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MSN Top 10 Hockey Coaches All-time?

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Old
05-14-2010, 08:25 PM
  #51
Canadiens1958
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Trap

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Originally Posted by jkrx View Post
Though Soviets coaching style havent changed much since Tarasov (except maybe natural adaption to other teams strategies). All russian coaches still have some well-read books about Tarasovs coaching philosofies.

Swedish coaches developed the defensive side of the game which later were adopted by Jaques Lemaire and Bowman (with Burns, I think it was, stating Canada invented the tactics ).
Basically "The Trap" can be traced back to the Blake coached Canadiens. Eliminate offensive options for the opposition trapping them into situations where only high risk options are left with a great possibility of a turnover resulting in an odd man rush. Lachine in the old MMJHL played a similar style when Lemaire played his junior as did NDG where Bowman coached a bit of junior in between Peterborough and Montreal in the OHA. Lemaire then played junior for Bowman with the Junior Canadiens.

Bowman and Lemaire then added the various European elements as the game evolved. "The Trap" is a 1990's media description that took writers about 40 years to figure out and produce a buzz word.

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Old
05-15-2010, 03:23 AM
  #52
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The reality of the 1972 Summit Series is that after five games the Soviets had a 3-1-1 advantage with the remaining three games scheduled for Moscow. What happened? Well the Soviets ran out of gas in each of the last three games with Canada playing strongly in the third period and winning three straight and the series. Still waiting for an explanation how such a well conditioned team could run out of gas against smokers and beer drinkers.

Effectively all the Soviet training was matched by Canada in a short period of time. There tactics and and strategy could not carry the day once the Canadian team had played them a few times and the Canadian coaches and players proved to be superior when it came down to in game adjustments.

So if within eight games a teams conditioning, tactical and strategic advantages are neutralized then what would happen if the same teams played much longer series or the Soviet players had to each play a seventy+ game NHL schedule? How well would they manage with their superior training? Canadian players managed to bridge the training gap in five games. Once passed question of how wide the gap would be further down the road.
Got any other examples than 1972? (so it would strengthen the argument at least a little bit)

Namely in the 1974 WHA series, just the opposite happened, as did in some shorter serieses like the 1979 Challenge Cup and 1981 Canada Cup, i.e. Canada/WHA/NHL started out strongly and then got outclassed in the end.

You do not seem to grasp either that when adding all the Team USSR games that Soviet elite players played a season (in the Seventies, often numerous exhibition games vs. NHL or WHA opposition too), the number is pretty close to 70+ games.


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Old
05-15-2010, 06:00 AM
  #53
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After 1972

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Got any other examples than 1972? (so it would strengthen the argument at least a little bit)

Namely in the 1974 WHA series, just the opposite happened, as did in some shorter serieses like the 1979 Challenge Cup and 1981 Canada Cup, i.e. Canada/WHA/NHL started out strongly and then got outclassed in the end.

You do not seem to grasp either that when adding all the Team USSR games that Soviet elite players played a season (in the Seventies, often numerous exhibition games vs. NHL or WHA opposition too), the number is pretty close to 70+ games.
After 1972 both sides adjusted their approach to conditioning since they realized that each approach had flaws.

Adding games together - other than 7 or 8 per season how many were against NHL level competition? Exactly zero as a rule.Also they rarely played multiple games in a tournament or series against the same opponent.

Against the WHA in 1974 the Soviets were playing against players in the 35 - 45 age bracket who were the key WHA players. Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Ralph Backstrom, Dave Keon, J.C. Tremblay.

You stop at 1981. Why? Well in the following years, Canada Cup 1984, 1987 as the series or games played out Canada got stronger, not the Soviets.

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Old
05-15-2010, 09:16 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
After 1972 both sides adjusted their approach to conditioning since they realized that each approach had flaws.
Adding games together - other than 7 or 8 per season how many were against NHL level competition? Exactly zero as a rule.Also they rarely played multiple games in a tournament or series against the same opponent.

Against the WHA in 1974 the Soviets were playing against players in the 35 - 45 age bracket who were the key WHA players. Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull, Ralph Backstrom, Dave Keon, J.C. Tremblay.

You stop at 1981. Why? Well in the following years, Canada Cup 1984, 1987 as the series or games played out Canada got stronger, not the Soviets.
So you were talking only about 1972 [and before]...???

WHA's Canada wasn't the greatest team around, but they came well prepared, had great success initially, but it was the Soviets who got stronger and the Canadians who faded as the series went along. Just one example.

1984 Canada Cup, sure, but 1987? USSR blew a comfortable lead in the 1st & 3rd final, Canada in the 2nd, but I think all 4 USSR-CAN games in the tournament were the sort that could have gone either way.


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Old
05-15-2010, 12:43 PM
  #55
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Just to put it in more perspective. Soviets national teams first game were in 1951, Canadas was in 1910. Canada had been playing hockey since 1870s somewhere while the absolute first game in Russia was in 1931 and it wasnt even popular. The first official championship in russia was played in 1946.

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