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Is John Tortorella a good coach?

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Old
05-12-2010, 02:29 AM
  #1
Vancouver_2010
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Is John Tortorella a good coach?

Without watching much Rangers game this season, i wonder is he a good coach? The last time i notice him coaching anywhere is from Tampa Bay, and he seems to be very good at motivating his players to win the cup.

Anyways, if Rangers fire him, i wish the canucks will sign him ASAP.

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05-12-2010, 02:49 AM
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Kel Varnsen
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He's a great coach. Great mix of knowing when a guy needs a kick in the ass and when he needs to go out and defend his guys from criticism. He likes to keep most things in house so he often doesn't address certain concerns the media has, which I know bothers some fans but I feel like what ever is best for the team is what I want to see done.

His system was such a drastic change from Renney's that you definitely saw some growing pains this year. Having two rookie's on D and Redden didn't help let the O go attack as much as he would have liked, plus we were short of high end talent up top but he did adjust the system somewhat.

He probably won us a few games with those early timeouts, and players have even said that although he has a rep for being a guy who only yells, he's often had a calming influence on them and allowed them to go play their games.

I can't imagine he gets fired after only one complete season, we're not that poorly run...

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05-12-2010, 04:14 AM
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I think there is two sides to this story?

Like a coach wants X and has the ability Y to get his team to deliver X.

When it comes to Y, Tortorellas ability to get his team to perform the way he wants -- I think that his record speaks for itself. He can get it done.

But when it comes to X? Is the way Tortorella wants his team to play something that works in the game today?

There you can have great questionmarks. The game have changed. Compare how teams played in the ANA-NJD SCF with how Det-Pit played last year; its different sports.

Today you need to be able to carry the play in order to be successful, or to be able to carry the play more then the team that you face. Its too hard to defend, its too easy to take penaltys.

How do you carry the play? Like its obvious today that there are two options;
1. You have a Crosby and Malkin/or something of that kind,
2. You build your team game with the purpose of taking the play to the other team.

Tortorella have done neither. We focus on tempo first and foremost -- the results though is that we play entire periods/games without being able to get a hold of the puck. 2-3 shots per period. 15 shots for a full game. And it happeneds all the time too.

I don't know how often you see a Torts player alone fight his way over the redline, dump the puck in, to give his linemates and himself time to change lines.

Thats a small play, and it can't be explained or motivated by the above. Small stuff like that, and Torts don't seem to be aware of them and he especially don't seem to be aware of the solutions. Look at Chicago for example. At Boston. In a situation like that they turn back and keep the puck within the team. We do the complete opposite. We are stuck in the pre-lockout game. Then it didn't matter if you lost the puck, most goals were scored after misstakes anyway. You gave the puck away and waited for misstakes. So it didn't matter if you lost the puck. The key was to move it forward all the time and don't make misstakes yourself. Is Torts style part of a bigger offensive picture too? Sure, but he still teaches many old bad habits.

Many coaches have done the same misstakes after the lockout. Very few are still in the league, and almost all have failed very hard. Crawford and Hartley are other examples...

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05-12-2010, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
He's a great coach. Great mix of knowing when a guy needs a kick in the ass and when he needs to go out and defend his guys from criticism. He likes to keep most things in house so he often doesn't address certain concerns the media has, which I know bothers some fans but I feel like what ever is best for the team is what I want to see done.

His system was such a drastic change from Renney's that you definitely saw some growing pains this year. Having two rookie's on D and Redden didn't help let the O go attack as much as he would have liked, plus we were short of high end talent up top but he did adjust the system somewhat.

He probably won us a few games with those early timeouts, and players have even said that although he has a rep for being a guy who only yells, he's often had a calming influence on them and allowed them to go play their games.

I can't imagine he gets fired after only one complete season, we're not that poorly run...
more or less agree.

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05-12-2010, 05:43 AM
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I don't love all of his shenanigans with the press but I think he did a pretty decent job this year. Not his fault it came down to a shootout.

He actually gave Del Zotto (PP QB on 1st unit) and Anisimov (regular PK shift, some PP time) a lot of responsibility this year which was cool to see, and Dubi, Cally, and especially Staal did fine under him.

He needs to change too a little. For example I'm a fan of rolling four lines and only shortening the bench if your down by a goal with 15 minutes to go in the 3rd. He started rolling four lines and I hope he stays with it.

I'm all for giving him one more year at least.

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05-12-2010, 06:08 AM
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Torts vs Renney part 30, here we go!

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05-12-2010, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
Without watching much Rangers game this season, i wonder is he a good coach? The last time i notice him coaching anywhere is from Tampa Bay, and he seems to be very good at motivating his players to win the cup.

Anyways, if Rangers fire him, i wish the canucks will sign him ASAP.

Better coach than Luongo is a goaltender. I feel for ya today.... really I do

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05-12-2010, 07:09 AM
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I don't think he is. I think his blame everyone else (99% of the time) and becnh players who didn't deserve it tactics turn off the players and make them not work hard for him. I also suspect he's just impossible to get along with in general. Hard ass tactics only work when you know how to use them fairly and properly, IMO.

I hope he proves me wrong with a Cup, though.

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05-12-2010, 07:58 AM
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I think opinion is always going to be divided on Torts' style. I happen to like the guy (though he is sometimes a little over the top both with the press and with the players). The thing I like, though, is that he doesn't hold a grudge.
When MDZ was beaking at the ref and Torts benched him for the remainder of the period it was all forgotten by the beginning of the next period -- MDZ played the first shift. He scratched Avery and the next game Avery responded with his best game in ages. I think it is a style that works with some players and not with others -- he never benched Redden because I suspect he doesn't think it would spark anything in him.

Here's a bit from the NYTimes blog -- an interview with EC after he got chewed out by Torts in front of the team before the last game against the Leafs. EC scored twice in the first period that game. I think it gives some interesting insight into what it is like to be coached by Torts.

The coach mentioned that he had challenged you.

Yup, I guess you could say that. Torts challenged a few guys, and I was one of them. He wasnít necessarily thrilled with the way I was playing the last couple games and probably a little frustrated that I was pushing a little too hard. So yeah, I wanted to come out and show him that I can be the guy to play with Gabby and to help lead the team. And we needed the win, so I just wanted to play a lot better.

For what a goal 21 seconds into the game does for all the guys, what did it do for you?

I find that if I contribute early on, it just sort of like, sparks you. The adrenaline starts flowing. It felt like the first couple periods the puck was just following me around the ice. You just have an extra jump in your step.

You came close to a hat trick in the second.

Itís eluded me a few times in my career. Wouldíve been nice. But we needed the 2 points as a team Ė Iím not worrying about the hat trick. It was good to come back after getting spanked by Buffalo [5-2 on Tuesday night in Buffalo] with a solid effort in a game that we had to win.

....

You said you werenít necessarily thrilled, or Torts wasnít necessarily thrilled?

Both of us. How do I put it? In the Florida game [a 4-1 road victory on Saturday] I had lots of chances. Hitting peopleís shin pads. I couldnít get a shot through, so I got frustrated. And just like anyone I wear my emotions on my sleeve. You can usually tell when Iím ticked off at something, and itís usually myself.

So I just needed a kick in the butt. I talked to Schoeny on the ice in practice the day before the Buffalo game. And Torts challenged a few guys. And I was one of the guys. He looked me straight in the eye and said, ĎYou have to be better.í Itís not always fun, but itís happened to me a few times. Iíve had some tough coaches. Youíve just got to suck it up.

And if I want to be in this situation where Iím playing with Gabby on the first line, I have to play well. Everyone goes through stretches in the season where they might go a game or two or three where they struggle and things donít go their way, and you bounce back.


If it didnít feel so good to be challenged, it must have felt good to answer.

Itís an odd feeling. You get kind of an embarrassing feeling: Heís yelling at you in front of everyone, kind of challenging your character or your manhood or whatever you want to call it. Heís in your face. Itís kind of like heís saying he wants you to stick it to him.

Heís telling you all this because he wants you to be better. I think you have to kind of see through what heís saying and say, ďHeís giving me a chance by putting me in this position for some reason, and I donít think he hates me.Ē So you have to look at it that heís trying to get me better. Heís trying to spark me.

If I donít respond it looks really bad. It looks really bad on my part, and it looks really bad to the rest of the guys in the room, saying, ĎCoach challenged Christensen and he didnít do anything tonight again,í you know. So you try to win respect from the guys in the locker room and the coaching staff, if you can get challenged and then respond.


Vinny Prospal went through the same thing with Tortorella in Tampa a few years back.

Yeah, Iíve heard stories of that.

There are videos of that.

Yeah, we all put it up in the locker room when I first got here. Thatís the thing. Vinnyís a veteran guy whoís played really well for the team. Ranger fans really like him this year, and heís a consummate pro. Heís a perfect example of what a professional hockey player should be.

We all go through tough times in a season, and you can see in that video, if you can stick it to someone itís a good feeling.

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05-12-2010, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by genericnyrusername View Post
He's a great coach. Great mix of knowing when a guy needs a kick in the ass and when he needs to go out and defend his guys from criticism. He likes to keep most things in house so he often doesn't address certain concerns the media has, which I know bothers some fans but I feel like what ever is best for the team is what I want to see done.

His system was such a drastic change from Renney's that you definitely saw some growing pains this year. Having two rookie's on D and Redden didn't help let the O go attack as much as he would have liked, plus we were short of high end talent up top but he did adjust the system somewhat.

He probably won us a few games with those early timeouts, and players have even said that although he has a rep for being a guy who only yells, he's often had a calming influence on them and allowed them to go play their games.

I can't imagine he gets fired after only one complete season, we're not that poorly run...
True.

It's difficult to find a coach that gets himself into trouble wherever he goes. That gets tossed out of a playoff game, throws things at fans, and finishes out of the playoffs after he receives the gift called Gaborik.

When he was first here, his supporters told us all to just wait until he has the team for a full season. Now, it's just wait until he's been here longer. That's the logic that has kept Sather employed for so many depressing seasons.

Yup, he's a great one. We are blessed to have him.

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05-12-2010, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by DrAStuart View Post
I think opinion is always going to be divided on Torts' style. I happen to like the guy (though he is sometimes a little over the top both with the press and with the players). The thing I like, though, is that he doesn't hold a grudge.
When MDZ was beaking at the ref and Torts benched him for the remainder of the period it was all forgotten by the beginning of the next period -- MDZ played the first shift. He scratched Avery and the next game Avery responded with his best game in ages. I think it is a style that works with some players and not with others -- he never benched Redden because I suspect he doesn't think it would spark anything in him.

Here's a bit from the NYTimes blog -- an interview with EC after he got chewed out by Torts in front of the team before the last game against the Leafs. EC scored twice in the first period that game. I think it gives some interesting insight into what it is like to be coached by Torts.

The coach mentioned that he had challenged you.

Yup, I guess you could say that. Torts challenged a few guys, and I was one of them. He wasnít necessarily thrilled with the way I was playing the last couple games and probably a little frustrated that I was pushing a little too hard. So yeah, I wanted to come out and show him that I can be the guy to play with Gabby and to help lead the team. And we needed the win, so I just wanted to play a lot better.

For what a goal 21 seconds into the game does for all the guys, what did it do for you?

I find that if I contribute early on, it just sort of like, sparks you. The adrenaline starts flowing. It felt like the first couple periods the puck was just following me around the ice. You just have an extra jump in your step.

You came close to a hat trick in the second.

Itís eluded me a few times in my career. Wouldíve been nice. But we needed the 2 points as a team Ė Iím not worrying about the hat trick. It was good to come back after getting spanked by Buffalo [5-2 on Tuesday night in Buffalo] with a solid effort in a game that we had to win.

....

You said you werenít necessarily thrilled, or Torts wasnít necessarily thrilled?

Both of us. How do I put it? In the Florida game [a 4-1 road victory on Saturday] I had lots of chances. Hitting peopleís shin pads. I couldnít get a shot through, so I got frustrated. And just like anyone I wear my emotions on my sleeve. You can usually tell when Iím ticked off at something, and itís usually myself.

So I just needed a kick in the butt. I talked to Schoeny on the ice in practice the day before the Buffalo game. And Torts challenged a few guys. And I was one of the guys. He looked me straight in the eye and said, ĎYou have to be better.í Itís not always fun, but itís happened to me a few times. Iíve had some tough coaches. Youíve just got to suck it up.

And if I want to be in this situation where Iím playing with Gabby on the first line, I have to play well. Everyone goes through stretches in the season where they might go a game or two or three where they struggle and things donít go their way, and you bounce back.


If it didnít feel so good to be challenged, it must have felt good to answer.

Itís an odd feeling. You get kind of an embarrassing feeling: Heís yelling at you in front of everyone, kind of challenging your character or your manhood or whatever you want to call it. Heís in your face. Itís kind of like heís saying he wants you to stick it to him.

Heís telling you all this because he wants you to be better. I think you have to kind of see through what heís saying and say, ďHeís giving me a chance by putting me in this position for some reason, and I donít think he hates me.Ē So you have to look at it that heís trying to get me better. Heís trying to spark me.

If I donít respond it looks really bad. It looks really bad on my part, and it looks really bad to the rest of the guys in the room, saying, ĎCoach challenged Christensen and he didnít do anything tonight again,í you know. So you try to win respect from the guys in the locker room and the coaching staff, if you can get challenged and then respond.


Vinny Prospal went through the same thing with Tortorella in Tampa a few years back.

Yeah, Iíve heard stories of that.

There are videos of that.

Yeah, we all put it up in the locker room when I first got here. Thatís the thing. Vinnyís a veteran guy whoís played really well for the team. Ranger fans really like him this year, and heís a consummate pro. Heís a perfect example of what a professional hockey player should be.

We all go through tough times in a season, and you can see in that video, if you can stick it to someone itís a good feeling.
Putting credence in what a player says about his coach on the record is a waste of time. If you were expecting a player to criticize his coach you are out of touch with how things work. The proof would be the percentage of positive vs. negative comments in these types of situations.

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05-12-2010, 08:23 AM
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John Tortorella is a walking contradiction, and Ill leave it at that

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05-12-2010, 08:39 AM
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Maybe. He looked like a great coach--at times--in Tampa. Will he be a good coach here? I don't know. I wasn't impressed in season one.

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05-12-2010, 09:12 AM
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Calder Cup Championship- check

Stanley Cup Championship- check

First Year of Coaching in the books with a team filled with crap- check

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05-12-2010, 09:26 AM
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My only problem with Torts is that he takes things too far.. instead of benching a player for a couple shifts here and there, it will be for the rest of the game, even if said player messes up in the 1st period.. that leaves the rest of the team winded and pissed.

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05-12-2010, 09:35 AM
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There are 29 other teams in the league that have great mixtures of players and coaches. Not all of them will win the cup or even make it to the playoffs, look at anahiems roster or Wash's 1ts rd exit.

There have been many great teams with lousy coaches and many great coaches with lousy teams. Its all about timing and putting it all together year in year out, look how Mont is handeling Pitt right now.

TB went from a joke with a young marquee player that needed a kick in the butt and a grizzled vet given that was given that players "C" to a team that won the cup and was out right nasty to play against within 3 years of Trot's hiring in TB and implimentation of "his" system.

I personally, pass or fail, after years of ineptitude and players not knowing their roles while every FA that comes in is "The next savior", want to see what this team is in 5-6 years after going through a organiztional change of philosiphy through Tort's molding. The guy wasnt brough in to win it this year. He was brought in along with Drury, good, bad, or indiferent, to change the "Playboy" atmosphere and give this team some direction which most of us that have been watching for over 10 years now know this team has been lacking since the aquisition of Mess then Keenan.

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05-12-2010, 09:45 AM
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Calder Cup Championship- check

Stanley Cup Championship- check

First Year of Coaching in the books with a team filled with crap- check
glen sather.

multiple stanley goblets - check

this means nothing today- check

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05-12-2010, 09:54 AM
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Putting credence in what a player says about his coach on the record is a waste of time. If you were expecting a player to criticize his coach you are out of touch with how things work. The proof would be the percentage of positive vs. negative comments in these types of situations.
Ummmm...you might want to check out the Prospal video that EC mentions (easily found on Youtube)...Not only does Vinny criticize his coach, but he came back to work for him in New York...That to my mind says something about Torts' style and what players think about him.
As for not putting credence in what a player says, there's a reason why both EC and Prospal were given an award by the media that covers the Rangers -- it is because they are the guys the media go to when they want an "honest" assessment of things that isn't a bunch of Bull Durham sports cliches.
Maybe EC didn't criticize his coach because he thought the coach was right to do what he did...isn't that a possibility?
Or is an honest assessment only one where the player says something negative and critical of the coach?

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05-12-2010, 10:29 AM
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glen sather.

multiple stanley goblets - check

this means nothing today- check
haha touche, my friend...touche.

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05-12-2010, 11:01 AM
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Was he successful in having his players buy into his vision? No

Were the players willing to go the extra mile and sacrifice for him? No

Did his vision fit the skill set of the roster? No

Did his team make the playoffs? No

Seems obvious, doesn't it?

That being said, he deserves another year to implement his ideas and mold the team to his style and vision.

Do I think he will be successful? No

Is it his fault entirely? No. Certainly much of the blame must go to the players and the GM.

He was brought in to bring passion, offense, and accountability to the team. Did he? No

Did he learn from his experience in TB and internalize the reasons for his firing there? No

Do I think he is a good coach? No way.

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05-12-2010, 11:08 AM
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Was he successful in having his players buy into his vision? Yes

Were the players willing to go the extra mile and sacrifice for him? Yes

Did his vision fit the skill set of the roster? He adjusted it

Did his team make the playoffs? No

Seems obvious, doesn't it? What?

That being said, he deserves another year to implement his ideas and mold the team to his style and vision.

He was brought in to bring passion, offense, and accountability to the team. Did he? Yes
Bold were the fixes. How you can think he didn't bring any accountability is beyond me. He made Wade Redden a healthy scratch and Kotalik. That's 10 mil in salary he had the guts to scratch. Kotalik was a guy that Sather just went out and brought in and Torts still had enough confidence in himself to tell the GM you ****ed up. In doing that he told his boss you ****ed up to the tune of 10 million dollars.

Not too many coaches would do that.

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05-12-2010, 11:16 AM
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He is a good motivator, and good for accountability, which is what Ranger fans wanted when we fired Renney, who was an excellent technical coach.

He does make some decisions. Sure. But I think he'll do okay next year.

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05-12-2010, 11:24 AM
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glen sather.

multiple stanley goblets - check

this means nothing today- check
meh... not really a good comparison. Sather's Cups came over 20 years ago and he had the greatest player the game has ever seen (for all but 1 of them) and easily one of the most stacked rosters in NHL history. Tortorella took a Tampa Bay team who had never won their division to 2 straight division titles and a Cup. Tampa had some talent too, but I wouldn't dismiss what Torts did there as a coach because Sather won a bunch of Cups in the 80's.

Torts does have some question marks as a coach, but winning a Cup is nothing to scoff at.

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05-12-2010, 11:32 AM
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05-12-2010, 11:33 AM
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We can never know for sure, but I still feel he cost us the series against Washington with his wanna-be tough guy antics (benching Avery over a penalty). Avery came out and set up a goal 3 minutes into his game back.

****ing idiot. Bench one of our only guys who was playing hard.

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