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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2011 World Cup

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05-21-2010, 02:11 AM
  #51
Wham City
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Originally Posted by GavinD80 View Post
Yet 2004 will be remembered as the last cash garb before the lockout. This was the reason it was held anyways.

Basing a competition on the size of someone's members, as many "World Cup" supporters are, has no real validity.
Was there a country in 2004 who should have been there instead of any of the 8 participating countries?

Switzerland was ranked 9th by the IIHF, should they have been there instead of Germany who were ranked 8th?

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05-21-2010, 02:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
The World Cup is more international then the World Championships imo, in 2004 games were played on both international and north american ice in six different countries in the these cities; Toronto, Prague, Helsinki, Montreal, Cologne, St. Paul, and Stockholm.

The rosters were Olympic caliber as well, they really should put this tournament on consistently in off Olympic years.

With what appears like continued olympic participation likely, I doubt NHL owners would also agree to a World Cup.

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05-21-2010, 02:30 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
The World Cup is more international then the World Championships imo, in 2004 games were played on both international and north american ice in six different countries in the these cities; Toronto, Prague, Helsinki, Montreal, Cologne, St. Paul, and Stockholm.

The rosters were Olympic caliber as well, they really should put this tournament on consistently in off Olympic years.
No.

Only if Canada and USA agree to travel to Europe for the playoff stage with only a few days preparation.

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05-21-2010, 02:33 AM
  #54
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With what appears like continued olympic participation likely, I doubt NHL owners would also agree to a World Cup.
You're probably right, but considering the numbers hockey did in the Olympics, if you marketed it correctly I imagine you could do big numbers in the states. A World Cup in 2012 in September would be perfect, play some games in Boston/New York. Remind Americans these players they remember in Kane/Parise/Miller still exist. Not to mention the Canadian and European broadcast deals would bring in a fair amount of money and serve as a great prelude to Sochi.

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05-21-2010, 02:48 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
You're probably right, but considering the numbers hockey did in the Olympics, if you marketed it correctly I imagine you could do big numbers in the states. A World Cup in 2012 in September would be perfect, play some games in Boston/New York. Remind Americans these players they remember in Kane/Parise/Miller still exist. Not to mention the Canadian and European broadcast deals would bring in a fair amount of money and serve as a great prelude to Sochi.


Good one. You are SERIOUSLY overrating the European tv markets (not to mention the fans) interest for the World Cup. No one is going to pay big money for games that are played in the middle of the night, especially in a year that will have already seen Euro 2012 and the London Olympic Games. E.g. I can't see any Finnish network being much interested in the tournament. Maybe one channel that is part of the Canal Plus consortium, but they would put the games in pay-tv channels which means very, very small viewership.

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05-21-2010, 02:58 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post


Good one. You are SERIOUSLY overrating the European tv markets (not to mention the fans) interest for the World Cup. No one is going to pay big money for games that are played in the middle of the night, especially in a year that will have already seen Euro 2012 and the London Olympic Games. E.g. I can't see any Finnish network being much interested in the tournament. Maybe one channel that is part of the Canal Plus consortium, but they would put the games in pay-tv channels which means very, very small viewership.
No different then the environment the World Cup of Hockey faced in 2004, the final of a 2012 tournament would be played two months after the Euro and more then a month after the Olympics.

Notice I grouped Canada and Europe together, not saying they'd bring in equal revenue, just the two together would make money.

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05-21-2010, 03:40 AM
  #57
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The olympics nowdays is the closest we have to a real championship between nations. Every nation in the world gets the chance to participate (given that they are qualified of course) while the World Cup is more like an invitational tourney (same organizer, the teams are invited rather than qualified by official rankings, the final rounds all take place in NA), as if it was a "friendly" tournament.

But of course there is a lot of prestige in the World Cup no matter what .

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05-21-2010, 03:41 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post


Good one. You are SERIOUSLY overrating the European tv markets (not to mention the fans) interest for the World Cup. No one is going to pay big money for games that are played in the middle of the night, especially in a year that will have already seen Euro 2012 and the London Olympic Games. E.g. I can't see any Finnish network being much interested in the tournament. Maybe one channel that is part of the Canal Plus consortium, but they would put the games in pay-tv channels which means very, very small viewership.
Well I for one is very interested.

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05-21-2010, 07:07 AM
  #59
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How about playing the final match somewhere else than Canada for a change?

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05-21-2010, 07:14 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
Well I for one is very interested.
Good one. You are SERIOUSLY overrating the European tv markets (not to mention the fans) interest for the World Cup. No one is going to pay big money for games that are played in the middle of the night, especially in a year that will have already seen Euro 2012 and the London Olympic Games. E.g. I can't see any Finnish network being much interested in the tournament. Maybe one channel that is part of the Canal Plus consortium, but they would put the games in pay-tv channels which means very, very small viewership.
I bet Nelonen would show it like last time in World Cup 2004. It was a good tournament I dont understand whine about it. Allways cool best on best hockey. Only thing that makes it a litle joke is because the ones who should be arranging the tournament, dont even themselves know if this tournament is going to happen... It allways is being held to randomly, it should be 2 years after olympics allways so there were best on best tournament every 2 years..

Wasnt it last time played on NHL size rink in Helsinki and everywhere other places too? Atleast i remember there was NHL refs with their NHL costumes. What sucks in it is the times, its like nonsense, Finland was in Finals last time against Canada, so I had to wake up wathing Teemu and the guys 04.00am midnight! They play the games in absolutely nonsense time. I really hadnt the true hockey athmosphere and feeling in that World Cup Final in god damn early morning..


Last edited by QnebO: 05-21-2010 at 07:21 AM.
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05-21-2010, 07:15 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Muuri View Post
How about playing the final match somewhere else than Canada for a change?
Fat chance of that happening...

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05-21-2010, 07:23 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Fat chance of that happening...
I think in time the final will be held in Europe. I'd wager they'll be faster then the IIHF was in hosting the World Championships in Canada, only took them 72 years.


Last edited by Wham City: 05-21-2010 at 10:25 AM.
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05-21-2010, 07:41 AM
  #63
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Here's an idea.

:Have country's bid to host the world Cup and award the one in 2011 to Slovakia
:Invite the top 32 teams in the world i know that the difference between the top 4 and bottom 4 is huge but this would be a great Idea for the global development of hockey.
: Play on International ice Using NHL rules.
:re-design the trophy and have a bronze medal game
:Automatically qualify the top 16 teams.
:Hold During august.
Rotate the host between Groups each year.(Ex 1 group could be something like Finland,Sweden Norway and Denmark. another could be Russia Germany Canada USA, Another Could be Slovakia Czech Rep)
hold it every 4 years execpt hold it in 2016 instead of 2015.
Make every nations best players available.

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05-21-2010, 09:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Muuri View Post
How about playing the final match somewhere else than Canada for a change?
How about no.
One of the reasons to having it in Canada was so it can be played on NHL size ice.

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05-21-2010, 09:32 AM
  #65
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Because its an NHL-glory tournament. Not an international competition.
"World" mean international

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05-21-2010, 11:07 AM
  #66
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I say if Russia has to play all its games in North America again, we shouldn't participate.

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05-21-2010, 11:27 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
I bet Nelonen would show it like last time in World Cup 2004. It was a good tournament I dont understand whine about it. Allways cool best on best hockey. Only thing that makes it a litle joke is because the ones who should be arranging the tournament, dont even themselves know if this tournament is going to happen... It allways is being held to randomly, it should be 2 years after olympics allways so there were best on best tournament every 2 years..

Wasnt it last time played on NHL size rink in Helsinki and everywhere other places too? Atleast i remember there was NHL refs with their NHL costumes. What sucks in it is the times, its like nonsense, Finland was in Finals last time against Canada, so I had to wake up wathing Teemu and the guys 04.00am midnight! They play the games in absolutely nonsense time. I really hadnt the true hockey athmosphere and feeling in that World Cup Final in god damn early morning..
Nah, they chuck every good sport Nelonen Sport Pro these days. No way would they show games on Nelonen Sport.

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05-21-2010, 11:28 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Drij View Post
How about no.
One of the reasons to having it in Canada was so it can be played on NHL size ice.
You do realize that rinks in Europe can easily be changed to NHL size?

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05-21-2010, 11:31 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
I think in time the final will be held in Europe. I'd wager they'll be faster then the IIHF was in hosting the World Championships in Canada, only took them 72 years.
That was because neither Canada or USA wanted to host it. The only reason it was held in Canada in 2008 was because of the IIHF centennial year.

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05-21-2010, 12:34 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
The Canada Cup was special in its time because the Olympics were not yet a best-on-best tournament. Now that the NHL is part of the Olympics, the World Cup is redundant. I'd be happy for Russia to win it of course, but it would be of lesser value than a World Championship gold medal. Naturally, Canadians would value it more given that World Cup is NHL-run.
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Originally Posted by ontheDB View Post
You'd value a WC gold over a World Cup gold ? Why's that ?
Because the World Cup is a random exhibition tournament held whenever it suits the NHL owners. I don't think any country other than Canada would lose any sleep about not winning it. For best-on-best play, the Olympics are enough.

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05-21-2010, 03:46 PM
  #71
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That was because neither Canada or USA wanted to host it. The only reason it was held in Canada in 2008 was because of the IIHF centennial year.
In the 1996 World Cup of Hockey 19 games were played, 6 were on European soil.

In the 2004 World Cup of Hockey 19 games were played and 8 were on European soil.

The World Cup is moving towards equal numbers of games for Europe and North America, and has been vastly more progressive on this issue then the IIHF vis. a vis. the World Championships.


Last edited by Wham City: 05-21-2010 at 03:54 PM.
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05-21-2010, 05:28 PM
  #72
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"World" mean international
Only in your imagination.

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05-21-2010, 05:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Krazy_Eyez View Post
Was there a country in 2004 who should have been there instead of any of the 8 participating countries?

Switzerland was ranked 9th by the IIHF, should they have been there instead of Germany who were ranked 8th?
Germany is in based on population, and hence, the revenue potential.

The so-called "World Cup" is about money, not talent.

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05-21-2010, 05:36 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by GavinD80 View Post
Germany is in based on population, and hence, the revenue potential.

The so-called "World Cup" is about money, not talent.
Everything is about money, the IIHF doesn't hold the World Championships for selfless reasons, they are trying to make money.

At the time of the 2004 World Cup the top eight ranked countries according to the IIHF were Canada, Russia, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic, Slovakia and USA.

This was a tournament of the eight best hockey country's in the world at the time in a best on best format. You can argue the pool of countries was too large or too small, but you can't argue this wasn't a legitimate tournament of the top eight countries in the world.

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05-21-2010, 05:41 PM
  #75
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It's kind of funny how people complain about the Olympics and the WC being held in the same year, then turn right around and want to play a meaningless "World" cup when we already have World Championships every year.

I won't complain about extra hockey, but it would be nice if people would make up their mind about the whole "should there be more than 1 international tournament a year?" issue.

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