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Old
05-12-2010, 01:12 AM
  #1
orcatown
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Series Assesment

Just not good enough. Lacked legit size,, toughness in the bottom six and couldn't bang around the Hawks enough to wear them down as they did with us. Goal tending not good enough over the length of the series. Sedins couldn't really fight through the checking and others couldn't pick up enough of the slack.

On the Series

The Good

Wellwood - got worn down but played very effectively. Some more scoring would a have been great however

Grabner - did very well considering the lack of experince

Salo - kudos for stepping up tonight. Played well through out most of the playoffs

Raymond - Forced the play all the time and helped give his team momentum. Little better play from his line mates could have made him even more effective.

Ehrhoff - Had some bad moments but overall was critical he getting the puck up to the forwards and creating some pressure from the back-end. Hawks made him a real focus of attention and Ehrhoff had to really work hard to accomplish what he did.

Burrows - not 100% but contributed well throughout the series. One of the Canucks that got to the net and was the source of good deal of the offensive success the team had. Also made some real saving plays around his net

The Inconsistent

Bieksa - showed enough to be more hopeful moving ahead but still too many gaffes in his play

SOB - made some dumb moves but played with heart and conviction.

Edler - never really got back to the level of his early performance in the LA series. Not bad but could not impose himself on the game

H. Sedin - never really got in any kind of groove - could easily be the bad category but better than Daniel

The Bad

Luongo - too many bad efforts - especailly at home. Needed to be better

Samuelsson - as good as he played against LA he played as badly in this series. Just turned puck over far too much

Bernier - horrible - Cannot play at this level and was dreadfully exposed by the fast Hawks. Absolute disappointment. Maybe Canucks should ditch this contract.

Alberts - some decent play but looked in over his head most of the time

Johnson - about what you expected - A total non factor who contributed nothing

Hansen - insignificant in the series and missed some key chances to score. Got standing around far too much.

D. Sedin - just had very bad series. Maybe hurt or whatever. Killed the offensive a lot of the time thru a giveaway or a bad pass

Glass - looked way too slow

Demitra - got nothing done. Never took the puck to the net - always swinging wide and taking himself out of the play. Bad on the PP. Maybe final game in the League unless he is willing to take a very cheap contract.

Others

Rypien - played well in the first game and then got nailed in the second and became a non-factor.

Kesler - Kudos for playing thru pain - should be captain.

Comments

Canucks played a much more wide open style this year but, in the end, could not seem to successfully revert to a better defensive style. Loosing Willie hurt but all through the season the Canucks exhibited an inability to shut down other teams. In many cases the Canucks ended up trying to score their way out of trouble. This couple with inconsistent play of Luongo led to the breakdowns that happened during the season and in the playoffs. Chicago had scoring punch to exploit this weakness.

Given he didn't play once, you'd have to think Hordichuk is out of here.

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05-12-2010, 01:15 AM
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fools russian
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I guess you can't expect to win when literally your top 4 offensive guys aren't producing and your D is banged up. credit to chicago, they shut the Canucks down pretty well.

upgrade the D and hopefully we'll be looking that much better next year.

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05-12-2010, 01:15 AM
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Canucks5551
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Bieksa had one good game, one meh game and 4 abominations to hockey. If he's not in the bad category, I don't know who is.

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05-12-2010, 01:18 AM
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Jack Tripper
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chicago's best players outplayed vancouver's best players by a wide margin for the second straight year

luongo allows 17 goals in 3 home game losses

sedins, kesler and burrows don't produce

entire team physically manhandled

the sense of inevitability among some fans is pissing me off...at the start of this series and before the canucks collapse in games 3 and 4 there was no sentiment that the hawks were the better team...just because the canucks left it to the last minute in game 6 doesn't mean that they didn't have a chance to win the series and overcome injuries

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05-12-2010, 01:19 AM
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Thanks for doing these all season.

Broadly agreed, although I think you're being a little generous to Burrows and harsh on Hansen, who at least didn't look as scared of the corners as some of his teammates.

And I wish I was that optimistic about Hordichuk, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the opening night lineup next year. Maybe he could be talked into a playing-coach thing in Manitoba/Thunder Bay/San Antonio and eased out that way.

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05-12-2010, 01:32 AM
  #6
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I mostly agree with orcatown with the following additional comments:

* The thing with Edler is that his play in the playoffs >> regular season. That's a huge positive. I'd be more worried if he had a terrific regular season and the playoff he's just had.

* The other thing to note with Wellwood is he ALWAYS gets the top 9 leftovers. He's had every right winger and every left winger under the sun. Like tonight, starts with Samuelsson on the right, then when Sammy joins the Sedins, Burrows joins the Kesler line and Demitra gets pushed down the trap door, suddenly Hansen is his RW I'm sure other GMs have noticed so he'll be north of $2M per year next year with a 3 year contract under his belt. I'm worried he won't be here next year because Gillis won't pay that and even if he did, Wellwood may sign back East, IMO.

* Hansen and Bernier is an interesting contrast - Hansen has been in AV's doghouse all year whereas Bernier's had every opportunity given to him - PP, pk, Sedins, etc...Hansen makes $500K per year. Bernier makes 4x that. Hansen deserves the benefit of the doubt.

* Glass I have a lot of time for, 100% kinda guy, good 4th liner for most NHL teams, just not this one.

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Old
05-12-2010, 01:37 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucks5551 View Post
Bieksa had one good game, one meh game and 4 abominations to hockey. If he's not in the bad category, I don't know who is.
Have to agree completely with this....Bieksa is a monolithic cluster ****.

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05-12-2010, 01:39 AM
  #8
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I have a much better feeling this time around than last year. Last year the Canucks didn't look like they could match the Hawks in a two-way game. If they wanted to be competetive they had to really sit back and allow the Hawks to dictate how the game was going to unfold.

Fast forward to this year and I saw a team that could match the Hawks skill and speed and more than held their own at even strength. The issues obviously were the discipline and the atrocious penalty killing that didn't give them a chance to be competetive in the series. It also didn't help that their best penalty killer by a country mile Willie Mitchell couldn't return from injury and their best defensive forward had an abysmal series due to an obviously damaged shoulder.

IMO it's a hell of a lot easier finding upgrades on the PK than it is to assemble a team that can skate with the Hawks. That's why this season's loss isn't as demoralizing as last year's IMO. There should be some upgrades out there, there's cap space to go out and get them not to mention there's an abundance of depth up fron to possibly fill a big hole on defense.

The Hawks were the better team from top to bottom and it showed through by the end. The Canucks simply couldn't defend shorthanded. The Canucks achilles heel in the regular season ended up being their downfall come playoff time as well. Pretty predictable demise.

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05-12-2010, 01:41 AM
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Sayonara77
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Agreed with Kesler. What a warrior. Overall nice assessment and well thought out. Bieksa should be in the bad category, had just one good game.

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05-12-2010, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I have a much better feeling this time around than last year. Last year the Canucks didn't look like they could match the Hawks in a two-way game. If they wanted to be competetive they had to really sit back and allow the Hawks to dictate how the game was going to unfold.

Fast forward to this year and I saw a team that could match the Hawks skill and speed and more than held their own at even strength.
it is amazing how two different canuck fans can watch the same series and have an exact opposite impression

in the games that the hawks decided to play this series the canucks had absolutely no answer, from the goaltender on out

the more i think about and analyze the series the more i see a regression rather than a progression

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05-12-2010, 01:46 AM
  #11
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I would move Luongo and Edler up one grade, and Bieksa down two grades if possible.

Edler was all I expected of him at his age, and more. He really shouldered the load once we lost Mitchell and played way more minutes than accustomed to from that point of the year until now.

Luongo is only as good as his left-hand man (Mitchell). We need Mitchell back or someone else like him, as a calming measure for Luongo is nothing else. The big stick of Willie helps Luongo keep square to the shooter and know he won't be alone on rebounds - I am sure I am understating just how profound and affect it is.

D. Sedin and Samuelsson were definitely frustrating this round.

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Old
05-12-2010, 01:55 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
it is amazing how two different canuck fans can watch the same series and have an exact opposite impression

in the games that the hawks decided to play this series the canucks had absolutely no answer, from the goaltender on out

the more i think about and analyze the series the more i see a regression rather than a progression
Take a look at where the damage was done. It was done when the Canucks couldn't stay disciplined and were sitting in the penalty box.

The Hawks did not dominate the majority of this series at even strength. It was very evenly matched 5 on 5 and the series got away from Vancouver on the PK.

Finding upgrades for the PK shouldn't be an impossible task. That's the silver lining.

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05-12-2010, 01:55 AM
  #13
NuxFan09
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The thing about Bieksa is he just has so many desirable qualities. He's more mobile than anyone gives him credit for, he actually has some legit offensive skill, and he CAN be mean when he wants to.

He's the kinda guy that if he could just woke up he'd be extremely valuable. Unfortunately, his head is just nowhere to be found most nights.

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05-12-2010, 01:59 AM
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Jack Tripper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Take a look at where the damage was done. It was done when the Canucks couldn't stay disciplined and were sitting in the penalty box.

The Hawks did not dominate the majority of this series at even strength. It was very evenly matched 5 on 5 and the series got away from Vancouver on the PK.

Finding upgrades for the PK shouldn't be an impossible task. That's the silver lining.
i saw the hawks dominate the canucks in overall team speed and physicality

sedins weren't able to establish any cycle game 5-on-5, canuck forwards weren't able to pressure any hawk d-men on the forecheck, and canuck d-men were unable to handle the bigger hawk forwards in front of their own net and in their own zone

glazing over these issues by reducing the canuck problems to specialty teams and discipline would be a big mistake

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05-12-2010, 02:04 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by NuxFan09 View Post
The thing about Bieksa is he just has so many desirable qualities. He's more mobile than anyone gives him credit for, he actually has some legit offensive skill, and he CAN be mean when he wants to.

He's the kinda guy that if he could just woke up he'd be extremely valuable. Unfortunately, his head is just nowhere to be found most nights.
He makes Marc-Andre Bergeron look like a defensive specialist.

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05-12-2010, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
i saw the hawks dominate the canucks in overall team speed and physicality

sedins weren't able to establish any cycle game 5-on-5, canuck forwards weren't able to pressure any hawk d-men on the forecheck, and canuck d-men were unable to handle the bigger hawk forwards in front of their own net and in their own zone

glazing over these issues by reducing the canuck problems to specialty teams and discipline would be a big mistake
Time of possession, shots on goal and goals for/against at even strength disagree - and I do too.

The Canucks had the Hawks running around a lot in this series and Vancouver's speed gave the bigger Hawks problems in open ice a lot as well. It happened many times where the Canucks couldn't get a timely penalty kill and the momentumn would swing in Chicago's favour. After that the Canucks unravelled and the rest is history.

If the Canucks got high end penalty killing in this series they're on the winning end of it. Unfortunately they were absolutely ventilated when shorthanded and that was too much to overcome against one of the league's elite defensive teams.

The Canucks scored more goals than should have been expected. Unfortunately they just couldn't keep the puck out of their net. The defense just wasn't good enough, Luongo didn't rise to the occasion and the PK was as bad as I've ever seen as a Canuck fan.

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05-12-2010, 02:21 AM
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Jack Tripper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Time of possession, shots on goal and goals for/against at even strength disagree - and I do too.

The Canucks had the Hawks running around a lot in this series and Vancouver's speed gave the bigger Hawks problems in open ice a lot as well. It happened many times where the Canucks couldn't get a timely penalty kill and the momentumn would swing in Chicago's favour. After that the Canucks unravelled and the rest is history.

If the Canucks got high end penalty killing in this series they're on the winning end of it.
Unfortunately they were absolutely ventilated when shorthanded and that was too much to overcome against one of the league's elite defensive teams.

The Canucks scored more goals than should have been expected. Unfortunately they just couldn't keep the puck out of their net. The defense just wasn't good enough, Luongo didn't rise to the occasion and the PK was as bad as I've ever seen as a Canuck fan.
sorry but i can't agree with the idea of this series being winnable solely if the pk was better

even strength stats are very deceptive because while the hawks led the canucks in even strength shots on goal in games 1 and 2, the canucks led in even strength shots in games 3 and 4...obviously the team that is behind gets more even strength pressure as the leading team goes into full blown defend mode

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05-12-2010, 02:26 AM
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Luongo was never really bad this series. He let in bad goals, but for the most part, the defence is what let the team down. They couldn't contain the Hawks' best players and they couldn't clear the puck away from in front of the net.

Plus, if you watched tonight's game, every goal scored on Luongo was either a 1-1 or a 2-1. You can't expect goalies to stop every one. He stopped a big one in the 1st period and that should have gave the Canucks momentum.

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05-12-2010, 02:26 AM
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Canucks just need to add players on the 4th line that contribute come time for playoffs. I would hope for Mike Gillis to show Hansen and RJ the door. Rypien is a well worth commodity during the regular season, but come playoff time he is useless. If we can replace these 3, with players who bring a physical edge, and can play the pk. I like where our team is headed.


Secondly, we really need someone like Mitchell. Best case scenario he comes back for a discount, and we also sign one more dman.

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05-12-2010, 02:30 AM
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Andre Boudrias
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Bernier was one of our better players last year and I stand by that today. Im dissapointed with the little minutes he got being on the 4th line and what not. This guy is the only one hitting making good plays and putting some great effort out there on the ice. C'mon now, Bernier looked like "A man possessed" in the playoffs.

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05-12-2010, 10:30 AM
  #21
Jack Tripper
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The Injury Excuse

it may be my pet peeve to hear the argument that but for certain canuck injuries, they would've won the series...

every team has to deal with injuries in the playoffs...montreal has markov/mara/spacek/gill, boston has seidenberg/sturm/krejci, philadelphia has carter/laperierre/boucher/giroux, chicago has johnsson, ect...

for vancouver, mitchell was a big loss, but last time i checked he was a key contributor last year and the canucks still lost in 6 games to the hawks in a more competitive fashion...salo and edler injuries hurt but the series was effectively over after game 4 by the time they got injured in games 5 and 6

as far as kesler playing with a shoulder injury, i can't remember the last team eliminated from the playoffs that didn't have at least one player hurt...many canuck fans derided whiny kings fans after it was revealed that doughty, among others, was playing hurt in the previous series...additionally, it wouldn't surprise me after the hawks go out to hear of injured players on their team (although they got plenty of time to heal during the vancouver series due to the friendly treatment they received from the canucks)

if the argument is that wait until next year when the canucks get the breaks, it not only becomes a convenient excuse but also neglects the fact that alot of good teams create their own luck...for example, in this series, chicago wore down vancouver with their physical play, put pressure on d-men to take advantage of bad ice in vancouver, and forced luongo to make extremely difficult saves almost every period

in short, while the injury excuse may be arguable if a team goes through an injury epidemic, the canucks were no less healthy than in many cases more healthy than the remaining playoff teams

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05-12-2010, 10:37 AM
  #22
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Yeah I don't think many will argue that Canucks avoided injuries more than most playoff teams. Everyone is nicked up this time of year.

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05-12-2010, 10:39 AM
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Mistakes made and their solutions

From my perspectives here were some of the mistakes made this year/this playoff/game 6 and their possible solutions:

1) Salo should not have dressed. I don't buy that a 50% o 60% Salo was better than a 100% Baumgartner (confirmed Rome was not ready to play). If they were hell bent to dress Salo (which obviously they were) then, in my mind, you have to dress 7 d-men. Mistake

2) Gillis, even though he obviously tried, failed to find that #5 d-man we needed for the playoff run - he got us a #6 at best in lberts. Mistake

3) Vinny was out coached again this playoff. Regular season the man did wonders but once again he was out foxed by the opponent. Mistake

4) Rypien scratched. Really? Are you telling me that Demitra played better on the 3rd line that Rypien would. He is a banger, he would get in front of net and he is an inspirational leader on the ice. Why was he scratched? Mistake

5) Luongo made captain. Silly to put that much pressure and responsibility on a goalie - especially during the playoffs. Goalies are all emotionally fragile creatures of habit and superstition - giving Luongo this "honor" did nothing but help him get off his game for the playoffs. Mistake

Solutions:

1) Fire Vinny. I like our coach, he's funny, extremely well spoken and obviously bright but he is constantly out coached come playoff time - where and when it counts.

2) Gillis must acquire at least 2 top 5 d-men this summer or else it will be his undoing.

3) Politely take captaincy away from Luongo and give to Kesler.

4) Take the time this summer to get rid of some obvious dead weight around here - key non-signing and some astute contract wrangling would do.

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05-12-2010, 10:51 AM
  #24
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Is it the travel?

Okay, this year we know that it happened to be the D that faltered, but there seem to be systemic problems with the Canucks. They have the worst travel schedule in the league every year, measured e.g. by total miles flown, and there's not much to be done about it unless the NHL puts teams in Victoria, Seattle, and Portland -- it's a fact of geography. And year after year the team seems to be among the leaders in man-games missed due to injury, and to fall apart physically in the playoffs perhaps more than other teams. Coincidence?

Having Henrik win the Art Ross trophy is a great accomplishment, but I wonder whether or not the Canucks should adopt a strategy of aggressively resting players during the regular season, especially on road trips (at least in the second half of a season with a good team, once it's clear that they're not in a close race just to make the playoffs). Especially for some of these one-game trips to Alberta or California, they could leave one or two players at home (different guys each time), but you could also shave one game off either end of each longer road trip for one or two players. Maybe you're slightly less likely to win the division as a result -- if your top 6 forwards get rested 3 games each, the experiment adds up to one Daniel Sedin-sized injury -- but on average it's not going to cost you more than a handful of regular season points, and if the goal is to be ready to win in the playoffs....

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05-12-2010, 10:54 AM
  #25
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see the injury excuse thread for similar reply

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