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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Hockey Canada defends Crosby; IIHF deletes controversial article

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Old
05-19-2010, 05:36 PM
  #201
Jussi
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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Lol nobody cares about the World Championships, especially in an Olympic year.
Russians players beg to differ and Datsyuk and Malkin have played just as much hockey in the same time period as Crosby (Datsyuk even more if you count the 06-07 season). Also the 465 000 people who have attended the games in Germany, with 8 games to go, may also have a differing opinion

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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Than obviously Russians hold the tournament in higher regard than Canadians do. This tournament is not popular here or deemed important at all.
Newsflash, Canada: nobody cares that you don't care.

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05-19-2010, 05:39 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Russians players beg to differ and Datsyuk and Malkin have played just as much hockey in the same time period as Crosby (Datsyuk even more if you count the 06-07 season). Also the 465 000 people who have attended the games in Germany, with 8 games to go, may also have a differing opinion



Newsflash, Canada: nobody cares that you don't care.
and no one cares that you care.
ps, every game I've watched has been less then half full of people.

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05-19-2010, 05:43 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Newsflash, Canada: nobody cares that you don't care.
Apparently the IIHF does.

The thing is, the tournament is stigmatized over here as a tournament for losers. Being a multi-time WC veteran basically means you've played on mediocre teams.

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05-19-2010, 05:47 PM
  #204
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Would Canadian fans be as nonchalant if some of the best players started to decline World Junior invites so they could rest over the Christmas break?

Not sure if Europeans would care, after all its just some Canadian tournament no one else cares about

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05-19-2010, 06:01 PM
  #205
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I am not watching the World Championships for two reasons.

One, the Stanley Cup playoffs are on right now, and two, the World Championships are so completely irrelevant here that they are not even televised in this country.

Not enough people rake the IIHF over the coals for their annual scheduling.

If UEFA piped up one year and said, "Guess what? We're going to hold the UEFA Champions or EUFA Euro football championship over the same two or three week period as the World Cup, and then we're going to castigate people who don't show up," they would get laughed off the stage.

All you do when you schedule your event at the same time as the sport's premier event is solidify your event's second-class status. The World Championships would fare far better if the schedule were moved to after the Stanley Cup were awarded.

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05-19-2010, 06:02 PM
  #206
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I remember a few years ago when Hockey Canada said that the players that don't participate in the World championship could be held against them when they decide who plays in the Olympics...then I see Martin St.louis get shafted from the Olympic team after playing in the last 3 world championships.


Last edited by MotorMaster: 05-19-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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05-19-2010, 06:04 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Would Canadian fans be as nonchalant if some of the best players started to decline World Junior invites so they could rest over the Christmas break?

Not sure if Europeans would care, after all its just some Canadian tournament no one else cares about
Players have more to gain from playing in the WJC though. A good or bad tournament can have a large impact on a players' draft position. Not to mention getting some big game experience for their development. The WC can open some eyes to lesser known guys, but that's about it. Star players have little incentive to go.

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05-19-2010, 06:09 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Would Canadian fans be as nonchalant if some of the best players started to decline World Junior invites so they could rest over the Christmas break?

Not sure if Europeans would care, after all its just some Canadian tournament no one else cares about
What does that have to do with anything? If other countries don't want to send their best players or their players declined it's their right. Nobody is gonna force anyone to play, nor should they.

In North America WC are viewed as a second tier event. Far below the Olympics or Stanley Cup Playoffs. The tournament is big in Europe and that's great, but North American players don't consider it an important tournament.

Just because the tournament exists doesn't mean players have to go and join the event so that they can make the IIHF money (while being paid none). The tournament organizers should focus on making the tournament more attractive to NHL players, that includes a better schedule and I think a yearly tournament might be too much.

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05-19-2010, 06:10 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorMaster View Post
I remember a few years ago when Hockey Canada said that the players that don't participate in the World championship could be held against them when they decide who plays in the Olympics...then I see Martin St.louis get shafted from the Olympic team after playing in the last 3 world championships.
Just because you play in the tournament doesn't mean you should get an automatic spot on the Olympic team.

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05-19-2010, 06:17 PM
  #210
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I think there can only be one right attitude toward this: those that don't take the WC seriously, it's their loss and it doesn't take anything away from the players and fans that do care.

The WC may not feature the "A" teams of the Olympics (well, except in some circumstances), but it's still the next best international competition there is in hockey and provides an accurate picture of all each countries' abilities and depth. While in the short run a hundred or so player refusals won't impact the general comparative power of each hockey nation, in the long run it can definitely skewer the national programs and prestige of international hockey. I have no doubt whatsoever though that next year's WC in Slovakia will have much better rosters.

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05-19-2010, 06:18 PM
  #211
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The common denominator is that players don't want to come to the WC. This is the IIHF's problem not the players. You can't just expect players to feel a nationalistic pride just because you put on an international tournament. What if I put on an international tournament here in Thunder Bay and invited all the best players in the world?

That's a bit of an over-exaggeration since the IIHF World Champions is a long standing tradition but the point is that if players decide that the a World Championship isn't meaningful then that's the end of it. It's meaningful because the players say it is NOT because the IIHF says their tournament is.

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05-19-2010, 06:18 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
Just because you play in the tournament doesn't mean you should get an automatic spot on the Olympic team.
No but seeing as how he was third in scoring amongst Canadians and served his country the last three years should mean something especially when hockey Canada said it would does, ...Look at Iginila for example when was the last time he played at the World Championship?

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05-19-2010, 06:25 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post

Newsflash, Canada: nobody cares that you don't care.
Erm, except the guy who wrote the article that this thread is discussing, right? You know, the guy whining about players not caring about this tournament. He cares, right? And that's why we're all in here arguing, isn't it?

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05-19-2010, 06:25 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
I think there can only be one right attitude toward this: those that don't take the WC seriously, it's their loss and it doesn't take anything away from the players and fans that do care.

The WC may not feature the "A" teams of the Olympics (well, except in some circumstances), but it's still the next best international competition there is in hockey and provides an accurate picture of all each countries' abilities and depth. While in the short run a hundred or so player refusals won't impact the general comparative power of each hockey nation, in the long run it can definitely skewer the national programs and prestige of international hockey. I have no doubt whatsoever though that next year's WC in Slovakia will have much better rosters.
I agree 100%.

I still think there is more the IIHF can do to make the tournament more appealing.

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05-19-2010, 06:31 PM
  #215
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I would have a hard time putting my family off for three weeks to play in some tournament where they plaster my country's jersey with advertisements.

Sorry. I know you Europeans are really proud of your advertisement heavy jerseys, but I won't really give more than a **** about the World Championships as long as it remains as corporate as it is today.

You also forget that people in North America also have the Memorial Cup to watch if they get bored of playoff hockey. Players aren't going to be jumping the gun to come play in some tournament they couldn't watch growing up because it is on at eight in the ****ing morning.

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05-19-2010, 06:33 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
I think there can only be one right attitude toward this: those that don't take the WC seriously, it's their loss and it doesn't take anything away from the players and fans that do care.

The WC may not feature the "A" teams of the Olympics (well, except in some circumstances), but it's still the next best international competition there is in hockey and provides an accurate picture of all each countries' abilities and depth. While in the short run a hundred or so player refusals won't impact the general comparative power of each hockey nation, in the long run it can definitely skewer the national programs and prestige of international hockey. I have no doubt whatsoever though that next year's WC in Slovakia will have much better rosters.
...and I don't think that people necessarily have a problem if that is the attitude that the IIHF chooses to take, but instead, we see this petulant guilt trip every year directed at players who decline invites.

This article bears the imprimatur of the IIHF. It appears squarely on the IIHF website. That makes it akin to a policy statement.

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05-19-2010, 06:35 PM
  #217
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Just my opinion (for what it's worth) but any player that refuses the invite (other than for injury or any other reasonable reason) is being selfish.

The article by SZYMON SZEMBERG is bang on.

Too often we put athletes on pedestals, forgetting that very few here, are ever going to be able to lead the lavish lifestyle that they do.

I love Sid but is he a hero? even for scoring the winning goal in the olympics? Not in my eyes. He is playing a kids sport and is being paid quite well. He'll make more in one year than most of us will in a lifetime.

Yep he had the right to say no but the reasons I can't accept.

It's not just him, any player that says no is just being selfish.

They play hockey from September to May, 3 months off, yep real hardship there.

I lost a bit of respect for Sid and others and gained some for OV and the Russians that answered the call.

Want to talk about guys answering the call for their countries?

Well, Canada brought one home on Sunday, another ones coming home later this week. From Afghanistan, in a coffin.

And what do they get paid?

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05-19-2010, 06:37 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I am not watching the World Championships for two reasons.

One, the Stanley Cup playoffs are on right now, and two, the World Championships are so completely irrelevant here that they are not even televised in this country.

Not enough people rake the IIHF over the coals for their annual scheduling.

If UEFA piped up one year and said, "Guess what? We're going to hold the UEFA Champions or EUFA Euro football championship over the same two or three week period as the World Cup, and then we're going to castigate people who don't show up," they would get laughed off the stage.

All you do when you schedule your event at the same time as the sport's premier event is solidify your event's second-class status. The World Championships would fare far better if the schedule were moved to after the Stanley Cup were awarded.
I pretty much agree with all of this. But even though the NHL is the one calling the shots, I wish it was the NHL moving their entire schedule up a month. Imagine if the regular season started in September, plays started in March, the Stanley Cup was awarded in early May and then the World Championships right after that.

That would be the best of both worlds, hockey starting first thing in the fall and eligibility for all NHL players in the WC.

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05-19-2010, 06:37 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Hockey Fan001 View Post
Just my opinion (for what it's worth) but any player that refuses the invite (other than for injury or any other reasonable reason) is being selfish.

The article by SZYMON SZEMBERG is bang on.

Too often we put athletes on pedestals, forgetting that very few here, are ever going to be able to lead the lavish lifestyle that they do.


I love Sid but is he a hero? even for scoring the winning goal in the olympics? Not in my eyes. He is playing a kids sport and is being paid quite well. He'll make more in one year than most of us will in a lifetime.

Yep he had the right to say no but the reasons I can't accept.

It's not just him, any player that says no is just being selfish.

They play hockey from September to May, 3 months off, yep real hardship there.

I lost a bit of respect for Sid and others and gained some for OV and the Russians that answered the call.

Want to talk about guys answering the call for their countries?

Well, Canada brought one home on Sunday, another ones coming home later this week. From Afghanistan, in a coffin.

And what do they get paid?
Who is we? It is the media who does this. I do not look at athletes to be role models and no one else should either.

Quit bringing soldiers into this as well. This isn't the first time you have done that.

This argument that doctors, and teachers and blah blah blah should be paid millions of dollars is nonsense and I get the impression from you that this is how you feel.

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05-19-2010, 06:40 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
I pretty much agree with all of this. But even though the NHL is the one calling the shots, I wish it was the NHL moving their entire schedule up a month. Imagine if the regular season started in September, plays started in March, the Stanley Cup was awarded in early May and then the World Championships right after that.

That would be the best of both worlds, hockey starting first thing in the fall and eligibility for all NHL players in the WC.
That wouldn't bother me either. There is more appropriate weather in most of the US for hockey during a season that starts one month earlier, too.

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05-19-2010, 06:42 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Hockey Fan001 View Post
Just my opinion (for what it's worth) but any player that refuses the invite (other than for injury or any other reasonable reason) is being selfish.

The article by SZYMON SZEMBERG is bang on.

Too often we put athletes on pedestals, forgetting that very few here, are ever going to be able to lead the lavish lifestyle that they do.

I love Sid but is he a hero? even for scoring the winning goal in the olympics? Not in my eyes. He is playing a kids sport and is being paid quite well. He'll make more in one year than most of us will in a lifetime.

Yep he had the right to say no but the reasons I can't accept.

It's not just him, any player that says no is just being selfish.

They play hockey from September to May, 3 months off, yep real hardship there.

I lost a bit of respect for Sid and others and gained some for OV and the Russians that answered the call.

Want to talk about guys answering the call for their countries?

Well, Canada brought one home on Sunday, another ones coming home later this week. From Afghanistan, in a coffin.

And what do they get paid?
Yeah Sid, go to hell! You're not supporting our troops!

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05-19-2010, 06:44 PM
  #222
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And a guy who played 82 games + 2 rds of the playoffs would get panned for not being able to play at 100% for his country, too.

It's easy to talk about how an athlete shouldn't feel tired when you're sitting behind a desk.

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05-19-2010, 06:45 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I am not watching the World Championships for two reasons.

One, the Stanley Cup playoffs are on right now, and two, the World Championships are so completely irrelevant here that they are not even televised in this country.

Not enough people rake the IIHF over the coals for their annual scheduling.

If UEFA piped up one year and said, "Guess what? We're going to hold the UEFA Champions or EUFA Euro football championship over the same two or three week period as the World Cup, and then we're going to castigate people who don't show up," they would get laughed off the stage.

All you do when you schedule your event at the same time as the sport's premier event is solidify your event's second-class status. The World Championships would fare far better if the schedule were moved to after the Stanley Cup were awarded.
I'll agree with you on that.

And for the reasons you say, the World Juniors should be held after the NHL season is over. (Canada loses a few good players because the NHL owners won't release them)

The Under 18 should be moved to after the Memorial cup, again because Canada has many players eligible that can't play because their teams are in the playoffs.

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05-19-2010, 06:46 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by The Dayvan Cowboy View Post
I would have a hard time putting my family off for three weeks to play in some tournament where they plaster my country's jersey with advertisements.

Sorry. I know you Europeans are really proud of your advertisement heavy jerseys, but I won't really give more than a **** about the World Championships as long as it remains as corporate as it is today.

You also forget that people in North America also have the Memorial Cup to watch if they get bored of playoff hockey. Players aren't going to be jumping the gun to come play in some tournament they couldn't watch growing up because it is on at eight in the ****ing morning.
First of all, most players have their families go over with them. In Team Canada's case, Hockey Canada pays for that. I met a lot of them in Riga in '06, and they were all happy to be there. For many of them it was their first time in Europe, so it's something they wouldn't have experienced if it wasn't for the tournament. A lot of them continued to check out other countries after.

As for the ads, get real and stop embellishing. It's two bars on the sleeves. It's no worse than the Molson Ex or Rona ads on the front of CFL jerseys, or than the advertising in the NHL, where even the penalty updates, game day line-ups and three stars are branded by some company.

Interest in the Memorial Cup tends to be concentrated to the League that's hosting it. I don't know a single person who's watched it this year (and I'm saying this as a guy who's been a season ticket holder in the OHL for three of the last four years, and someone who knows a lot of junior hockey fans). Even with the time differential and midday broadcasts, the Worlds outdraw it ratings wise.

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05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Heatley#15 View Post
Who is we? It is the media who does this. I do not look at athletes to be role models and no one else should either.

Quit bringing soldiers into this as well. This isn't the first time you have done that.

This argument that doctors, and teachers and blah blah blah should be paid millions of dollars is nonsense and I get the impression from you that this is how you feel.
Excuse me? I can bring Soldiers or any one else into this.

Who are you? God?

Doctors maybe. Teachers? No!

PS: If you actually think any hockey player is worth over 2 million, you are NUTS.

Raising hockey salaries are what killed 2 teams in Canada, yeah let them go up even more, the Canadian dollar go back to 65 US, and say bye to 4 other Canadian teams.
The players wouldn't care. So I guess you wouldn't either.


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