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Old
05-20-2010, 07:34 PM
  #101
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What if none of them are ready? Can you still address the #2 center spot if you overpay Kovalchuk?

Oh, I forgot Schenn is going to step in next season and take the NHL by storm.
What about Richardson as the #2 if Stoll is moved? Could work for a couple of seasons. Could also open the possibility of getting Frolov to sign at a lower cap hit to play with Kovalchuk:

Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Frolov
Smyth-Richardson-Brown
Modin/Parse-Handzus-Simmonds
Clune-Lewis-Westgarth

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Old
05-20-2010, 11:33 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
So, sign Kovalchuk and promote Muzzin, Hickey or Voynov as the #4 (which ever is ready).
I am good with this as my #1 solution

- we can try out the kids, if they don't work we will have some money at the trade deadline to fill a hole at a reduced price.

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05-20-2010, 11:42 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
I am good with this as my #1 solution

- we can try out the kids, if they don't work we will have some money at the trade deadline to fill a hole at a reduced price.
That and trades can be made a month or two into the season, or hell, right away, if after camp it looks like none of the dmen are ready.

There is nothing so exciting as far as defensemen in the UFA market, besides the ones we can't really afford. Do we really need to get in a bidding war for Eaton? Or Sutton? Seidenberg? Yeah, they are good, but they are kind of a dime a dozen type players.

If DL is going to pass on Kovalchuk and go for a super d bolster, then Volchenkov, Hamuis, Michalek, Kubina and Martin are really the only ones. Even out of that group, I think Volchenkov is the only "special" player. Maybe Z. Michalek.

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05-21-2010, 01:08 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Kovy-Kopi-Simmonds
Smyth-Sharp-Brown
Richie-Zeus-Moller
Thornton-Lewis-Westy

I think this would solve our scoring sniper and 1B center problem. And the kicker is, we'll still be under the cap as long as we basically go with the same defense from last year (without Jones) and add one of Muzzin/Voynov/Hickey.
My question for you is how do you think Blackhawks will do taking on more cap by getting both Stoll and Williams? They want to cut down on there space not gain.. Williams+Stoll is about what 6-7 Mill? I definitely know that Sharp is nothing near that..

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05-21-2010, 01:13 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What about Richardson as the #2 if Stoll is moved? Could work for a couple of seasons. Could also open the possibility of getting Frolov to sign at a lower cap hit to play with Kovalchuk:

Kovalchuk-Kopitar-Frolov
Smyth-Richardson-Brown
Modin/Parse-Handzus-Simmonds
Clune-Lewis-Westgarth
That is one solid core IMO. Though I would liek to fir Moller somewhere in there. When we get rid of both Williams and Stoll who are we getting back? Another defenseman? I would also consider switching Frolov with Smyth. With Kovy's rockets, there will be plenty of rebounds as well.. I am actually thinking of just moving Stoll for a decent defenseman, and just keep Williams(if affordable) and put him on the 2nd line and bring back Frolov with Zeus.

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05-21-2010, 01:55 AM
  #106
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That second line is pretty crappy. The difference between having a Richardson, and a second line that likely falls apart, and Kopitar, is the exact argument for the 1a/b center, first.

Prince Vince a King? I would prefer that...What says you K17?

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05-21-2010, 01:57 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
That second line is pretty crappy.
Smyth-Richie-Brown?

Just because of Richie?

Richie and Brown had some great chemistry together. Richies speed really seemed to up Browns' game. I would actually be content with that as a second line for a year or two.

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05-21-2010, 02:00 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Smyth-Richie-Brown?

Just because of Richie?

Richie and Brown had some great chemistry together. Richies speed really seemed to up Browns' game. I would actually be content with that as a second line for a year or two.
But neither Brown nor Smyth are going to turn into snipers, so without someone who can dish, the overall package is not going to be good.


Last edited by Legionnaire: 05-21-2010 at 02:26 AM.
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05-21-2010, 02:55 AM
  #109
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Both Ritchie and Stoll are faux second line centers. Yeah, we can make do with them, but they arent going to cut it in the playoffs. As For Smyth, I really hope he can do something next playoffs other than recreate his Caspar performance this year.

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05-21-2010, 03:05 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Both Ritchie and Stoll are faux second line centers. Yeah, we can make do with them, but they arent going to cut it in the playoffs. As For Smyth, I really hope he can do something next playoffs other than recreate his Caspar performance this year.
Something I think not playing against the defenders out to stop Kopi will go a long way towards preventing.

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05-21-2010, 03:08 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
But neither Brown nor Smyth are going to turn into snipers, so without someone who can dish, the overall package is not going to be good.
It won't be dominating for sure, but I think between that and a strong 3rd line we will be OK.

I don't want a 2nd line that is almost as good as the 1st. I was a 1st that is as good as any line in the game, and a 2nd and 3rd line that can chip in ~50 goals each.

Smyth-Richie-Brown - I see atleast 50 goals for that line.
Modin-Zus-Simmonds - 40-50 goals easy.

Kovy-Kopi-whatever - 100 goals.

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05-21-2010, 03:54 AM
  #112
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And when that line gets shut down we'll be relying on one those guys'. Think about it for a second it is not about bragging rights, "The Kings have the best 1st line in hockey", it's about winning the Cup.

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05-21-2010, 08:22 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
And when that line gets shut down we'll be relying on one those guys'. Think about it for a second it is not about bragging rights, "The Kings have the best 1st line in hockey", it's about winning the Cup.
You remember that Modin, Handzus and Simmonds had 8 goals in 6 playoff games? That is very solid secondary scoring. I don't care if you want to call that the 3rd line or 2nd line, it doesn't really matter with Murray as coach anyways.

The playoff failure had more to due with Quick's poor games than anything else.

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05-21-2010, 09:38 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
That second line is pretty crappy. The difference between having a Richardson, and a second line that likely falls apart, and Kopitar, is the exact argument for the 1a/b center, first.

Prince Vince a King? I would prefer that...What says you K17?
I know he is available, but I hate the number of years left on his deal and the way he has played lately. His contract basically guarantees that the team that has him is stuck with him for 7 more seasons at a $7.7M cap hit. It would be a major gamble on Lombardi's part, and I don't see Lombardi going after Lecavalier for that reason.

If he can't deal with Chicago to get some of their better younger forward talent, I would prefer an out of nowhere deal where he looks at players like Richards, Roy, Bergeron, etc.

Richards wouldn't be a bad option as a 1B as a UFA next summer or in a trade now if you could get him to sign a cap friendly deal when the one year remaining on his deal is up. I doubt Dallas wants to deal him to the Kings though.

Some on the main board seem to think Derek Roy is semi-available. I don't know why he would be, but he would be a great fit on the Kings, but would cost us a lot in a trade.

Bergeron probably isn't going anywhere just like the unattainable Jordan Staal.

I am wondering what people might think about looking at Nathan Horton as a top sixer. He may have worn out his welcome in Florida. With a new GM are they ready to clean house a little? Is Horton the kind of player Lombardi might take a flyer on now that he has the room heading in the right direction? Could the Kings established leadership base get a guy like Horton to "fly right" and give it everything he has?


Last edited by KINGS17: 05-21-2010 at 11:24 AM.
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Old
05-21-2010, 09:51 AM
  #115
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UFA Signings
Kovalchuk 12yr / 6.8M (9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 5M 2.5M 1.35M .750M)
Frolov 1yr / 4M (Hometown Discount)
Adrian Aucoin 2.5M

RFA Signings
Richardson 1.2M
Parse .605M

Trade / Dump
Williams
Ersberg
Harrold


FORWARDS
Ilya Kovalchuck ($6.800m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Wayne Simmonds ($0.822m)
Ryan Smyth ($6.250m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Alexander Frolov ($4.000m) /Michal Handzus ($4.000m) / Brad Richardson ($1.200m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.900m) /Brayden Schenn ($3.140m) / Scott Parse ($0.605m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($3.475m) / Jack Johnson ($1.425m
Rob Scuderi ($3.400m) / Jake Muzzin ($0.900m)
Adrian Aucoin ($2.500m) / Matt Greene ($2.950m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) / Jonathan Bernier ($0.843m)

BUYOUT
McCauly ($0.667m)

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $57,700,000
PAYROLL $60,393,334
BONUSES $5,375,000
CAP SPACE $1,566,666


Last edited by johnjm22: 05-21-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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Old
05-21-2010, 01:02 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I know he is available, but I hate the number of years left on his deal and the way he has played lately. His contract basically guarantees that the team that has him is stuck with him for 7 more seasons at a $7.7M cap hit. It would be a major gamble on Lombardi's part, and I don't see Lombardi going after Lecavalier for that reason.

If he can't deal with Chicago to get some of their better younger forward talent, I would prefer an out of nowhere deal where he looks at players like Richards, Roy, Bergeron, etc.

Richards wouldn't be a bad option as a 1B as a UFA next summer or in a trade now if you could get him to sign a cap friendly deal when the one year remaining on his deal is up. I doubt Dallas wants to deal him to the Kings though.

Some on the main board seem to think Derek Roy is semi-available. I don't know why he would be, but he would be a great fit on the Kings, but would cost us a lot in a trade.

Bergeron probably isn't going anywhere just like the unattainable Jordan Staal.

I am wondering what people might think about looking at Nathan Horton as a top sixer. He may have worn out his welcome in Florida. With a new GM are they ready to clean house a little? Is Horton the kind of player Lombardi might take a flyer on now that he has the room heading in the right direction? Could the Kings established leadership base get a guy like Horton to "fly right" and give it everything he has?

Pretty much my take too. I would love to add him, and let Schenn develop, but I'm thinking 1. Agree too long. 2. That wrist injury had more of an effect on his play than first thought. 3. Lingering questions about leadership and attitude - which wouldn't be all that much better than Kovalchuk.

Richards, Roy, Bergeron I all see as being virtually untouchable. Horton, no thanks. Maybe it's just been that the Cats have just been a mess since the Bure trade, but either way, his heart isn't in the game a lot of nights. Also, he's not really a center.

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Old
05-21-2010, 01:22 PM
  #117
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I've been thinking something like this.......

Kovalchuk($8.000M)-Kopitar($6.800M)-Williams($3.500M)
Smyth($6.250M)-Stoll($3.600M)-Brown($3.175M)
Richardson(1.300)-Handzus($4.000)-Simmonds($821,667)
Clifford($900K)-Lewis($900K)-Clune($750K)
Ex: Westgarth($525K)

Doughty($3.475M)-Scuderi($3.400M)
JJ($1.425M)-Greene($2.950M)
Wiske($616,667)-Hickey($1.317M)
Ex: Harrold($583,333)

Quick($1.800)
Bernier($843,333)

Salary Cap: $57.7M
Cap Space: $3,626,666

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Old
05-21-2010, 01:25 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
UFA Signings
Kovalchuk 12yr / 6.8M (9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 9M 5M 2.5M 1.35M .750M)
Frolov 1yr / 4M (Hometown Discount)
Adrian Aucoin 2.5M

RFA Signings
Richardson 1.2M
Parse .605M

Trade / Dump
Williams
Ersberg
Harrold


FORWARDS
Ilya Kovalchuck ($6.800m) / Anze Kopitar ($6.800m) / Wayne Simmonds ($0.822m)
Ryan Smyth ($6.250m) / Jarret Stoll ($3.600m) / Dustin Brown ($3.175m)
Alexander Frolov ($4.000m) /Michal Handzus ($4.000m) / Brad Richardson ($1.200m)
Kyle Clifford ($0.900m) /Brayden Schenn ($3.140m) / Scott Parse ($0.605m)
Kevin Westgarth ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN
Drew Doughty ($3.475m) / Jack Johnson ($1.425m
Rob Scuderi ($3.400m) / Jake Muzzin ($0.900m)
Adrian Aucoin ($2.500m) / Matt Greene ($2.950m)
Davis Drewiske ($0.617m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonathan Quick ($1.800m) / Jonathan Bernier ($0.843m)

BUYOUT
McCauly ($0.667m)

ROSTER SIZE 22
SALARY CAP $57,700,000
PAYROLL $60,393,334
BONUSES $5,375,000
CAP SPACE $1,566,666
Pretty good except for Simmonds. Everyone is placing him on the first line. He just isn't there yet and it is questionable if he will ever be. Though, he may have good skills to compliment a player like Kovalchuk and could keep up with him and that could really boost his stats, a bit a trial would be required to check for chemistry; however, I think very few people peg him as being able to maintain a position that high for very long. If all the deals went down in your scenario, Frolov would be switched to right wing on the first line, Simmonds put back on Zeus' line, and Richardson would be moved to the left side.

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05-21-2010, 01:44 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Pretty good except for Simmonds. Everyone is placing him on the first line. He just isn't there yet and it is questionable if he will ever be. Though, he may have good skills to compliment a player like Kovalchuk and could keep up with him and that could really boost his stats, a bit a trial would be required to check for chemistry; however, I think very few people peg him as being able to maintain a position that high for very long. If all the deals went down in your scenario, Frolov would be switched to right wing on the first line, Simmonds put back on Zeus' line, and Richardson would be moved to the left side.
Most likely, yes.

But I like the idea of Simmonds with Kovalchuk and Kopitar for a few stints. It spreads the talent around, adds some grit, and gives the top line a blue collar attitude which it needs sometimes. Would be interesting...

Also, Schenn would see time on the 2nd PK and 2nd PP, while also getting an occasional chance in the top 6 or top 9. I think it'd be great for is development, as he'd be seeing a variety of game situations, and there wouldn't necessarily be any pressure on him.

Kovalchuk - Kopitar - Frolov
Smyth - Stoll - Brown
Richardson - Handzus - Simmonds
Clifford - Schenn - Parse
Westgarth

Doughty - Johnson
Scuderi - Muzzin
Aucoin - Greene
Drewiske

Quick
Bernier

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Old
05-21-2010, 01:54 PM
  #120
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Frolov is not a RW. Simmonds would be better IMO. He'd add more of a gritty/protective element that would be needed to help protect the two.


It's still that Smyth Stoll Brown line that kills me. I just don't see that being very successful at all.

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05-21-2010, 02:10 PM
  #121
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When Kovalchuk and Frolov play together in the Worlds, Frolov plays RW.

I believe Stoll and Smyth played together in Edmonton with success. Smyth has underrated passing and play making skills that I think would go good with the shoot first mentality of Brown and Stoll. They also posses decent speed which would help make up for Smyth's deficiency in that area.

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05-21-2010, 02:14 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
Pretty much my take too. I would love to add him, and let Schenn develop, but I'm thinking 1. Agree too long. 2. That wrist injury had more of an effect on his play than first thought. 3. Lingering questions about leadership and attitude - which wouldn't be all that much better than Kovalchuk.

Richards, Roy, Bergeron I all see as being virtually untouchable. Horton, no thanks. Maybe it's just been that the Cats have just been a mess since the Bure trade, but either way, his heart isn't in the game a lot of nights. Also, he's not really a center.
Yeah, I see it pretty much the same way, and I didn't really see Horton as a center. I was thinking of Horton as more of a big body winger that could maybe take over for Smyth eventually if he got his head screwed on right. BIG IF though I have to admit.

So without a deal we are going to have to hope Schenn is an absolute stud, or continue with Stoll/Handzus as the #2, which isn't the end of the world.

Best options I see for a #2 center are still a trade with Chicago for Sharp, or signing Marleau to a cap friendly deal after he turns UFA. Then you hope Schenn grows into that role and you move Marleau to Kopitar's LW when Smyth leaves.

If the Kings did sign Marleau, I would hope Frolov returns. I would really like to see what kind of numbers he could put up feeding a center that can shoot the puck.

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05-21-2010, 02:26 PM
  #123
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See now that is a good point. I've always wanted to see the same. Kopitar is a shooter, but he's also a puck possession guy. Marleau, on ther other hand, is more of a slasher, straight ahead guy, who is less comfortable with the puck on his stick and likes to shoot.

Sharp, for sure, but he's really more comfortable as a wing.

Either way, adding Marleau and or Sharp would really help our PK/SH threat and likely overall team D. Although I see Marleau more as an asset there due to his speed.

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05-21-2010, 02:27 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
From what I read on the trade board (don't know if this is true or not), somebody said Sharp prefers to and primarily plays on the wing.
Well, if that's true then how about Plekanec? He probably could be had for around 4.5 mil.

Kovy-Kopi-Simmonds
Smyth-Plekanec-Brown
Richie-Zeus-Moller
Clune/Thornton-Lewis-Westy

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05-21-2010, 02:30 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by King Doughty8 View Post
My question for you is how do you think Blackhawks will do taking on more cap by getting both Stoll and Williams? They want to cut down on there space not gain.. Williams+Stoll is about what 6-7 Mill? I definitely know that Sharp is nothing near that..
You're assuming that I would trade JW and Stoll to the hawx. I'm thinking trading prospects as they need to clear cap. JW and Stoll would be traded in other deals for prospects/picks.

Key to our cap is IF we can unload JW and Stoll and keep Schenn down in the CHL for another season, that's 10 mil in additional cap space

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