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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Television ratings around the world

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Old
05-21-2010, 03:10 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Kameli View Post
Well as Finland hosted womens European Championships last year I guess everyone here knows many names and Finnish tv showed all matches live so no need to downgrade womens game, soccer is just so dominant in Europe. Btw. Was a great event here last summer.
Oh, allrgiht... Well i didint even know about those Championships, but I was at my army service those days thought... I dont know any Women football players name in the world, but I dont care about football at all for real myself. In europe it really is domestic sport anyway.

But no one talks here in Finland about football if you compare to Hockey. But it is second biggest maybe, im not sure because Formula 1 (specially if Räikkönen makes a comeback) and Ski Jumping may be bigger than football.

Main reason to football is that "low" sport in Finland is maybe the league what is just horrible. Only player I know from the league is Litmanen.

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05-21-2010, 03:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JVR View Post
Imo women's socer is much closer in quality to men's soccer then women's hockey
to men's hockey.

That's true. And secondly womens soccer isnt only about two teams that can win the title as in hockey with USA and Canada. There are lot of teams that can go all the way, that being natural as soccer is so big worldwide. And Finland also doing pretty good in womens game

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05-21-2010, 03:16 PM
  #53
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I still wish as many people would have watched the hockey game yesterday but still, 1.600.000 people watching hockey in Germany is 1.590.000 more than usually do.

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05-21-2010, 03:16 PM
  #54
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But no one talks here in Finland about football if you compare to Hockey. But it is second biggest maybe.
Haha You being quite a funny guy obviously. Football being in national level at least as popular as hockey. In club level same thing. Try to imagine what happens when Finland gets to European championships or Worlds.

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05-21-2010, 03:23 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kameli View Post
Haha You being quite a funny guy obviously. Football being in national level at least as popular as hockey. In club level same thing. Try to imagine what happens when Finland gets to European championships or Worlds.
Lol, no its not. National level it is pretty popular, but club level? You cant chat about it on same day with hockey league.. I wouldnt like to say, that no one gives a ****, it aint true, but its like soooo much less people goes to the games or watches them from tv. And i remember when it was in news that wievers average in league games was about ~1000 wievers.. Hockey average was about ~5000, but many teams doesnt even have a arena that takes 5000 people in, example KalPa's games were allmost everyone sold out. Jokerits average was ~8000. Dont try to lie that we would be a football country as we really aint.

You're right that it would maybe come popular if we would get in to european or world championships. And lets not start that fight football against hockey again, i've seen it on some crappy, very crappy boards (mtv3 kommentit) and i just haveto laugh how ****ing stupid football fans can get, and hockey fans too, when it goes to that.

Some football fans haveto allways diss hockey, what just shows that hockey is domestic sport. Hockey fans usually dont haveto start dissing everything that is about football and hockey fans can watch the football world cup too.


Last edited by QnebO: 05-21-2010 at 03:34 PM.
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Old
05-21-2010, 03:34 PM
  #56
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Yeah, lets not start arguing, but dont downgrade football in Finland that much. Never been in Turku derby? last year there were over 9000 attendance, many games draw good attendances at least in Finnish level. I could also start saying how Jokerit announce every game 7500 when there is really 2500-4000 in hockey league games as I watched many of their games past many seasons. Lets stop the ot here...

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05-21-2010, 03:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kameli View Post
Yeah, lets not start arguing, but dont downgrade football in Finland that much. Never been in Turku derby? last year there were over 9000 attendance, many games draw good attendances at least in Finnish level. I could also start saying how Jokerit announce every game 7500 when there is really 2500-4000 in hockey league games as I watched many of their games past many seasons. Lets stop the ot here...
There shouldnt be in problem in Finland anway. Hockey is played in winter, football in summer. Same fans can go for both sports and have a good sport all seasong long so why to even battle against each other. Nice to see that football has a big derby too, Hockey Helsinki derby allways gets hartwall arena outsold (13900). For me, it ever hasnt even been clear why should these sports fight each other, based on that fact football they play summer and hockey the winter.. But got to say if someone "challenges" me on fight between these sports and is agressive, i'll take part myself too

Allright OT does stop for me now, if there is no provocation in your next message Answer if you will.

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05-21-2010, 03:54 PM
  #58
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Sweden vs France 759'000
Sweden vs Czech Rep 849'000
Sweden vs Canada 1'038'000
Sweden vs Norway 825'000

Population: 9.3M

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05-21-2010, 03:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
Anyone who feels the need to proclaim that they don't care, are obviously lying..
Um, no. I don't give a **** about this tournament, and I won't until it is the best vs. the best. The fact that it isn't even broadcasted in the US says a lot about how much we care.

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Old
05-21-2010, 04:25 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Sergei Makarov View Post
BTW, If Canada doesn't want to take part in international competitions, good riddance. We don't need its wrestlers.
Russia didn't seem to have fun being "wrestled" into submission at the Olympics. That Olympic drought for Russia is getting pretty long, isn't it? See you in Sochi where it counts.

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Old
05-21-2010, 04:26 PM
  #61
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Im somehow getting too much of this "i dont care"-attitude. Its like when i was 15, i was like I dont care for allmost everything Let the NA send their surfer groups to lose in the WHC and tell everyone that they dont give a shaiche, if thats how they want to represent themselves in Europe. Everyone allready knows you dont care about WHC and prolly anything but your own business and think others or foreign business sucks, its cool, that really seems to be the main attitude in NA.. Only thing i wish for people that doesnt care at all, why they haveto spread that **** here, if they dont care at all why then telling for everyone that they dont care. I dont and rest of world besides NA really dont care for american football and im not calling that league a crappie.. Or if someone is here is following that thing and talking about it, i wont usually go to tell him that the sport sucks ass and doesnt matter at all. Just let the fans enjoy it.

Why so much non-carers are here in WHC area, shouldn't they be in NHL area.

The point:
If you dont care in NA, it doesnt take the fun away from the fans. Are you sad all the time because rest of world besides NA doesnt give a damn about american football? I bet you arent so think about it.

I bet if someone answers to this its like:
"Yeah but I still dont care!! YEAHH \../ *Now they must think that they suck and start to only watch NHL*"


Last edited by QnebO: 05-21-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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Old
05-21-2010, 04:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Um, no. I don't give a **** about this tournament, and I won't until it is the best vs. the best. The fact that it isn't even broadcasted in the US says a lot about how much we care.
so you dont care about world juniors either?

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05-21-2010, 04:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by snipethesniper View Post
so you dont care about world juniors either?
I bet they do because it impacts on NHL draft.. Thats why they think its cool.

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05-21-2010, 04:43 PM
  #64
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Um, no. I don't give a **** about this tournament, and I won't until it is the best vs. the best. The fact that it isn't even broadcasted in the US says a lot about how much we care.

You didn't get his post.

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05-21-2010, 04:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by snipethesniper View Post
so you dont care about world juniors either?
I keep seeing this argument being brought up as a retort as if it actually has some merit...

The World Junior Championship is not a tournament based around older established professionals, it focuses more on the future of the game and showcases many of the up and coming stars. It acts as a good judge of how well the competing countries' hockey development programs are faring in comparison with each other. These development programs are important as they act as the foundation generations of players to come are built upon. Also, many NHL teams have highly regarded prospects competing in the tournament and for many it's the only chance to see them compete on TV. And last and most importantly, it's a more raw form of hockey as the players are still young and learning the intricacies of the sport while possessing a great amount of skill. Tempers flare and wild plays happen with more frequency than in the pro tournaments.

The WJC is a whole other beast than the WC, Olympics and World Cup. It's not a best on best and isn't viewed that way. The only way it's viewed is as a competition between each country's youth development programs and in that regard, it's by far the best of its ilk -- contrarily the WC is not. By no means is it in direct competition with any of those aforementioned tournaments. Just let it go...


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05-21-2010, 05:14 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
Why are many people so buttsore that the US and Canada don't care about a "World" championship tournament that doesn't boast the best players in the world (including the European countries)?

We have our own little tournament here. It's an 82 game round-robin with a 4 round elimination series. It goes on for about 9 months, and at the end of it, a champion is crowned. The best players in the World participate in this event.

This tournament is not important to us. It never has been (except during the lockout and during the Cold War). We have our own thing going on here which we care more about a lot more. We are just as passionate and patriotic as you. We love international events, including the Olympics and WJC which we fully support and participate in.

Chalk it up to cultural differences and call it a day.


Get over it.
So you've never watched any hockey besides the NHL and the Olympics since you can't be bothered to watch any hockey that doesn't have all the best players participating?

Weird.

I grew up on minor league hockey so I don't really give two ****s if the best players are there or not.

Hockey is hockey.

Also, considering I can hardly afford NHL games and definitely can't afford Olympic games I would go crazy if I was like you and could only be bothered to watch the best. I guess I'm too big of a hockey fan to be that picky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KesselySnipes View Post
I keep seeing this argument being brought up as a retort as if it actually has some merit...

The World Junior Championship is not a tournament based around older established professionals, it focuses more on the future of the game and showcases many of the up and coming stars. It acts as a good judge of how well the competing countries' hockey development programs are faring in comparison with each other. These development programs are important as they act as the foundation generations of players to come are built upon. Also, many NHL teams have highly regarded prospects competing in the tournament and for many it's the only chance to see them compete on TV. And last and most importantly, it's a more raw form of hockey as the players are still young and learning the intricacies of the sport while possessing a great amount of skill. Tempers flare and wild plays happen with more frequency than in the pro tournaments.

The WJC is a whole other beast than the WC, Olympics and World Cup. It's not a best on best and isn't viewed that way. The only way it's viewed is as a competition between each country's youth development programs and in that regard, it's by far the best of its ilk -- contrarily the WC is not. By no means is it in direct competition with any of those aforementioned tournaments. Just let it go...
What do you think the WC is for? Development. No different than its Junior-based counterpart.

Just because there is an age difference doesn't mean the two levels of World Championships are somehow different.

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Old
05-21-2010, 05:40 PM
  #67
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About the women's game ratings, the women's game was on ZDF, one of the main state-run networks, the hockey game was on Sport1, a cable sports network. The former could air a still picture of a fridge for two hours in primetime and a million old people would tune in out of habit, the latter doesn't usually get more than 2 million viewers even when they show UEFA Cup football simply because it is way back on many people's remote controls.

The fact the women's final was aired on ZDF is down mostly to political pressures. Most Germans couldn't name a lot of hockey players, but I doubt most could name anyone playing for Turbine Potsdam either (I can't and I am pretty familiar with Potsdam and don't live too far away from it).

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05-21-2010, 06:27 PM
  #68
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What do you think the WC is for? Development. No different than its Junior-based counterpart.

Just because there is an age difference doesn't mean the two levels of World Championships are somehow different.
You completely missed my point. Player development and its importance is much different when it comes to players under 20. How many CHL/NAHL etc. players are there in the World Championships again? NHL prospects? Draft eligible players? Players on HF's top prospects list? Not many. The World Juniors is the only time to see players exclusively that age compete against each other televised and that's what makes it significant. It's a far better judge of the future of hockey than the World Championships especially when you consider that dinosaurs such as Jagr and Fedorov still occupy roster spots. The competition is much different at that age and a huge hockey lover like yourself should know this. Comparing the World Championships to The World Juniors is just plain dumb.

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05-21-2010, 07:36 PM
  #69
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So you've never watched any hockey besides the NHL and the Olympics since you can't be bothered to watch any hockey that doesn't have all the best players participating?

Weird.

I grew up on minor league hockey so I don't really give two ****s if the best players are there or not.

Hockey is hockey.

Also, considering I can hardly afford NHL games and definitely can't afford Olympic games I would go crazy if I was like you and could only be bothered to watch the best. I guess I'm too big of a hockey fan to be that picky.

Jump to conclusions much?

Just because other tournaments or leagues don't have the best players in the world doesn't mean I don't watch them, but when there are 2 tournaments going on at the same time, I am forced to watch one over the other and in my case, and most people's cases on this side of the water, the NHL prevails... ESPECIALLY when MY team is making a run for the Cup thank you very much.

But I like what you did there, assuming I'm not a hockey fan because I don't give 2 ***** about a "world championship" that doesn't have the best players in the world participating in them, including those players of the European nations. When I watch the CHL, AHL or NCAA, I don't assume the best in the world are going to be in it because those leagues aren't boasting such a title, are they?

If it was on at another time of the year, or didn't overlap the Olympics, I would watch it. I watch college hockey and watched CHL when I could. I'll also watch a bit of the Memorial Cup.

The fact that you can't wrap your mind around the fact that culturally, the World Championships have never really been relevant except for a few times in the last century to Canadians and Americans is mind boggling.

But since you enjoy it, all the power to you. I hope I'm not preventing you from watching it in any way shape or form.

It's no real shocker that the Stanley Cup is eons more important to North Americans than Europeans. Which is why it boggles my mind that come this time of year, people such as yourself and from across the pond seem to come to this revelation that everyone should be involved in this tournament when they fully acknowledge in the past that to North Americans, the WC have never been a big part of our "hockey culture"

As far as most of us go, WE KNOW FULL WELL THE BEST don't play in this tournament. I believe the Olympics settled that score for us a few months ago. I don't need to watch another World Championship tournament when we JUST had one with higher stakes, a larger platform and better players across the board.

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Old
05-22-2010, 03:45 AM
  #70
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Um, no. I don't give a **** about this tournament, and I won't until it is the best vs. the best. The fact that it isn't even broadcasted in the US says a lot about how much we care.
You obviously cared enough to visit the WC forum, and click some obscure thread in it. Then cared enough to make sure everyone else knows how little you care about it...

Which is my point, people who really don't care never watches the games, reads or even thinks about it. Even less, thinks about how others should know how you think about it. So obviously you do care, it might not be as much as for a best on best tournament. But saying you don't care at all is simply what I said, a lie.

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05-22-2010, 04:21 AM
  #71
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You obviously cared enough to visit the WC forum, and click some obscure thread in it. Then cared enough to make sure everyone else knows how little you care about it...

Which is my point, people who really don't care never watches the games, reads or even thinks about it. Even less, thinks about how others should know how you think about it. So obviously you do care, it might not be as much as for a best on best tournament. But saying you don't care at all is simply what I said, a lie.
You're really grasping at straws here and it's kind of sad. But if you would, please let me know how much I care. Because I'm not sure now and I need some help. How much caring do I have compared to the Olympics? WJC? Spengler Cup? Leafs Preseason? NHL Draft? Under 18? Under 17? Womans World Championship?
Since you have it down that we North Americans are so concerned about this tournament because we read these threads, then please enlighten me on how much is the proper amount of caring.


The players who are there care. No question. Hockey Canada cares. Some fans even care a lot. Most aren't concerned at all.
Canada had enough talent to do better than it did. For whatever reason (and since I didn't watch a single minute, I have no idea why) they didn't. For me, once we're heading into May and June, and my Leafs team is out of the playoffs, I tend to lose some interest. These championships where hundreds of players have chosen to decline playing in just don't create much interest for me. If Canada was doing well, there would probably be more media coverage and I would probably follow closer. But neither has happened and so I just don't care....very much.

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05-22-2010, 04:46 AM
  #72
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You completely missed my point. Player development and its importance is much different when it comes to players under 20. How many CHL/NAHL etc. players are there in the World Championships again? NHL prospects? Draft eligible players? Players on HF's top prospects list? Not many. The World Juniors is the only time to see players exclusively that age compete against each other televised and that's what makes it significant. It's a far better judge of the future of hockey than the World Championships especially when you consider that dinosaurs such as Jagr and Fedorov still occupy roster spots. The competition is much different at that age and a huge hockey lover like yourself should know this. Comparing the World Championships to The World Juniors is just plain dumb.
You seem to think players stop developing after they get drafted for some reason.

There are just as many players in the SeniorWC, if not more, that could be on NHL rosters next year as there are in the JuniorWC. So the "getting a glimpse of future NHL talent" argument doesn't hold much water for me.

If those Junior players are good enough, they would be on the Senior team anyway like Kreider for USA this year.

If you like watching kids tournaments where everyone on the ice has huge egos and selfish playing styles and idiotic behavior, more power to you. But this does not change the fact that the Senior World Championships are the exact same thing as the Junior World Championships except without the age restrictions.

And yes, watching "dinosaurs" like Jagr (who are still great players) is part of the appeal. I'd rather watch national heroes than punk kids who just act like national heroes.

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05-22-2010, 04:46 AM
  #73
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You're really grasping at straws here and it's kind of sad. But if you would, please let me know how much I care. Because I'm not sure now and I need some help. How much caring do I have compared to the Olympics? WJC? Spengler Cup? Leafs Preseason? NHL Draft? Under 18? Under 17? Womans World Championship?
Since you have it down that we North Americans are so concerned about this tournament because we read these threads, then please enlighten me on how much is the proper amount of caring.


The players who are there care. No question. Hockey Canada cares. Some fans even care a lot. Most aren't concerned at all.
Canada had enough talent to do better than it did. For whatever reason (and since I didn't watch a single minute, I have no idea why) they didn't. For me, once we're heading into May and June, and my Leafs team is out of the playoffs, I tend to lose some interest. These championships where hundreds of players have chosen to decline playing in just don't create much interest for me. If Canada was doing well, there would probably be more media coverage and I would probably follow closer. But neither has happened and so I just don't care....very much.
Well if you want, you could look in the HFboards archive the past championships and see how much this caring is based on how well the NA teams are doing. In 2007 there were nowhere near this sort proclamations of noncaring, the past 2 years canadians only said how little they cared after the finals..
One thing is for certain though, given the length of your comment, that you care alot about how your noncaring is known to me, and you call me sad? Oh the irony.

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05-22-2010, 04:53 AM
  #74
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I'm kind of surprised that these things are allowed in professional journalism. The Toronto Sun does it best when it comes to acting like a child when it doesn't get the results that they want. Petty insults would fill the content insulting the region and its people in a article written to create and promote hatred.

Back when the Canucks signed Sundin, they ran an article on it that included bashing the city and the people of Vancouver. That was pretty uncalled for and juvenile.

Well, now we know that whichever team does do harm to the Leafs, they will be there to hurl a barrade of insults toward that city and its fans.


Stay classy, Toronto Sun.
Look, I'm no defender of the Toronto Sun (see: my earlier post in this thread) HOWEVER have you seen the crap the Vancouver media has printed about Toronto in the past?


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So no matter the continent, a newspaper that has "sun" in it still sucks?
Pretty much.

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05-22-2010, 05:05 AM
  #75
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Just because other tournaments or leagues don't have the best players in the world doesn't mean I don't watch them, but when there are 2 tournaments going on at the same time, I am forced to watch one over the other and in my case, and most people's cases on this side of the water, the NHL prevails... ESPECIALLY when MY team is making a run for the Cup thank you very much.
Eh? There might be some overlap on the games tomorrow but for the most part the WC games have been on far earlier than the NHL games.

Quote:
But I like what you did there, assuming I'm not a hockey fan because I don't give 2 ***** about a "world championship" that doesn't have the best players in the world participating in them, including those players of the European nations. When I watch the CHL, AHL or NCAA, I don't assume the best in the world are going to be in it because those leagues aren't boasting such a title, are they?
You just said it yourself that you don't care about the WC because they don't include all the best players in the world. What am I supposed to assume if you say something like that? It sounds exactly like you only watch the NHL and the Olympics because you only like watching the very best players.

Geez, don't get mad at me for making a logical conclusion based upon your own remarks.

I watch the AHL, NCAA, and even the CHL occasionally too. The World Championships have been far superior entertainment than all three IMO.

Just because some players refuse to play for their national teams does not mean the World Championships don't boast the best players. They boast the best AVAILABLE players. Again, not the fault of the WC if some players aren't available.

Quote:
The fact that you can't wrap your mind around the fact that culturally, the World Championships have never really been relevant except for a few times in the last century to Canadians and Americans is mind boggling.
Who said I can't wrap my mind around that? Obviously it's true. But considering the arguments against it are so weak I've never understood why. It may not be the Olympics, but it's still a good international tournament. Plus it's obviously good for the game because more countries are involved and it helps develop the national teams without many NHL players.

Quote:
But since you enjoy it, all the power to you. I hope I'm not preventing you from watching it in any way shape or form.
Not at all. I just like to question what I see as illogical reasoning for disliking something. I'll continue to enjoy the games no problem and I think you should give them another shot!

Quote:
It's no real shocker that the Stanley Cup is eons more important to North Americans than Europeans. Which is why it boggles my mind that come this time of year, people such as yourself and from across the pond seem to come to this revelation that everyone should be involved in this tournament when they fully acknowledge in the past that to North Americans, the WC have never been a big part of our "hockey culture"
I don't think it has anything to do with culture, considering that the internet has made it very easy to follow both the Stanley Cup and the World Championships at the same time.

I know many people who are following both, North Americans AND Europeans.

So perhaps it isn't a part of the older, conservative hockey culture but I think that will obviously die out eventually.

Quote:
As far as most of us go, WE KNOW FULL WELL THE BEST don't play in this tournament. I believe the Olympics settled that score for us a few months ago. I don't need to watch another World Championship tournament when we JUST had one with higher stakes, a larger platform and better players across the board.
That's cool, but I never compared the WC to the Olympics. Obviously I think the Olympics are far superior. Why would that stop me from enjoying more international hockey though? But I guess that is where we differ.

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