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So, I noticed that we have quite a few D prospects..

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05-15-2010, 06:31 PM
  #1
chewey
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So, I noticed that we have quite a few D prospects..

I am amazed to how far this origination has come! I still remember reading an article about Burki being one of the Avs best prospects on the main site a few years back and now he is in the ECHL. However, since then the Avs have done an astounding job drafting Dmen! Here are our Dmen prospects right now listed by rank via HF.

1. (1) Shattenkirk
2. (2) Elliot
3. (4) Cohen
4. (5) Barrie
5. (7) Gaunce
6. (10) Chouinard
7. (12) Wilson
8. (19) O'Neal

Not Ranked: Holos

This would be my personal ranking from what I've read and seen:

1. Shattenkirk
2. Elliot
3. Wilson
4. Gaunce
5. Barrie
6. Holos
7. Cohen
8. Chouinard
9. O'Neal

I haven't seen or read much about the final two, but the Avs have signed:

Shattenkirk
Gaunce
Holos
Cohen
Chouinard
Wilson

and have strong feelings that they will sign Elliot and Barrie in the future. So, out of all of these Dmen who do you see actually making the team? Also, how do you feel about the Dmen we have?

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05-15-2010, 06:46 PM
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If everybody played at their highest potential and in their prime I would rank them....

1. Shattenkirk
2. Elliot
3. Gaunce
4. Barrie (Can drop 3 spots)
5. Chouinard
6. Wilson
7. Cohen
8. Holos (Could move up 3 spots)
9. O'Neal

Potential Wise
1. Shattenkirk - Top 2
2. Elliot - Top 3
3. Gaunce - Top 4
4. Barrie - Top 4
5. Chouinard - Top 5
6. Wilson - Top 6
7. Cohen - Top 6
8. Holos - Top 6-8
9. O'Neal Top 100

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05-15-2010, 07:44 PM
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Things can definitely change as prospects develop or regress but right now I feel pretty good about four of our defensive prospects. These guys would really have to slip up to not be given every chance to make the team when it is their time.

Shattenkirk (would be shocked if he's not on the roster at the latest midway through '10-11)
Elliot (Give him another year in juniors)
Barrie (See Elliot, but having seen him a few times in person I love his potential. Made a big jump this year)
Gaunce (Will need some time at the AHL level before making the jump)

I will say that Elliot and Barrie are similar so depending on how things shake out with some of our other prospects I could easily see them making a judgment on one and trading the other a few years down the road.

The rest I'm not sure. I don't see Wilson every being more than a third pairing guy and he was really disappointing in the playoffs. I haven't seen what everyone seems to love about Holos. Every time I watch him I am not impressed. Would be shocked if he made the team (as some have predicted). Chouinard I have not seen enough of to really say one way or another. Cohen seems like a great PP guy but beyond that very questionable. O'Neal is a career AHL guy from what I have seen.

Still we have some promising defensemen in our system and I look forward to seeing how they all turn out.

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05-15-2010, 11:29 PM
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Renegade Stylings
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrlinx View Post
Things can definitely change as prospects develop or regress but right now I feel pretty good about four of our defensive prospects. These guys would really have to slip up to not be given every chance to make the team when it is their time.

Shattenkirk (would be shocked if he's not on the roster at the latest midway through '10-11)
Elliot (Give him another year in juniors)
Barrie (See Elliot, but having seen him a few times in person I love his potential. Made a big jump this year)
Gaunce (Will need some time at the AHL level before making the jump)

I will say that Elliot and Barrie are similar so depending on how things shake out with some of our other prospects I could easily see them making a judgment on one and trading the other a few years down the road.

The rest I'm not sure. I don't see Wilson every being more than a third pairing guy and he was really disappointing in the playoffs. I haven't seen what everyone seems to love about Holos. Every time I watch him I am not impressed. Would be shocked if he made the team (as some have predicted). Chouinard I have not seen enough of to really say one way or another. Cohen seems like a great PP guy but beyond that very questionable. O'Neal is a career AHL guy from what I have seen.

Still we have some promising defensemen in our system and I look forward to seeing how they all turn out.

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05-15-2010, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Holos reminds me a little of Hjalmarsson in Chicago. Nothing special, but a solid player. I also think he has a good shot at making the club next season. He has been playing against men for the last 2 years, whereas Shattenkirk will have a bigger adjustment to make.

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05-16-2010, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Holos reminds me a little of Hjalmarsson in Chicago. Nothing special, but a solid player. I also think he has a good shot at making the club next season. He has been playing against men for the last 2 years, whereas Shattenkirk will have a bigger adjustment to make.
By the same token, though, I wonder if switching from the international ice to the North American ice gives Shattenkirk a big advantage.

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05-16-2010, 11:26 AM
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By the same token, though, I wonder if switching from the international ice to the North American ice gives Shattenkirk a big advantage.
In fact of all the times I have seen Holos, he impressed me the most on NA ice (in the Olympics) so I would say no.

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05-16-2010, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Starrlinx View Post
Cohen seems like a great PP guy but beyond that very questionable.
I am curious where the questions arise from? Other than his offensive output, more goals and points than Shattenkirk this past season at BU, I haven't seen any recent info on him. In his favor he is bigger than any of our Junior/College prospects.

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05-16-2010, 12:36 PM
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In fact of all the times I have seen Holos, he impressed me the most on NA ice (in the Olympics) so I would say no.
The entire Norwegian national team looks better on NA ice.

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05-16-2010, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by niwotsblessing View Post
I am curious where the questions arise from? Other than his offensive output, more goals and points than Shattenkirk this past season at BU, I haven't seen any recent info on him. In his favor he is bigger than any of our Junior/College prospects.
I think the biggest knock on him his the 'defense' part of his job. He isn't as well rounded as Shattenkirk in that department and that is why Shattenkirk is viewed as the better prospect despite Cohen's higher offensive output.

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05-16-2010, 04:09 PM
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I think the biggest knock on him his the 'defense' part of his job. He isn't as well rounded as Shattenkirk in that department and that is why Shattenkirk is viewed as the better prospect despite Cohen's higher offensive output.
Last year Shatty was pretty brutal defensively too but was "Mr. Everything" for BU so he probably tried to play beyond himself. I understand that the unanimous opinion is that Shatty is all around better than Cohen. I have seen Cohen outplay him several times though (I posted such a couple of times last year) so I wouldn't be shocked if Cohen outplayed Shatty. I don't think it is a high probability outcome but I do think it is possible. Overall we really need to see what Cpt. Kirk does next year with more reasonably expectations and good coaching.

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05-16-2010, 05:12 PM
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Shaquille O'Neal?

You never can tell with prospects. I'd like to think Elliot has the best chance of putting up high scoring numbers for his position, while Shattenkirk will be a little more solid in his own end, but who knows? For all we know Joel Chouinard or Tyson Barrie will end up being the best of the bunch, or Wes O'Neill will end up as the next Hal Gill.

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05-17-2010, 09:50 PM
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I started out thinking Colby Cohen will be able to challenge for a spot, and Shats is going to be in the AHL to start the season. They could switch spots throughout. I honestly believe it's between Cohen and Stefan Elliott. Elliott posted a +42, and was a pretty good defensive force in the WHL while being offensive. He's someone that I wish I could watch more games of, and I believe he's going to be able to make it to the top squad this upcoming season. Though I also understand the other ones are going to do what they can to challenge as well, and we'll have a lot of different chances at having a good top rookie. I'm hoping they'll be a little more like Kyle Quincey at the start of the season, and am looking forward to seeing Ryan Wilson too. I'd love seeing Wilson line up with Elliott.

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05-17-2010, 11:01 PM
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I have a feeling that Shattenkirk won't be much more than a decent second pairing defenseman. That said, I think that Elliott is going to be the best of the bunch; I have a feeling he could turn into the next Duncan Keith. They're about the same size and are both smooth skating, offensively gifted two-way defensemen. They both were drafted around the same spot, as well (Keith was 54th overall, Elliott 49th).

Elliott's potential probably tops out a bit lower than Keith's (particularly offensively), but if he can be 90-95% of the player that Keith is (and I think he has a shot at it), he'd be an amazing help for the Avs.

Edit: I'm fully aware that this idea is totally crazy. I just have a weird feeling that Elliott is going to be really good.


Last edited by songsinsleep: 05-18-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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05-18-2010, 04:21 PM
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I started out thinking Colby Cohen will be able to challenge for a spot, and Shats is going to be in the AHL to start the season. They could switch spots throughout. I honestly believe it's between Cohen and Stefan Elliott. Elliott posted a +42, and was a pretty good defensive force in the WHL while being offensive. He's someone that I wish I could watch more games of, and I believe he's going to be able to make it to the top squad this upcoming season. Though I also understand the other ones are going to do what they can to challenge as well, and we'll have a lot of different chances at having a good top rookie. I'm hoping they'll be a little more like Kyle Quincey at the start of the season, and am looking forward to seeing Ryan Wilson too. I'd love seeing Wilson line up with Elliott.
I think Elliott needs at least 1 more year in the WHL. Needs to get a bit stronger. But I agree his potential is quite high IMO. He reminds me a bit more of Mike Green the way he plays than Keith though.

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05-19-2010, 10:12 PM
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Bender
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Originally Posted by songsinsleep View Post
I have a feeling that Shattenkirk won't be much more than a decent second pairing defenseman. That said, I think that Elliott is going to be the best of the bunch; I have a feeling he could turn into the next Duncan Keith. They're about the same size and are both smooth skating, offensively gifted two-way defensemen. They both were drafted around the same spot, as well (Keith was 54th overall, Elliott 49th).

Elliott's potential probably tops out a bit lower than Keith's (particularly offensively), but if he can be 90-95% of the player that Keith is (and I think he has a shot at it), he'd be an amazing help for the Avs.

Edit: I'm fully aware that this idea is totally crazy. I just have a weird feeling that Elliott is going to be really good.
Shattenkirk is going to be excellent...like a Dan Boyle type of player. Of this, I have absolutely no doubt.

I'm on the fence about Elliott and I honestly haven't seen enough of him to say he'll be great or not for the time being.

I've never been a fan of Tyson Barrie and I'm still not. You guys put WAAAAAAAAYYYYY too much stock in how well players are playing in their respective junior leagues. Over the years, there have simply been too many players that put up huge points in junior never to have their game translate at the NHL level. For me that's the kind of player Barrie will end up being but hopefully I'm wrong on this one.

(PS - Tomas Slovak had a pretty nice season for those same Kelowna Rockets once upon a time)

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05-19-2010, 10:16 PM
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You guys put WAAAAAAAAYYYYY too much stock in how well players are playing in their respective junior leagues.
This. I have read that people compare Tyson Barrie to Columbus's Kris Russell, who scored 32 goals his final season in the WHL. Well, three NHL seasons later his highest point total is 22. That's not to say Barrie won't be an NHL caliber defenseman, which I think he will, but I'd be surprised if he outscored Shattenkirk and Elliott (assuming they aren't busts, of course).

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05-20-2010, 01:48 AM
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Totally agree....

Barrie = Cumiskey without the speed

Shattenkirk = I'm expecting a Liles type player...I'm in constant debate with myself whether he will be better or worse than JML. But I believe he'll end up somewhere in that neighborhood of talent..worse/better by a little.

Elliot - For some reason I think he can be better than Shattenkirk too...Just a hunch.


My worries about all these defensemen are that I have my doubts the Avs management really feels they need a shutdown d guy. They've been plucking these same types of players for years, and to go out and sign a UFA after you've concentrated on D in the draft would seem to be admitting mistakes. But if they do continue on the same path, hopefully McIlrath is the guy this year.

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05-20-2010, 02:29 AM
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Shattenkirk is going to be excellent...like a Dan Boyle type of player. Of this, I have absolutely no doubt.
I've heard a couple different people say that, hopefully he can reach his potential.

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05-20-2010, 03:50 AM
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Totally agree....

Barrie = Cumiskey without the speed

Shattenkirk = I'm expecting a Liles type player...I'm in constant debate with myself whether he will be better or worse than JML. But I believe he'll end up somewhere in that neighborhood of talent..worse/better by a little.

Elliot - For some reason I think he can be better than Shattenkirk too...Just a hunch.


My worries about all these defensemen are that I have my doubts the Avs management really feels they need a shutdown d guy. They've been plucking these same types of players for years, and to go out and sign a UFA after you've concentrated on D in the draft would seem to be admitting mistakes. But if they do continue on the same path, hopefully McIlrath is the guy this year.
I think the reason for the amount of offensive D, goes back to the constant BPA approach, and a little of the idea that they need to build from the backend like Nashville, with a wealth of good D prospects.

Unfortunately, with the extreme lack of trades, and how much you have to overpay for any sort of defenseman besides 5th or 6th guys as a UFA, I think at some point they need to draft a couple guys based on need, when there isn't a big clearcut difference in the BPA factor. Hence the reason for a guy like McIlrath/Petrovic/Leach in the 2nd over a forward, or offensive D.

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05-20-2010, 04:39 PM
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Like I said before, I have great hopes in Cohen, he's gonna be a huge defenseman in the NHL. Just pair him with Shatty and he'll too will have great success in the NHL.

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05-20-2010, 05:07 PM
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Mark my words Elliot is fun to watch. He is a great hockey player. He is so smart. I dont think he will make the jump this year and I think he will be a guy that would benifit from a year or two in the minors. About the only knock I have on this guy is his size. He takes a beating. The scouting report on this guy for every team must be hit him when ever you can, cause he gets hit alot. When the Blades brought in tough guy Randy McNaught it opened up the ice for Elliot and he literally took over games offensively. Lorne Molleken was quoted this year saying the "Blades go as Stefan Elliot goes". When he is on his game they are tough to beat. As gifted as this guy is offensively he is great Defensively as well. He has a very active stick and doesn't get beat one on one ever. In the corners he wont out muscle you but uses his stick to free pucks and 9 times out of 10 he comes away with it.

When he gets stronger and a little bit faster he will be a great NHL defensmen.


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05-20-2010, 09:24 PM
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chewey
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Mark my words Elliot is fun to watch. He is a great hockey player. He is so smart. I dont think he will make the jump this year and I think he will be a guy that would benifit from a year or two in the minors. About the only knock I have on this guy is his size. He takes a beating. The scouting report on this guy for every team must be hit him when ever you can, cause he gets hit alot. When the Blades brought in tough guy Randy McNaught it opened up the ice for Elliot and he literally took over games offensively. Lorne Molleken was quoted this year saying the "Blades go as Stefan Elliot goes". When he is on his game they are tough to beat. As gifted as this guy is offensively he is great Defensively as well. He has a very active stick and doesn't get beat one on one ever. In the corners he wont out muscle you but uses his stick to free pucks and 9 times out of 10 he comes away with it.

When he gets stronger and a little bit faster he will be a great NHL defensmen.

Fixed. Next time just input the code rNw1e9t7Nxk (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rNw1e9t7Nxk)
instead of the whole link.

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05-20-2010, 10:40 PM
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Mark my words Elliot is fun to watch. He is a great hockey player. He is so smart. I dont think he will make the jump this year and I think he will be a guy that would benifit from a year or two in the minors. About the only knock I have on this guy is his size. He takes a beating. The scouting report on this guy for every team must be hit him when ever you can, cause he gets hit alot.
At least he's not short. He should be able to put a decent amount of muscle onto a lanky 6'1" frame.

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05-21-2010, 01:35 AM
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we're all such size queens. I will admit it. I need an intervention.

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