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SJ vs CHI: Who is more screwed if they don't win the cup this year?

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Old
05-18-2010, 11:26 AM
  #26
Dalton
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Neither IMHO. Both team's management have shown patience. San Jose's has shown they will work to improve the supporting cast for their stars before they throw them under a bus.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:14 PM
  #27
TOML
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San Jose. Only because of their history.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
San Jose. Only because of their history.
?????????

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KyleJRM View Post
They were disappointed when the Blackhawks got Hossa. They were disappointed when they were able to keep all their RFAs last offseason. They were disappointed when the team didn't lose 2 or 3 of Toews, Keith and Kane. Then those poeple were disappointed when they didn't lose any of them.

They'll keep being disappointed. Haters gonna hate.
Lighten up. It's just Leafs fans trying to feel good about themselves.
They would post about what a great season they had but ... Oops, that's not gonna happen.
Since the season sucked they might want to talk about who they are going to draft but ... Oops, that's not gonna happen either.

So what does a hockey fan do while wonder how 2 very likely bottom 5 finishes will net them no great draft picks. Clearly the only thing to do is raise your spirits by pretending another organization is as ****ed up as yours is.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:31 PM
  #30
Killswitch7187
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Yeah, having Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, and Seabrook sounds like it's bad for business. They'll never win with that .

Just like the Sharks are in big-big trouble with Thornton, Pavelski, Setoguchi, Heatley, Boyle, and Nabokov . Oh boy, only if this team had more stars they might be able to keep winning.

Both teams must surely be screwed to have those guys in their line-ups.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:34 PM
  #31
Reign Nateo
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Hawks are in more trouble IMO. They'll still be good, but there are some major moves to make. Guys like Versteeg, Byfuglien, Sharp, Campbell should not be available, but will have to be. They'll really take a hit losing Sharp in particular in my opinion. Take Sharp, Byfuglien and Campbell out of that line-up and there is a lot less depth to worry about. Hjarmarsson gets poached and they're looking at some MAJOR holes to fill.

They're wide open to being poached for their RFAs. Would be shocked if Ladd or Hjarmarsson don't get an offer from another team.

Huet and Sopel are not tradeable. Not as salary dumps anyway. If one things has been proven over the last year or so, its that moving salary for nothing is very, very hard to do. Oilers have been trying to move Souray for about a year. No takers, and he's a much more effective player than either of those guys. Countless examples all over the league. It's not going to be as simple as "dumping Sopel" and "burying Huet in the minors." Ehrhoff is different, he was a QUALITY player with a REASONABLE contract.

Will be a very interesting off-season for the Hawks. Fans can shrug it off as no big deal, but it is. That team will have to be vastly different next season. The Sharks will need to replace Nabakov, but there is a lot of goaltending available right now and will be more this summer. Guys like Couture and the emerging Pavelski, combined with a better year from Setoguchi should off-set the loss of Marleau. I don't see the Sharks' losses having as big of an impact as the Hawks' will.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:36 PM
  #32
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Screwed? Neither...why would they be screwed? They both have great players and will continue to be good teams for years to come.

Top six forwards and top four defense on both teams, the rest will just be traded away or waived like Ehrhoff was for junk or picks.

Byfuglien Toews Kane
Sharp Bolland Hossa

Keith Seabrook
Campbell Hjalmarsson

Marleau Thornton Heatley
Clowe Pavelski Setoguchi

Vlasic Boyle
Murray Huskins


Last edited by Falconator: 05-18-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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Old
05-18-2010, 12:40 PM
  #33
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CHICAGO

They have 14 people signed, and are already at the cap.
According to capgeek they are 800 000 over the cap.

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=11

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:45 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killswitch7187 View Post
Yeah, having Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith, and Seabrook sounds like it's bad for business. They'll never win with that .

Just like the Sharks are in big-big trouble with Thornton, Pavelski, Setoguchi, Heatley, Boyle, and Nabokov . Oh boy, only if this team had more stars they might be able to keep winning.

Both teams must surely be screwed to have those guys in their line-ups.
This..and they'll be getting assets for the players traded. I believe the Hawks will get good picks/prospects in return for Buff, Versteeg, Sharp or whoever. Having those awesome bases and adding a stocked system won't hurt either team.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:48 PM
  #35
Happyhary9
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Originally Posted by The Gibson Cup View Post
Point is if he goes to arbitration he's going to get big money. You know as well as I do that the Hawks wouldn't be anywhere close where they are today with Huet in net! Hudler was awarded 2.8m and who was more important to his teams success?
First off you don't know crap about arbitration if you keep saying if Hudler got this Niemi will get more. Arbitration uses similar players to determine their market value. Hudler got 2.8 being compared to other young forwards that scored around 57 points.

No way Niemi gets 3.5 in arbitration. Thats more then UFA Rinne signed for and he has started two full seasons with a Calder nomination and and the same stats over a whole season. Start thinking RFA goalie contracts like Rask (1.25)and Quick (1.8). Thats how arbitration works they find the guys in the same situation such as RFA, position, and numbers. No way in hell he gets even more the 2.5 mil in arbitration. You need to put down that DRW pipe you are smoking and try to look at the Hawks with out such a hatred bias.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:50 PM
  #36
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Neither window will be closed, but the Sharks would be hurt more by a late exit. They are more aged than the Blackhawks and the pieces they could and likely will lose are more vital.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyhary9 View Post
You need to put down that DRW pipe you are smoking and try to look at the Hawks with out such a hatred bias.
The only DRW mentions on this thread come from BLACKHAWKS fans and you guys seem to be the ones spewing the hate.

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Old
05-18-2010, 12:58 PM
  #38
matt trick
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Hawks are going to lose more pieces, but they can expect more from their core. They are younger than San Jose, and therefore will only get better. San Jose will likely lose only one or two pieces, but one of them could be Marleau, which IMO, would be borderline disastrous.

I expect both teams will win their divisions next year, or be second (LA and Detroit) and have a 4-5 series against each other. I have no doubt Doug Wilson will put together yet another elite regular season team, and there is no way a Chicago team which will still field 3 elite forwards, top 5 defense, and solid secondary offensive talents will not be excellent.

Whether they will be the two consensus cup contenders is debatable, but they will both be among the top teams in the league.

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Old
05-18-2010, 01:00 PM
  #39
Spazmatic Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
Lighten up. It's just Leafs fans trying to feel good about themselves.
They would post about what a great season they had but ... Oops, that's not gonna happen.
Since the season sucked they might want to talk about who they are going to draft but ... Oops, that's not gonna happen either.

So what does a hockey fan do while wonder how 2 very likely bottom 5 finishes will net them no great draft picks. Clearly the only thing to do is raise your spirits by pretending another organization is as ****ed up as yours is.
Yeah. Thats it.

Or maybe its a Leaf fan interested in a discussion about cap situations in Chicago and San Jose using compare and contrast. Instead he gets bashed because of the team he roots for.

Go figure.

I think both teams have a bit of soul searching to do, but in the end their cap situations are maneagable and overplayed. Chicago will not lose a significant piece of their core for peanuts. San Jose might see one or both of Marleau or Nabokov simply walk (more likely Marleau than Nabby IMO). In the end, both teams will remain teams to be reckoned with.

Should be interesting. This is an ideal cup winning time for both teams.

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Old
05-18-2010, 01:11 PM
  #40
Happyhary9
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Originally Posted by DandZFan View Post
The only DRW mentions on this thread come from BLACKHAWKS fans and you guys seem to be the ones spewing the hate.
Sorry it has nothing to really do with most of the wings fans or the DRW its more about this poster Gibson/yooper. Him and Sandman are both Wings fans that post more on Hawks stuff then Hawks fans and they always just try and make it into how bad the Hawks are screwed and ect. I think most of us Hawks fans are just sick of those two and then just say stuff back at them just to be like them.

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Old
05-18-2010, 01:14 PM
  #41
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What if he wins the Conn Smythe?
Then I likely wouldn't care if Darren Pang was in Hawks net next year! ,,, I would be too happy

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05-18-2010, 01:39 PM
  #42
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According to the numbers:
Chicago 0 cap 6 players to sign
San Jose 20million cap 8 players to sign

A lot of maneuvering for Chicago but according to Hawks fans they're
not in trouble cap wise.

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Old
05-18-2010, 01:53 PM
  #43
matt trick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanJonathan View Post
According to the numbers:
Chicago 0 cap 6 players to sign
San Jose 20million cap 8 players to sign

A lot of maneuvering for Chicago but according to Hawks fans they're
not in trouble cap wise.
Both teams are in cap trouble (Sharks have key players to sign with 20 million), but that doesn't mean they are going to go from elite to ****. Losing a Versteeg+Byfuglien+Sopel+Huet or Clowe/Nabokov+Murray (or Marleau) certainly hurts but they will still be very good teams.

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05-18-2010, 01:56 PM
  #44
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Let's take this in an interesting, and hopefully new direction:

Which team gets hit harder by a cup WIN?

Who is going to have been so central to the win that their pay increase pushes them off the team?

Do the sharks have an easier time re-signing Patty because of his statline? Is Pavs now gonna eat 5.5m?

What happens to Neimi if he wins the Smythe?

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Old
05-18-2010, 02:03 PM
  #45
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It's hard to say how much the Hawks are in trouble. Yeah they appear to be in deep with the cap issues, but they also have among the most desirable tradable assets that will be available this off-season. There's not going to be a shortage of teams looking for guys like Buff, Sharp or Vertseeg. Possibly Bolland too with his great defensive play these playoffs.

If the Hawks manage to trade a few of these guys for picks, it plays perfectly in to their hands. Replenish the system, so they can keep flowing in cheaper talent to surround the core guys (Kane, Toews, Keith, Hossa, Seabrook and maybe Hammer).

Huet and Campbell, yeah those are problems and we will just have to wait and see how they sort out.

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Old
05-18-2010, 02:06 PM
  #46
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What if elite teams didn't spend money?...History will be made.

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Old
05-18-2010, 02:42 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StanJonathan View Post
According to the numbers:
Chicago 0 cap 6 players to sign
San Jose 20million cap 8 players to sign

A lot of maneuvering for Chicago but according to Hawks fans they're
not in trouble cap wise.
As noted in one of the other (there are now what 5 or 6 Hawk /Cap threads per week here right/) Comparing the last year the old man was alive to this one Hawks income has risen by roughly 75 million dollars. And if they make the finals add 3 million per home date on top of that. Rocky knows winning hockey not only puts fans in seats but drives ad revenue. Kicking back 8 million to eat the contracts of Huet and Sopel is not going to be a problem. And Sopel will stay in the organization.
Remove the Huet and Sopel contracts and Chicago has about 8 million (just under) to spend on 8 players. Trade only 1 of Versteeg or Byfuglien (replace with Beach) and Chicago has about 9.5 million to spend on those 8 players.
After Niemi and Hjalmarsson all the rest of the needs are bottom feeders.

It is funny people predicted death to the Hawks yet a few simply moves (and losing Ladd and 1 other forward) and the band plays on. ... And ownership still makes what 65 or 70 million more than 3 short years ago.

On a non hockey note. Home sales are finally going up as are home starts. Hiring is increasing and the markets are stable and rising.
The cap will begin an upward tick for the future.

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Old
05-18-2010, 03:43 PM
  #48
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1. even when these Teams play against in the POs, this thread is classy and I like the way both Fans talk with each other

2. I think the Sharks should resign Marleau. More important than Nabby. There are some good goalies available and the sharks should get one. Use this money to give Pavelski a raise and sign a goalie cheap

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Old
05-18-2010, 04:10 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
1. even when these Teams play against in the POs, this thread is classy and I like the way both Fans talk with each other

2. I think the Sharks should resign Marleau. More important than Nabby. There are some good goalies available and the sharks should get one. Use this money to give Pavelski a raise and sign a goalie cheap
Agree

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Old
05-18-2010, 04:33 PM
  #50
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They're both going to still be top-contenders.

Both teams have highly thought of prospects that can step in next year.

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