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Kovalchuk Market

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Old
05-16-2010, 02:58 AM
  #101
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If the Islanders financial situation allows it I have a feeling he'll end up there.

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05-16-2010, 04:43 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by stempniaksen View Post
Rangers will find a way.
I have no idea how, but they always do.
And LA won't, and we all will have no idea how they weren't able to find a way...

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05-16-2010, 04:50 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Shellz View Post
If the Rangers got Kovalchuk in some miracle, that team would have no identity whatsoever. IMO, You stick Kovalchuk where there is already a core and a team that is only on the rise..Rangers are not that. They are just lost in every direction.
This is pretty harsh, but from what I've seen from Kovalchuk he have proven that he can play on a team with no core. On a team like that nobody will expect anything more then he contributing every night. Kovalchuk can do that.

But I've never seen him fill a role on a good team with a strong core. He struggles when everything don't go through him et c. He have a tendancy to put his head down and jam it against a wall, instead of looking up and do what needs to be done in order to win the game.

So I think Kova needs to change in order to be successful, it won't matter as much what teams he goes too. Like maybe it would help him to change if he went to like Pittsburgh or Detroit, but he still needs to change himself...

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05-16-2010, 04:51 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Duke49 View Post
Really? Only 100?

Honestly, LA is the one that jumps out as the best fit. They can afford to pay him and they are already a contender. Makes sense at least. He has said that he likes Manhattan, so I don't think you can rule out the Rangers and maybe even the Devils, maybe. I mean I guess Atlanta is still an option, but I think he will have to call us first.

Oh and as for the KHL, I think it's safe to say that there is about a .0000000001% chance he goes there.
LA's a great option for any UFA that wants to win now, and tomorrow. They're in great shape cap-wise, and their core is rather exceptional. California isn't a bad place to live, either.

I wouldn't discount the KHL though. Kovalchuk's going to be filthy rich no matter where he plays. He might prefer the overseas lifestyle over an opportunity of winning the cup; something you can't really fault him for. He's human. People have their preferences, dreams, yada yada yada~

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And the GMs answer to whom?
In our case, he doesn't answer to anyone...

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Just because it's done doesn't make it right. So far, teams have been able to squeak away with these things because the instances have been few and far between. As it becomes more common and blatantly ridiculous, I fully expect the league to crack down on these "loopholes".
Doesn't make it right? Loopholes?

When a man breaks into someone's home, breaks his foot by dropping a television on it, sues the homeowners, and wins, then it's safe to say you'll find some flaws in a collective bargaining agreement.

What's important to consider with the current CBA, is all current players have guaranteed contracts. That job security probably came at some cost when terms were negotiated. I don't expect the league to crack down on anything.

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Originally Posted by Zeroknowledge View Post
If the Islanders financial situation allows it I have a feeling he'll end up there.
I would LOVE to see Kovy as an Islander. It'll certainly help rejuvinate our rivarly Or accelerate it, anyway..

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05-16-2010, 05:00 AM
  #105
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Um..how did you get that from anything that I said? I feel no sentiment for Redden. Quite the opposite actually, if you read and understood what I wrote.

And like I said, it's not about having the funds to take risks. I understand that a team like the Rangers has more flexibility than a team like Columbus, that has always seemed to be operating on a budget below the cap. What I'm saying is that it's about sustaining accountability for taking those risks. I have no problem with Sather going out and offering Redden 6.5mil when a team like Columbus (sorry to keep picking on you Jacket fans) can't. My issue comes into play when Sather up and decides he made a booboo and sends down Redden rather than having to face the consequences of making poor managerial decisions. It sets a bad example for the league and opens the door for all kinds of mayhem during free agency, as GMs of wealthier teams won't see these ridiculous contract offers as future impediments anymore.
Redden scored 38 pts his last year in Ottawa; spliting a lot of PP time with Corvo, Mezaros, Alfie on the point and Schubert.

Had Redden come to NY and delivered on the PP point I would have agreed with you. I agreed with you 12 months ago.

But Wade Redden scored 13 pts this season. This is a not a case of a GM overpaying for a player, not any more, now its a case of a player getting a big contract and then the player stops delivering. Redden have been a mess in NY, 10x the mess as he was in Ottawa.

Doesn't a player have to perform in order to get paid?

13 pts is extremely worthless for a offensiveminded D. We are not talking about Scott Gomez/Chris Drury level of worthlessness. Like 65-70 pts from Gomez is not good, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility of him scoring at that level when you sign him. Chris Drury had never scored 70 pts when NY signed him, so they shouldn't expect him to score that much after giving him 7m.

But you should expect Wade Redden to score more then 13 pts in a season. You should expect him to score at least 30.

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05-16-2010, 07:17 AM
  #106
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Whomever win the cup, Kovalchuk goes there.

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05-16-2010, 12:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Whomever win the cup, Kovalchuk goes there.
Here is a list of things those teams have to worry about first.

MTL- Halak, Plekanec
PHI- Getting a real #1 Goaltender
CHI- They are gonna have to trade a few players just to get under the cap.
SJ- Nabakov, Pavelski, Marleau and Setoguchi.


Not gonna happen for any of those teams.


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05-16-2010, 02:09 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Redden scored 38 pts his last year in Ottawa; spliting a lot of PP time with Corvo, Mezaros, Alfie on the point and Schubert.

Had Redden come to NY and delivered on the PP point I would have agreed with you. I agreed with you 12 months ago.

But Wade Redden scored 13 pts this season. This is a not a case of a GM overpaying for a player, not any more, now its a case of a player getting a big contract and then the player stops delivering. Redden have been a mess in NY, 10x the mess as he was in Ottawa.

Doesn't a player have to perform in order to get paid?

13 pts is extremely worthless for a offensiveminded D. We are not talking about Scott Gomez/Chris Drury level of worthlessness. Like 65-70 pts from Gomez is not good, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility of him scoring at that level when you sign him. Chris Drury had never scored 70 pts when NY signed him, so they shouldn't expect him to score that much after giving him 7m.

But you should expect Wade Redden to score more then 13 pts in a season. You should expect him to score at least 30.
Good points as usual Ola.

But something to consider here, is it's not just about Redden's point production. That's not the only issue with his play.

Rozsival had a terrible, terrible year offensively, but he was at least capable of stepping up in other areas of his game, like his defensive play.

There was nothing good about Redden's game last season. He was very mediocre.

If I failed to meet expectations in my job, my ass is getting fired. Wouldn't it be nice if we had guaranteed contracts in the real world? We can all Redden our way to happiness.

Redden is lucky this isn't the NFL, where players can be released on the drop of a dime.

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05-16-2010, 04:50 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Redden scored 38 pts his last year in Ottawa; spliting a lot of PP time with Corvo, Mezaros, Alfie on the point and Schubert.

Had Redden come to NY and delivered on the PP point I would have agreed with you. I agreed with you 12 months ago.

But Wade Redden scored 13 pts this season. This is a not a case of a GM overpaying for a player, not any more, now its a case of a player getting a big contract and then the player stops delivering. Redden have been a mess in NY, 10x the mess as he was in Ottawa.

Doesn't a player have to perform in order to get paid?

13 pts is extremely worthless for a offensiveminded D. We are not talking about Scott Gomez/Chris Drury level of worthlessness. Like 65-70 pts from Gomez is not good, but you shouldn't rule out the possibility of him scoring at that level when you sign him. Chris Drury had never scored 70 pts when NY signed him, so they shouldn't expect him to score that much after giving him 7m.

But you should expect Wade Redden to score more then 13 pts in a season. You should expect him to score at least 30.
Hence, the reason the buyout exists. And you can't really expect anything from Redden. Players go through slumps, have down years, lack chemistry with teammates, suffer under various coaches, etc etc. You can't simply pin the blame on Redden and say he's not doing his best to earn his contract because you don't know that. Redden gelled in Ottawa; in NY, not so much. Is that necessarily his fault? No one here can call it one way or the other. Does he show up to games and play his minutes? Yes. I just can't see an objective intermediary saying, "OK, seeing as how he's 17 points from his expected offensive production this year, that's acceptable grounds for sending him to the minors." There are extraneous circumstances, like the whole DiPietro mess for instance. But Redden does not qualify as one of those IMO.

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05-16-2010, 05:05 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
In our case, he doesn't answer to anyone...



Doesn't make it right? Loopholes?

When a man breaks into someone's home, breaks his foot by dropping a television on it, sues the homeowners, and wins, then it's safe to say you'll find some flaws in a collective bargaining agreement.

What's important to consider with the current CBA, is all current players have guaranteed contracts. That job security probably came at some cost when terms were negotiated. I don't expect the league to crack down on anything.
Doesn't Dolan own the Rags? I really don't know.

That's all well and good about the guaranteed contracts. And if this was a discussion about players and not teams, I'd probably agree with you. All teams have to operate with the contract rules set by the CBA but what we're talking about are the "extracurricular activities" done by teams with owners more willing to throw their cash around.

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05-16-2010, 06:38 PM
  #111
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And you can't really expect anything from Redden.
What?????????????????????

Are you ****ing kidding me? The second you're hired by someone, expectations are set based on your accomplishments, achievements, resume, and so on.

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Players go through slumps, have down years, lack chemistry with teammates, suffer under various coaches, etc etc. You can't simply pin the blame on Redden and say he's not doing his best to earn his contract because you don't know that.
Well, Redden was terrible his last season in Ottawa. He was terrible his first season here in NY under Renney. He was terrible this past season under Torts. He's been on the decline for 3 years now. That's a ****ing trend, not a slump. Perfect example of a player regressing.

Every single dmen on this team, had more blocked shots than Redden. And points. Gilroy was the only defender that had less hits than Redden. Gilroy was also the only dmen to have less ice-time than Redden.

That's right. A 19 year old rookie had more ice-time than a 6.5M veteran dmen. That 19 year old ranked 4th dmen on our team, so it's not like he was overplayed.

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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Redden gelled in Ottawa; in NY, not so much. Is that necessarily his fault? No one here can call it one way or the other. Does he show up to games and play his minutes? Yes. I just can't see an objective intermediary saying, "OK, seeing as how he's 17 points from his expected offensive production this year, that's acceptable grounds for sending him to the minors." There are extraneous circumstances, like the whole DiPietro mess for instance. But Redden does not qualify as one of those IMO.
It absolutely, positively is Redden's fault. 10000000%.

You should watch how he plays, and compare it to other dmen in the league who are making a fraction of half his contract.

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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Doesn't Dolan own the Rags? I really don't know.

That's all well and good about the guaranteed contracts. And if this was a discussion about players and not teams, I'd probably agree with you. All teams have to operate with the contract rules set by the CBA but what we're talking about are the "extracurricular activities" done by teams with owners more willing to throw their cash around.
Dolan owns the Rangers. He has deep pockets, and Sather takes advantage of it usually come summer time.(I think every single GM in the league would do the same) None of his investments have lead to a championship, or final, yet Sather is sitting comfortably. After all these years. It's ****ing depressing man.

You're going to find flaws in most documents, contracts, etc. The majority of people will always look for loopholes, or ways to avoid certain consequences. I don't think it's a big deal, especially when professional franchises everywhere do it pretty often.

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05-16-2010, 06:55 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You're going to find flaws in most documents, contracts, etc. The majority of people will always look for loopholes, or ways to avoid certain consequences. I don't think it's a big deal, especially when professional franchises everywhere do it pretty often.
That's what I'm talking about: the flaws and loopholes that should be dealt with before they become bigger issues. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done; I'm saying it SHOULDN'T be done. The end result of abusing this flaw is a minor league of teams filled with salary dump players, another means by which to circumvent the cap. It's about plugging these holes before they become a bigger problem. Take the extended contracts for instance. At what point does the league come in and say, "No, you can't add that many years." I'm not sure but as far as I know, there's no rule to stop GMs from signing players into their 50s and bring the cap hit way down. But clearly that would be wrong and there would be something said about it. But it's the same idea as what's already going on, just magnified to a larger degree.

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05-16-2010, 07:26 PM
  #113
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That's what I'm talking about: the flaws and loopholes that should be dealt with before they become bigger issues. I'm not saying it CAN'T be done; I'm saying it SHOULDN'T be done. The end result of abusing this flaw is a minor league of teams filled with salary dump players, another means by which to circumvent the cap. It's about plugging these holes before they become a bigger problem. Take the extended contracts for instance. At what point does the league come in and say, "No, you can't add that many years." I'm not sure but as far as I know, there's no rule to stop GMs from signing players into their 50s and bring the cap hit way down. But clearly that would be wrong and there would be something said about it. But it's the same idea as what's already going on, just magnified to a larger degree.
Sather has been quoted on saying he's not a fan of Hossa like contracts. Most of his contracts are front-loaded, but I think the reason for that is to spice up the appeal to play here. It also makes it easier for him to potentially move a contract when it's near the end of its term.

I don't even think a team would claim Redden off of waivers, if that scenario happened. Even @50%, he's overpaid for his current capability's.

If Kovalchuk signs a 10/100 contract, and only averages 15G and 25A the first three years, should that team be put in a situation where they'll be handcuffed for the next decade, or more? Some feel they should. Others, not so much.

I personally would love it if NHL contracts weren't guaranteed. I don't give a damn about most of the players in the league. What I care about, is the success of my franchise.

If your team had an idiot GM, you would probably be on the other side of the fence.

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05-16-2010, 07:35 PM
  #114
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Detroit could be a surprise candidate

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05-16-2010, 07:49 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Whomever win the cup, Kovalchuk goes there.
hahaha, most definately false

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05-16-2010, 07:50 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
Detroit could be a surprise candidate
If he went to Detroit they would be looking to sign him to a short contract and I don't see that happening with Kovalchuk... You never know though

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05-16-2010, 07:52 PM
  #117
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If Kovy wants max money, he's gonna be playing in the NHL. A player is only worth what someone is willing is pay for him, and in today's cap system, anymore than 8 million, especially for someone with as many question marks as Kovy, just isn't happening.

I think Kovy signs for a lot less than people expect.

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05-16-2010, 08:04 PM
  #118
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Now I didn't read the whole thread, but I think it's totally possible for Kovalchuk to re-sign in NJ, he turned down $10M in Atlanta because they're not going to win the cup.

NJ is the team that has missed the playoffs once since they joined the league, that's consistency. Especially since they fired the coach, maybe the new coach will let Kovalchuk and Parise get more creative on offense.

Of course, both of them would probably have to re-sign for less to make this work, but if they both want to win, they may be willing to do...

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05-16-2010, 08:18 PM
  #119
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Isn't Kovalchuk a very private man? Can't imagine NY is a viable option in that regard.

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05-16-2010, 08:28 PM
  #120
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Isn't Kovalchuk a very private man? Can't imagine NY is a viable option in that regard.
Who's going to notice Kovy walking down the Street when Lebron's frolicking around handing out free hot dogs?

Most pro's who play for NY, dont live right in the City. Some of them live in Westchester county, few live in lower Fairfield county, etc. Upscale subs.

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05-16-2010, 08:34 PM
  #121
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Isn't Kovalchuk a very private man? Can't imagine NY is a viable option in that regard.
not to mention Kovy can't stand Avery, but rangers fans seem pretty convinced for whatever reason that he will sign there

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05-16-2010, 08:50 PM
  #122
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not to mention Kovy can't stand Avery, but rangers fans seem pretty convinced for whatever reason that he will sign there
You obviously didn't hear.

Avery's being traded to your Devils for Parise. True story. I read it on US weekly, next to the Lohan/Avery article.


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05-16-2010, 08:55 PM
  #123
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Who's going to notice Kovy walking down the Street when Lebron's frolicking around handing out free hot dogs?

Most pro's who play for NY, dont live right in the City. Some of them live in Westchester county, few live in lower Fairfield county, etc. Upscale subs.
I meant more attention in the press in NY than L.A.

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05-16-2010, 08:58 PM
  #124
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I meant more attention in the press in NY than L.A.
Lots of low-profile athletes have lived comfortable lives in the NY spotlight.
And I wouldn't listen to anything Kovy says. People say one thing, and usually do the exact opposite just to mess with us.

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