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Toronto/Carolina proposal

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Old
05-09-2004, 02:18 PM
  #1
ATG
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Toronto/Carolina proposal

To Toronto:Justin Williams and Jeff Oneill

To Carolina:Kaberle,Antropov,mid level prospect,1st in 2005

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Old
05-09-2004, 02:28 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
To Toronto:Justin Williams and Jeff Oneill

To Carolina:Kaberle,Antropov,mid level prospect,1st in 2005
Makes no sense for Carolina. They get a low round 1st pick plus they give up a good player (willaims) with pretty good potential and a excellent goal scorer when healthy (O'neill) for a so called soft defensemen and a young player that can hardly skate and takes really stupid penalties.

If anything the deal should be:

O'neil for Kaberle and Antropov

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Old
05-09-2004, 03:11 PM
  #3
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Kaberle and Antropov for O'Neill?

No thanks.

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05-09-2004, 03:40 PM
  #4
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I think that the leafs will have a hard time getting anything significant on the trade front before they re-stock their prospect pool.

This time last year Leafs fans were all worried about there defense. A good year from their over acheiving D corps have the fans thinking that they can let Kaberle leave without receive any D help.

I think that Kaberle and Antropov is over paying for O,Neil. The Leafs must keep there young players.

Leafs should go on the UFA and get themselves a player without touching there prospects.

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Old
05-09-2004, 07:09 PM
  #5
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Kaberle will be dealt only if the Leafs get another top 4 dman whether through a trade or free agency. If they do that I can see Kabby going and O'Neill would be a nice pick up.

Antropov definantly needs to go, he was terrible in the playoffs and he needs to go somewhere to develop.

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Old
05-09-2004, 08:32 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughstuff
A good year from their over acheiving D corps have the fans thinking that they can let Kaberle leave without receive any D help.

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Old
05-09-2004, 09:05 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
To Toronto:Justin Williams and Jeff Oneill

To Carolina:Kaberle,Antropov,mid level prospect,1st in 2005
that ''mid'' level prospect would have to be Steen

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05-09-2004, 09:10 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
To Toronto:Justin Williams and Jeff Oneill

To Carolina:Kaberle,Antropov,mid level prospect,1st in 2005
The only way this is fair is if you're a Leaf fan. The Leafs get the 2 best players in the deal, end of story. O'Neill alone I don't think gets dealt for that, let alone Williams as well. This is a nice dream for the Leafs, they can wake up anytime.

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Old
05-09-2004, 09:11 PM
  #9
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Why would Carolina do this?? Do you think they weren't watching the playoffs?? you know, the playoffs in which Kaberle and Antropov were pretty much the Leafs worst players.

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Old
05-09-2004, 09:13 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
Why would Carolina do this?? Do you think they weren't watching the playoffs?? you know, the playoffs in which Kaberle and Antropov were pretty much the Leafs worst players.
13 playoff games do not make or break a young player.

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Old
05-09-2004, 09:29 PM
  #11
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Let's break this down roughly.

Justin Williams = Danny Markov. That was made evident by a trade earlier in the year. This wasn't a salary dump, so it was a talent for talent swap. According to Bobby Clarke and Jim Rutherford, two NHL GM's, this is the value of these players.

Here is where it gets into speculation on my part.

Danny Markov = Tomas Kaberle

While I understand that Kaberle is more offensive than Markov, Markov is more of a playoff warrior. Kaberle had a rough playoff this year and that would surely contribute to his value no matter what Leafs fans would like to think. 13 games doesn't a player make, but 13 playoff games are of crucial importance to NHL GM's if those games happened to be in the playoffs. We know first hand with Sami Kapanen that a poor playoff year can deflate your value. Markov also has a more physical game. Yes, I understand that Kaberle is no slouch in this regard. However, Markov has consistantly been a more physical force in his career. I'd be more inclined to give the slight edge to Kaberle in this regard, but the differance is minute enough to not be a sure thing in either direction.

By this logic, Justin Williams equals Tomas Kaberle.

This leaves Nik Antropov, a mysterious mystery prospect, and a 2005 1st Rounder for Jeff O'Neill.

The 2005 1st Rounder will more than likely be closer to an early 2nd Rounder than a mid-first rounder if Toronto has their way. I honestly think it will come near the bottom of the first round. This slightly deflates the value of the pick due to the fact that it's not a "lottery" pick, and it's value is based more in it's name alone.

Nik Antropov has been a playoff bust during his short career and has yet to break out with a huge season despite his immense potential. As a 1998 draft selection, this was supposed to be his breakout season by the numbers but it wasn't. He still remains an enigma despite his large stature and obvious talent. Injury concerns are also prevalent.

I'm going to break it down this way

Jeff O'Neill >>> Nik Antropov
2005 1st Rounder and Prospect (Minus >)

Overall deal Jeff O'Neill and Justin Williams >> Nik Antropov, Tomas Kaberle, 2005 1st, and mid level prospect.

That's just how I see it. It doesn't make sense for Carolina.

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Old
05-10-2004, 07:25 AM
  #12
Owen Wilson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
13 playoff games do not make or break a young player.
you're right, but it makes their value pretty damn low right now.

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Old
05-10-2004, 12:54 PM
  #13
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just an ugly offer for the canes. if they are trading to get younger and better, and the williams trade exemplifies that - why are we trading him? i wouldnt be surprised to see a kaberle oneill type of trade - add something on either side to make seem fair to you. if you are taking yong players off the canes, stick to vrbata, svoboda, bayda.....you know, guys they would actually trade.

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Old
05-12-2004, 12:04 AM
  #14
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My deal would look like this Kaberle, Hedin, and Antropov for O'Neill and a 2nd round draft pick in 2005.

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Old
05-12-2004, 09:27 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn
My deal would look like this Kaberle, Hedin, and Antropov for O'Neill and a 2nd round draft pick in 2005.
I dun think that will work >_>

To be brutally honest this is a trade that probably won't happen

Williams probably won't be moved out since he's a piece of the puzzle for Carolina's future as is Jeff.

and for us to get O'Neill would cost a bit more then Kabs and Hedin I think.

if I were JFJ I'd worry about resigning my Key Free Agents before I go trading anyone off the Roster or adding anyone for that matter.

if we trade Kaberle for O'Neill our D looks weaker again, then what happens if Ken Klee gets signed by someone else?

and Marchment leaves?

well back to where we started from this year with Aki Berg in the top 4, and that's considering he's qualified which he very well could not be and we could lose him.

Pilar in the the top 4?

and last I checked O'Neill was a RW we already have Nolan and Mogilny there what we need I think is a Left winger with a great scoring touch so I kinda hope for Paul Kariya this off-season but I highly doubt that happens.

I just think our most glaring need this off-season could be a LW

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Old
05-12-2004, 02:04 PM
  #16
berney fkaj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander the Great
To Toronto:Justin Williams and Jeff Oneill

To Carolina:Kaberle,Antropov,mid level prospect,1st in 2005

I like that, but would be better you switched Hedican with williams.

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Old
05-12-2004, 02:42 PM
  #17
bleedgreen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berney fkaj
I like that, but would be better you switched Hedican with williams.
i like that better too, hedican is awesome - but williams is a more important part of the future. i would also rather have a good prospect instead of antropov and a mid-level. steen, kaberle and a first for hedican oneill and your second rounder back.

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Old
05-14-2004, 05:24 PM
  #18
Poignant Discussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever
Let's break this down roughly.

Justin Williams = Danny Markov. That was made evident by a trade earlier in the year. This wasn't a salary dump, so it was a talent for talent swap. According to Bobby Clarke and Jim Rutherford, two NHL GM's, this is the value of these players.

Here is where it gets into speculation on my part.

Danny Markov = Tomas Kaberle

While I understand that Kaberle is more offensive than Markov, Markov is more of a playoff warrior. Kaberle had a rough playoff this year and that would surely contribute to his value no matter what Leafs fans would like to think. 13 games doesn't a player make, but 13 playoff games are of crucial importance to NHL GM's if those games happened to be in the playoffs. We know first hand with Sami Kapanen that a poor playoff year can deflate your value. Markov also has a more physical game. Yes, I understand that Kaberle is no slouch in this regard. However, Markov has consistantly been a more physical force in his career. I'd be more inclined to give the slight edge to Kaberle in this regard, but the differance is minute enough to not be a sure thing in either direction.

By this logic, Justin Williams equals Tomas Kaberle.

This leaves Nik Antropov, a mysterious mystery prospect, and a 2005 1st Rounder for Jeff O'Neill.

The 2005 1st Rounder will more than likely be closer to an early 2nd Rounder than a mid-first rounder if Toronto has their way. I honestly think it will come near the bottom of the first round. This slightly deflates the value of the pick due to the fact that it's not a "lottery" pick, and it's value is based more in it's name alone.

Nik Antropov has been a playoff bust during his short career and has yet to break out with a huge season despite his immense potential. As a 1998 draft selection, this was supposed to be his breakout season by the numbers but it wasn't. He still remains an enigma despite his large stature and obvious talent. Injury concerns are also prevalent.

I'm going to break it down this way

Jeff O'Neill >>> Nik Antropov
2005 1st Rounder and Prospect (Minus >)

Overall deal Jeff O'Neill and Justin Williams >> Nik Antropov, Tomas Kaberle, 2005 1st, and mid level prospect.

That's just how I see it. It doesn't make sense for Carolina.

It don't make sense for Carolina at all but to compare Markov with his off ice activities (which was why we got rid of him in the first place) for Kabs who ya had a bad year but McCabe did the year before and people SCREAMED for him to be traded for assorted crap.

O'Neil and Williams are not crap and those 2 would certainly not get them BUT as dumb as a proposal it was the comments about Kabs being the worst defensman on the Leafs are equally dumb

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