can't enforce really. I always considered power forwards were like non-enforcering enforcers (sounds dumb? I know you know what I mean).

Was reading the Linsday Lohan thing before I typed! Sorry!

I know Joe Thornton will never be!!! T'was the point of me mentioning such a big big *****cat!
I just said he could be based on his size...but he such a...lol

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05-19-2010, 10:02 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
You just described a player who would be known as a power forward. Are you gonna call the likes of Tomas Holmstrom and Ryan Clowe enforcers now too?
They aren't pushing a 6'4 260 frame.

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05-19-2010, 10:29 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
You say they play "bigger" with MacIntyre in the lineup. Why, then, would their winning percentage be noticeably worse with him there? If he made a positive difference, it would stand to reason that either the winning percentage would be the same or better. As it is, it's worse. You can reason it however you want to support your point of view, but the facts don't agree with you. You're using subjectivity in a case where objectivity can be utilized.
I said they play bigger, not better.
His lack of ice time wears the other guys down, not cuz his stinkiness is stinking up the whole rest of the team!
Given his ice time,Mac isn't going to help with the offense (unless they TRY him on the PP!!!! LOL)
Mac isn't going to help the D and goaltending much neither.

Facts aren't just stats & numbers cut and dry.
There isn't an empty net goal column y'know?
or like how nobody gets a point for a great screen when they kinda actually deserve credit for the goal....

All I said was it gave them a physical edge, don't make it more than that so you can say I'm wrong.
If I were actually putting it how you say I am, yes, you would be correct.

Erick-about Frolik and Reinprecht....REALLY???? GIMME A BREAK!!! I said most noticibly.....and when they play big they play good.

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05-19-2010, 10:34 AM
  #67
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I mean I just said they play bigger.

I never thought he was a winning/losing difference maker...Vokoun would be the one to be so if anyone on this team....nor did I think anyone would take it that way...

Physical play/Hitting is one of the major aspects along with skating, shooting, passing, stick handling, and stopping the puck.

I said he covers one of the six...but at least that more than the nothing half the team covers.
(OK, before this turns into something it wasn't meant to be, I mean like the team plays more physically with him around and the fact that they don't cover the rest is besides the point of Mac, because Mac still served his purpose)

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05-19-2010, 12:56 PM
  #68
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Have you ever heard of the edit button?

Enforcers are different from power forwards, who are different from pests, who are different from...

Seems you're new to this sport, or just very stubborn.

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05-19-2010, 04:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Have you ever heard of the edit button?

Enforcers are different from power forwards, who are different from pests, who are different from...

Seems you're new to this sport, or just very stubborn.
I know they are, you divide it into quarters, I'm dividing it into eights, yknow?
You're calling it red, yellow, blue, green. I'm calling it yellow-red, blue-green, etc...

Stubborn. lol

Heard of that button somewhere before. Recently back to back infractions got me used to ignoring it when it wouldn't let me use it!

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05-19-2010, 05:18 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie27 View Post
I said they play bigger, not better.
His lack of ice time wears the other guys down, not cuz his stinkiness is stinking up the whole rest of the team!
Given his ice time,Mac isn't going to help with the offense (unless they TRY him on the PP!!!! LOL)
Mac isn't going to help the D and goaltending much neither.

Facts aren't just stats & numbers cut and dry.
There isn't an empty net goal column y'know?
or like how nobody gets a point for a great screen when they kinda actually deserve credit for the goal....

All I said was it gave them a physical edge, don't make it more than that so you can say I'm wrong.
If I were actually putting it how you say I am, yes, you would be correct.

Erick-about Frolik and Reinprecht....REALLY???? GIMME A BREAK!!! I said most noticibly.....and when they play big they play good.
First of all, brilliant contradiction, unless of course "better" isn't synonymous with "good," in which case, are you saying neither Frolik nor Reinprecht are good without MacIntyre in the lineup?

Aside from that, if playing "bigger" isn't playing "better," then why does it matter? You just admitted that MacIntyre doesn't add anything to help the team win--all he does is give them some perceived "physical edge." If you do indeed think "bigger" and "better" are in fact the same, then why is the winning percentage significantly worse with MacIntyre than without?

I also never said his presence is actually detrimental to the team, only that he doesn't seem to help much.

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05-19-2010, 06:16 PM
  #71
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Well, there's a lot that factors in with Mac in the lineup, DeBoer doesn't know how to use him properly, that factors in a lot with the other players.

If the team can play the way they did against Philly on a more consistent basis, I think we'll have more success.

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05-20-2010, 09:28 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
First of all, brilliant contradiction, unless of course "better" isn't synonymous with "good," in which case, are you saying neither Frolik nor Reinprecht are good without MacIntyre in the lineup?

Aside from that, if playing "bigger" isn't playing "better," then why does it matter? You just admitted that MacIntyre doesn't add anything to help the team win--all he does is give them some perceived "physical edge." If you do indeed think "bigger" and "better" are in fact the same, then why is the winning percentage significantly worse with MacIntyre than without?

I also never said his presence is actually detrimental to the team, only that he doesn't seem to help much.
???

...uh...I don't think I said any of what you're saying I'm saying.

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05-20-2010, 09:32 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Well, there's a lot that factors in with Mac in the lineup, DeBoer doesn't know how to use him properly, that factors in a lot with the other players.

If the team can play the way they did against Philly on a more consistent basis, I think we'll have more success.
That's what I'm saying exactly, thanks Laus...and IMO-having Mac around made that performance in that one Philly game possible...

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05-20-2010, 09:46 PM
  #74
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So much bigger that they ended up with a worse winning percentage with him in the line-up: 7-12-3 with, 25-25-10 without.
Let's not forget that we were missing our best player for most of the year because of a hit that was a clear indication of a goon team taking advantage of our lack of any toughness that night. What would our record have been with Booth in all season?

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05-24-2010, 10:33 AM
  #75
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Let's not forget that we were missing our best player for most of the year because of a hit that was a clear indication of a goon team taking advantage of our lack of any toughness that night. What would our record have been with Booth in all season?
We could've looked all year like we did December 21...and that was a playoff style hockey game...a complete pride and balls match...

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