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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

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Old
05-19-2010, 05:26 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by McLlwain View Post
Just out of curiosity.
Let's assume there won't be a break in the 2013/14 NHL-season for the Olympics, would that tournament become less important to Canadians/Americans due to the lack of NHLers participating? I mean, it's still the Olympics, right?
I'd say so, yeah. Part of the reason the Olympic hockey tournament is so high profile is because it's best-on-best. If it became "amateur" once again my guess is people, in NA at least, wouldn't care anymore. The World Cup would probably once again become the top international tourney.

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05-19-2010, 05:26 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
It´s easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Yeah Canadian's lack so much pride for hockey that they are ranked number 1 in the world. Number 1 baby!@! They smoked your russians.

They win most of the best on best tournaments(Olympics and WJC's)...

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05-19-2010, 05:30 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
It's mutual disregard, too. This does not get said enough.

When Europeans schedule their tournament to overlap with the Stanley Cup playoffs, they are saying that they don't really care if the US and Canada send their best teams to the World Championships.

This is a tournament for players in the European leagues. Its annual scheduling is an insult to the NHL. Whenever it is held in North America, I would support a delay until the NHL is finished play.
The tournament has been going on at this time of year for much longer than the NHL has been 30 teams and playing well into the summer. Having it in July, as you suggest, would be ridiculous. Who want's to stop their vacation in the middle of summer to go play a winter sport when most players have been done since early April? The NHL has four teams remaining, and it affects European teams just as much as Canada or the States, but it's hardly a reason for the 95% of players who are available to say no. If IIHF countries could pull out of any tournament that is not popular in their respective lands, then say good buy to the World Juniors, cause Canada is the only country that follows it.

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05-19-2010, 05:31 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Chicagofan19 View Post
if a hockeyplayer needs to be pressured by the media to play for his country, than it is obvious, that it is not a question of pride and merit for him!
OR the tournament where said player is representing his country is not important enough in the view of the player to overcome the cons of attending. The onus then lies on the tournament organizers to make themselves a more attractive venue so that all the top players want to attend.

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05-19-2010, 05:34 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Yeah Canadian's lack so much pride for hockey that they are ranked number 1 in the world. Number 1 baby!@! They smoked your russians.

They win most of the best on best tournaments(Olympics and WJC's)...
The World Juniors are not a best on best tournament. The best U-20 players are in the NHL and usually not released to play for their teams (this year for example Duchene, Myers, Tavares, E. Kane...)

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05-19-2010, 05:36 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Chicagofan19 View Post
if a hockeyplayer needs to be pressured by the media to play for his country, than it is obvious, that it is not a question of pride and merit for him!
You should be glad that every nation is not represented by its best players. If they were, you wouldn't ever have the chance to see your country participate.

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05-19-2010, 05:36 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by McLlwain View Post
Just out of curiosity.
Let's assume there won't be a break in the 2013/14 NHL-season for the Olympics, would that tournament become less important to Canadians/Americans due to the lack of NHLers participating? I mean, it's still the Olympics, right?
to answer your question, if the best players are not playing then the level of importance decreases.

1)Which is more important in soccer/football, the olympics or the World Cup?
2)Why is the world cup more important and popular?

The BEST vs the BEST is what is most important, why is this so hard for some people to undertsand?

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05-19-2010, 05:36 PM
  #183
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And the IIHF insists on holding the "World Championships" smack dab in the middle of the playoffs during an Olympic year, why?

If they want to get the stars, they should probably reconsider some of their strategies, among other things, scheduling.

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05-19-2010, 05:37 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
The World Juniors are not a best on best tournament. The best U-20 players are in the NHL and usually not released to play for their teams (this year for example Duchene, Myers, Tavares, E. Kane...)
Right and neither is the World Championships. Canadians just love the World Juniors because it's the best international tournament for junior hockey players. Plus the games are great, Canada usually wins, it's at a good time of the year and something amazing seems to happen every year. Also we get a peak at some of the NHL future stars.

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05-19-2010, 05:38 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
The World Juniors are not a best on best tournament. The best U-20 players are in the NHL and usually not released to play for their teams (this year for example Duchene, Myers, Tavares, E. Kane...)
Well the country most affected by losing its best players is Canada, yet we still win most of them. So that just makes my original point even stronger.

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05-19-2010, 05:42 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by hockeygoon15 View Post
Whoa, easy there..

You have to have your own language to be Patriotic? Canada doesn't have a national history or culture? Part of their national history and culture is beating your ass in hockey whenever they so choose. Just cause the little guy challenges the champ every few months doesn't mean the champ has to answer their call.
wake up, man!
the "champ", who fancies himself to be to good to answer a "little guy challenge" isn't worth to be called a champ! that's a lesson, you can learn on every hockey pond in your neighbourhood in your ****ing homecountry of hockey.

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05-19-2010, 05:45 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
The tournament has been going on at this time of year for much longer than the NHL has been 30 teams and playing well into the summer. Having it in July, as you suggest, would be ridiculous. Who want's to stop their vacation in the middle of summer to go play a winter sport when most players have been done since early April? The NHL has four teams remaining, and it affects European teams just as much as Canada or the States, but it's hardly a reason for the 95% of players who are available to say no. If IIHF countries could pull out of any tournament that is not popular in their respective lands, then say good buy to the World Juniors, cause Canada is the only country that follows it.
Sure but the timing still sucks. Canadian players have no obligation to play in the tournament. If European players love the tournament than good for them enjoy it, but it's just not important to most Canadians. Just because the tournament exists doesn't mean anybody has to play in it.

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05-19-2010, 05:48 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by DecyferDown View Post
I'd say so, yeah. Part of the reason the Olympic hockey tournament is so high profile is because it's best-on-best. If it became "amateur" once again my guess is people, in NA at least, wouldn't care anymore. The World Cup would probably once again become the top international tourney.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
It would certainly diminish the importance of the medals. "Best-on-best" is crucial for any international tournament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Yeah of course. When we watch a national tournament we want to see the best of the best. The more NHL players who miss out the less the tournament seems important.
But wouldn't this make the case that it's upon the players in the first place to make the WC a meaningful tournament?
What if all those invited high profile players hadn't declined?
Wouldn't it be a tournament worth watching then?

I totally agree the IIHF should go back to not having a WC in the same year as the Olympics. And probably it shouldn't even take place every year - like in soccer, where it's a way bigger deal since it's only every four years.

But in the end it's the personnel that shows up on the ice that makes it exciting or important enough to care about even during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

A real Russia-Canada rematch would be awesome. Real in terms of as close to the same lineup as they both had at the Olympics. A Canada-USA rematch would have been awesome. A real chance for Sweden to redeem themselves.

I don't think the tournament itself (especially given its history) is the problem. It actually boils down to the players who participate or decide not to. The more high profile players turn down invitations, the less relevant the tournament becomes. Healthy guys leading by example (i.e. Crosby) won't stop that trend but rather show other players it's okay to say no. On the long run that's not good for anybody. Not good for the Federations, not good for national programs, not good for hockey.

Though Crosby may seriously deserve some rest after the last three years he had, it wouldn't hurt to look beyond a single player. And that's what that IIHF article did. Calling names might be inappropriate, but putting the finger on a issue important to hockey all over the world is certainly not.

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05-19-2010, 05:54 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by McLlwain View Post
But wouldn't this make the case that it's upon the players in the first place to make the WC a meaningful tournament?
What if all those invited high profile players hadn't declined?
Wouldn't it be a tournament worth watching then?

I totally agree the IIHF should go back to not having a WC in the same year as the Olympics. And probably it shouldn't even take place every year - like in soccer, where it's a way bigger deal since it's only every four years.

But in the end it's the personnel that shows up on the ice that makes it exciting or important enough to care about even during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

A real Russia-Canada rematch would be awesome. Real in terms of as close to the same lineup as they both had at the Olympics. A Canada-USA rematch would have been awesome. A real chance for Sweden to redeem themselves.

I don't think the tournament itself (especially given its history) is the problem. It actually boils down to the players who participate or decide not to. The more high profile players turn down invitations, the less relevant the tournament becomes. Healthy guys leading by example (i.e. Crosby) won't stop that trend but rather show other players it's okay to say no. On the long run that's not good for anybody. Not good for the Federations, not good for national programs, not good for hockey.

Though Crosby may seriously deserve some rest after the last three years he had, it wouldn't hurt to look beyond a single player. And that's what that IIHF article did. Calling names might be inappropriate, but putting the finger on a issue important to hockey all over the world is certainly not.
very strong statement, mcllwain! i agree on every single word written there.

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05-19-2010, 05:55 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Lol nobody cares about the World Championships, especially in an Olympic year. If you are so patriotic you should go join the army, or are you too tired or not patriotic enough?
Many people care, perhaps North American hockey fans don't. Although there seemed to be a great deal of activity in the US and Canada threads before the tournament started. Then it became less and less prestigeous as the matches went on.

The world championship is one of the premier international competitions that hockey has to offer, that's a fact. The idea that this is a worthless tournament that holds no value is an opinion.

800,000 swedes watched Sweden's match against Norway. I've checked some of Denmark's biggest papers online and their achievements have been constant front page news. Besides that I have no knowledge of how high or low the interest is in other countries but I think the odds are pretty low that there's a great deal of interest in other European countries as well.

The writer asks why the Swedish Red wings players declined. He could've found the answer by doing some research . Some players spoke out anonymously how the whole olympic team were extremely unhappy with BÅG's coaching and how he put together the lines during the olympics. Just as the Russians decided to play the world championship right after the olympic exit, the Swedes immeadietly decided not to after the exit. I don't blame the players for their choice.
I do think it sucks that the SEL players are declining to play but perhaps the top guys disgruntlement trickled down.

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05-19-2010, 05:55 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Right and neither is the World Championships. Canadians just love the World Juniors because it's the best international tournament for junior hockey players. Plus the games are great, Canada usually wins, it's at a good time of the year and something amazing seems to happen every year. Also we get a peak at some of the NHL future stars.
it's a great time of year. Right after christmas? What a great time to watch the stars of tomorrow. the WJC fervour in Canada has to be something close to how some of those European countries feel about the senior championship.

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05-19-2010, 05:59 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
It´s easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Aren't you the guy who wanted the Russian Ice Hockey federation to ban all NHL players from the National team because they were not patriotic enough? I guess they are patriotic enough?

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05-19-2010, 06:01 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
It´s easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
This guy definitely writes for Pravda.

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05-19-2010, 06:03 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Roamin View Post
I hope you watch Invictus one day.

The score even had a documentary on Nelson Mandela and the Springbok rugby team for the 1995 Worlds.
Look it up, you'll see why and how some people invoke national pride in world tournaments.
For political reasons? Yes, I understand how frivolous interests can unite a shattered nation (and what an excellent tactic it is), but we're not exactly dealing with that here, are we?

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05-19-2010, 06:07 PM
  #195
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I wish I could be a hockey player, playing as much hockey as they do, or just being as good and enjoying the game at a high level. I can not be a hockey player however, or much of an athlete for that matter.
There's always people who take their position and role in life for granted. Hockey players aren't excluded.

This all boils down to unfortunately many players not caring enough to play at the worlds.
If they cared, they would go. And thats a shame when your countries international teams comes calling and is told no by so many players.
Hate to nitpick but your admission just illustrates why you have such a strong and short sided view on this subject. Anyone who has at least stepped on the ice a few times can only vaguely imagine the grind these players go through over the course of a season. You're also basically defining these guys by their profession, not ever taking into account their lives outside of hockey. Would it be fair to define you by your lack of athletic ability? Perhaps what you do for work should exclusively define you. Equating participation in this tournament with the love of the game is baseless.

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Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
Thing is, though, Crosby's a bachelor. He doesn't have any of these extraneous commitments and can fully dedicate every hour of every day to hockey if he so chose to.
Suddenly watching an athlete play a game on tv makes you an authority on their personal life? So because he is not married he has no other family or obligations? I would argue that devoting more time to hockey than these guys already do would be more ridiculous than whatever they are presently being accused of.

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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
Give me a break, if you're in your 20's you shouldn't be complaining about almost five full months of off season. There's plenty of elite talent in the IIHF tournament that has no problem going, or getting better for their club because of it.
The offseason doesnt consist of being completely removed from playing and conditioning and then just going into camp ready to roll. So we're clear, barring that they have five months between seasons, they really don't have five months off of working.

I dont want to be misunderstood here. I could care less about Crosby being named or Zetterberg or Backstrom. The point is, these players have a right to choose to play or not. Have we really perverted this argument to the point in which we are evoking Invictus as an example of what participating in a national tournament means? Wow. National Pride? Its a hockey tournament. Despite whatever your opinions are of a players salary, they are paid to play in the nhl. Hockey is a full time job and though it beats the hell out of anything we all are doing for careers, it is considerably more than 99% of us could handle. You work a 9-5, not glamorous, and you go home for the most part. These guys play literally everyday and its a bit more intense than sitting at a desk or working on a house etc... They travel constantly and push their bodies and minds through a truly rigorous schedule, get a bit of time to rest and have to get right back into shape months before camp starts. You may have a great and supportive family that keeps you semi motivating while shoveling **** around for less money than you'd like. I guess because of their pay they are expected to become more than human on a near constant basis.

Its very easy to judge from behind a desk but asserting that someone is somehow less patriotic for not attending a hockey game is pretty low. This is, after all, a for profit tournament for the IIHF. Instead of lambasting players and exploiting the less than fortunate of certain countries populations, why doesnt the IIHF donate as much money as they can to help out the less fortunate?
Then perhaps not participating would almost merit this kind of weird outrage.

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05-19-2010, 06:08 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
It´s easy: if you are a patriotic and love your country, you go to the WC; if you only care about money, then you make pathetic excuses.

To be honest, and please don't feel offended, I understand the position of canadian players. Canada is a former British Colony, and his citizens don't have roots, a lenguage, a national history, a culture to fight for. The 90% of its players are from Europe, and the rest from Africa and Asia. So, I don't blame them.
Time to put the bottle of Vodka away until morning Sergei.

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05-19-2010, 06:09 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by McLlwain View Post
But wouldn't this make the case that it's upon the players in the first place to make the WC a meaningful tournament?
What if all those invited high profile players hadn't declined?
Wouldn't it be a tournament worth watching then?

I totally agree the IIHF should go back to not having a WC in the same year as the Olympics. And probably it shouldn't even take place every year - like in soccer, where it's a way bigger deal since it's only every four years.

But in the end it's the personnel that shows up on the ice that makes it exciting or important enough to care about even during the Stanley Cup playoffs.

A real Russia-Canada rematch would be awesome. Real in terms of as close to the same lineup as they both had at the Olympics. A Canada-USA rematch would have been awesome. A real chance for Sweden to redeem themselves.

I don't think the tournament itself (especially given its history) is the problem. It actually boils down to the players who participate or decide not to. The more high profile players turn down invitations, the less relevant the tournament becomes. Healthy guys leading by example (i.e. Crosby) won't stop that trend but rather show other players it's okay to say no. On the long run that's not good for anybody. Not good for the Federations, not good for national programs, not good for hockey.

Though Crosby may seriously deserve some rest after the last three years he had, it wouldn't hurt to look beyond a single player. And that's what that IIHF article did. Calling names might be inappropriate, but putting the finger on a issue important to hockey all over the world is certainly not.
You make a good point, the credibility would probably go up a little bit if stars did say yes to this... but imo it still wouldn't be nearly as big as the Olympics, because not all top talent would be available due to playoffs... like, this year for example... Even if all the Olympians from this year's Team Canada decided to go, we'd still be missing 9 players, which about 1/3 of the team.

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05-19-2010, 06:26 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by DecyferDown View Post
You make a good point, the credibility would probably go up a little bit if stars did say yes to this... but imo it still wouldn't be nearly as big as the Olympics, because not all top talent would be available due to playoffs... like, this year for example... Even if all the Olympians from this year's Team Canada decided to go, we'd still be missing 9 players, which about 1/3 of the team.
Not to single out Canada but to stick with your example:
Take 2/3 of Canada's Olympic team and add the likes of Tavares, Duchene, and Stamkos - that should have made a very watchable team gathering a lot of attention on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.

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05-19-2010, 06:29 PM
  #199
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Yes they would.
They're on a 24 game winning steak, 2 time defending champs playing for "mother russia". Of course they would go even if they won gold in the Olympics in the 5th overtime.
But not a single one of them would go if they were still in the NHL playoffs playing for the Cup.

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05-19-2010, 06:30 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Roamin View Post
So he needs to stay home come next Olympics? and should of not represented Canada this year? Hmmm maybe Corey Perry can score the winner this time around.
Wait wait so Olympic gold = WC gold now?

It's all about priority, had Crosby not shown for the Olympics millions and millions of Canadians would've said "wtf?", as for the WC, barely anyone outside regular hockey fans know it's going on, let alone who's even on the team.

As for Crosby/Backstrom or anyone else who says their tired, they very well could be, who are we to tell them their not tired.

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