wow... that's the way Cory. cockblock a previous signed deal and start poisoning the relationship with one of the best things to happen to Newark in a long time.
He was on Real Time with Bill Maher and did not impress me with his grandstanding there either.
Booker has done a great job in Newark but he is in the wrong here.
How about the 700 jobs that were created and charged income tax, and the sales tax, etc.
Not to mention the business that are popping up and having to pay taxes and brining people into the City?
__________________
"Why I'll be a Devil forever [...] two words. Trust and respect." - Mr. Pat Burns
"I learned not to question Cowbell's willingness to ban." - Brian Boyle
meh, I expected more. I don't think you really understand the degree to which the city was screwed. Sharpe James didn't end up in prison because he was clean.
again, think about it, we're talking about 3 years and this is what is due after the various contract cop-outs and charges and such?
"Nobody has given away what Newark has given away," Booker said. "This deal made (Vanderbeek) probably the most successful owner in America."
The Booker Argument:
Newark politicians were dumb when they signed a legally binding contract. So we're going to argue a technicality to try to get out of the legally binding contract to get more money. A key central thesis to our legal argument will be, "they got a good deal". Well, once we figure out how to translate that into Latin of course.
Newark politicians were dumb when they signed a legally binding contract. So we're going to argue a technicality to try to get out of the legally binding contract to get more money. A key central thesis to our legal argument will be, "they got a good deal". Well, once we figure out how to translate that into Latin of course.
Well, that's the Devils arguement too. "We screwed you and we're going to find technicalities to screw you further, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it!"
there's no real "good" side in this. it's just typical Jersey political scumitude. I would imagine that JVB is a ***** to deal with, considering he's a Lehman guy. so, while Newark is *still* corrupt as **** all, I sympathize with them a bit because they got ripped off by Sharpe James and JVB, and now to futher complicate it, JVB is trying to nickel and dime them on whatever table scraps they get.
that's taking the Devils' fan hat off. I could take the Newark hat off too and say "oh well, you didn't actually spend anything on this, so this phony 'ownership' you have of the building, well you deserve it."
all they have to show for this is basically some bar revenue and the taxes they had to go get enforced by the state. they get paid dick on the building.
Well, that's the Devils arguement too. "We screwed you and we're going to find technicalities to screw you further, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it!"
there's no real "good" side in this. it's just typical Jersey political scumitude.
Sorry. Unlike with most transactions that occur in Newark, nobody put a gun up to these politicians heads and forced them to enter into a business contract with a professional hockey franchise.
So far, I'm hearing, "this deal isnt good for us, we shouldn't have signed it"...... well, that's great, but you DID sign it. Caveat Emptor.
I'm so friggin' sick and tired of personal responsibility and consequences of actions being removed from our society. You. Signed. The. Deal. You live with the repercussions. Stupidity isnt a defense.
Sorry. Unlike with most transactions that occur in Newark, nobody put a gun up to these politicians heads and forced them to enter into a business contract with a professional hockey franchise.
So far, I'm hearing, "this deal isnt good for us, we shouldn't have signed it"...... well, that's great, but you DID sign it. Caveat Emptor.
I'm so friggin' sick and tired of personal responsibility and consequences of actions being removed from our society. You. Signed. The. Deal. You live with the repercussions. Stupidity isnt a defense.
they didn't sign it. it was railroaded through by a crook and his cronies w/ help from McGreevey. all of these people are long gone. well, you can still see Sharpe James at a game if you're lucky enough. remember, when Booker went to office, he was going to kill the deal, but his legal counsol said it was airtight (and IIRC, the counsol was not friendly towards the project in some shape or form), and he's mostly been quiet and resigned since. he was against it before he was for it.
like I said, them *****ing is funny to a point, because they didn't buy their share with real money, but who knows what that deal contains. like who is responsible for debt service and such. right now, I'm guessing the Devils are 100%, but what if the Devils are sold? they'd be much more attractive without the debt. so, maybe the arena and management would absorb the debt and Newark would find themselves with a share of it, etc.
I've got a feeling this particular agreement is vicious. that the Devils can nickle and dime like this is a pretty good sign.
A key central thesis to our legal argument will be, "they got a good deal". Well, once we figure out how to translate that into Latin of course.
Invictus Sharpitus Jamesus.
There's a decent amount of information, informal and legal, that's missing here. Obviously. The stuff lawyers get paid to keep secret. Misinformed opinions, though, make up the bulk of HF anyway. For example, in the same article, despite rabble-rousing here:
"But after a meeting Monday night, participants were more optimistic. The Devils proposed ideas for increasing parking revenue and Booker and Kinard agreed to present a unified front, avoiding any further miscommunication." (Of course, all that means is more $$$ from us fans! )
I agree with Booker that this is a dick deal for Newark. We all know it is. Whether he's legally right or not, he's got the moral impetus to get on the high horse here. The man pours his blood and sweat into Newark, trying to raise Newark out of the ashes. It's his campaign and his aura: do right for Newark and its people. If every politician were half as honest and dedicated as Booker is to Newark, America would be a much more lovely place. The man is one of my heroes.
Ol' Sharpy Jay did this deal the way you'd expect him to, and Booker is trying to rectify it. Can't blame him. And yes, in a poor-ass city like Newark, $2M is a solid chunk of change. Think about what that could do for public schools. Think about upgrading a police force that could use the help.
I'm with Booker on this one, though I understand laws and contracts and yawn snore etc.
Well, that's the Devils arguement too. "We screwed you and we're going to find technicalities to screw you further, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it!"
there's no real "good" side in this. it's just typical Jersey political scumitude. I would imagine that JVB is a ***** to deal with, considering he's a Lehman guy. so, while Newark is *still* corrupt as **** all, I sympathize with them a bit because they got ripped off by Sharpe James and JVB, and now to futher complicate it, JVB is trying to nickel and dime them on whatever table scraps they get.
that's taking the Devils' fan hat off. I could take the Newark hat off too and say "oh well, you didn't actually spend anything on this, so this phony 'ownership' you have of the building, well you deserve it."
all they have to show for this is basically some bar revenue and the taxes they had to go get enforced by the state. they get paid dick on the building.
So the party that is taking all the risk shouldn't be allowed to get a good deal in return for bringing economic and social wellness to the area?
If Booker is so concerned maybe he should be looking for new deals to compensate for the "lost" $2 million in parking (that wouldn't exist without the deal to begin with). I guess it's safe to go after the other party once they are all moved in and conducting business knowing they can't pull out of the deal.
Pick your battles - this deal on the whole is far more beneficial to Newark than $2M in parking revenues. Don't crap in the punchbowl after the dance has started.
The reason it is a bad deal for Newark is what they could have done to simulate business with 200 million. A better use with the money was to invest in bringing business to Newark. That would have brought far more than any arena or hockey team.
The reason it is a bad deal for Newark is what they could have done to simulate business with 200 million. A better use with the money was to invest in bringing business to Newark. That would have brought far more than any arena or hockey team.
What are you talking about? What exactly do you know?
The reason it is a bad deal for Newark is what they could have done to simulate business with 200 million. A better use with the money was to invest in bringing business to Newark. That would have brought far more than any arena or hockey team.
Complete nonsense. Then I guess no sports arenas should exist anywhere.
The Devils took a chance moving into a city with a negative social stigma around it, they turned the Downtown into a great pre and post game experience, changed the opinion of the potential of Newark for hundreds of thousands of people. That in my opinion is priceless.
The Devils are as financially healthy as ever, and Newark is now alive after 5PM. Establishing an identity for Newark is more important than anything a couple more brokerage offices could have been.
Newark and Booker should kiss the feet of Vanderbeek and James. End of story.
Because lawyer offices would bring in hundreds of thousands of patrons, take in millions of dollars, offer jobs for locals and open bars and resturants. I am blown away by the previous post. Prudential Center is the reason people now seek out Newark, rather than escape it.
It is not a coincidence that the Devils went from bleeding money to the 10th most financially successful team in hockey once they moved to Newark.
All this situation brings to light is the corruption and "gimme gimme gimme" nature of the politicians in this state.
Booker is a good guy, but he really needs to remember who brings people into his city. The New Jersey Devils.
they didn't sign it. it was railroaded through by a crook and his cronies w/ help from McGreevey. all of these people are long gone.
It doesnt matter that they werent there. It happened. Stating that the predecessors that came before you were idiots (not to mention corrupt) may be absolutey true, but it does nothing to invalidate a legal contract.
The Devils did absolutely nothing wrong here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeItVeryMuch
Complete nonsense. Then I guess no sports arenas should exist anywhere. The Devils are as financially healthy as ever, and Newark is now alive after 5PM. Establishing an identity for Newark is more important than anything a couple more brokerage offices could have been. Newark and Booker should kiss the feet of Vanderbeek and James. End of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj225
What are you talking about?
Ehhh..... he's actually right. Sure, the arena is nice and all, but in just pure economic terms, if you're going to spend $210 Million (a monsterous sum) to rebuild a failed city, you can do a helluva lot better, fund more critical, and more important things than dumping it into a hockey house.
Of course, that logic depends on politicians actually being motivated to "help" people and spend the $210 Million on Newark, instead of advancing their careers and giving their friends $155,000 jobs with sick benefits. And the odds of that realistically happening are probably pretty low. So, at the end of the day, it may be a wash, but people on here vis-a-vis their love and emotional attachment to the Devils tend to overstate the actual "good" The Rock has done for Newark. Has it been a positive influence? Sure. Has a lot changed? Not really. Not yet anyway.
BG do you really think the city of Newark would have used the 200m to fund a project that would improve the area as much as the arena did?
Knowing our state it would have been spent on a fleet of yachts.
If we go on this argument, pro sports shouldn't exist. I am sure Washington DC could have spent the money they spent on the VC on something "better" I seriously doubt it would have fixed up that area as well as it did.
BG do you really think the city of Newark would have used the 200m to fund a project that would improve the area as much as the arena did?
Do I really think? I dont know.
Like I said, there's a very good chance it could have been wasted like most government spending. I'm just saying that he's right in that spending $210 Million on a hockey arena is certainly not the best thing you could do for people in a crumbling 3rd-world city like Newark.
People have looked at the economic good these large public buildings do in the center of horrible urban areas, and the long-term results really arent that impressive.
Oh yea there are so many people coming into Newark tonight. The restaurants are overflowing I better make reservations. Relax nothing can be done its great arena but the Devils are the winners not Newark.
Oh yea there are so many people coming into Newark tonight. The restaurants are overflowing I better make reservations. Relax nothing can be done its great arena but the Devils are the winners not Newark.
You came in here with a blanket statement and don't expect people to jump on it?
Explain yourself and maybe you'd have better responses.
The reason it is a bad deal for Newark is what they could have done to simulate business with 200 million. A better use with the money was to invest in bringing business to Newark. That would have brought far more than any arena or hockey team.
The arena is quite possibly the only/best thing going for it at the moment and gentrification takes a decade considering how much the city and the process lollygagged.
They missed out on that widget factory in your econ 101 class. Theory is nice and all, but reality matters most.
Which businesses? What's stopping them from doing it now? They can still offer someone property tax abatement as well as whatever cities can do within their limits.
The money was rent from the airport and does generate income for the city and helps in a civic manner as well as get outsiders to come to your city. They just got the rights to the Nets and a waiver from the Nets and the league to release territorial rights if they move to Brooklyn.
Besides, major corporations relocating need State Government intervention. For real tax breaks, Trenton needs to get involved and break out the kneepads for a real attractive package to bring them on board.
Actually, the arena is something any most or all major cities has. The cities fault is that they didn't embrace the project from the get go. The city shot itself in the foot.
Oh yea there are so many people coming into Newark tonight. The restaurants are overflowing I better make reservations. Relax nothing can be done its great arena but the Devils are the winners not Newark.
Funny - 2 years between visits to the Rock and staying/eating downtown next to the performing arts center and I notice quite a big difference for the better in just that short time.
I'm sure the cleaner, pedestrian heavy, new storefront bustling downtown area was well on its way prior to the Prudential Center coming along...
The first time I feared I made a huge mistake and that I wouldn't be caught out after dark walking the area more than 2 blocks from the arena - the 2nd time I had no worries at all. I'm sure everyone wants the old Newark and the vast amount of parking revenue that would have been had back to spite the Devils.
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