HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

[rant] The rest of the world is going to get better

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-20-2010, 12:51 AM
  #1
Ilyeu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
[rant] The rest of the world is going to get better

This is a sort of rant of sorts. I need to express some thoughts, about other nations with respect to the very elite nations. I'm talking about Sweden, Canada, USA and Russia. (I'm not sure about the Czech Republic anymore, they've dropped in quality very quickly).

I like reading comments from people from many places, like IIHF's facebook, TSN (non canadians), cbc (non canadians), youtube, hfboards and so on and on, I like to get a feel for what they're thinking. I have a issue with some things people are saying on the IIHF facebook page especially since these are people who showing their identities so there is some truths to what they believe.

Ok, what is bothering me? The little nations fans are starting to bother me. We have people from Switizerland, Denmark, Latvia and so on, that say things like this:

"Canada and Russia are no longer a force"
"The rest of the world is catching up"
"Hockey is growing and the elite are going to be no more"
"[insert country] is going to get become unstoppable in the future"

my favorite:
"the swiss national league (I think) got as good as the NHL. They have developed their hockey in the last decade immensely! I must say, that the quality of the games got equal in the last years."

From my general knowledge the Swiss has grown immensely because of Canadian coaching, teaching with the youth, Canadian players and Canadian national team coaching influence. Now, the Swiss beating their chests like they're some kind of super power?

What about the Danes, they're getting good, but isn't it funny how Sweden is right next door. I'm sure the Swedes have influenced the Danes with their coaching and such.

What about Belarus? I'm sure the Russians had some influence over their style of play.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these points or give me an education.

The point I'm trying to say is, what is up with these lower nations disrespectful fire for the better teams. You know it's in bad taste in people's mouths, what kind of respect do you think to gain from being so arrogant when you haven't even proven yourself yet.

Ilyeu is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:07 AM
  #2
Ribban
Registered User
 
Ribban's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Personally, I think it's great that they celebrate their success and establish pride and faith in their programs/leagues. Sweden has "helped" (although I'm sure the coaches and players were paid well) both Denmark and Switzerland of sorts, but it is still the hokceymoms of Switzerland that got up early on the weekend to take their kiddos to the rink, bought the expensive gear, and paid the membership fees that allowed and made for the progress in Switzerland.

I'm not sure I understand what you would want from them other than their best game?

Ribban is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:11 AM
  #3
Que Sera Sera
Registered User
 
Que Sera Sera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,401
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Que Sera Sera
It's nice to see them excited but to a certain extent I agree with you. To say that the Swiss league is on par with the NHL is manifestly absurd.

Que Sera Sera is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:14 AM
  #4
Ilyeu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribban View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you would want from them other than their best game?
This isn't about the players, this is about the fans.

Ilyeu is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:20 AM
  #5
Ribban
Registered User
 
Ribban's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
This isn't about the players, this is about the fans.
Yeah, but fans are supposed to be one-eyed!
If that's what we are talking about, they are doing a remarkable job!

Ribban is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 02:19 AM
  #6
teme
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,133
vCash: 500
Well there is increased parity in hockey. You can actually see it in NHL too and it is not all salary cap. Players all over are just better trained, more skilled and above all teams are better coached, which makes talent level differences less important at the same that it is decreasing. The difference between say your average Swiss league and NHL player just keeps getting smaller, and more so for team performance on ice.

In international tournaments, all you really need to go far is a dedicated team sticking to their system, good goaltending and a great PP unit. Increasingly more nations can field that. Depth helps, but there are also tons of examples that it can be better to just have checkers in your checking lines rather than first line players converted to unfamiliar role.

teme is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 04:09 AM
  #7
zorz
Registered User
 
zorz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 3,982
vCash: 500
Nothing to discuss, Czech Republic will remain always above the others

zorz is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 04:49 AM
  #8
Quack
Registered User
 
Quack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,050
vCash: 500
Its really just an overreaction to the latest international tournament. The only way to really test a ranking in the world is in the olympics or a World championship with rosters close enough to that of an olympic one. If you look at any team besides Russia you notice that teams are missing more then just a few top players.

Quack is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 05:43 AM
  #9
RedLeader
Registered User
 
RedLeader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,429
vCash: 500
"The rest of the world is catching up" Well this one is true.. rest of the world is making progress. If they said they have caught up, that would be exaggerating.

I don't see the why you even care, fans of opposing teams will never give you proper respect and why should they grovel at the feet of the top4. In their shoes would you proclaim the greatness of Canada when some of their fans are talking about our Z team could beat your countries best even though their A,B,C teams has lost to Switzerland.

Every country has diehard fans who proclaim things that aren't truely objective. No reason for you to get ******** when you are on the recieving end.

RedLeader is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 06:59 AM
  #10
Hollywood Burrows
Registered User
 
Hollywood Burrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: EAST VANCOUVER
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,598
vCash: 500
Showing respect to your opponents is not really part of being a sports fan. I'm not really sure what you're expecting.

Anyways, there's no way more international parity can be anything but good for hockey.

Hollywood Burrows is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 07:19 AM
  #11
Acquizitor*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium
Country: Belgium
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
I think its safe to say "hahaha" to such comments, especially from "c" countries like Swiss, Denmark, Norway.
I think its also safe to say that Canada and Russia will continue their overall hockey domination, with Swedes, USA, and maybe the Finns and the Czech showing prime play too occasionally.

However, imo, Canada and Russia have the brightest stars of the game. And I dont see a single reason why this trend cant continue

Acquizitor* is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 10:16 AM
  #12
dfk711*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Atlanta
Country: Finland
Posts: 20,086
vCash: 500
I think you should add Finland to your list of elite nations, especially if you have USA on it

dfk711* is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 10:46 AM
  #13
Acquizitor*
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Belgium
Country: Belgium
Posts: 195
vCash: 500
sure, Finland is an elite nation, but not anywhere near the "big two".

Acquizitor* is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 11:29 AM
  #14
JackSlater
Registered User
 
JackSlater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,902
vCash: 500
Countries like Switzerland and Denmark are certainly improving relative to the traditional hockey nations. That doesn't really mean all that much for now though, since the gap is so massive. It's easy to improve yourself as a hockey nation when you have basically no great players and very little depth. If they continue to improve at the same level relative to the big nations for several years, then that will be something of note, and also something that would be good for hockey.

As things stand now, this is how I see it with regard to depth of quality players
Canada

Russia,Sweden,USA

Czech Republic, Finland,
Slovakia

Switzerland

The only change in this order in recent years is that Czech Republic and Slovakia have fallen back while Switzerland has moved up slightly. Regarding the OP, I'm not quite sure that something like a Canadian influence on Swiss hockey or Swedish influence on Danish hockey takes anything away from their improvements. Improvement is improvement, regardless of why it's happened... and if fans from that country are overblowing it.

JackSlater is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 11:55 AM
  #15
Like Wall
I am Registered User
 
Like Wall's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Letu zeme
Country: Latvia
Posts: 2,540
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
The little nations fans are starting to bother me. We have people from Switizerland, Denmark, Latvia and so on, that say things like this:

"Canada and Russia are no longer a force"
"The rest of the world is catching up"
"Hockey is growing and the elite are going to be no more"
"[insert country] is going to get become unstoppable in the future"
You'll never hear that from me. The Swiss team is a force to reckon with, so are ze Germanz. But smaller nations will have their ups and downs, without any guaranty for stability every single year.

Like Wall is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:01 PM
  #16
slovakiasnextone
Registered User
 
slovakiasnextone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Slovakia
Country: Slovakia
Posts: 5,166
vCash: 500
They can be quite annoying sometimes. Maybe they can stop with all this Switzerland is the next big nation now that the Czechs have made it to the semifinals with their C-D selection. I know that the Swiss are missing players as well, however the Czechs are missing around 18 (!) 25 years old and younger players who´ve played at least one NHL game this year. Let´s not even talk about the over 25 years old guys.

slovakiasnextone is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 01:56 PM
  #17
Oyabun
Registered User
 
Oyabun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Sweden
Posts: 773
vCash: 500
Yesterday and today, the pre-game comment section in Swedish tabloids was full of comments by Danes "In 10 years we will be better than you" and stuff.

But what about the positive effect, Bäckman (Danish coach) was interviewed before the game and they asked about how big the game was for Denmark "I have heard that this match is expected to be viewed by around 600 000 danes, an average match has in the past had 50 000 viewers" he said. I haven't got a clue myself how many people tuned in but if he was in the ballpark then great for hockey and we will have to live with some people from minor nations having their heads in the clouds for a while.

And quite frankly, we could just as easily find equally ******** comments on Youtube by Americans, Canadians, Swedes etc.

Oyabun is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 02:00 PM
  #18
Ilyeu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfk711 View Post
I think you should add Finland to your list of elite nations, especially if you have USA on it
Look http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...3&postcount=61
My top four in this thread is based on that Finland hasn't won any important championship since 1995, it's focuses more on current champions.

Quote:
Yesterday and today, the pre-game comment section in Swedish tabloids was full of comments by Danes "In 10 years we will be better than you" and stuff.
See, I'm right about this one.

Quote:
And quite frankly, we could just as easily find equally ******** comments on Youtube by Americans, Canadians, Swedes etc.
Youtube anyone can say anything. But most of these comments were coming from people who were expressing their real life statements with their real life identities.


Last edited by Ilyeu: 05-20-2010 at 02:06 PM.
Ilyeu is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 02:03 PM
  #19
danishh
Registered User
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YOW
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,243
vCash: 50
my take is that the big 4 will continue to exist for the forseeable future (assuming of course that sweden's new generation comes in as planned, but so far so good).

After that, there may not be that much separation.
- Finland's old generation is retiring. The new generation is not as good.
- Same deal with the czech republic
- Slovakia should last decently for another 4 year cycle with stars like chara and hossa still there, but there is a lack of young slovak talent - much more than the above two teams. Once this generation is done (first wave probably played their last tournament in vancouver), slovak hockey may be in trouble, depending only on a goalie.
- Switzerland, Germany and Denmark are producing more nhl draftees per year now. While not exact in any way, it is a decent indicator of the future strength of the top level mens team.


as for factors that have grown the sport in these countries:
- Switzerland has a massive canadian influence. over a quarter of their national team is canadian born, a large number of swiss league players are still canadian or canadian-born, and many coaches are canadian. Without the canadian influx, swiss hockey is nowhere close to where it is.

- i dont know much about denmark's program, but i believe top prospects often find their way to the SEL to develop. That is how the national team is being developed.

- Germany also has canadian influence, but to a much lower extent than in switzerland. Not exactly sure what has driven the growth there. Worth noting that many top german prospects make their way over to the CHL now.

danishh is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 04:20 PM
  #20
Devils Mike*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 6,988
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Devils Mike*
I guess it's too radical to say that Europe is getting better, like that bunch of Swiss players that play in a so called "obsolete league" yet somehow played the best team in the world in the greatest league of them all and lost in a shootout...

Devils Mike* is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 04:24 PM
  #21
Dolemite
The one...the only..
 
Dolemite's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington DC
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 39,470
vCash: 500
If the Olympic Tournament taught us anything is that many of the Countries took a HUGE step forward with their programs against the world's best.

__________________
http://halfboards.com/
Follow along on Twitter: http://twitter.com/azvibesports
Dolemite is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 04:33 PM
  #22
Fictional Realism
What is going on?
 
Fictional Realism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,043
vCash: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
- Switzerland has a massive canadian influence. over a quarter of their national team is canadian born, a large number of swiss league players are still canadian or canadian-born, and many coaches are canadian. Without the canadian influx, swiss hockey is nowhere close to where it is.
This.

Switzerland basically imported Canadian hockey.

Fictional Realism is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 05:13 PM
  #23
Nakawick
Registered User
 
Nakawick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Range
Posts: 4,254
vCash: 14750
I am happy to see that Germany will play for a medal. I really hope that this tournament and result will help hockey in Germany. IMO, they have the best chance to become an "elite" hockey nation with their population. Switzerland has the tools already in place and will continue to get better. Hopefully Demark will continue to improve and countries Belarus, Norway and Latvia will keep improving as well and Finalnd, Czech Repulic and Slovakia will find their next generation of stars.

Nakawick is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 05:18 PM
  #24
danishh
Registered User
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: YOW
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,243
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
This.

Switzerland basically imported Canadian hockey.
i think putting it like that makes it a bit belittling. Canadian players and coaches have greatly helped swiss hockey, but all of the good young players are still swiss-born.

danishh is offline  
Old
05-20-2010, 05:19 PM
  #25
RandV
It's a wolf v2.0
 
RandV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,641
vCash: 50
Comments like these aren't much different than stuff we see on the regular NHL board, and have the same root problem. People make opinions based on what they see and stick to it, but don't take into account their ability to accurately interpret what they see, regardless of overall inteligence or hockey knowledge.

RandV is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.