Missing Cammalleri

[Legionnaire]

We had the cap room...

[Telos]

Originally Posted by Legionnaire

We had the cap room...

We have the cap room to re-sign Randy Jones too. Not to compare Cammy in any way to Jones, but just because we have the cap room doesn't mean the fit or desire is there. Whether the fit or desire was there is relative. Everyone has their own conclusion. Technically you can force a fit no matter what, but in the end it was DL's call. What remains is those who still have a little shake left in their fists at Lombardi for trading one of their liked players.

[Legionnaire]

You just want Kovy.

[Telos]

Originally Posted by Legionnaire

You just want Kovy.

Very much so

[Legionnaire]

But you wouldn't if we had Cammy! Heehee.

[Telos]

Originally Posted by Legionnaire

But you wouldn't if we had Cammy! Heehee.

I probably would be looking at Kovalchuk with even more longing if we still had that one knee one shot wonder

[Legionnaire]

Nice one!

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by Sydor25

Even $4.5 million is too much for Dean to spend on a 1 year wonder, especially when he is just starting to build the core.

I shall fight you to the end!


Seriously though, if you think Cammy wasn't worth 4.5 on a LONG TERM deal, I'd say you're most likely in the minority.

Below are some players, with their current CAP hits, and their stats listed prior to the signing of thier current contract resulting in that CAP hit.


Phil Kessel 5.4M
2006-07 Boston Bruins NHL 70gp 11g 18a 29pts
2007-08 Boston Bruins NHL 82gp 19g 18a 37pts
2008-09 Boston Bruins NHL 70gp 36g 24a 60pts


Corry Perry 5.3M
2005-06 Anaheim Ducks NHL 56gp 13g 12a 25pts
2006-07 Anaheim Ducks NHL 82gp 17g 27a 44pts
2007-08 Anaheim Ducks NHL 70gp 29g 25a 54pts


Milan Michalek 4.3M
2003-04 San Jose Sharks NHL 2gp 1g 0a 1pts
2005-06 San Jose Sharks NHL 81gp 17g 18a 35pts
2006-07 San Jose Sharks NHL 78gp 26g 40a 66pts


Martin Erat 4.5M
2001-02 Nashville Predators NHL 80gp 9g 24a 33pts
2002-03 Nashville Predators NHL 27gp 1g 7a 8pts
2003-04 Nashville Predators NHL 76gp 16g 33a 49pts
2004-05 Lockout
2005-06 Nashville Predators NHL 80gp 20g 29a 49pts
2006-07 Nashville Predators NHL 68gp 16g 41a 57pts
2007-08 Nashville Predators NHL 76gp 23 g 34a 57pts


Pommaville 5.3M
2005-06 Buffalo Sabres NHL 57gp 18g 12a 30pts
2006-07 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82gp 34g 34a 68pts
2007-08 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82gp 27g 53a 80pts
2008-09 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82gp 20g 46a 66pts
2009-10 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82gp 24g 38a 62pts


Patrice Bergeron 4.75M
2003-04 Boston Bruins NHL 71gp 16g 23a 39pts
2004-05 Lockout
2005-06 Boston Bruins NHL 81gp 31g 42a 73pts


David Booth 4.25M
2006-07 Florida Panthers NHL 48gp 3g 7a 10pts
2007-08 Florida Panthers NHL 73gp 22g 18a 40pts
2008-09 Florida Panthers NHL 72gp 31g 29a 60pts


Jeff Carter 5M
2005-06 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 81 23 19 42
2006-07 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 62 14 23 37
2007-08 Philadelphia Flyers NHL 82 29 24 53


Kesler 5M
2005-06 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 10 13 23
2006-07 Vancouver Canucks NHL 48 6 10 16
2007-08 Vancouver Canucks NHL 80 21 16 37
2008-09 Vancouver Canucks NHL 82 26 33 59


Mike Ribero 5M
1999-00 Montreal Canadiens NHL 19 1 1 2
2000-01 Montreal Canadiens NHL 2 0 0 0
2001-02 Montreal Canadiens NHL 43 8 10 18
2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 52 5 12 17
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 81 20 45 65
2004-05 Lockout
2005-06 Montreal Canadiens NHL 79 16 35 51
2006-07 Dallas Stars NHL 81 18 41 59
2007-08 Dallas Stars NHL 76 27 56 83


Pommaville 5.3M
2005-06 Buffalo Sabres NHL 57 18 12 30
2006-07 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 34 34 68
2007-08 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 27 53 80
2008-09 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 20 46 66
2009-10 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 24 38 62


Tim Connolly 4.5M
2001-02 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 10 35 45
2002-03 Buffalo Sabres NHL 80 12 13 25
2004-05 Lockout
2005-06 Buffalo Sabres NHL 63 16 39 55
2006-07 Buffalo Sabres NHL 2 1 0 1
2007-08 Buffalo Sabres NHL 48 7 33 40
2008-09 Buffalo Sabres NHL 48 18 29 47


David Legwand 4.5M
1998-99 Nashville Predators NHL 1 0 0 0
1999-00 Nashville Predators NHL 71 13 15 28
2000-01 Nashville Predators NHL 81 13 28 41
2001-02 Nashville Predators NHL 63 11 19 30
2002-03 Nashville Predators NHL 64 17 31 48
2003-04 Nashville Predators NHL 82 18 29 47
2004-05 Lockout
2005-06 Nashville Predators NHL 44 7 19 26
2006-07 Nashville Predators NHL 78 27 36 63


Ryan Malone 4.5M
2003-04 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 81 22 21 43
2005-06 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 22 22 44
2006-07 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 64 16 15 31
2007-08 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 77 27 24 51


There's more...Too many to list though.

Originally Posted by Sydor25

Cammy had 1 great season in a contract year and wanted $6 million per year....That is why they went to arbitration and Cammy lost (he wasn't worth what he wanted).

I don't think anyone in their right mind thought Cammy would get 6M; including Cammy.

It's called negotiations. One side starts high, the other starts low, and you meet somewhere in the middle. DL was unwilling to meet somewhere in the middle. We have no idea if Cammy was or not. (I believe he was, because it was financially beneficial for him to do so, as I outlined in an earlier post)

Had DL made a reasonable offer, and Cammy turned it down, we wouldn't be having this argument right now. DL did not make a reasonable offer, and that's where he deserves the criticism.

Originally Posted by Sydor25

Why wasn't this thread started last year when Cammy was eliminated in the first round? Seems like this thread has turned into a big "I Told You So" thread.

The people who were upset with DL's handling of the situation now, are the same people who were upset with when it happened. The fact that Cammy continues to prove his detractors wrong doesn't change anything.

Originally Posted by Sydor25

I can only imagine the threads if Dean had selected Bogosian instead of Doughty.

If DL had selecteded Bogo over Doughty, I think you would be defending the move, because you'd have a hard time accepting the fact the DL made a MAJOR mistake, just like he did with Cammy.

I believe Freud calls it "Rationalization."

[Tonellisghost]

Cammy a one year wonder has to be the most silly thing that has been said during this debate. I mean, he was well more than a one year wonder when his arbitration hearing happened. To counter, a "one year wonder" wouldn't have been given a 2+million per contract.

The other thing is this, my rabbit in the mating dance is that the deal that sent Cammy AND a first round pick for the 13th pick in ANY draft was a total failure on DL's part.

And, that up to now we haven't signed a major UFA (and I am happy about that) and when you ad to the fact that Kovy will earn in the $8m per year (i feel more) range and that DL has said "wingers are the least valuable/important players", what makes any of us think that we will actually sign Kovy?

Billy Ball seems to be part of DL's GM style and I can't see it happening.

Finally, MC would very much have changed the face of our team had we signed him regardless of what any of us think, could have been for the good, could have been for the worst but to say that nobody knew that he was going to turn out to be an elite level sniper is pure b.s..

There were several posters here, me included who knew what we had and I think DL did too, he just didn't want MC on the team and so he dealt him, that part of this debate isn't any big deal to me. DL is gm and a very good one to boot, not all of his decisions are going to turn out perfect (we can all list several) but, I think his win/fail rate is largely set in the win category and that is something that we haven't had since the 80's.

[The Dingo]

Cammy is streaky but calling him a 1 year wonder is wrong.

[redcard]

Originally Posted by Tonellisghost

The other thing is this, my rabbit in the mating dance is that the deal that sent Cammy AND a first round pick for the 13th pick in ANY draft was a total failure on DL's part.

The deal was Cammy for the 17th. That, given the fact that he had 1 year on his deal was decent value (and DL himself conceded that he expected to get more).

What you seem to not like is that it cost the 17th and the 28th to trade up to 12, which I'll agree with you is a high price to pay, but that has very little to do with Cammy's value and more of how much the ducks valued the 12th pick over two lesser picks.

I think if Dean elected to keep the 17th and 28th and drafted Gardiner and Tikhonov (hell, maybe Teubert would have still been available 17th) we'd have a different perspective.

[Kingz4life]

I will miss him a lot less if we get Kovalchuk =]

[Sydor25]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

If DL had selecteded Bogo over Doughty, I think you would be defending the move, because you'd have a hard time accepting the fact the DL made a MAJOR mistake, just like he did with Cammy.

I believe Freud calls it "Rationalization."

Are you kidding? I'm far from a Dean fan. If he had selected Bogosian over Doughty, I would have asked for him to be fired. Especially after all of his talk about how he wants players with a Kings tattoo on their ass. Doughty loved the Kings before he was even drafted by them.

Dean made a bad call with Cammy, I'm over it. Dean has made many other mistakes and will probably make many more. Not giving into the demands of Cammy three years ago is not the reason that the Kings didn't make the 2nd round this season. Hell, Ovechkin and Kovalchuk were knocked out in the first round and I would take both of them over Cammy in a heartbeat.

Dean's philosphy has always been to build down the middle, getting mad at him for sticking to his plan is pointless. He was never going to sign a winger to $6 million three years ago, he was not even going to go above $4 million before he had his core down the middle. At the time, the Kings had Coutier in net and Johnson was supposed to be the top defenseman. Not exactly set down the middle.

If Cammy was a 6'3" center with soft hands, then he would be on the Kings making over $6 million.

How much should Doughty get on his next contract? More than $6 million?


So, in summary, I think that Dean made a mistake in letting Cammy go without a better return (but Dean has said that the market was dried up after his 19 goal season), but I agree with Dean that Cammy wasn't worth $4+ million three years ago.

Maybe he should have held on to Cammy until the deadline of his contract season, but Dean wanted to move up in the draft and Cammy was his best asset. In hindsite, I'm sure he would admit it was a mistake.

I'm far more upset that he let Gaborik go without offering him a legitimate contract. I would rather have Gaborik at $7.5 million than Cammy at $6 million.

[Sydor25]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=321454

With seven goals in a seven-game series victory over the defending Cup champion Pittsburgh Penguins, Cammalleri equalled a team record for tallies in a single playoff series shared by Maurice (Rocket) Richard (1944 and 1958), Jean Beliveau (1956), Bernard (Boom Boom) Geoffrion (1957), Guy Lafleur (1975) and Marcel Bonin (1959) -- all of them but Bonin long established members of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

The 27-year-old, whose previous playoff experience was one round with Calgary last spring, has 12 goals in 13 playoff games this season.

The official team mark for goals in one playoff year is 17 by Edouard (Newsy) Lalonde in 1919, and the modern record is 15 by Yvan Cournoyer in 1973. He is already tied for fourth place in that department. The league record is 19 shared by Philadelphia's Reggie Leach in 1976 and Edmonton's Jari Kurri in 1985.

The Montreal record for left-wingers like Cammalleri is 14 by Frank Mahovlich in 1971.

I still think that Halak has been more impressive. Here are Halak's stats in elimination games:

5 GP 1.60 GAA 0.962 SA%

[JDM]

So what you are saying is that Crosby and Stamkos have to share the Cammalleri Trophy this year?

That's some fine company for Cammy to be in.

Oh man... As I say this I see a 'History Will be Made' commercial with Gionta's 2nd goal last night. Shot ends with Cammy's assist.

Too soon! The tag was 'What if the Habs didn't believe?'. I thought these commercials were about winning the cup. Has the NHL already decided Montreal will win?

[damacles1156]

Originally Posted by Sydor25

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=321454




I still think that Halak has been more impressive. Here are Halak's stats in elimination games:

5 GP 1.60 GAA 0.962 SA%

Halak is far more impressive, Cammi is putting up points against some shoddy Goal tending. MAF had the worst series ever I think, he was average big time. And I don't need to explain how poor Washington played all together.

Halak has made Ovechkin, Crosby, and Malkin look average. Way more impressive if you ask me.

[Tonellisghost]

well 25, the fact that DL dealt Cammy AND a first round pick (wether it was both to cgy or not isn't the point) to move up to pick Tuebert is and will always be seen by the vast majority of the NHL (and history is now and will likely continue to prove) as a ridiculous over payment.

There were other assets involved too and they are also insignificant in that an elite level sniper who was under the age of 25 and had proven himself in the NHL was dealt for the 12th pick in the draft.

If it isn't a bad deal then we should have no problem dealing B Schenn in three years for the 12th pick in that years draft or dealing any other proven young established budding star that we might develop for the 12th (or 13th) pick in any NHL draft.

I mean, as long as they are a winger.

Its cool to defend this nightmare of a deal though, but where did you stand on Cloutieohmyfriggingawdhesucks-r or a few of the other stinkers that DL has made at the trade table?

Also, if DL thinks that wingers are the least important positions, what makes any of us think that he will make one (Kovy et al) our highest paid player (if not the leagues?).

The point is that nothing has been done by DL in a vacuum, he has made a few truly horrible mistakes and has made some amazingly great decisions too. Its ok that he made love to the canine where MC is concerned.

Oh and who's saying that Halak isn't having an incredible playoff run and what does it have to do with MC being a throw in along with a first round pick so that we can end up picking Colton the new messiah Tuebert?

[Sydor25]

Why can't you see the difference between rebuilding three years ago and adding the best UFA available to a core that just made the playoffs? Cammy wanted too much too soon. That is all.

Moulson was let go for nothing and he scored 30 goals last year. Where's his thread? Do we get a Purcell thread in a few years if he nets 30?

When is it okay to move on from a mistake? Three years isn't enough?

The Cloutier trade and signing was horrible. Hiring Crawford was a bigger mistake. Not taking a run at Tippett was a mistake. Not calling up Bernier earlier in the season was a mistake. Getting Jones on waivers was a mistake. Not getting a defenseman at the deadline was a mistake. Not signing Gaborik was a mistake.

I've moved on from these mistakes.

[Sydor25]

I only bring up Halak because someone said Cammy should get the MVP of the playoffs.

[Sydor25]

When Kovalchuk signs somewhere else, I will be sad and angry.

I would consider that a mistake, but I will move on and cheer for the Kings on Oct 2nd.

[kingpest19]

Originally Posted by Telos

That is your assumption. Just because he didn't like the guy, doesn't mean that he decided to kick him off the team as that being the primary reason. Either way, this is Dean's team, he can do whatever he wills with it. If he feels that Cammy is not a good match for the team, then so be it. So far his ideal of character first has been working well for us. Just about any man on this team can have a letter slapped on his jersey.



It wasn't wrong. He predicted Cammy's ability, where he was going to go, and what he was going to earn. It just wasn't the right fit for this team at the right time. That was DL's call. Given the good versus the bad he has given us thus far, I would have extended DL's contract yesterday. The asset wasn't maximized, but is replaceable, and didn't harm us as much as most people seem to think.



Perhaps, but he didn't show that in LA; therefore he is gone. This is professional sports. We don't have the luxury of waiting around on promises.



Not that much cheaper... Who is to say we could have kept him? There are no facts supporting any argument that we could have. There is no telling what would have became of him had he remained with the Kings. It would be the same as if Myers won the Calder and Teubert moaners argued that by passing on him, we also passed on the Calder. Who knows if he would have turned in that same performance had he been third behind Doughty and Johnson. It would be like moaning in two years after Frolov goes to Detroit and becomes a 40 goal 90 point scorer. Most individuals want him gone now, but hindsight is always 20/20. Things just didn't go his way here and a fit wasn't to be had.



Most of what you said is opinion, other than the likelihood that DL knew of his plans for Cammy before the draft.

The problem with the Cammy debate is that people take sides. They grow too attached to one side, vilify the other, and once they do, they fail to see the other perspective of things. The best advice in sports is to not grow too attached to just about anything. No matter how you look at it, what conspiracies you believe to uncover, what is done is done, we are going into this offseason looking to rectify our scoring, which for the first time in a long time, is our only real problem for once We have endless options in front of us and it is not the end of the world. Just get a rag and wipe up the spilled milk.

And thats why all the crying needs to stop about that pick. Just because he did it in Buffalo on an average defense doesnt mean he would have done it here. No guarantee at all.

[Sydor25]

No! The sky is falling!

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

just out of curiosity, are the people who are asking for the kovalchuk long life contract the same people who are upset about smyths cap hit during the tail end of his contract?

if so.... hahahaha

[kingsfan28]

Originally Posted by Sydor25

Why can't you see the difference between rebuilding three years ago and adding the best UFA available to a core that just made the playoffs? Cammy wanted too much too soon. That is all.

Moulson was let go for nothing and he scored 30 goals last year. Where's his thread? Do we get a Purcell thread in a few years if he nets 30?

When is it okay to move on from a mistake? Three years isn't enough?

The Cloutier trade and signing was horrible. Hiring Crawford was a bigger mistake. Not taking a run at Tippett was a mistake. Not calling up Bernier earlier in the season was a mistake. Getting Jones on waivers was a mistake. Not getting a defenseman at the deadline was a mistake. Not signing Gaborik was a mistake.

I've moved on from these mistakes.

How was this a mistake? It's not like we had an opening and Lombardi picked Murray over Tippett. Remember, Tippett was fired for a reason and his success in PHX had more to do with PHX front office changing their approach to more veteran team, unlike when Gretz was coach and most of his guys weren't old enough to drink yet.

[Sydor25]

Originally Posted by kingsfan28

How was this a mistake? It's not like we had an opening and Lombardi picked Murray over Tippett. Remember, Tippett was fired for a reason and his success in PHX had more to do with PHX front office changing their approach to more veteran team, unlike when Gretz was coach and most of his guys weren't old enough to drink yet.

Tippett was fired because Nieuwendyk is an idiot. Nieuwendyk wanted to put his stamp on the team and cleaned house. The Stars fans were not happy with the move, at least the ones I'm stuck working with. They are really not happy with giving Lehtonen a $3.6 million contract, I'm sure the UFA goalies were very happy.