HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-11-2010, 11:24 PM
  #101
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilTheThrillKessel View Post
Darren Dreger on CJOB (Radio in Winnipeg) not to long ago. Said :

1 week to 10 days we should know if Winnipeg will get team for next year.

-- Vote tonight will not dicated what happens.

-- Leaning towards relocation it seems.

I think this is right. As Casual Fan pointed out more eloquently than my next, blunt, statement.... now let's let the lawyers rip it up.

It's interesting that Bettman doesn't wish to have the NHL carrying $20-30m of losses per year, but Moyes was villified for not wanting to do exactly that (except he was losing 2x as much). Funny how writing the checks changes perspective.

 
Old
05-11-2010, 11:25 PM
  #102
PhilTheThrillKessel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleCAPS View Post
what's difficult is that everything that's said about this situation seems to be contradicted somewhere along the line.

i might have to go off the grid until the dust settles.
Agreed. I need a break. Im not going to be a Jets fan (if it happened) anyways so I don't see why I'm worrying so much. I'd like to see my Leafs play in the Peg, but eh, whatever happens, happens.

PhilTheThrillKessel is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:27 PM
  #103
jamwires
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 1,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telfo View Post
the Canadian media is really doing the fans in Winnipeg a disservice by giving them false hope and then blaming Bettman when things dont work out
Dreger knows what he's talking about. Everyone knew the vote would play out this way. Everyone. If the VOTE ITSELF determined the fate of the Yotes, we would have all agreed they'd be staying put. But that's simply not the case.

Jets fans - don't get too excited or depressed.

Yotes fans - don't get too excited or depressed.

jamwires is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:29 PM
  #104
2525
Sad Leafs fan
 
2525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,512
vCash: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telfo View Post
the Canadian media is really doing the fans in Winnipeg a disservice by giving them false hope and then blaming Bettman when things dont work out
Who's blaming Gary?

Hockey is 24/7 here. Thanks to the Canadian media (and people) the NHL makes millions in TV revenues.

With no Canadian teams in the SC finals, there will be a ton of Canadians watching on CBC.

Reminds me of the saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you"

2525 is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:30 PM
  #105
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Even our most caustic exchanges have ever been anywhere close to this. The artistry of argument is nowhere to be found right now.
On this we are agreed. Fugu has come to save the day and reign in this rowdiness.

GSC2k2* is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:32 PM
  #106
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think this is right. As Casual Fan pointed out more eloquently than my next, blunt, statement.... now let's let the lawyers rip it up.

It's interesting that Bettman doesn't wish to have the NHL carrying $20-30m of losses per year, but Moyes was villified for not wanting to do exactly that (except he was losing 2x as much). Funny how writing the checks changes perspective.
If you mean "vilified for not adhering to his contractual responsibilities which he agreed to voluntarily", you would be much more accurate.

GSC2k2* is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:32 PM
  #107
Telfo
THRASHERS
 
Telfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan001 View Post
Who's blaming Gary?

Hockey is 24/7 here. Thanks to the Canadian media (and people) the NHL makes millions in TV revenues.

With no Canadian teams in the SC finals, there will be a ton of Canadians watching on CBC.

Reminds me of the saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you"
Gary is constantly made out to be some evil Canada hater, when its really not true.... thats all i was talking about

Telfo is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:34 PM
  #108
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think this is right. As Casual Fan pointed out more eloquently than my next, blunt, statement.... now let's let the lawyers rip it up.

It's interesting that Bettman doesn't wish to have the NHL carrying $20-30m of losses per year, but Moyes was villified for not wanting to do exactly that (except he was losing 2x as much). Funny how writing the checks changes perspective.
That's a ridiculous statement.

Moyes was villified for trying to circumvent the rules of the franchise agreement he signed.

No one asked him to take losses year after year

HotToddy is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:35 PM
  #109
Telfo
THRASHERS
 
Telfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
What is Dreger saying will be resolved in the next week or so? the way i understand it they have until june 30 to get a new owner on board... if that doesnt happen the city will pay the NHL 25 million for another year and this will all continue.

Telfo is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:36 PM
  #110
2525
Sad Leafs fan
 
2525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,512
vCash: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telfo View Post
Gary is constantly made out to be some evil Canada hater, when its really not true.... thats all i was talking about
You have your opinion of him. I have mine.

He was responsible for getting rid of the Canada cup, a cup named to honour my country. Moving the awards show to Vegas pissed me off a bit too.

But this is all off topic

2525 is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:37 PM
  #111
Greaves
Registered User
 
Greaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,171
vCash: 500
Here's my thoughts... we all knew this vote was in the can as of yesterday.

Daly is an idiot and does not know a damn thing.

City council needs to raise 25M.

Let's let the lawyers jump in an rip this apart.

So what, the Coyotes stay for another year or two? Owning the Coyotes is like playing Monopoly and repeatedly landing on Boardwalk with a hotel on it.

Greaves is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:39 PM
  #112
2525
Sad Leafs fan
 
2525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,512
vCash: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
That's a ridiculous statement.

Moyes was villified for trying to circumvent the rules of the franchise agreement he signed.

No one asked him to take losses year after year
Did he do anything illegal?

I don't think Judge Baum found him guilty of anything re the bankruptcy sale.

2525 is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:42 PM
  #113
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
If you mean "vilified for not adhering to his contractual responsibilities which he agreed to voluntarily", you would be much more accurate.
Meh, not really what I mean, per below. ( I did think you'd missed the post, but I should have known better.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
That's a ridiculous statement.

Moyes was villified for trying to circumvent the rules of the franchise agreement he signed.

No one asked him to take losses year after year

Moyes was villified for freaking out that after losing $200-300m or whatever the number was (even adjusted it's a hell of a lot more than the NHL is willing to put on the line--- one year for them), and then being asked to hand the keys over to JR.

I asked the question earlier. Why didn't Bettman work with Moyes to bridge matters for 1-2 yrs, and promise him the team could be relocated if no buyer was found? Isn't that a nicer way to treat a member of the BOG who'd already lost hundreds of millions?

Yes, there is that lease.

 
Old
05-11-2010, 11:45 PM
  #114
peter sullivan
Winnipeg
 
peter sullivan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,273
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaves View Post
Here's my thoughts... we all knew this vote was in the can as of yesterday.

Daly is an idiot and does not know a damn thing.

City council needs to raise 25M.

Let's let the lawyers jump in an rip this apart.

So what, the Coyotes stay for another year or two? Owning the Coyotes is like playing Monopoly and repeatedly landing on Boardwalk with a hotel on it.
its not even the lawyers, if this is true "This is more gwater proof then ppl realize. " but all the rest of it that we have been discussing ad nauseum for 3 weeks....what revenue streams will $25m come from?....even if they have an owner, can they legally create a CFD that was meant for infrastructure?...will they sell the bonds?...what ratings do the bonds get?

and these questions become even more relevant if the negotiations break down and there is no owner....which is why i cant believe anyone considers this a guarantee.

these CFD things are great....why doesnt everyone use them to build everything?....its like free money with no risk.

peter sullivan is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:47 PM
  #115
Winnipeg Jets
Lucky #7
 
Winnipeg Jets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Selkirk
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,286
vCash: 1580
Phoenix Coyotes fans need to understand that us Winnipeg Jets fans are very passionate. Even the slightest notion of an NHL team being relocated here is like Jesus' second coming to us.

I'm glad that Phoenix is keeping their team for at least another year and I'm extatic that Winnipeg is now seen as a front-runner for an NHL team.

There is no need for all the bitterness between the two fan-bases as we have both been through the emotional rollercoaster that is losing an NHL franchise. I wish you guys the best of luck with your battle to keep the team you obviously love.

Winnipeg Jets is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:47 PM
  #116
Telfo
THRASHERS
 
Telfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan001 View Post
You have your opinion of him. I have mine.

He was responsible for getting rid of the Canada cup, a cup named to honour my country. Moving the awards show to Vegas pissed me off a bit too.

But this is all off topic
both of those are legitimate reasons to dislike him

Telfo is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:48 PM
  #117
HotToddy
Registered User
 
HotToddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Meh, not really what I mean, per below. ( I did think you'd missed the post, but I should have known better.)




Moyes was villified for freaking out that after losing $200-300m or whatever the number was (even adjusted it's a hell of a lot more than the NHL is willing to put on the line--- one year for them), and then being asked to hand the keys over to JR.

I asked the question earlier. Why didn't Bettman work with Moyes to bridge matters for 1-2 yrs, and promise him the team could be relocated if no buyer was found? Isn't that a nicer way to treat a member of the BOG who'd already lost hundreds of millions?

Yes, there is that lease.

Moyes got involved with owning a hockey team so he could leverage an arena to build his housing developments around.

He hired Gretzky an unproven coach, at an SEC College football coaches salary, to run the Coyotes into the earth.

Poorly run business, fans stopped coming, business in toilet. When this happens in most cases you take your haircut and sell at a loss, Moyes tried a hail mary to try and recoup from his own stupidity and in doing so backdoored the NHL who had stepped in to cash flow him.

Moyes deserves all of his losses.

HotToddy is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:49 PM
  #118
Jet
Moderator
Drop the danged puck
 
Jet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: New Glasgow
Country: Scotland
Posts: 17,515
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by UniformGuru View Post
But yet when almost any of those teams in Canada (excluding Toronto/Montreal) has a few down years, the fans stop attending. Should we move one of the Canadian teams when that happens?
Really? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Take The Oilers for instance. They have had exactly 1 good season in the past 15 or so years, including an atrocious last 2 years, and they still have 2500 people on their season ticket WAITING list.

You should think twice before posting things you really have no idea about.

Jet is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:50 PM
  #119
GSC2k2*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Meh, not really what I mean, per below. ( I did think you'd missed the post, but I should have known better.)




Moyes was villified for freaking out that after losing $200-300m or whatever the number was (even adjusted it's a hell of a lot more than the NHL is willing to put on the line--- one year for them), and then being asked to hand the keys over to JR.

I asked the question earlier. Why didn't Bettman work with Moyes to bridge matters for 1-2 yrs, and promise him the team could be relocated if no buyer was found? Isn't that a nicer way to treat a member of the BOG who'd already lost hundreds of millions?

Yes, there is that lease.
Groan. They did; they financed his team for a whole year before he stabbed them in the back. It is a shame for you to keep reviving this old meme that the NHL treated Moyes poorly. They treated him like a prince. They treated him like any business partner would want to be treated. I mean, come on. He repudiated his contracts with the league and they still let him have a modicum of control and allowed him to save face when they had every right (both contractually and ethically) to put him in the ejector seat.

THey didn't need to promise him that he could move because he had multiple parties doing due diligence and making tentative offers.

GSC2k2* is offline  
Old
05-11-2010, 11:56 PM
  #120
Fugu
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotToddy View Post
Moyes got involved with owning a hockey team so he could leverage an arena to build his housing developments around.

He hired Gretzky an unproven coach, at an SEC College football coaches salary, to run the Coyotes into the earth.

Poorly run business, fans stopped coming, business in toilet. When this happens in most cases you take your haircut and sell at a loss, Moyes tried a hail mary to try and recoup from his own stupidity and in doing so backdoored the NHL who had stepped in to cash flow him.

Moyes deserves all of his losses.

That was Elman, not Moyes. Moyes ended up in the business when he never really wanted to be in.
@GC. It's too late for me to argue this point. I'll let one of the other night owls set you straight.

 
Old
05-11-2010, 11:56 PM
  #121
NorthernILHawksFan
Registered User
 
NorthernILHawksFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: IL
Country: United States
Posts: 269
vCash: 500
Watching his interview with CBC made me hate Bettman even more, which is hard to do. Comparing the Phoenix situation to Chicago? Please.


It sucks that this thing is going to drag out again, and we might be talking about the same stuff a year from now.


Last edited by NorthernILHawksFan: 05-11-2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason: spelling
NorthernILHawksFan is offline  
Old
05-12-2010, 12:03 AM
  #122
The Mauve Avenger
Registered User
 
The Mauve Avenger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 696
vCash: 500
If Phoenix keeps its team, all I'll say is this:

If you build it, they will come.

The Mauve Avenger is offline  
Old
05-12-2010, 12:04 AM
  #123
HansH
Unwelcome Spectre
 
HansH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Country: United States
Posts: 3,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanahue View Post
Take a look at what is happening in Phoenix.
Now take a look at what happened in Winnipeg.

Do you really think they NHL treated both situations the same?
They didn't.

Mostly because the Winnipeg owner didn't try to go along with a scheme by a crooked lawyer and a spoiled billionaire to move the team into not just one, but two other established teams' markets -- thus taking the team into bankruptcy court and attempting to remove any league's right to determine 1) who they do business with, and 2) where their teams are located. And also didn't intentionally try to undercut the stability of his own asset in order to get the bigger payoff in bankruptcy.

Look, Winnipeg fans have every reason to be pissed that they lost their team -- but EVERYONE needs to STOP RIGHT NOW with the whining that "the NHL didn't try this hard for us, so screw anyone else!!"

Mod: deleted.


Last edited by Fugu: 05-12-2010 at 12:06 AM. Reason: discuss the subject w/o generalizing about fans
HansH is offline  
Old
05-12-2010, 12:05 AM
  #124
DouX
Keeping Arizona Icy
 
DouX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tempe
Country: United States
Posts: 1,489
vCash: 500
A lot of people here consider the Canadian fan bases as something miraculous. Okay yes you are dedicated, but I mean you should be. You invented the sport, it's yours, and we love it too. But you all must realize in America we have lots of choices to choose from. NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB. As of right now the only city in Canada with multiple professional sports teams is Toronto. Arizona has 4 professional sports teams.

If a city like Winnipeg had 4 professional sports teams do you think that just maybe not every game would be sold out? Just wondering. I mean I know if Arizona just had the Yotes to choose from, every game would be sold out. But it's not like that, instead we have a very competitive sports market, so stop trying to sound so smart and make us look bad by saying we are not good loyal fans. You really have no idea what your talking about.

DouX is offline  
Old
05-12-2010, 12:07 AM
  #125
The Mauve Avenger
Registered User
 
The Mauve Avenger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 696
vCash: 500
Btw:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=321273

Quote:
But city manager Ed Beasley and NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly both told the council that the sale of the Coyotes is still expected to close by the end of June and the payments may never be needed.
Quote:
But the league has said repeatedly that if no local buyer can be found, it would look to find a buyer elsewhere.
Be wary both Phoenix and Winnipeg fans.

The Mauve Avenger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.