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Alexander Malkin/Evgenii Ovechkin?

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Old
05-13-2004, 09:48 AM
  #1
jhopspensfan
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Alexander Malkin/Evgenii Ovechkin?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_193851.html

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05-13-2004, 10:28 AM
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I for one am really excited about getting Malkin. His game may not be as mature as Ovechkin's at this point, but he has incredible upside. Plus, he's probably the best playmaker in the draft, and I am admittedly biased towards players with that skill. And of course he's good at finishing off plays as well.

I think that ending up last overall has turned out to be really important, because after these two it's a big dropoff.

 
Old
05-13-2004, 10:45 AM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhopspensfan
Some are starting to see the light, and putting aside all of the Ovechkin hype.

"Kyle Woodlief, chief scout and publisher of Red Line Report, recently wrote the following assessment after watching Malkin star at the World Under-18 championships in Minsk, Belarus:

Quote:
"It's not a matter of Ovechkin coming back to the pack; Malkin has just elevated his game to new levels. A number of teams now have the pair ranked in a dead heat, with some believing that Malkin's rapid progression and long-term upside make him worthy of the top spot."

Malkin dominated the tourney, leading Russia to a gold medal.

"You could make a case for Malkin having just as much, or more, upside as Ovechkin," Woodlief said Wednesday."
As much, or more upside than Ovechkin? Hmmmmm...

Quote:
One key is that Malkin is nearly a full year younger than Ovechkin and thus has more room for development.

"It's a huge difference at that age," Reich said.

Malkin also is fully recovered from a February concussion.

"When he was finally 100 percent, that's when people said, 'Oh my gosh,' " Reich said.
A huge difference being a year younger? Wasn't that what I had been saying?

Maybe it wasn't blind optimism I had, right Evilo?


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 05-13-2004 at 10:49 AM.
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05-13-2004, 11:41 AM
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Now I am not so worried. the good thing is Malkin will go second with less pressure to do as well of the bat as Ovechkin will be expected to. May be god was smiling down on us after all???? YOu know how much god hates the WAShouts ... I mean Washington

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05-13-2004, 12:16 PM
  #5
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Ovechkin Or Malkin? Does It Matter?

http://www.pittsburghpenguins.com/te...arts/781.0.php


at the end has the RLR quote on him

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05-13-2004, 12:29 PM
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I am really starting to love the publicity this kid is finally getting. Its about time too. All we heard was Ovechkin, Ovechkin, Ovechkin, no its Malkin's turn. Dead heat... wow, Vincent Lecaviler comparison... wow. The best part or it all is that he steps up his game when his team needs him. He can play physical and by the sounds of it, he can snipe too. Great to hear

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05-13-2004, 12:43 PM
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I still think Olesz will be the best in the long run.

I still dont see Ovechkin as being the superman he has been made out to be. I dont think hes as good a prospect as Kovalchuk was. I dont think Ovechkin and Malkin combined are.

Sometimes players develop early as prospects. I think that is the case with Ovechkin. He was so much better at 16 then everyone else, everybody just assumed he would continue to get better. He got better but didnt stay that far ahead.

Thats no knock on Ovechkin. Hes still the top prospect. The other players just got better a little slower and closed the gap.

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05-13-2004, 01:04 PM
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Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
I still think Olesz will be the best in the long run.

I still dont see Ovechkin as being the superman he has been made out to be. I dont think hes as good a prospect as Kovalchuk was. I dont think Ovechkin and Malkin combined are.

Sometimes players develop early as prospects. I think that is the case with Ovechkin. He was so much better at 16 then everyone else, everybody just assumed he would continue to get better. He got better but didnt stay that far ahead.

Thats no knock on Ovechkin. Hes still the top prospect. The other players just got better a little slower and closed the gap.
Kovalchuk never even made the Super League. He is also one dimensional.

He doesn't use his teammates very well, and I would take Heatley over Kovalchuk any day.

Malkin and Ovechkin combined not equal to Kovalchuk? Get real bro. lol

It's obvious you haven't watched the two of them play very often.

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05-13-2004, 01:25 PM
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Lionel Hutz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Kovalchuk never even made the Super League. He is also one dimensional.

He doesn't use his teammates very well, and I would take Heatley over Kovalchuk any day.

Malkin and Ovechkin combined not equal to Kovalchuk? Get real bro. lol

It's obvious you haven't watched the two of them play very often.
Take it for what its worth, I think Ovechkin is the #1 and probably a # 1 in most draft years. I don't buy this superman over-hyping stuff.

I think he has been way over-hyped and we will see him come back to earth when he joins the NHL. I don't have much doubt he'll be a star, just don't think he is the next Lemieux. We get Malkin, we'll be no worse off than the craps.

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05-13-2004, 01:28 PM
  #10
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I'm not a Pens fan, but anyone would love to have Malkin on their team. You can't go wrong in getting him. Sorry though, I would still take Ovechkin.

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05-13-2004, 01:40 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
It's obvious you haven't watched the two of them play very often.
I havent watched Malkin or Ovechkin play in the NHL.

Until then all we have is opinion. And maybe a little history.

How many greatest prospects since Lemieux do we have to hear about before one of them finally shows half the talent Lemieux had. Im getting tired of it. Especially with Crosby coming out next year.

Seriously though, can we have a discussion that a little more in depth then, "I watched them and I believe one thing so if you believe something else you need to get real". Can we please?

Many people will say Kovalchuk is a one way player. Many people would tell you otherwise. The guy is an offensive go to player. Maybe his allows him to cheat a little to generate offense. How do I know. He gets the job done so Im not going to complain. Just looking at the number of assists he has would suggest to me he can use his teammates effectively.


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Old
05-13-2004, 01:54 PM
  #12
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There are a couple of interesting articles floating around the Cpas board about McPhee being a bit less than pleased with AO's progress this year . . . found from a NY source . . . here are the two articles there as some here may find them to be interesting . . . of course you need to wade through a bit of Rags info first, but I found it to be an interesting read and it does seem that McPhee is partially doing what any good GM would do, seeing what is out there, but also is not sold on AO as the next Mario or the next anything yet, has a small bit of pause in that thinking . . .

http://www.hockeyrodent.com/RODENTYB.HTM

http://hockeyrodent.com/rodentyc.htm

Which also begs three questions:

With Malkin coming on so strongly of late,

1) are we testing the waters to see what we could get, if not we are idiots. I want Malkin, he is the perfect fit, we need a play making center, but why not see what offers are out there? I am not averse to taking a huge overpay . . . saaaay, the nextfour or five first round picks of this team or that . . .

2) what would your reaction be if Malkin is moved, and what value would be acceptable to you?

3) What if McPhee is one who likes Malkin as much if not more than AO, and came offering a trade, what would you give? Malkin and Whitney for AO maybe?


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05-13-2004, 02:43 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
I still think Olesz will be the best in the long run.
In what ways will he be better man? Defensively? thats what we do not need.

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05-13-2004, 02:46 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan

1) are we testing the waters to see what we could get, if not we are idiots. I want Malkin, he is the perfect fit, we need a play making center, but why not see what offers are out there? I am not averse to taking a huge overpay . . . saaaay, the nextfour or five first round picks of this team or that . . .

2) what would your reaction be if Malkin is moved, and what value would be acceptable to you?

3) What if McPhee is one who likes Malkin as much if not more than AO, and came offering a trade, what would you give? Malkin and Whitney for AO maybe?

1) If we get offered something ridiculous, a gross overpayment then I would definitely think about it.

2) I would be pissed if he is moved for nothing. If we get a top notch young player and maybe a later first I could agree with that. But the top notch young player would have to be really good.

3) If McPhee wants Malkin so bad let him take him 1st overall. Theres no sense loosing Whitney who is really starting to turn some heads as of late.

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05-13-2004, 02:52 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <Mr Jiggyfly>
Kovalchuk never even made the Super League. He is also one dimensional.
His TEAM never made the super league.

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Old
05-13-2004, 02:58 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kovalev
3) If McPhee wants Malkin so bad let him take him 1st overall. Theres no sense loosing Whitney who is really starting to turn some heads as of late.
I asked the same question a month ago and had most laugh at the proposal from the Caps perspective. I do think that overall perceptions have changed of late amoung scouts and on the boards. I am not sure if McPhee would consider that proposal or not, I do know that I would make that trade but wince doing it. So from my perspective it sounds to be fair.

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05-13-2004, 03:06 PM
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Thats fine man, everyone is entitled to they own opinions, but still, I would much rather have Malkin and Whitney, then just Ovechkin. To some this may sound stupid, but by the way Malkin has been playing lately and by the way Whitney's been playing for WBS, I think it would be stupid to make the deal.

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05-13-2004, 03:13 PM
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Interesting articles...good find, Jaded-Fan. And I agree with you that I would not want to give up Malkin, unless it was a huge overpay. Which, as we all know, does happen from time to time...although it's more likely that it would happen for the first overall pick, rather than for the 2nd.

As far as trading Malkin to get AO, I would be careful not to give up too much here. Probably this deal only gets done if McPhee actually isn't bluffing, and really isn't all that high on AO. If that's the case, maybe we could move up without giving up too much. It could be a situation like last year, where we get to move up without giving up too much. Other teams would have to give up a lot to get AO, but given that the 2nd overall pick yields Malkin we might not have to give up much more than that. Again, this would be based on McPhee really not being all that high on AO. If he is, then I think we should forget about getting him. And oh yea, for me giving up Malkin + Whitney for AO would be "too much". That would definitely not be a huge overpay like we've seen in the past, but it would still be more than I'd be willing to give up. But that's just me.

I have to say though that IMO the most likely scenario...probably by far...is that the craps select AO, and we select Malkin, without any trades being done. And that would be perfectly okay with me

 
Old
05-13-2004, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyMaster
I have to say though that IMO the most likely scenario...probably by far...is that the craps select AO, and we select Malkin, without any trades being done. And that would be perfectly okay with me

I agree HM . . . mostly from a non-hockey standpoint . . . these are GM's with some huge risk factors for them . . . the safe play for both is if washington takes AO, we take Malkin. Imagine if AO is filling seats here in Pittsburgh and DOES become the next Mario? or imagine the opposite, that Malkin becomes the best of the two (or AO even washes out), and whitney becomes a top five defensemen in the league? With a huge trade like that your bacon is really in the fire, for both CP and McPhee where holding pat brings no risk at all, who can blame the Caps for taking AO, or CP for taking Malkin? I do not see it happening.

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05-13-2004, 04:16 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kovalev
In what ways will he be better man? Defensively? thats what we do not need.
I think he will be a more dangerous offensive threat. I think all three should be capable defensively in the NHL. There have been far too many times where the cant miss, greatest since Lemieux first overall pick wasnt as good as one of the other top prospects.

I just see Olesz getting his status as a top prospect based on his capabilities right now. With Malkin and Ovechkin I think they are more hype and potential. Just to explain a little better. Lots of people see Olesz as a great NHL player. Lots of people see Ovechkin as a mythic super hero that will destroy evil over padded goaltenders with a single flick magical wrists. An increasing number see Malkin as lesser god but a god none the less.

What do you think is more likely. Ovechkin and Malkin destroy every record ever set. Or they simply turn out to be great players and Olesz could be just as good if not better.

Hey I hope Im wrong. Cause the Pens are going to take Malkin. But everyone is arguing like Ovechkin and Malkin are a given to be the best two players in the draft. History simply does not support that.

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05-13-2004, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
I think he will be a more dangerous offensive threat. I think all three should be capable defensively in the NHL. There have been far too many times where the cant miss, greatest since Lemieux first overall pick wasnt as good as one of the other top prospects.

I just see Olesz getting his status as a top prospect based on his capabilities right now. With Malkin and Ovechkin I think they are more hype and potential. Just to explain a little better. Lots of people see Olesz as a great NHL player. Lots of people see Ovechkin as a mythic super hero that will destroy evil over padded goaltenders with a single flick magical wrists. An increasing number see Malkin as lesser god but a god none the less.

What do you think is more likely. Ovechkin and Malkin destroy every record ever set. Or they simply turn out to be great players and Olesz could be just as good if not better.

Hey I hope Im wrong. Cause the Pens are going to take Malkin. But everyone is arguing like Ovechkin and Malkin are a given to be the best two players in the draft. History simply does not support that.
Ask anyone on this board, throw a poll up on the poll board if you want and I guarantee you that most people will feel that Malkin has better offensive potential. I would say probably even 70%. I think you may need to do a little more research on both guys. Malkin has been compared to the likes of Lecaviler man and Olesz a Holik type player. Holik may be a bad comparison, but Olesz players more of well rounded game, where Malkin and Ovechkin mainly focus on offense. Olesz is not as offensive as you think he is. Sure he is a very skilled player but honestly Olesz's offensive potential is not even close to AO's or Malkin's for that matter. Olesz is probably gonna be like a 60-70 pt guy at best. Malkin and Ovechkin should probably end up 80+ type guys.

And by the way, Malkin and Ovechkin are definitely the two best players in the draft. Followed by Barker, and maybe even Ladd who is probably the most nhl ready prospect in the draft. If Olesz wouldnt have had his concussion who knows where he would be ranked right now, or who knows what he would have done in those 20 or so games he missed. I would be sad if we took Olesz over Malkin, I am sure most Pens fans would feel the same.


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Old
05-13-2004, 05:22 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
I still think Olesz will be the best in the long run.

I still dont see Ovechkin as being the superman he has been made out to be. I dont think hes as good a prospect as Kovalchuk was. I dont think Ovechkin and Malkin combined are.
Sometimes players develop early as prospects. I think that is the case with Ovechkin. He was so much better at 16 then everyone else, everybody just assumed he would continue to get better. He got better but didnt stay that far ahead.

Thats no knock on Ovechkin. Hes still the top prospect. The other players just got better a little slower and closed the gap.
Lost it with that statement. As far as sheer prospects go, AO is the best to come out in a loooong time.
Whether it translates into NHL success is irrelevant when discussing who the better prospect was.
When Kovalchuk was a prospect and not an established star, his upside wasnt considered to be as great as Ovechkins as an all around player. And then you combine Malkin with AO and STILL think Kovalchuk is a better prospect than the 2 of them together???
Well, ya got me with that one.
As far as Olesz goes, everyone is entitled to thier opinion. But there is no way that I would draft him ahead of these two if I were a GM.

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05-13-2004, 06:07 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan
I agree HM . . . mostly from a non-hockey standpoint . . . these are GM's with some huge risk factors for them . . . the safe play for both is if washington takes AO, we take Malkin. Imagine if AO is filling seats here in Pittsburgh and DOES become the next Mario? or imagine the opposite, that Malkin becomes the best of the two (or AO even washes out), and whitney becomes a top five defensemen in the league? With a huge trade like that your bacon is really in the fire, for both CP and McPhee where holding pat brings no risk at all, who can blame the Caps for taking AO, or CP for taking Malkin? I do not see it happening.
I think you are absolutely right. GM's have a *lot* to lose if they mess up a big trade like that. Whereas if they just stand pat, they simply are not at risk -- even if they other team ends up getting the better player.

 
Old
05-13-2004, 10:56 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Kovalev
Thats fine man, everyone is entitled to they own opinions, but still, I would much rather have Malkin and Whitney, then just Ovechkin. To some this may sound stupid, but by the way Malkin has been playing lately and by the way Whitney's been playing for WBS, I think it would be stupid to make the deal.
IMHO, I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. Whitney has the potential to be a great PP D-man for the future, but at this stage I could live without him. We walked bass-ackwards into Ric Jackman who is young enough (and if doesn't regress) good enough to lead our offense from the point for a while. When was the last time we had a right-shooting defenseman that was any good on the PP?

I mean, besides Ian Moran of course

You can also mix in Welch, Nemec, and the longest shot Ross Lupuschuk to put a bandaid on some of the void Whitney would leave.

As far as Malkin. I have AO on my avatar just to spite the two or three Caps fans that seem to sabotage any Malkin post that gets created. I am indeed a huge supporter of EM, and for me being the type who always likes the underdog, I hope he becomes better.

But if I was taking bets, I'd throw my money at AO. Even though the knocks about him are coming out as far as his development at a young age and the like, I've seen enough of him to believe he's still in a league of his own.

IMO, giving up only Whitney and Malkin to get a player who is already developed to a point where the odds are against EM to reach would be a great play.


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05-13-2004, 11:02 PM
  #25
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If more and more scouts have these guys in a dead heat, there's no way that you trade one of the two and one of your top two or three prospects for the other one of the two.

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