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Rangers' Top 20 Prospects POLL (#13)

View Poll Results: Who is the Rangers' #13 Prospect?
Alexandre Giroux 8 11.59%
Nate Guenin 0 0%
Dwight Helminen 10 14.49%
Marcus Jonasen 9 13.04%
Rick Kozak 0 0%
Bryce Lampman 5 7.25%
Greg Moore 0 0%
Dominic Moore 29 42.03%
Ken Roche 1 1.45%
Jake Taylor 1 1.45%
Mike Walsh 0 0%
Chad Wiseman 5 7.25%
Other (Specify) 1 1.45%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-13-2004, 07:29 PM
  #1
bmoak
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Rangers' Top 20 Prospects POLL (#13)

POLL IS CLOSED! PLEASE MOVE TO POLL #14!

Liffiton comes away with the number 12 spot. The poll expands in a big way now. I don't plan any adding anyone until after round 15 or 16.

Without further ado,

he Rangers' propsect rankings are as follows:

1) Fedor Tjutin
2) Henrik Lundqvist
3) Josef Balej
4) Hugh Jessiman
5) Thomas Pock
6) Petr Prucha
7) Maxim Kondratiev
8) Jarkko Immonen
9) Ivan Baranka
10) Garth Murray
11) Nigel Dawes
12) David Liffiton

Who is the Rangers' #13 Prospect?


Last edited by bmoak: 05-14-2004 at 06:13 PM.
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Old
05-13-2004, 07:41 PM
  #2
bmoak
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In case you hadn't noticed, the new additions to the poll are Greg Moore, Ken Roche, Rick Kozak, and Nate Geunin. Hollweg and Falardeau are close behind and no one else got more than a vote or two.

I'll add either 3 guys after round 15 or 4 guys after round 16 and that will be it.

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05-13-2004, 08:49 PM
  #3
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Lampman looks like a solid 3rd pairing guy, I think he's dismissed too early because he's not a top pairing guy.

not much of a Moore fan... strikes me as being not talented enough for the top 2 lines, or tough enough for the 3rd or 4th line.

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05-13-2004, 08:55 PM
  #4
Brian Boyle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
Lampman looks like a solid 3rd pairing guy, I think he's dismissed too early because he's not a top pairing guy.

not much of a Moore fan... strikes me as being not talented enough for the top 2 lines, or tough enough for the 3rd or 4th line.
I really like Lampman, he would be my pick for #14

I don't think Moore is too soft for the bottom 2 lines, I could see him being a Stephan Yelle type player

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05-13-2004, 08:58 PM
  #5
Son of Steinbrenner
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i like jonasen. i think out of all the guys left he has the best upside. it was a close call though because lampman could turn out to be a top 4 defenseman. i also like dominic moore but i'm just not sure what to make of him. jonasen has the chance to be a very good power forward, perhaps its wishful thinking.

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05-13-2004, 08:59 PM
  #6
in the hall
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close between helminen, roche, lampman, went with helminen

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05-13-2004, 09:00 PM
  #7
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall
close between helminen, roche, lampman, went with helminen
helminen is not a bad choice. he could be mike york without the injuries.

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05-13-2004, 09:08 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
helminen is not a bad choice. he could be mike york without the injuries.
injuries?

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05-13-2004, 09:29 PM
  #9
Fletch
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The more we do this...

the more I realize how flawed the organizational depth is. So many ???, and so many future 3/4 liners/third defense pairings. Sather better make a splash in the upcoming draft to turn this list upside down.

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05-13-2004, 10:02 PM
  #10
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Fan
injuries?
yes mike york is injured the past two seasons. plus york is perhaps the worst second half player in all of hockey.

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05-13-2004, 10:03 PM
  #11
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To me, this is between Dom Moore and Helminen. I'm very excited about Helminen. He could be our version of Maltby, but I went with Moore because he's NHL ready and has some offensive upside. He could turn out to be a pretty good complementary two-way forward in the mold of Mike Knuble, while Helminen's upside is probably that of a defensive and PK specialist, and a very good one at that.

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05-13-2004, 10:11 PM
  #12
Blueshirt13
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Depth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
the more I realize how flawed the organizational depth is. So many ???, and so many future 3/4 liners/third defense pairings. Sather better make a splash in the upcoming draft to turn this list upside down.
I wouldn't say completely flawed. Compare the organizational depth now compared to last year after the draft. We might have a lot of 3rd and 4th liners and 5th-6th defensemen but we did add and develop individuals that could be higher...

Added:
- Balej: 2nd liner
- Pock: 3rd or 4th defensemen possibly (hard to tell with so little time but positive pickup)
- Kondratiev: 4th or 5th defensemen
- Immonen: 2nd line center or nothing else. Going on reports of others
- Giroux: Utility player (not quite sure of a full roll he would get)
- Umberger: 1st or 2nd line center (yeah I know, bash me for listing him but if we do by some small chance sign him, he is a legit top 6 fwd. if not, we have naother 2nd rounder to use for a trade)

Developed:
- Lundqvist: #1 goalie? getting more hype now but think his game improved over last year
- Tjutin: 2nd or 3rd defesemen (stepped in earlier than anyone would have guessed)
- Lampman: 4th or 5th defensemen (has good eyes for the ice. can read plays well)
- Prucha: 2nd liner, PK, Sniper (once again, WC performance surprising people)
- Baranka: 3rd or 4th defensemen (showing more upside than when drafted)
- Dawes: he is surprising a lot of people. Won't put potential until camp or AHL play


Not to mention that from this years draft, the #6 pick as well as our second first rounder (more than likely will move up) will automatically add depth. I think overall as far as depth and even 1st and 2nd tier talent, we are in much better shape than we were last year.

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05-13-2004, 10:24 PM
  #13
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
the more I realize how flawed the organizational depth is. So many ???, and so many future 3/4 liners/third defense pairings. Sather better make a splash in the upcoming draft to turn this list upside down.
Funny, I have felt the exact opposite..I think Sather has finally built up alot of depth and with Tyutin, Jessiman, Lundqvist and Balej has some good high end talent with darkhorses like Immopnen and Prucha possibly joining..And this coming draft will only add to it....

Oh yeah, went with Moore..

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05-13-2004, 10:27 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
yes mike york is injured the past two seasons. plus york is perhaps the worst second half player in all of hockey.
York's not exactly an ironman but this season he broke his finger (which is more of a freak injury then anything else) and the season before that he played 71 games...How is that being injured the past two seasons?

And I think we already went over this. Yes, York is a smallish player so he might tend to wear down physically. The worst second half player in all of hockey?? :lol com'on now, that's pretty absurd. Anybody complained while he was here? Don't think so. Anybody complaining about him in Edmonton? Nope.

Let's stop trying to make him sound like a bad player because jackass traded him for the defenseman that can't play defense.

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05-13-2004, 11:20 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo Fan
York's not exactly an ironman but this season he broke his finger (which is more of a freak injury then anything else) and the season before that he played 71 games...How is that being injured the past two seasons?

And I think we already went over this. Yes, York is a smallish player so he might tend to wear down physically. The worst second half player in all of hockey?? :lol com'on now, that's pretty absurd. Anybody complained while he was here? Don't think so. Anybody complaining about him in Edmonton? Nope.

Let's stop trying to make him sound like a bad player because jackass traded him for the defenseman that can't play defense.
Bad player? no.

But SOS has many points in his belief there. Just because he played 71 games doesn't mean he wasnt hurt. He played through some stuff but that's the problem. In one form or the other, he's always hurt and frankly the second half of the season is the more important half.

Some guys float through half a season but they come alive when the playoffs are around. I like York but you better have some depth if you're gonna carry him as a top 6 forward because EVERY season he's been a pro his second halves are filled with injuries and his play as a result is heavily effected.

We love York because he hustles and he was a ray glimpse of hope in an otherwise dreadful 7 years. But we have to be honest here about is NHL abilities. He is a nice 20 goal, 40-50 point player but one whose size is a REAL problem and he can't stay healthy long enough, IMO to really help a team where it counts the most which is in the playoffs.

Not a huge Poti fan at all, but York is now 26 years old and hasn't taken his game to a new level nor has he last a full season and been effective for the playoffs or in a playoff run.

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05-14-2004, 08:17 AM
  #16
Fletch
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Larry and Blueshirt...

compared to any other time in Sather's regime, and heck, the last couple years of Smith's, it doesn't look bad at all. Still, it seems dominated by either flawed players or 3/4 liners and third pair defensemen. Obviously they are needed, but it seems as though we're missing a couple blue-chippers. Heck, out of the top 12, there is one centerman. And Garth Murray, with his 11 AHL goals this season (and zero in the playoffs) is #10. I like him because of intangibles and others, but he looks like a fourth liner, right now. I'm excited about a few guys here, for sure, but this draft position was sorely needed as we all know.

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05-14-2004, 08:47 AM
  #17
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
compared to any other time in Sather's regime, and heck, the last couple years of Smith's, it doesn't look bad at all. Still, it seems dominated by either flawed players or 3/4 liners and third pair defensemen. Obviously they are needed, but it seems as though we're missing a couple blue-chippers. Heck, out of the top 12, there is one centerman. And Garth Murray, with his 11 AHL goals this season (and zero in the playoffs) is #10. I like him because of intangibles and others, but he looks like a fourth liner, right now. I'm excited about a few guys here, for sure, but this draft position was sorely needed as we all know.
Fletch-- I see what you are saying but, also, when it comes down to it, almost every single prospect has his flaws until he proves otherwise in the NHL..I'll agree we have a pre-dominance of what looks like future 3rd/4th liners and 4th-7th D-men but that's pretty much how it goes around the leage for the most part...I think we have somewhere between 5-7 players that have the potential to be higher then that, and hopefully 2 or 3 more after this draft...And then all will be right with the world..

Not really, because there are still holes in the prospect base...I agree about the dearth at C and also in skilled players....Why I was initially considering Schremp for the #6 buyt other things have turned me off....I'm high on Radulov (I would take any of OMO over him) because of the skill he would bring even if he is a winger..I also agree about Murray big time....

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05-14-2004, 09:52 AM
  #18
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I agree, Larry...

prehaps Sather is scheming and will eventually sign Umberger (my thesis was he gets the pick (as many have suspected) and lets RJ test the UFA waters - after he's gone on the dog and pony tour and finds out nobody will pay him what he's demanding, the Rangers trump the offer, thus paying less than it would take to likely sign him today, and get him and the #2 draft pick - all this after trading Lundmark + for something and saving $1+ million in salary next season - essentially trading-out salaries for RJ). Far-fetched, but that's all I got. Oh yeah, and that fills center somewhat and Sather feels less pressured to pick up a centerman in the first round.

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05-14-2004, 10:03 AM
  #19
Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
prehaps Sather is scheming and will eventually sign Umberger (my thesis was he gets the pick (as many have suspected) and lets RJ test the UFA waters - after he's gone on the dog and pony tour and finds out nobody will pay him what he's demanding, the Rangers trump the offer, thus paying less than it would take to likely sign him today, and get him and the #2 draft pick - all this after trading Lundmark + for something and saving $1+ million in salary next season - essentially trading-out salaries for RJ). Far-fetched, but that's all I got. Oh yeah, and that fills center somewhat and Sather feels less pressured to pick up a centerman in the first round.

Fletch--- I could definitely see that.....Or how bout this scenario...Umberger doesn't want any part of Sather and the Rangers after not coming to an agreement and signs with PITT.....PITT with less money because of the Umberger signing, and possibly worried about the transfer fee for Russian, deals the 2nd pick to the Rangers for the #6 pick, Lundmark and name your defenseman not named Tyutin...Just mentioning it as a possibility, not that I would or wouldn't do it..

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05-14-2004, 10:12 AM
  #20
Fletch
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At this point, Larry...

anything's a possibility. Looking at the prospects, there is a dearth of 3/4 liners and third pair defensemen, and a couple can possibibly be moved. Who, what where and when, who knows, but with that group and those picks, at worst, Draft Day will be interesting.

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05-14-2004, 10:15 AM
  #21
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my pick is helminen, my next group of picks will be between helminen, moore

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05-14-2004, 02:25 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnaby
not much of a Moore fan... strikes me as being not talented enough for the top 2 lines, or tough enough for the 3rd or 4th line.
I like what I saw in Moore for the 5 games with the Rangers but I do agree with Barnaby's assessment. He's not gonna cut it on the top 2 lines and there are better options organizationally for the 3rd and 4th lines.

I voted for Jonasen at this spot, I hope he continues his development at Hartford the next few years.

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05-14-2004, 05:09 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch
compared to any other time in Sather's regime, and heck, the last couple years of Smith's, it doesn't look bad at all. Still, it seems dominated by either flawed players or 3/4 liners and third pair defensemen. Obviously they are needed, but it seems as though we're missing a couple blue-chippers. Heck, out of the top 12, there is one centerman. And Garth Murray, with his 11 AHL goals this season (and zero in the playoffs) is #10. I like him because of intangibles and others, but he looks like a fourth liner, right now. I'm excited about a few guys here, for sure, but this draft position was sorely needed as we all know.
Agreed, Fletch. There is an abundance of future plumbers, but a lack of top end talent. For this reuibld to be a success, Jackass has to hit a homer or 2 in the draft. There;s no doubt that ne needs to procure at least 1 or 2 forwards that are going to be top 2 line talent. If he drafts a defenseman in the first round, then it has to be one that has #1 or #2 potential.

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05-14-2004, 06:55 PM
  #24
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AJ Thelen would be that guy. If Olesz stays put, and Ladd gets taken by Phoenix, I'd grab Thelen. However, I really make a play to move up and grab Picard or Stafford by offering a package involving some combination of either Poti or Lundmark, plus either Toronto's #1 (if the deal involves Lundmark), or a 2nd pick (if the deal involves Poti). What I'd really like to see is Poti and a 2nd round pick getting to a team like Atlanta, or perhaps say, St. Louis. Then, I'd see what Lundmark and Toronto's #1 would bring. My ideal scenario allows the rangers to get two top-six forwards and a top pairing d-man.

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05-14-2004, 07:57 PM
  #25
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Agreed, Fletch. There is an abundance of future plumbers, but a lack of top end talent. For this reuibld to be a success, Jackass has to hit a homer or 2 in the draft. There;s no doubt that ne needs to procure at least 1 or 2 forwards that are going to be top 2 line talent. If he drafts a defenseman in the first round, then it has to be one that has #1 or #2 potential.
again there is nothing wrong with players that have a future on the 3rd and 4th line when your team is not shy about bringing in top free agent talent.
btw guys like bajel jessiman roche and dawes if they make it will be on the top 2 lines. mr sather has done a fine job rebuilding the system.

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