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Hockey Canada defends Crosby; IIHF deletes controversial article

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Old
05-19-2010, 03:39 PM
  #126
Ilyeu
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Originally Posted by Ribban View Post
Probably MOST of the people responsible for making the NHL stars NHL stars. Even if they came from EUrope initially, I would challenge you to mention those who came right in and became superstar without the resources and money the NHL fans provided through their clubs.
I would challenge you to give me numbers and not a position that Most of those people stem from North America (300 million USA; 33 million Canada) as composed to the predominately European nations who comprise a good portion of a population.

So I ask again, who is this MOST you speak of? Anyone up to the challenge to prove this is a meaningless tournament, because this seems to be the way to go every time this tourney gets going. Didn't seem meaningless in 2008 when Canada was in the final versus Russia in HD on TSN.

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05-19-2010, 03:39 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post

2. a) Yes, the fans pay Crosby's salary, so do businesses, sponsors and other ventures. "YOU" are not the only person that makes Crosby rich.

2. b) Crosby is EMPLOYED by the PITTSBURGH PENGUINS (and Reebok). His obligations are to the team that pays him his $8M contract. He is not obliged to play for free, risk injury, fatigue and other things to the people he is contractually obligated to. He would be doing a HUGE disservice to himself and the people that have money invested in him, including fans of his, the Pittsburgh Penguins and the NHL. More fans than would ever be watching a few IIHF tournament games.
First, no NHL player has an outright obligation to play in the world championship. Any argument along those lines is plainly faulty.

Having said that, the part of the IIHF article that does make sense is that some of the players' affluence (note the word "some") is due to the developmental programs of the IIHF and of its member associations. Would Sidney Crosby be a poorer player without Hockey Canada's Program of Excellence? That's a pretty tough argument to make, given the fact that he was being touted as a phenom by the time he was 14. What about some of the other top players who turned Hockey Canada down? In those cases you might have a stronger case. At the same time, some of Crosby's 'legendary' status is certainly enhanced by his attendance at IIHF events like the WJC.

The point the article tries to make is that this is a symbiotic relationship. The IIHF and its member associations benefit from the world championships, and the players benefit from the enhanced stature of the game. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of marketing can see that point.

Where the article falls down is placing the blame solely at the feet of the players. Since the IIHF reinstated the Olympic-year world championship, people have been arguing against it specifically because of the player burnout factor. For 60 years, they saw no reason to have a world championship in the same year as the Olympics, yet in 1988, they suddenly thought it was a good idea. It makes dubious game-selling sense: how does poor hockey played primarily by players who aren't a part of their country's Olympic program sell your sport?

If I were 22 and an elite hockey player, I imagine I would be glad to represent my country. Then again, I'm not, so that's an empty assertion. I would love to have seen Crosby, Letang, Staal or Fleury (please, god, let Chris Mason make a first-period save tomorrow), but fans should bear no grudges to players, especially those who took part in the Olympics, who declined this year.

And finally, Hockey Canada was right for standing up for its player. They have done so in order to give themselves any hope at all of having Crosby say yes the next time he's asked.

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05-19-2010, 03:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by danaluvsthekings View Post
They care, and some of the reasons the article mentioned are legitimate reasons. Perhaps because you're a hockey fan from Europe (assuming so based on your Finland avatar, I could be wrong) where travel is less and the season is not as many games as the NHL season, being tired doesn't seem quite as a legitimate reason not to play. Teams like LA, Vancouver, Anaheim, San Jose, Calgary, and Edmonton travel close to 50,000 miles in a season. Some a little more, some a little less. It's a lot of travel for those players. I'm sure traveling another approximately 6,000 miles for a 3 week tournament isn't the first thing they want to do once the NHL season ends.

As a Kings fan I've seen plenty of Kings players go play in Worlds the last few years because the team hasn't been in the playoffs, and I've been legitimately happy for them when they've had players earn medals at Worlds. I was glad to see some of the Kings players choose to go this year after the Kings were eliminated from the NHL playoffs. At the same time I'm not going to look down on those players that chose not to go or were prevented from going due to injury.

Drew Doughty is one of those players who was playing injured in the NHL playoffs, would have kept playing had the Kings not been eliminated, and skipped Worlds due to his injury. I think he wanted to go but the Kings medical people told him to pass. Sometimes it's the NHL teams telling players to skip the tournament so they can rest injuries.

I'm not going to fault the Kings for keeping Doughty out of the tournament. He played at Worlds last year, played an 82 game NHL season this year, the Olympics, and the NHL playoffs where he was playing over 27 minutes a night. I don't think the Kings are in the wrong in asking him to rest instead of continuing to play with a wrist injury. The last thing an NHL team wants is one of their players playing through an injury in a tournament that doesn't benefit them. I can't say I blame them. Ryan Smyth broke his ankle in practice for the tournament. I'm sure Kings management wasn't real happy about that.
I actually live in Edmonton, I just like Jarkko Ruutu. He's a funny guy
I can understand a lot of travel. The KHL isn't a cake walk for travel either.
Try going from Riga, Latvia to Astana, Kazakhstan to Khabarovsk, Russia.
Thats half the world mate.
On top of which, they usually travel by bus or train.

And injuries are a legit reason not to go. or play for that matter.
I always respect players who do play in the playoffs while injured or on the brink of one.

It just isn't sitting well with me this year that 100 or more players declined. Not all of them are injured. I guess I can just see what Jagr is talking about.

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05-19-2010, 03:44 PM
  #129
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I tend to agree with the article, any player who is fit to play should be honored to play for his country and not just for the olympic.

The world championship is a very big deal for every hockey nations who participate, so if your country come calling to go play at WC and your healthy you say yes it will be an honor for me to play for my country and you go play.

But you won't find anyone in Canada who will criticize Crosby for not going that's for sure, after what he did at the Olympic no Canadians will have the balls to say that Crosby was wrong to refuse team Canada invitation.

I have a lot more respect for Ryan Smyth than I have for Crosby. You can count on Ryan Smyth, the guy always answer the call for Canada. Thank You Ryan for caring so much.

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05-19-2010, 03:46 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Who is this most you speak of?
I know (real life know, not know on the internet) about 15-20 people that are watching the playoffs avidly.

I do not know a single person that is, or is planning to, watch the WHC.

I have the playoffs on every single night. Even when I'm out I often stream it to my phone. I don't believe I have ever watched a WHC game.

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05-19-2010, 03:49 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
It's Canada's sport!

I'm a little surprised that players from Canada kind of just says "It's not that important for me"...
In terms of importance, the WHC is under the WJC now.

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05-19-2010, 03:52 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
I know (real life know, not know on the internet) about 15-20 people that are watching the playoffs avidly.

I do not know a single person that is, or is planning to, watch the WHC.

I have the playoffs on every single night. Even when I'm out I often stream it to my phone. I don't believe I have ever watched a WHC game.
So this most you speak of, by your view, is most of the people in the US? I do agree with you, that most people in the US don't watch this tournament. What does that have to do with the rest of the hockey playing world?

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05-19-2010, 03:52 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Who is this most you speak of?
Count me as one of them. Until last night, when I noticed the USA/Italy game was on the TV listings during the intermission of Blackahwks/Canucks, I had not watched a single second of this tournament. And I watch a hockey game almost every day. The IIHF tournament is completely irrelevant and it's not a stretch at all to say that "most" i.e. more than 50% of hockey fans in North America do not even know it's happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamin
Maybe the iihf needs to find a better way to show hockey players it means something to play at the worlds thats more then just representing your country on a worlds stage?
THIS. The problem is not with the players but with the tournament. If it's not best-on-best, it's irrelevant and you can't fault a pro player for skipping it.

Improvements that I would suggest as a minimum to expect participation from top-tier NHL players.

1) Move it to July, when the world's best players are rested and available. Stop insulting the NHL in the process.

2) Cancel it in years when the Olympics are the real world championships. It's embarrassing to put yourself in that kind of shadow.

3) Host it in world-class cities. Sorry but it's absurd to have an event of this scale in Riga, Bern or Cologne. It should be in Berlin, Moscow or London.

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05-19-2010, 03:54 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Count me as one of them. Until last night, when I noticed the USA/Italy game was on the TV listings during the intermission of Blackahwks/Canucks, I had not watched a single second of this tournament. And I watch a hockey game almost every day. The IIHF tournament is completely irrelevant and it's not a stretch at all to say that "most" i.e. more than 50% of hockey fans in North America do not even know it's happening.
Again, what does this most, most of the usa or "50% of hockey fans in North America" have to do with the rest of the hockey world? Did you consider most of Europe into your thought process? When did one nation and one people consider something that's been around forever, meaningless and irrelevant and important to a lot of other nations?

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05-19-2010, 03:55 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
The Cup is pretty much what North American players strive for. The worlds tournament is not that big of a deal over here. Trying to win the Cup also happens to be the reason that these players are able to spend their lives playing hockey. I am thrilled that Sid isn't going, he needs the rest. His hockey priority is the Penguins at this point, as it should be.

note: if HF boards didn't remind me, I wouldn't have known about this tournament. It's irrelevant
So he needs to stay home come next Olympics? and should of not represented Canada this year? Hmmm maybe Corey Perry can score the winner this time around.

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05-19-2010, 03:56 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
I know (real life know, not know on the internet) about 15-20 people that are watching the playoffs avidly.

I do not know a single person that is, or is planning to, watch the WHC.

I have the playoffs on every single night. Even when I'm out I often stream it to my phone. I don't believe I have ever watched a WHC game.
But then over a million viewers saw Sweden-Canada, in Sweden alone.
A Sweden-Finland matchup in the elimination stage might well pull combined ratings around, dunno 2 million minimum.

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05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
  #137
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Invoking National pride for the purposes of making more money in ads for a hockey tournament, how trite.

I don't mind if Crosby doesn't care about the WC, since I don't care either.

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05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
  #138
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Who care what the IIHF thinks. The only reason they want Crosby to go is so they can make money off him. I mean he just played in the Olympics and scored the biggest goal since '72. I don't see why he has to join a tournament nobody cares about after playing 2 rounds in the playoffs, an 82 game schedule with 7 Olympic games during his 'break'. Besides he would have had to replace someone who was already on the team which would be pretty lame anyways. It would suck traveling to Germany thinking you are going to represent your country and then all of a sudden a better player shows up and takes your spot. When the rosters are named they should be locked.

Crosby is not employed by the IIHF, he is employed by the Penguins. His obligations are to Pittsburgh anything else is up to him.

Besides would all the Russians be going this year if not for the horrible showing (or non-showing) at the Olympics? They are pissed they want a little redemption.

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05-19-2010, 03:59 PM
  #139
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In terms of importance, the WHC is under the WJC now.
This.

The World Juniour tournaments are always a bigger deal in Canada than the World Championships.

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05-19-2010, 04:02 PM
  #140
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IIHF can suck a dick what a joke
Do they understand how hard it is to be an athlete?
If I was Crosby I wouldn't go either 2 100 game seasons in a row is gonna have an effect on your body
NHL players do hard training for half there off season anyways I can completely understand players skipping the tournament

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05-19-2010, 04:03 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Roamin View Post
So he needs to stay home come next Olympics? and should of not represented Canada this year? Hmmm maybe Corey Perry can score the winner this time around.
This is why they should go back to dropping the WHC in years where the Olympics take place.

Or they could do the actually reasonable thing, and run the WHC after everyones' seasons are over, and have them be a real tournament. Or just have the World Cup of hockey every few years and call it at that. Running it during the NHL playoffs will never make sense, especially in an Olympic year, no matter how much the IIHF wants to pretend that they're important.

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05-19-2010, 04:04 PM
  #142
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Itīs easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.

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05-19-2010, 04:05 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Arular View Post
The main priority/goal of an NHL athlete is to compete for the Stanley Cup. That's why they play 82 games in the regular season away from their family in the first place. An NHLer's main priority isn't to represent their country in the World Championships, you know that.
Sorry, I guess I was confusing NHLers with Ice Hockey Players.

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05-19-2010, 04:05 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
Itīs easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Trolling works better when it's only so ridiculous as to make it still somewhat believable as a real post.

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05-19-2010, 04:08 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
Itīs easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Trolololol

...unless you're serious, then it's just . Your ignorance is astounding.

Anyways, mad props to Hockey Canada for sticking up for Crosby

It's so easy for the IIHF and some fans to ***** about players having excuses not to go, because they appear to be incapable of even trying to understand just what a grind the NHL season itself can be.

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Originally Posted by howley View Post
TIRED is a pretty good excuse in my opinion. Do we want a player there that can play at 100% or close to it or do we want a player there who is tired and banged up and not 100%?

You keep mentioning "love hockey." How much hockey do you play a year? How much do you travel with it? How much are you away from home? How beat up do you get through a season? How many days off do you get? What kind of mental strain do you go through when playing? You have no idea what these guys go through in an 82 game schedule. It's not a life for everyone. They may "love" hockey but when it comes to the end. It's nice to have a break. Just as it is with anything, too much of a good thing is still too much.

I was an athlete in a different sport and people have no idea what it takes to get through a season. Constantly on the road, constantly talking, thinking, eating, breathing, learning the sport from the minute you wake up to the minute you fall asleep. Constantly battling some nagging injury, being sore, being sick, icing yourself, etc. Living with the same group of guys for 8 months (or more) can start to drive you crazy when the only space you have is a small hotel room with a few other guys. Never eating home cooked meals, seeing your kids grow up over skype, listening to your wife cry on the phone because she had a bad day and your not around to help, having family members pass away and your not able to be around. There is so much more but no one can say to these guys don't have the right to say "NO" to going and playing in some b class tournament at the end of a long season, that may or may not have included playoffs and olympics and a long playoff run last season.

You say they live for, train for and love their sport. Your wrong. They train for their sport but in the end there are a lot more important things in life than tying up the laces and going for a skate. Jose Theodore could probably give a little more insight into that.

Maybe we should be looking at the guys that did accept the invitation and how it could be perceived that after a long season they are neglecting their families.....(I don't actually think this at all, just the other side of the coin)
Amen.


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05-19-2010, 04:09 PM
  #146
Roamin
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
This is why they should go back to dropping the WHC in years where the Olympics take place.

Or they could do the actually reasonable thing, and run the WHC after everyones' seasons are over, and have them be a real tournament. Or just have the World Cup of hockey every few years and call it at that. Running it during the NHL playoffs will never make sense, especially in an Olympic year, no matter how much the IIHF wants to pretend that they're important.
I agree that they should of held off on having it this year.
Everyone was confused when they started to have the worlds during olympic years in 1988 even.
It makes sense to skip it from some aspects. Makes less sense from growth or money aspects.

Having it after the Cup has been won probably will see even less players going to it if they aren't going now.
The scheduling of it is tricky. Someone will always be unhappy no matter where you schedule it. Altho I think I would like to see it maybe even before the season starts.
instead of meaningless exhibition games in the NHL.

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05-19-2010, 04:11 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
I honestly don't believe you were trolling, because otherwise you would have been banned long time ago for making comments like this. This is a very ignorant and stupid statement on your behalf though, I'm sorry to say.

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05-19-2010, 04:11 PM
  #148
Roamin
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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Who care what the IIHF thinks. The only reason they want Crosby to go is so they can make money off him. I mean he just played in the Olympics and scored the biggest goal since '72. I don't see why he has to join a tournament nobody cares about after playing 2 rounds in the playoffs, an 82 game schedule with 7 Olympic games during his 'break'. Besides he would have had to replace someone who was already on the team which would be pretty lame anyways. It would suck traveling to Germany thinking you are going to represent your country and then all of a sudden a better player shows up and takes your spot. When the rosters are named they should be locked.

Crosby is not employed by the IIHF, he is employed by the Penguins. His obligations are to Pittsburgh anything else is up to him.

Besides would all the Russians be going this year if not for the horrible showing (or non-showing) at the Olympics? They are pissed they want a little redemption.

Yes they would.
They're on a 24 game winning steak, 2 time defending champs playing for "mother russia". Of course they would go even if they won gold in the Olympics in the 5th overtime.

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05-19-2010, 04:11 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
Itīs easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Lol nobody cares about the World Championships, especially in an Olympic year. If you are so patriotic you should go join the army, or are you too tired or not patriotic enough?

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05-19-2010, 04:12 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by SirKillalot View Post
It's Canada's sport!

I'm a little surprised that players from Canada kind of just says "It's not that important for me"...
Simple. The tournament is not important to Canadians. Therefore there is little pressure for them to play.

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