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Favorite RPG out of these listed:

View Poll Results: ?
Dragon Age Origins 11 11.83%
Fallout 3 29 31.18%
Mass Effect 1 4 4.30%
Mass Effect 2 17 18.28%
Demon's Souls 5 5.38%
Final Fantasy 13 7 7.53%
Valkyria Chronicles 4 4.30%
OBLIVION IV: Elder Scrolls 16 17.20%
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-17-2010, 12:56 PM
  #51
Tad Mikowsky
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Going with Mass Effect 2 followed really closely by Fallout 3.

Mass Effect 1 was great, but had problems (like the clutter of equipment). Mass Effect 2 solved those problems.

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05-17-2010, 02:12 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
May I ask what's so fun about Fallout 3? Everyone keeps telling me it's an awesome game, and I'm thinking of buying it, but whenever I look at gameplay video, it looks like a lot of tunnel crawling and outside (ugly desolate areas) exploration, rather than action/fighting?
Some of it is definitely tunnel crawling, exploring, finding items and such. But a lot of it is story line, quests, finding numerous ways to get the information you need

For example in a quest you will be told, go here, find/do this, and come back.

Well you can actually lie to the person and tell them you did it, and if your charismatic enough(or whatever the stat is, speech?) you can get away with it and complete the quest.

Other times you'll be asked to find information that somebody else has. You can go about this many ways. You can pick the persons pocket, get their key, find their computer password, murder them for the key, etc.

What's so cool about it is the numerous different ways you can play through the game, numerous different ways you can achieve an objective. I don't think a single quest in this game has a linear path, there are many ways to finish a quest.

I actually find the game a bit creepy when you're tunnel crawling, these mutant freaks come after you in a dark tunnel, you may just be looking through shelves in a room and boom you get attacked or hear somebody coming.

It isn't too much traveling because once you find a place, you can jump there instantly using your map, so long as you aren't in combat

There are a lot of ugly desolate areas, but the game needs to keep in line with the story, it's a post apocalyptic world. It's the kind of game, if you give it a chance, you'll love it, if you don't, you won't. I find it only really gets good after 2-3 hours of learning the ropes, you may want to try Oblivion first, if Oblivion isn't for you, doubtful Fallout 3 is. (Oblivion has more towns, more people, more green less desolate ****hole, but no guns all midevil type weapons)

It's basically a typical RPG but in the form of a shooter, with a bit of it's own twist. It's very sandbox in that you can pretty much murder, rob or manipulate anyone in the game depending on the skills you choose.

Each time you restart the game, you can do it totally differently. I've always loved being a thief in games like this, so I chose to be good in sneaking, laser weapons and something else I presently forget the name of.

I don't know any way to really describe the game in a few words, you need to play it to figure it out. I downloaded it first to try it out and the PC ver kept crashing on me so I sucked it up and bought it for PS3 (29.99$, so worth it), if you like RPG's, shooters with a twist, etc, you should love this game. You can be a doctor, a scientist, a mercenary, a thief, and you turn your character into one of those things manually, not automatically, by training yourself in those areas. You have the option to learn other stuff too but if you go too general you'll never truly excel in one area, it's good to stay relatively specific imo. Like you don't need to be good in all types of guns usage or combat, one should be OK.

Doing different things raises or lowers your karma, stealing and killing innocent people lowers it, donating $ to charity, killing evil people etc raises it.

I'd definitely recommend Fallout 3 and Oblivion, both are epic. (This coming from a person who didn't like Fallout at first for the indentical reasons you said it looked boring, this can even be confirmed from the vegas thread if I recall correctly).

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05-17-2010, 03:08 PM
  #53
Jill Sandwich
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I don't buy into a lot of 'non-linear' ways of resolving quests. Ultimately, the only way to resolve any quest is the right way. The way that has the maximum reward with the minimum cost. Because why would you do it one of the ways that has less reward? And because of the way the experience works out, it's usually best to do every path and collect all the rewards anyways.

I also think karma meters are pretty dumb. The idea of playing a game good or playing a game evil is nonsensical. Especially in a quote 'roleplaying' game. The main problem is that in reality, the evil believe they are doing good. Any path described outright as 'evil' will generally make your character sociopathic and stupid. Or will be completely bananas in terms of tone.

I definitely prefer what BioWare moved onto (Mass Effect and especially its sequel focuses on ethics rather than morals, Dragon Age gives you a task and asks you what is the best way to achieve it), or the new Factions in Vegas. I'd like to see games move beyond Angel Descending From Heaven versus the Horned Demon God.

And honestly, the exploration is much better than the combat.


Last edited by Jill Sandwich: 05-17-2010 at 03:24 PM.
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Old
05-17-2010, 09:31 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Therrien View Post
I don't buy into a lot of 'non-linear' ways of resolving quests. Ultimately, the only way to resolve any quest is the right way. The way that has the maximum reward with the minimum cost. Because why would you do it one of the ways that has less reward?

I also think karma meters are pretty dumb. The idea of playing a game good or playing a game evil is nonsensical. Especially in a quote 'roleplaying' game. The main problem is that in reality, the evil believe they are doing good. Any path described outright as 'evil' will generally make your character sociopathic and stupid. Or will be completely bananas in terms of tone.
The maximum reward minimum cost thing is not always the case. RPG's ideally should force you to make choices with severe negatives in some cases. There should be no obvious best route and the game should have shades of gray that make every choice not cut and dry.

I agree that the Karma meter itself is dumb, but not the concept it represents. Playing 'evil' is a very legitimate way to go. Not all 'evil' doers believe what they are doing is right, they simply do not care. In AD&D role playing games for example, they have the following alignments:
LawfulGood Neutral Good Chaotic Good
Lawful Neutral Neutral Chaotic Neutral
Lawful Evil Neutral Evil Chaotic Evil

You can reasonably disagree about the merits of using such a system, but the concepts are correct in any package. You can be 'evil' and yet manipulate the law to your favor (Oil Companies) or someone with complete and utter disregard like a serial killer. There are differences and if the game is designed correctly it wouldn't just devolve into killing everyone senselessly.

On the good side your character could be a free spirit who takes justice into his own hands. Or like the evil side uses the power structure and traditions of the people to gain justice, even if not perfect.

Or Perhaps you are neutral and simply do not care about the plight of the masses or individuals. Maybe you are for law but only see it as a way to maintain order and not to enforce 'good' or 'bad'.

You seem to want to play a linear game, which are fine. However RPG's should not be cut and dry and have obvious solutions which are 'right'. Either that or you have played a lot of bad RPG's with poor decision making options on the 'evil' side.

Or perhaps more likely you are unable to play an RPG from a perspective other than your own which is why you only see a one right way of doing things. I know I have this problem, yet I understand people who can play the game as if they were an actor.

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Old
05-17-2010, 10:20 PM
  #55
Jill Sandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
The maximum reward minimum cost thing is not always the case. RPG's ideally should force you to make choices with severe negatives in some cases. There should be no obvious best route and the game should have shades of gray that make every choice not cut and dry.
It's the rare RPG that effectively uses shades of grey. Specifically in this case, Fallout 3 is not one of them.

Quote:
Playing 'evil' is a very legitimate way to go. Not all 'evil' doers believe what they are doing is right, they simply do not care. In AD&D role playing games for example, they have the following alignments:
It is not legitimate to have it defined as evil. As I said, even those who do evil believe what they are doing is right. Or they wouldn't do it. There is no such thing as 'doesn't care' when it comes to your own actions. If you do not care, you would not act. What we define as evil generally falls under the umbrella of self-serving acts... most of the time, a person is served best by doing what we define as 'good' acts.

And please don't pull out the alignment system. I roll the bones every week, I know all about the alignment system and its weaknesses. Hell, they know about it. That's why they got rid of Neutral, and replaced it with Unaligned.

Quote:
You seem to want to play a linear game, which are fine. However RPG's should not be cut and dry and have obvious solutions which are 'right'. Either that or you have played a lot of bad RPG's with poor decision making options on the 'evil' side.
No. Don't make arguments that aren't true, because it suits you.

And yes, almost all 'evil' options end up being idiocy. To play 'evil' we assume you are adhering to it at all times... and that is the exact opposite of self-serving. Which is why games are moving away from demarcating them as EVIL. Because it makes no sense. Is good not self-serving when it gathers allies and settles disputes in order to gain power? Is it good or evil to give aid to someone who can be valuable? Is it good or evil to approach a situation with brute violence... what role does the victim play? A binary meter isn't capable of expressing the complexities of human morality.

Dragon Age I feel bypassed this. You had no good or evil gameplay mechanic that you had to abide by. You acted as you would, and you gained or lost allies based on how your actions aligned with them.

Quote:
Or perhaps more likely you are unable to play an RPG from a perspective other than your own which is why you only see a one right way of doing things. I know I have this problem, yet I understand people who can play the game as if they were an actor.
A game is derived of gameplay systems. If you are deliberately ignoring ways of maximizing your potential from these gameplay systems, you are playing the game wrong.

Do you know what happens in those supposed non-linear decision points? You do every option, because then you gain the most rewards. You unlocked the door that lets you bypass a lot of combat... and then you go fight all those guys anyway, because otherwise you're passing up loot and experience.

You can build a character to be good at X, or Y, or Z... except you know that the game naturally favors X throughout the course. So why would you ever build a character with Z? The only option is that you didn't know.

And yes, a game can be built without these weaknesses. But, it won't. The best balanced fighting games will still have tiers, shooters will still have superior and inferior guns, and RPGs will still have useless talent trees.

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Old
05-18-2010, 04:13 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
May I ask what's so fun about Fallout 3? Everyone keeps telling me it's an awesome game, and I'm thinking of buying it, but whenever I look at gameplay video, it looks like a lot of tunnel crawling and outside (ugly desolate areas) exploration, rather than action/fighting?
If you like a game with a lot of story, a lot of exploring, a game that you will need to put MANY hours into -- you could try it. It's good bang for your buck if you like it.

The action/fighting is absolutely horrendous though. It's on the level of a PS2 game at best. It's really clunky, awkward, and just not very fun.

The story is really deep though (even though I hated the story for the most part), but its not a horrid game. It really depends on what you like.

If you like games with more action and a good fighting system, definitely check out something else.

I put a good 20 hours into it and overall, found it kind of boring. It was neat at the beginning with the exploring, etc.. but it gets old REALLY quick.

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Old
05-18-2010, 08:55 AM
  #57
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I haven't played the sequel yet so I went with Mass Effect 1.

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05-18-2010, 08:59 AM
  #58
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I vote for Fallout 3.

1.fallout 3
2.mass effect 2

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05-18-2010, 09:12 AM
  #59
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I don't know how you can say playing the game as good or bad is nonsensical, it adds more content to the game, maybe not for you because you choose to play it a certain way, but what's there to complain about really, the game still allows you to play it the way you want to play is so, I just don't get what the big deal is about giving you the option to do it one way or another. If you want to be good or make the "right" choices, you can. You can play through the game as a completely different type of person, maybe the first time you were a thief, now you're a doctor, now you're some crazed psychopathic killer, now you're the hero. I don't see what about that makes the game nonsensical as you put it, I mean really it doesn't effect the way you want to play the game and it allows other people like myself to play the game in a different style then you and also offers replay value in that you can play the game over only completely differently this time.

I don't mind linear path games don't get me wrong, I just don't understand the hate for games that aren't. To be quite frank I think Dragon Age is laughable by comparison to Fallout 3, if I wanted to watch a movie I would, games like that just fill half the content up with cut scenes and stuff, if that's your thing (and by the way I'm not saying Dragon Age is bad, just feel the content is a little lacking by comparison to Fallout 3) I guess it's more fun to some people, but I'm not the type of person who enjoys watching cut scenes, I find it's just filler to be quite honest, I don't mind them now and then, I just find a lot of games are a bunch of filler now a days, you beat them once and your done, if you go to beat it again and skip all the cut scenes, there wouldn't be much game. (Not in all cases, but in a lot of cases, and some of them actually force you to watch the cut scene.)

Anyways again, I'm not saying Dragon Age is bad, obviously if everyone had the same opinion, only specific games would ever sell, but from my point of view I just don't see what makes Dragon Age a better game than Fallout 3.

Just wanted to add that just because you choose to play as Z when the games balancing issue naturally favors X doesn't mean you are playing the game wrong, it means you are playing the game differently. If you can't achieve the main goal of the game, say you killed the wrong person or this or that, then yeah, you're playing the game wrong.

To say that just because you aren't taking the easiest/optimal path in doing so doesn't mean you are playing the game wrong, all it means is you're playing the game differently then the best strategy. This isn't a multiplayer game where by not using the best strategy, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot. While some methods are better than others, and I will admit, one or two are unbalanced to the point of being useless, for the most part you can beat the game with using any of X Y or Z, it just changes the difficulty and the how-to of it all. I see nothing wrong with this, it would be pretty retarded if they were all perfectly balanced as certain things are simply situational and you may have more/less situations to use it in, especially if you're new to the game, you aren't going to know right off the bat say, that melee is actually complete crap flawed and stupid to take.

I won't deny the game has it's flaws, I just don't see this as being one of them. Being that it's single player, as long as you can still manage to beat the game regardless of being good or evil, I just don't see how one way is right or wrong, both ways you beat the game. I know in many RPG's the endings are different, so I can sort of see what you're saying if you're referring to the optimal ending, but even then, what is the optimal ending? Maybe to you the optimal ending is being a hero and saving the day, to me it could be completely opposite. So really it's all dependent on the person really. I understand there are flaws in the system, it isn't perfect, and in straight path games, these flaws cannot exist, you get what you get and it's either good or bad, some people prefer this, but I just don't see how that makes Fallout 3 a worse game, because it doesn't use this style of play.


Last edited by neofury*: 05-18-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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Old
05-18-2010, 09:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
May I ask what's so fun about Fallout 3? Everyone keeps telling me it's an awesome game, and I'm thinking of buying it, but whenever I look at gameplay video, it looks like a lot of tunnel crawling and outside (ugly desolate areas) exploration, rather than action/fighting?
This review rom IGN nails it:

http://pc.ign.com/objects/143/14351020.html

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05-18-2010, 12:54 PM
  #61
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This review rom IGN nails it:

http://pc.ign.com/objects/143/14351020.html
Not even close.

A 9.0 on the graphics? One of the ugliest and most awkard games on PS3.

10.0 on gameplay citing "excellent combat"? Yeah, okay. If that's excellent combat, I might as well just stop playing games.

Presentation and Sound is the right score. They are both excellent.

Replay value also high, no doubt. I'd even give it a 10 here, if you like the game.

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05-18-2010, 01:14 PM
  #62
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Damn straight. Best RPG of all time
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Old
05-18-2010, 02:05 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Not even close.

A 9.0 on the graphics? One of the ugliest and most awkard games on PS3.

10.0 on gameplay citing "excellent combat"? Yeah, okay. If that's excellent combat, I might as well just stop playing games.

Presentation and Sound is the right score. They are both excellent.

Replay value also high, no doubt. I'd even give it a 10 here, if you like the game.
Coldplay is going way too easy on it, and you, way too hard.

9.0 on graphics? Come on, even as a fan of the game I think this is laughable, try 7.5, at most 8.

10.0 on gameplay citing "excellent combat", when I think of it from a shooter perspective, I say 6/10, when I think of it from an RPG perspective I say 8/10, 8.5/10 for being innovative, and I say innovative loosely. (They didn't invent the wheel, but rather made an RPG shooter, I find that to be pretty cool, at least the way they went about doing it)

So while I think definitely your mentioning of the graphics is warranted, the gameplay aspect I feel is more of a nitpick.

Graphics is extremely overrated by IGN, Gameplay only somewhat.

But hey, they gave GTA IV a 9.9 or whatever didn't they, and it isn't even as good as San Andreas, I loved GTA IV at first but honestly it's lacking in many ways.

I think IGN gives their best reviews to whoever speaks using $$$

That having been said, I don't think it should detract from how good a game Fallout 3 actually is.

When you play fallout 3 though, if you're playing it because it's a shooter and you like shooters, it's a like a 4/10, if you're playing it because you like RPG's, it's closer to a 9 or 10. I'm a firm believer that graphics (unless of course extremely bad/dated or extremely good, ground breaking) should not play part in scoring a game review. Fallout 3 has just average graphics as do many other games, I don't feel graphics should effect the overall score of the game, game play and other elements should play a much bigger factor.

It makes IGN look stupid, because they wind up giving a game like Fallout such a high score by padding the graphics score etc. I guess a lot of gamers do care about graphics, personally I don't. It doesn't make the game any more or less fun to me unless as I said, it's extremely poor graphics (dated majorly) or extremely good graphics (ground breaking stuff, graphics like you've never seen before).

I just don't see why so many people care so much about how the graphics in one game are 10% better than another, to the point where they just can't stand the one that's 10% less good graphics. I'm not referring to a game that's a 2/10 graphically, but I mean it seems some gamers can't truly like a game unless the graphics are at least a legitimate 9/10+, but I guess we all have our interests when it comes to scoring a game, so I guess that's why places like IGN give graphics an equal stock in the overall score as they do with game play.

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05-18-2010, 05:23 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
If you like a game with a lot of story, a lot of exploring, a game that you will need to put MANY hours into -- you could try it. It's good bang for your buck if you like it.

The action/fighting is absolutely horrendous though. It's on the level of a PS2 game at best. It's really clunky, awkward, and just not very fun.

The story is really deep though (even though I hated the story for the most part), but its not a horrid game. It really depends on what you like.

If you like games with more action and a good fighting system, definitely check out something else.

I put a good 20 hours into it and overall, found it kind of boring. It was neat at the beginning with the exploring, etc.. but it gets old REALLY quick.
That's the exact sentiment I get. I'm not much into stories, I'm more of an action oriented person, that's why Oblivion was a lot of fun for me, it had a lot of stuff to do and the fighting was pretty bad ass. I'm leaning towards buying Dragon Age Origins for the sheer enormity of choices etc..

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05-18-2010, 06:16 PM
  #65
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really close call for me between oblivion, fallout 3, and dragon age, but i picked oblivion

would love to play demon souls one day but i don't own a ps3

i'm hoping fallout: las vegas becomes my favourite rpg of all time this winter...game looks unbelievable in development

edit: who in the world who likes rpg's would vote for final fantasy 13 as best in anything?


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05-19-2010, 03:05 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
When you play fallout 3 though, if you're playing it because it's a shooter and you like shooters, it's a like a 4/10, if you're playing it because you like RPG's, it's closer to a 9 or 10.
What? If taken as shooter with RPG elements, it's OK. If taken as actual RPG, FO3 is horrible. 9 or 10 as RPG for a game with stupid FPS combat and grossly limited roleplaying choices?

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05-19-2010, 06:09 AM
  #67
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What? If taken as shooter with RPG elements, it's OK. If taken as actual RPG, FO3 is horrible. 9 or 10 as RPG for a game with stupid FPS combat and grossly limited roleplaying choices?
Ya dude but the world is huge!

Oh well. It's obvious that Bethesda is doing something right considering all their fans and since I didn't enjoy FO3 or Oblivion it's probably that I just don't enjoy that style of game.

I could never really get involved in FO3 or Oblivion stories which made what few decisions I actually got to make as a character seem unimportant. Also the world may be huge but I felt like it was full of a whole lot of nothing and that interesting finds were few and far between. Combine that with the wonky combat system and I personally found myself with a game that couldn't enjoy, much less pour countless hours into.

All that said though I'm still planning on buying New Vegas. 3rd times the charm?

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05-19-2010, 02:49 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
What? If taken as shooter with RPG elements, it's OK. If taken as actual RPG, FO3 is horrible. 9 or 10 as RPG for a game with stupid FPS combat and grossly limited roleplaying choices?
Yeah but keep in mind, the battle system does use VATS and AP(basically mana). It isn't just as straight forward as being a shooter.

If taken as a shooter, it's garbage, because it isn't one, it doesn't have the same engine as a solid shooter has.

If taken as an RPG, I would call it a 9 easily. Whether you want to label it action RPG, adventure RPG, I don't care. It's certainly not a shooter with RPG elements, I more-so consider it an action RPG with shooter elements. I would most definitely call it an RPG before a shooter.

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05-19-2010, 02:54 PM
  #69
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Ya dude but the world is huge!

Oh well. It's obvious that Bethesda is doing something right considering all their fans and since I didn't enjoy FO3 or Oblivion it's probably that I just don't enjoy that style of game.

I could never really get involved in FO3 or Oblivion stories which made what few decisions I actually got to make as a character seem unimportant. Also the world may be huge but I felt like it was full of a whole lot of nothing and that interesting finds were few and far between. Combine that with the wonky combat system and I personally found myself with a game that couldn't enjoy, much less pour countless hours into.

All that said though I'm still planning on buying New Vegas. 3rd times the charm?
See I liked Oblivion even more than Fallout 3, and I haven't played ME or ME2

But I can understand why people don't like it, doesn't make it a bad game though. I don't like Ocarina of Time, I find it's overrated, doesn't make it a 5/10 though. Take all the reviews of fallout 3, ranging from retarded 10/10 type reviews IGN gives to more strict reviews, get an average, and that's likely what the game really is on 10. Of course sometimes people won't like a game because it's just not their thing, like in your case with Fallout 3.

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05-19-2010, 02:55 PM
  #70
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really close call for me between oblivion, fallout 3, and dragon age, but i picked oblivion

would love to play demon souls one day but i don't own a ps3

i'm hoping fallout: las vegas becomes my favourite rpg of all time this winter...game looks unbelievable in development

edit: who in the world who likes rpg's would vote for final fantasy 13 as best in anything?
If you liked Oblivion imo Fallout 3 would've been the best choice for you. I want to play Demon's Soul also but I can't find it anywhere for some reason.

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05-19-2010, 03:00 PM
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Zodiac
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
If you liked Oblivion imo Fallout 3 would've been the best choice for you. I want to play Demon's Soul also but I can't find it anywhere for some reason.
i see demon's souls once in a while @ futureshop. i ordered my copy from amazon.ca because back when it first came out, it wasn't anywhere to be found locally.

http://www.amazon.ca/Atlus-DS-00132-...4299023&sr=8-1

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05-19-2010, 03:29 PM
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edit: who in the world who likes rpg's would vote for final fantasy 13 as best in anything?
It's a solid game. It's not as good as FF7 or FF8, but its decent enough. Especially in comparison to the other two games on the list that I've played.

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05-19-2010, 03:59 PM
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Yeah but keep in mind, the battle system does use VATS and AP(basically mana). It isn't just as straight forward as being a shooter.

If taken as a shooter, it's garbage, because it isn't one, it doesn't have the same engine as a solid shooter has.

If taken as an RPG, I would call it a 9 easily. Whether you want to label it action RPG, adventure RPG, I don't care. It's certainly not a shooter with RPG elements, I more-so consider it an action RPG with shooter elements. I would most definitely call it an RPG before a shooter.
Well, to each his own. I would call Mass Effect a 9, Mass Effect 2 maybe even 10. Hell, Fallout 2 was a 10++, and FO3 doesn't compare to it even remotedly competitively on any level. It is somewhere in the 5-6 range, and even if I liked it, I don't think it deserves a 9 or 10, which is something reserved for true masterpieces.

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05-20-2010, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
It's a solid game. It's not as good as FF7 or FF8, but its decent enough. Especially in comparison to the other two games on the list that I've played.
I love how you referred to ff8, that took some balls

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05-20-2010, 11:21 AM
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Fallout 3!! VATS mode, and blowing up Megaton! In short a fantastic game

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