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Old
05-15-2010, 05:46 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Laviolette WILL role four lines. He's not afraid to send our fourth line out there against anyone.

Powe - Betts - Nodl may not be as dominating as Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere, but they're still pretty physical, fast, and defensively responsible.
That is exactly why our 4th line could be very key in this series if they can go out and hit everything that moves like they've been doing and tiring out Montreal's first 3 lines it makes our top 3 lines job easier

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05-15-2010, 05:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Laviolette WILL role four lines. He's not afraid to send our fourth line out there against anyone.

Powe - Betts - Nodl may not be as dominating as Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere, but they're still pretty physical, fast, and defensively responsible.
Sorry, I mean that if Montreal only roles three lines, that is an advantage. Our fourth line this year is probably our best since the Primeau days.

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05-15-2010, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Because, I haven't been watching many Flyer games to really compare position to position.

Like I said, I get the impression that you are underestimating some of our players... But maybe in reality you guys are way better - hence why you claim that we only have 3 of 20 positions better than you guys.

As for the Habs players, Pouliot has been a complete fail this playoffs. He doesn't get top line minutes. Darche plays a couple of minutes, Metropolit has been limited as well.

Gomez and Gionta are probably a superior duo than Briere and Hartnell (or Briere and Leino). They have tons of chemistry. I'd prbly take Briere over Gomez (pretty close though) but definitely Gionta over Hartnel.... Leino, I hear great things but haven't seen him play enough to compare... But he is surely playing better than Pouliot.

Plekanec is our best all around player - and his numbers are lower than normal because he was taking on Backstrom and Crosby. I expect a bit more production from him now.

Kostitsyn has been turning the corner by playing more physical, but he still not producing... He scores in bunches, and historically plays well against the Flyers.

Cammy, I'm sure you've seen the highlights.

Moore is very underrated and very comparable to Giroux at the moment in his ability to possess the puck, great speed and shot. Horrible playmaker though it seems, unlike Giroux.

Moen is a big guy who is playing great - type of experienced cup champion that would fit very well in a Flyers uniform He does get top line duty, and I think I'd take him over any 4th liner you guys have.

Pyatt has the best speed on our team, and is a very very smart player which compensates for his size. Great on the PK.

Defensively, PK Subban is playing like a calder nominee for next season.

Josh Gorges is playing some of the best hockey I have ever seen by a d-man.

Gill is doing exactly what he did for the Penguins last year.

O'byrne is our most physical D-man.

Spacek has been great this playoffs in shutting down guys.

Hamrlik has been playing like crap.

Bergeron is good at one thing - shot from the point on the PP. Everything else, he is simply garbage. Prbly the worst D-man in history (which I find funny that you rate him better than your duo)
Ok Since I watched pretty much every Habs game and Flyers game I'll try and add some thoughts.

Gomez and Gionta are a better overall than Briere/Hartnell because they are not defensively liable, but they do not have the same offensive awareness.

Plek is also another great 2-way player that has had to focus on shutting down instead of trying to produce lately. That role will probably have to change against the Flyers, since we don't have that X player to lock down. I would give Richards the edge because he also brings a physical element.

Kost is playing like Hartnell has been playing before this series (Almost invisible), which is not good enough at all. Who knows if S.K has been having an affect on him, but Montreal will need to rely on him for physical play. Right now Hartnell or Leino is better.

Cammy... If Philly gives this guy space to shoot he will rip apart Leighton. If Carter was here and healthy I'd give him the nod, but right now Cammy is the best offensive player of both teams.

Moore is no way comparable to Giroux. I am sorry, but if he was then JM would be giving him more ice time. Especially when JM is only rolling 3 lines. Moen is comparable to Lieno, but right now I'd give Leino the edge because he has been on fire. He is better then Betts overall.

Moen great gritty 3-4th line energy guy similar to Asham, but probably better and can step into any line.

Pyatt similar to Powe pretty much, a toss up.

Lappiere. Good on FOs has some real energy, and when not playing like a ****** can be one of my favourite players. I say he being more productive then JVR right now, but JVR is still the better player in the long run.

Subban... Is playing like a vet, and I'm still waiting for him to have a "rookie" error. Can play top pairing minutes like showed in the last 2 games against the Pens. He is better then Carle probably both offensively and defensively solely because that kid has speed.

O'bryne will be a non factor since Spacek came back, and he will be scratched in favour of Bergeron for the PP and some 4th line duties.

Spacek. Playing good lately, but I would give the edge to Coburn.

Goerges very good defensively, hard to compare him to our D. He may be better defensively then Timo, but not nearly as offensively gifted. If Markov was playing I'de have to say he is better then Timmo.

Gill well we know what he is all about, but Pronger is a beast and I'de have to give him the nod.

Hamrlik even on his bad days will still be better then how Parent/Krajicek are playing.

I think that sums it up.

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Old
05-15-2010, 06:07 PM
  #29
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We all know Halak > Leighton.

The most important thing will be how our Systems match up and Coaches can adapt throughout the game.

I think both teams offense will be relying on turn overs, Flyers probably more on the forecheck and Montreal more on Neutral zone turn overs.

The season series went 2-2, so this should be a tight match up, and both teams have incredible momentum.

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05-15-2010, 06:09 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Laviolette WILL role four lines. He's not afraid to send our fourth line out there against anyone.

Powe - Betts - Nodl may not be as dominating as Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere, but they're still pretty physical, fast, and defensively responsible.
I don't want to throw Nodl under a bus, but he is trying to do some fancy crap in our own zone, which has put extra pressure on us for nothing.

If Lappy somehow comes back that line instantly becomes twice as good.

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05-15-2010, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I don't want to throw Nodl under a bus, but he is trying to do some fancy crap in our own zone, which has put extra pressure on us for nothing.

If Lappy somehow comes back that line instantly becomes twice as good.
He did that between the legs backwards thing twice.

Other than that he's been a great forechecker and solid defensively.

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05-15-2010, 06:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He did that between the legs backwards thing twice.

Other than that he's been a great forechecker and solid defensively.
Once was too much.

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05-15-2010, 06:18 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Once was too much.
Agreed. It was a "" moment for sure.

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05-15-2010, 06:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Fair enough.



Briere and Leino have found some pretty crazy chemistry in the last couple of weeks. I'd take Briere over Gomez and Gionta over either Hartnell or Leino individually, however I don't think Pouliot is the answer at wing (or anyone else for that matter save Cammalleri) to lift them as better than the Briere line on paper.
The chemistry that you have in your duo Briere and Leino is comparable to the chemistry with Gomez and Gionta. The only difference is that Gomez and Gionta have played the entire season together, and actually have won a cup together in NJ. These two were made for eachother. If I had to pick between two using, I'd go with the proven over the less experienced Leino and Briere. As for Hart vs Pouliot or Moen or other - to be frank, I find Hartnel greatly overrated.

This line - I'd take Montreal.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


If he's matched up with Richards or Giroux his job isn't going to get that much easier than Backstrom or Crosby. Richards may not be as gifted offensively as Crosby, but he's definitely got offensive talent, physicality, and he wasn't the Selke runner-up last year for no reason.

I would take Richards over Plekanec but Plekanec over Giroux. All margins are very close, but for 1st line comparision:

Richards over Plekanec

-Cammy (playoff goal leader) over Injured Gagne

-I'd take Cammy over a healthy Gagne too.

-A,Kost over Carcillo (if AK shows-up, if not, I'd take Carcillo...)



Very close here, if AK shows up, hands down Montreal. If not, equal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post

Giroux is outstanding. Moore is not the better player in any regard, and I feel very confident saying that.
I agree, I was just pointing out that he is underrated. You'll see that he is a good player though.

In any event, Darche is not really our 3rd liner. It's either Moen, Pouliot, or even Pyatt. (All three have seen time on the 2nd line).

I'd most definitely take Lapierre over Asham. Lapierre has returned to form, he will be a difference maker in this series.

From what I've seen and heard from VrD, he's got more offensive talent than our options.

You guys have a better 3rd line, with our advantage only Lapierre.



Our 4th line consist of something like Darche, Metropolit and either Pyatt, Pouliot or Moen. They've been getting limited action.

Advantage Flyers.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post

It's not enough to put him over Pronger, Timonen, or even Coburn with the way he has been playing. They've been pretty much lights out. Carle is on and off.
PK Subban has been playing like a vet for 10 seasons, he is undoubtedly a calder cup. I don't think you can compare him to Pronger, two completely different players. You will have a series to see what he's all about.

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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


You probably haven't seen Pronger or Timonen then. Not trying to be smart or rude (sorry if I come off that way), but if Gorges is your best defenseman in this series it might become an issue.
You're undervaluing Josh Gorges big time. He's been lights-out, error free. He's a lot stronger than his build, will never shy away from a hit to make a play, and is always matched up against Caps and Pens best forward along with Gill. Gorges is said to be our next captain. He's still an RFA making 1.1, and has another year on his contract. And he's been our most consistent over the past few seasons.

Like I said, Hamrlik and Bergeron have been horrible defensively.
Spacek has been heroic at times, but missed 4 or 5 games to illness.

Gill, Gorges, Spacek are all shot blocking monsters in this playoffs.

As for which team defensively is better, it's fair to say that the Flyers are more physical, and Pronger is playing lights out. Only bodies that we can compare size with is Gill and O'byrne.

In any event, our D has definitely stepped up in these playoffs.

Goaltending, the most important position, Montreal by a country mile.


ps: Also note that Markov, our best D-man, was skating in full uniform during practices. Still not confirmed if he'll play at some point in the series.


Last edited by coolasprICE: 05-15-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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Old
05-15-2010, 06:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
O'bryne will be a non factor since Spacek came back, and he will be scratched in favour of Bergeron for the PP and some 4th line duties.
When he has played, he's played big. I expect the Habs to play him given Philly's physical style. I wouldn't be surprised to see 7 D man dressed considering our 4th line gets hardly to see the ice. Other option would be to put Bergeron at forward, like they have done in the regular season

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05-15-2010, 06:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
The chemistry that you have in your duo Briere and Leino is comparable to the chemistry with Gomez and Gionta. The only difference is that Gomez and Gionta have played the entire season together, and actually have won a cup together in NJ. These two were made for eachother. If I had to pick between two using, I'd go with the proven over the less experienced Leino and Briere. As for Hart vs Pouliot or Moen or other - to be frank, I find Hartnel greatly overrated.

This line - I'd take Montreal.
I'll take Philadelphia's only because Hartnell's been playing well. If not I'd consider it closer.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I would take Richards over Plekanec but Plekanec over Giroux. All margins are very close, but for 1st line comparision:

Richards over Plekanec

-Cammy (playoff goal leader) over Injured Gagne

-I'd take Cammy over a healthy Gagne too.

-A,Kost over Carcillo (if AK shows-up, if not, I'd take Carcillo...)

Very close here, if AK shows up, hands down Montreal. If not, equal.
I'll take Richards easily over anyone on that line Cammalleri included. Gagne is a better two-way player than Cammalleri and just as gifted offensively, but unfortunately he's hurt. If Kostitsyn shows up he's better than Carcillo.

I might change my bid to that top line being overall better than Montreal's top line. Gagne's injury was the only thing that made me lean toward even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
I agree, I was just pointing out that he is underrated. You'll see that he is a good player though.

In any event, Darche is not really our 3rd liner. It's either Moen, Pouliot, or even Pyatt. (All three have seen time on the 2nd line).

I'd most definitely take Lapierre over Asham. Lapierre has returned to form, he will be a difference maker in this series.

From what I've seen and heard from VrD, he's got more offensive talent than our options.

You guys have a better 3rd line, with the advantage going to Lapierre.
I give it the Flyers' 3rd line as well only because Giroux is an absolutely dynamic player.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Our 4th line consist of something like Darche, Metropolit and either Pyatt, Pouliot or Moen. They've been getting limited action.

Advantage Flyers.
If you don't skate your fourth liners, then yes, advantage Flyers.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
PK Subban has been playing like a vet for 10 seasons, he is undoubtedly a calder cup. I don't think you can compare him to Pronger, two completely different players. You will have a series to see what he's all about.
I saw him in his 1st two NHL games. He's pretty fun to watch, but I'm not buying into the hype.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
You're undervaluing Josh Gorges big time. He's been lights-out, error free. He's a lot stronger than his build, will never shy away from a hit to make a play, and is always matched up against Caps and Pens best forward along with Gill. Gorges is said to be our next captain. He's still an RFA making 1.1, and has another year on his contract. And he's been our most consistent over the past few seasons.
That's fine. I'll still take our top 4 fairly easily.

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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Like I said, Hamrlik and Bergeron have been horrible defensively.
Spacek has been heroic at times, but missed 4 or 5 games to illness.

Gill, Gorges, Spacek are all shot blocking monsters in this playoffs.

As for which team defensively is better, it's fair to say that the Flyers are more physical, and Pronger is playing lights out. Only bodies that we can compare size with is Gill and O'byrne.

In any event, our D has definitely stepped up in these playoffs.
Our top 4 just has too much more talent in general.

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Goaltending, the most important position, Montreal by a country mile.
Goaltending is the least important position.

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05-15-2010, 06:49 PM
  #37
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I'll take Philadelphia's only because Hartnell's been playing well. If not I'd consider it closer.



I'll take Richards easily over anyone on that line Cammalleri included. Gagne is a better two-way player than Cammalleri and just as gifted offensively, but unfortunately he's hurt. If Kostitsyn shows up he's better than Carcillo.

I might change my bid to that top line being overall better than Montreal's top line. Gagne's injury was the only thing that made me lean toward even.
Cammy is a winger, Plekanec is our center. Wh compare a sniper to a center?

Like I said, Cammy over Gagne and AK vs Carcillo is pretty equal - if AK shows up, hands down he wins.

Richards over Plekanec, but this is no insult to Plekanec.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I saw him in his 1st two NHL games. He's pretty fun to watch, but I'm not buying into the hype.
Well then you should watch him in the playoffs - he's not just fun, but incredibly reliable too. Plays the PK and PP. He is playing 25-30 minutes. lol, your opinion will change.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post



Goaltending is the least important position.
Perhaps when both goaltenders are equal. Everyone knows that elite goaltending is often a difference maker. Hence, a big part of why we made it here.

Leighton is going to get tested big time, not necessarily by quantity, but quality. There are no shortage of great shooters on our team. If I were the Flyers, I'd stay away from penalties.

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05-15-2010, 06:51 PM
  #38
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Goaltending is the least important position.
Wow.

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Old
05-15-2010, 06:53 PM
  #39
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If anything Captain Cannon just proved to the naysayers that C on his chest in there for a reason. As long as he continues to lead by example and keep on trucking.

Another big win for the Flyers is that Lucic used his size and toughness beyond our means, but I don't think the Habs have that man with that dominating combo as much as Lucic.

Cammy is out of control right now, that goal when he flicked it up to himself was out of control, but that is why we mortgaged our whole future for Prongs.

So this is it, Prongs was brought in for this reason.

Am I wrong?

Hartnell, Carcillo, and Powe have to get in Halak's Head early and often, we need garbage goals, because he is playing Lord Stanely Cup Playoff Goaltending to a T.

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05-15-2010, 07:25 PM
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You guys can analyze each player until the cows drop over. It will come down to two things.....goaltending and penalties. If Leighton play great and the refs put away the whistle then chances are you guys will take it. If Leighton plays average then you guys are in a heap of trouble. Habs have substantially more scoring ability then Bruins and if you fall behind, Habs defensive system is miles ahead of the Bruins. On the other hand, if Halak plays average then we are in a heap of trouble.

So goialtending is the deciding factor.



P.S. If Markov comes back and Leigton isn't playing great, stay far, far away from the penalty box.

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05-15-2010, 07:28 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post

Goaltending is the least important position.
Did you really write that or is your keyboard possessed? This series will be all about goaltending.

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05-15-2010, 07:45 PM
  #42
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Did you really write that or is your keyboard possessed? This series will be all about goaltending.
So were the last two series.

So was the regular season.

The world is apparently run by the most overrated position.

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05-15-2010, 07:47 PM
  #43
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LOOK FOR BRIERE!!!

seriously though, he ALWAYS plays well against the habs.

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05-15-2010, 10:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
When he has played, he's played big. I expect the Habs to play him given Philly's physical style. I wouldn't be surprised to see 7 D man dressed considering our 4th line gets hardly to see the ice. Other option would be to put Bergeron at forward, like they have done in the regular season
Yet they scratched him against Pens in game 7 and the Pens have played more physical then us.

He has been good and bad. He can step in top4 for a few minutes, but hes not meant to be there.

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05-15-2010, 10:39 PM
  #45
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LOOK FOR BRIERE!!!

seriously though, he ALWAYS plays well against the habs.
He feeds off of their booing the way Crosby feeds off of ours.

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05-15-2010, 11:07 PM
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The player-for-player comparables are good fodder for discussion, but both teams are playing better than the sum of their parts. The Canadiens are playing like the Borg, and were adapting to everything the Caps / Pens were doing.

Flyers have to be much better a) on face-offs and b) with own-zone puck possession. They were regularly giving the puck away after having uncontested possession. Leighton also has to kick it back up after a mediocre game 7.

Both teams have committed to fighting tooth and nail for every inch and every goal. What makes me feel optimistic is that the Flyers were able to solve Rask, who really was the closest to Halak's goaltending of all other goalies so far in the playoffs.

This series is a complete toss-up to me.

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05-15-2010, 11:17 PM
  #47
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As habs fan I'm agreed with BernieParent, if you are able to solve Halak you will have great chance to win the series.

Depend of your goaler and if you don't take bad penalties.

Foward, if we analyse you foward, you have advantage.

Defense, it's even, I don't see Pronger a lots, it will be interresting to see if he will do a lots of mistake with a lots of speed. Anyway I think it's even.

Goaltender, Advantage Montreal.
This part is important because this affect PP and PK.

You was able to defeat Brodeur and Tukka Rask, so we will see. This will be interresting for sure.

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05-15-2010, 11:49 PM
  #48
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Quote:
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Goaltending is the least important position.

I've always loved the Flyers for beleiving that! Especially in playoffs...

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05-16-2010, 12:19 AM
  #49
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Goaltending is the least important position.
You're kidding, right? That's like saying pitching is the least important position in baseball.

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05-16-2010, 12:21 AM
  #50
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gomez is a ****** bag. hes an alaskian loser who snag fishes...which is for *******. learn to use bait gomez or pronger will be forced to dislocate your vagina.

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