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Old
05-15-2010, 10:51 AM
  #1
North Metro Peewees
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Worst DR moves

I compiled a list of the worst moves made by Doug Risebrough when he was Wild GM. These are the deals that I remembered off the top of my head; I know there were many others and this doesn't even go into his track record for drafting.

9) Trading a 3rd rounder to move up and take Tyler Cuma.

8) Trading a 3rd rounder to move up and take Colton Gillies (who they knew was going to be a 3rd liner at best).

7) Not signing Demitra as a UFA in the summer of 2005 and then trading a 1st rounder and Patrick O'Sullivan for him 12 months later.

6) Giving PMB over $4m/yr. when he had been so up and down.

5) Waiting to sign Backstrom until he was close to UFA status and therefore commanding $6m.

4) Not trying to sign Rolston until after the 2008 season.

3) Allowing James Sheppard to play 160 games his first two seasons; therefore; making it necessary to place him on waivers to send him to Houston.

2) Not claiming Daniel Briere when he was waived by the Coyotes and claimed by Buffalo. (I remember DR saying at the time he wasn't better than what we already had).

1) Not dealing Marian Gaborik in the summer of 2008 immediately when he rejected a 10yr/$75m contract and his value was still high.

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05-15-2010, 01:13 PM
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State of Hockey
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#8: It was a 2nd-rounder, and Gillies was not a 3rd-rounder at best at the draft (and still isn't). We picked him where he was expected to go. The 2nd-rounder was the mistake, not Gillies.

#7: Demitra had zero interest of signing here, and the trade to get him was probably DR's best move ever.

#6: The alternative was trading him, not giving him less money.

#5: No chance that Backstrom gets less than 5 million no matter when he was signed.

#4: Considering that Rolston was starting to decline and now is a huge mistake for New Jersey, that was a great move.

#1: Teams can't just trade away expensive stars in mid-summer. Teams don't have the room to make a big move. You have to wait till the season is underway, like what Atlanta did with Kovalchuk. The whole Gaborik situation turned out to be a "mistake" primarily because of Marian Gaborik, not Risebrough.



There's a couple other mistakes I could add, but the bottom line is that Risebrough didn't make many bad moves. His problem was that he didn't make many great moves.

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05-15-2010, 03:13 PM
  #3
ChexLeMeneux
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Trading a 5th round pick for Chris Simon. It's not so bad he gave up the 5th rounder for Simon it's the fact that he did nothing else to help the team going into the playoffs.

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05-15-2010, 04:00 PM
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GopherState
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I'd put #3 more on Lemaire than Risebrough because that's a coaching decision. But either way, it's still a disappointment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
There's a couple other mistakes I could add, but the bottom line is that Risebrough didn't make many bad moves. His problem was that he didn't make many great moves.
That's the key and what separates the Wild from the high-end teams. Well that and competent drafting.

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Originally Posted by DRudder View Post
Trading a 5th round pick for Chris Simon. It's not so bad he gave up the 5th rounder for Simon it's the fact that he did nothing else to help the team going into the playoffs.
Welcome!

Technically that was a sixth-round pick, but it still was a head-scratcher and I'd put it up on my board.

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05-15-2010, 04:07 PM
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9) Trading a 3rd rounder to move up and take Tyler Cuma.
Tyler Cuma was considered a top-15 prospect by many. If not for the knee injury nobody would be complaining at this point.

8) Trading a 3rd rounder to move up and take Colton Gillies (who they knew was going to be a 3rd liner at best).
Like the other guy said, it was a 2nd rounder(who turned out to be Eric Tangradi, currently the best prospect among the 3 picks involved), and some people thought Gillies had top-6 upside. Our staff put a premium on big forwards who had solid skating(Burns and Kassian are perfect examples). The trade-up was bad, but the player wasn't terrible, just mismanaged. He'll get his career back on track.

7) Not signing Demitra as a UFA in the summer of 2005 and then trading a 1st rounder and Patrick O'Sullivan for him 12 months later.
Demitra wasn't interested in signing with the Wild in 05, and the 06 trade was a huge step forward for the organization. The worst decision with Demitra was DR running him out of town.

6) Giving PMB over $4m/yr. when he had been so up and down.
Was a panic move by a terrible GM. He thought Rolston was going to come back, and when he didn't he wanted to ensure his undersized perimeter playmaker wasn't going to be going anywhere, as he could have after his RFA arbitration years.

5) Waiting to sign Backstrom until he was close to UFA status and therefore commanding $6m.
Another panic move by a terrible GM. Backstrom was putting up Vezina numbers, but the Wild players played excellently defensively in front of him. I blame Leipold for allowing this deal to go through.

4) Not trying to sign Rolston until after the 2008 season.
He did, just wasn't giving him 5.5M per. One of DR's best moves ever.

3) Allowing James Sheppard to play 160 games his first two seasons; therefore; making it necessary to place him on waivers to send him to Houston.
Well, if we would have put Matt Foy on waivers instead of Dominic Moore.... If Wes Walz didn't quit 11 games into the season....

2) Not claiming Daniel Briere when he was waived by the Coyotes and claimed by Buffalo. (I remember DR saying at the time he wasn't better than what we already had).
So what would have happened? You think Danielle would have had success in Lemaire's system? He'd be no better than Bouchard, forced out to wing.

1) Not dealing Marian Gaborik in the summer of 2008 immediately when he rejected a 10yr/$75m contract and his value was still high.
In DR's mind he had a playoff team and thought it would keep Gaborik with the team. Waddell also said the best offers he for Hossa were at the deadline, which unfortunately Gaborik was injured at.


Drafting Thelen is right up there with the worst moves. Waiving Moore, drafting Kassian/Fiala, the list goes on and on.

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05-15-2010, 04:20 PM
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GopherState
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I think the reason people complain about Cuma is the fact that they paid a hefty sum to move up one spot in the draft when there was a) still the chance he would fall past New Jersey and b) a couple quality players still on the board. The injuries don't help quiet the crowd, but there are other reasons to dislike the selection even if Cuma was playing like a top-fifteen pick.

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05-15-2010, 04:52 PM
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And if I'm going with a top ten list, it would be:
1. Drafting Thelen/essentially missing on the entire 2004 draft as we've been paying for that over the last five years.

2. Letting Brunette go after the lockout.

3. The handling Marian Gaborik as an asset. This includes both contract fiascos and not getting anything for him in the end. Sure he was hurt, but letting the best player in team history walk away for nothing stings.

4. Drafting Sheppard basically due to him being the worst player of the first fifteen picks.

5. Drafting Pouliot/Kassian in 2005. Missing on a top-five pick is a giant no-no and although we got Latendresse back for Pouliot, there's still a sense of disappointment with that pick. And don't even get me started on drafting an enforcer in the second.

6. The entire 2008 off-season, which includes the Zidlicky trade, Rolston and Demitra leaving, the Bouchard signing, buying out Parrish, signing Nolan to a two-year deal and signing Miettenen to be a top-six guy instead. Although there are some moves that I personally like, pretty much everything here can be dissected and dismissed as a bad move.

7. Only getting Chris Simon for the 2008 playoff run when it clear that was the year to go deep and the lineup already had Fedoruk and Boogaard.

8. Moving up one spot and giving up a third round pick in the process to take Tyler Cuma when there were still a couple highly-regarded players (Tedenby, Ennis and John Carlson) on the board.

9. Colton Gillies, which includes giving up a second to move up three spots (and seeing that second become Eric Tangardi) and just mishandling his development.

10. Not managing expectations correctly.

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05-15-2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
I think the reason people complain about Cuma is the fact that they paid a hefty sum to move up one spot in the draft when there was a) still the chance he would fall past New Jersey and b) a couple quality players still on the board. The injuries don't help quiet the crowd, but there are other reasons to dislike the selection even if Cuma was playing like a top-fifteen pick.
3rd round picks aren't a "hefty" sum. Also factor this into the equation -> NJ was initially picking at 21, traded to 23 with Washington acquiring a 2nd. Whats to say at 21 we contacted NJ, saying we were offering a 3rd to move up to take Cuma(if talks are serious, teams do inquire who the moving up team is taking). Now at 23, NJ knows who we want, and knew what we were offering just 2 picks ago. Its easy to say now that Carlson would have been better, but many had Cuma 10 spots ahead of Carlson, and at that time it was as evident we needed a d-man as today is evident we need a forward.

To your other post, I'd rather have Sheppard than Helenius, and Tlusty is a wash. Pouliot was ranked #2, so alot of people liked him that much. Kassian was not much different than Lucic in his draft year, so the upside is SOMETIMES there.

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05-15-2010, 05:08 PM
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GopherState
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At the time, I was very high on Carlson and thought he was greatly undervalued. And to be fair, I'm biased because I was pissed when we moved up and even more pissed when it wasn't for him. But either way, for a team which had issues with drafting and an uncertain future with players (as it was at the time), there's no reason to give up that sort of premium (especially when you have nothing in the pipeline and few draft picks - hell last year's third round pick is our third-best prospect) to move up one slot. Any way you shake it, Lou played Risebrough like a fool.

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05-15-2010, 05:16 PM
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saywut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
At the time, I was very high on Carlson and thought he was greatly undervalued. And to be fair, I'm biased because I was pissed when we moved up and even more pissed when it wasn't for him. But either way, for a team which had issues with drafting and an uncertain future with players (as it was at the time), there's no reason to give up that sort of premium (especially when you have nothing in the pipeline and few draft picks) to move up one slot. Any way you shake it, Lou played Risebrough like a fool.
Well should that come as a surprise to anyone? I'm against DR more than most(considering I live in Calgary), but I don't feel the Cuma move-up was a terrible move at the time. Drafting Pouliot was justified. In reality, Burns was the biggest reach we've made, and he busted as a forward, the position he was intended to play. Anyways, the drafts should be better now that TT is gone. Leddy was clearly a miss if we had to add him to KJ to get Barker.

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05-15-2010, 05:33 PM
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GopherState
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No it's not a surprise to anyone and that's why I put it as part of the top ten worst DR moves. It was a gamble and it wasn't a good one. Thankfully there's still time for it to pay off, but in 2010 I see it as the move of a desperate man; especially after it was apparent the 2004 draft class was a bust and moves needed to be made to cover it up.

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05-15-2010, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
#8: It was a 2nd-rounder, and Gillies was not a 3rd-rounder at best at the draft (and still isn't). We picked him where he was expected to go. The 2nd-rounder was the mistake, not Gillies.

#7: Demitra had zero interest of signing here, and the trade to get him was probably DR's best move ever.

#6: The alternative was trading him, not giving him less money.

#5: No chance that Backstrom gets less than 5 million no matter when he was signed.

#4: Considering that Rolston was starting to decline and now is a huge mistake for New Jersey, that was a great move.

#1: Teams can't just trade away expensive stars in mid-summer. Teams don't have the room to make a big move. You have to wait till the season is underway, like what Atlanta did with Kovalchuk. The whole Gaborik situation turned out to be a "mistake" primarily because of Marian Gaborik, not Risebrough.



There's a couple other mistakes I could add, but the bottom line is that Risebrough didn't make many bad moves. His problem was that he didn't make many great moves.
well said. He was blah, and produced a blah team that was lucky to make it deep one year. An err on the side of caution guy. the demitra trade was out of character, and really stands out. burns deal was absolutely phenomenal if you consider how well burns was doing at the time.

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05-16-2010, 09:20 AM
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What about Michalek for Westrum and Wood?

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05-16-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
#8: It was a 2nd-rounder, and Gillies was not a 3rd-rounder at best at the draft (and still isn't). We picked him where he was expected to go. The 2nd-rounder was the mistake, not Gillies.

#7: Demitra had zero interest of signing here, and the trade to get him was probably DR's best move ever.

#6: The alternative was trading him, not giving him less money.

#5: No chance that Backstrom gets less than 5 million no matter when he was signed.

#4: Considering that Rolston was starting to decline and now is a huge mistake for New Jersey, that was a great move.

#1: Teams can't just trade away expensive stars in mid-summer. Teams don't have the room to make a big move. You have to wait till the season is underway, like what Atlanta did with Kovalchuk. The whole Gaborik situation turned out to be a "mistake" primarily because of Marian Gaborik, not Risebrough.



There's a couple other mistakes I could add, but the bottom line is that Risebrough didn't make many bad moves. His problem was that he didn't make many great moves.
#7-Demitra may or may not have been interested in signing here although I believe DR's biggest mistake coming out of the lockout year was not going into the UFA market at all and wanting to see what he had within. That was a lost year.

#6-Then trade him; cap space is a valuable commodity in the new NHL.

#5-Okay, if you could have signed him for $5m vs. $6 at least his contract is movable and takes up less cap space.

#4-Considering NJ doubled what Rolston thought he was going to get anyway I would say if the Wild could have gotten him for 3 yrs/$10m they would have gotten fair value.

#1-When you consider the fact they waited until late August to open talks which should have started immediately on July 1st; yes they did screw that up. If you begin talks at the start of the UFA frenzy teams that want to add scoring may have been willing to trade assets if they were shut out. Either way when an often injured scorer turns down one of the biggest contracts in hockey you go to plan B immediately.

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05-16-2010, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
What about Michalek for Westrum and Wood?
Great one; I forgot about this one.

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05-16-2010, 06:08 PM
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was not a fan of the Simon trade at all! Along with getting Sean Hill that year too. But the reasoning behind it was DR believed the reason the team couldn't beat Anaheim was just the brute power of the Ducks over the Wild. We were overpowered and he set out to get some power hitters to try to level the score if he could. It incredibly back fired as we all saw, and most of knew it was going to.

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05-16-2010, 09:09 PM
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to me is the the dealing of the draft picks. Even with as poor a draft record as the DR regime had, just by sheer number they would have hit on someone who could have contributed at the NHL level.

So, that being said, having draft picks could have opened up doors as far as trades, etc.

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05-17-2010, 10:17 AM
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Definitely drafting Gillies with the 1st and 2nd rounders. We could have gotten two really solid players instead of one AHL'er.

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05-18-2010, 05:23 PM
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Using 2004 as our rebuild year /facepalm

Seriously, you pay scouts to notice trends and players coming out. Couldn't they uh project...2004 as a pretty bad draft year?

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05-25-2010, 01:23 PM
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i still cant believe the pouliot pick.i was actually screaming at the tv when they made it. i would have much rather had the decent player the kings snagged

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