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Mark Hardy Arrested Under Suspicion of Felony Sexual Abuse

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Old
05-21-2010, 08:44 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Hardly. I think that some of this defending of Hardy is sickening.

Rather than claim that the whole story is made up (which makes more sense), some are already accepting that he was in bed with his daughter, and then are attempting to rationalize how it is okay... That it's completely healthy and normal for grown men to crawl into bed with their adult daughters. Men who can afford more than one bed for themselves and their family.

For the record, I know the system sucks. I was screwed last year in court when the judge didn't know the difference between a webhost and a web developer. However, Dtfk, being a defense lawyer, is already prejudiced the opposite way. That's the reason for the potshot.


You missed the context of my post. Tonelli'sGhost said that he and his son had to share a bed because the place they stayed at only had one bed. While a father and son sharing a bed is different from a father and daughter, the point I was making was that Hardy's wife was also with them... which makes the situation entirely different and incomparable.
I let the potshot go, because I am so used to it by now, but honestly, until anyone of us know all the facts, NO ONE, as I said in my opening post can say whether what he did was criminal or not. AS THE VERY FIRST COMMENT I MADE ADMITTED WHAT I DO FOR A LIVING AND AN OBVIOUS BIAS, YOUR ATTACK IS OF NO EFFECT.

Now to get to your presumptions, who said Harpo got into her bed? Or that he wasnt sleeping first? or that his wife wasnt there too? or, or or?

You have already placed yourself in the lynch mob by your comments, so, legally or logically, your prejudice is proven. Your comments would be used by any competent defense lawyer to establish prejudice and have you removed from a jury, who at least, arguably would wait to withhold judgment until after hearing ALL THE EVIDENCE. You are ready, in the pedantic court of public opinion (read LCD) to convict on mere allegation alone. That you can't see there are a myriad or reasons, explanations, situations or circumstances where a parent ends up sleeping in the same bed as their child no matter what age leads to the inescapapble conclusion that you are not open to the truth, whatever it maybe but are blinded by your own prejudice in that you can't accept something that might be beyond your experieince or (and I would never intimate this to a juror in court) comprehension.

I take my job very seriously. I have to, as people put their liberty in my trust.
Cops take their job seriously too, and very many of them feel that since criminals dont play by the rules they don't have to either. THAT IS WRONG. We live in a country of rules, that are to be followed by everyone, law enforcement and otherwise. Those rules are enforced, at times by those who would take advantage of governmental power. Other people, known as attorneys, fight for the application of Rules, known as laws, so that their clients are not taken advantage of or railroaded by law enforcement personnel and prosecutors who think the ends justify the means as long as it puts PEOPLE in jail. You should be happy there are people like me who challenge the government in trying to incarcerate every person that comes into the system, becasue no human system is perfect, and without attorneys, like myself, you have no idea how many innocent people would have been wrongly accused and convicted. People like you cant see that being arrested and charged doesn't mean you're a criminal, but many many people still do.

Try being open to the truth before judging. None us know what happened, and based on our system of rules and with my knowledge of the abuses in the system, I am willing to give the person the benefit of the doubt they ARE LEGALLY accorded in this country of being INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN (IN A COURT OF LAW) GUILTY.

It appears you are not

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Old
05-21-2010, 08:51 PM
  #127
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Sounds like, and I hate to make an assumption, that they were both **** faced, fell asleep, he woke up, forgot where he was and started to do his thing, thinking he was with his wife.

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05-21-2010, 08:54 PM
  #128
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Family goes out, gets drunk dad feels frisky thinks he's getting into bed with mom, daughter get's a scary surprise. Honestly I would imagine it's some sort of mix up maybe the girl ran to her mom or whatever and told her and they freaked out and called the cops... Maybe he is a pervert who knows. Hopefully it's an honest mistake (which is still messed up). I would imagine that he hasn't done it before or else she would have brought that up too.

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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Sounds like, and I hate to make an assumption, that they were both **** faced, fell asleep, he woke up, forgot where he was and started to do his thing, thinking he was with his wife.
Edit: Beat me to it lol.

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Old
05-21-2010, 09:07 PM
  #129
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Wow. This is a weird story.

And whether he's determined to be innocent or guilty almost doesn't matter for the sake of his relationship with his family now, it's damaged permanently just because of the accusation.

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05-21-2010, 09:08 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by ean View Post
Wow. This is a weird story.

And whether he's determined to be innocent or guilty almost doesn't matter for the sake of his relationship with his family now, it's damaged permanently just because of the accusation.
Nonsense!

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05-21-2010, 09:11 PM
  #131
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Nonsense!
Ok. Not sure how you could think otherwise. But ok.

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Old
05-21-2010, 09:28 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
I'm not jumping to that conclusion so much as I'm saying he should have never been in that situation in the first place, especially if he was "very intoxicated".

When I'm coaching a high school team, I always make sure that there is another parent around until every player has gone home. Not because I am afraid that I might do something awful, but because I want to prevent a player from making any untrue accusations. I've seen it happen before to other coaches, and it is unfortunate.

In Harpo's case, he's not camping in a tent. He's staying in a 4-diamond luxury hotel. The bed options are either a king (no pun intended) or 2 doubles in the room.

Now, perhaps I jumped the gun and Hardy only purchased one room with a king bed, and he and his wife were sleeping on the floor with their daughter taking the bed. But that's highly unlikely, do you agree?
First, I apologize if my response was a bit harsh, just caught me a little off guard.

Second, as to your point of view, it makes me ask a question, are you are parent?

I used to coach youth hockey (both hockey usa certified and at the Juniour level in St.Johns) and when traveling I took the same precautions that you did but for different reasons.

I always had parents traveling with the team so there were always adults and kids (always several at a time) in the same room. In that situation though I never had anyone, parent or player stay in my room, it wouldn't be appropriate.

That said, I would never spend any time with any one player in my room.

Now, when my son was playing (I only coached his team for one year, didn't think it would look right if I coached him) I would travel with his team at times as a parent and would share a room with my son and one or two other players as it was customary to do.

Nothing weird about it nor did anyone ever say that anything bad ever happened.

I would never have had a player whether I was coaching him or not, stay in my room that wasn't my son.

That is why I ask if you are a parent because as a parent and this is just my opinion, it doesn't matter if they had a row of military racks available, I still say that there are several different reasons for a parent to sleep in the same bed with their child, adult or not.

That child is my blood, my heart and soul and I would never even think about anything other than that I am with my child. The same as I would in any other circumstance.

If what is alleged to have happened actually did then like I said, it is an absolute abomination and must be dealt with accordingly.

I just feel that in the meantime, there are reasons for a parent to be in the same bed as their child and I am willing to give Harpo the benefit of a doubt until I see otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty for everyone, even if he is a friend or a family member of our team.

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05-21-2010, 10:39 PM
  #133
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Hey boys.

JDM sent me a text about this earlier when I was in court. I have been on both sides of these cases. You may know I am a divorce lawyer. I have represented fathers in custody cases accused of this and mothers in said cases making such accusations. I have a lot of experience with these types of issues and plenty of trials.

I haven't looked into the allegations in any detail yet. I will do some research before I post anything here and/or on lakingsnews.

Harpo is part of our Kings family. When these types of accusations hit home like this, both an overreaction claiming culpability and overreaction claiming innocence are common. I encourage you to stay away from either. None of us know the truth but incidents like these are (despite what some of you may believe) not just he said, she said. While direct evidence is rare, circumstantial evidence generally heavily tips the scales one way or another.

For now, never forget that Harpo is innocent until proven guilty. It is the foundation for this country's criminal justice system.

I sure wish I knew you were a divorce lawyer before I spent the last 48 hours at the courthouse figuring out how to enforce a divorce decree with still no luck.

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Old
05-21-2010, 10:51 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Zizou View Post
If this is true, get this pathetic piece of **** out of the league and into counseling.
Do you mean back into counseling? I'm not sure if you were a fan of the Kings in the late eighties (pre-Gretzky), but Kings fans enjoyed regularly ripping on Hardy when the dude made a dumb-dumb defensive mistake ......which, sadly, was frequently!!

The Forum Faithful gave him that mocking chant that's normally reserved for the opposition's goaltender; "Haaaarrrr - deeeeee, Haaaarrrr - deeeeee, Haaaaarrrr - deeeee......."

Allegedly, Hardy had to undergo therapy as a result of this incessant mockery.

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Old
05-21-2010, 11:19 PM
  #135
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Speaking of prejudice, looks like you have some issues.
Issues? No. Experience? Yes.

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05-21-2010, 11:26 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Hardly. I think that some of this defending of Hardy is sickening.
What's equally sickening is the automatic assumption that Hardy is guilty.

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05-22-2010, 12:02 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
First, I apologize if my response was a bit harsh, just caught me a little off guard.

Second, as to your point of view, it makes me ask a question, are you are parent?

I used to coach youth hockey (both hockey usa certified and at the Juniour level in St.Johns) and when traveling I took the same precautions that you did but for different reasons.

I always had parents traveling with the team so there were always adults and kids (always several at a time) in the same room. In that situation though I never had anyone, parent or player stay in my room, it wouldn't be appropriate.

That said, I would never spend any time with any one player in my room.

Now, when my son was playing (I only coached his team for one year, didn't think it would look right if I coached him) I would travel with his team at times as a parent and would share a room with my son and one or two other players as it was customary to do.

Nothing weird about it nor did anyone ever say that anything bad ever happened.

I would never have had a player whether I was coaching him or not, stay in my room that wasn't my son.

That is why I ask if you are a parent because as a parent and this is just my opinion, it doesn't matter if they had a row of military racks available, I still say that there are several different reasons for a parent to sleep in the same bed with their child, adult or not.

That child is my blood, my heart and soul and I would never even think about anything other than that I am with my child. The same as I would in any other circumstance.

If what is alleged to have happened actually did then like I said, it is an absolute abomination and must be dealt with accordingly.

I just feel that in the meantime, there are reasons for a parent to be in the same bed as their child and I am willing to give Harpo the benefit of a doubt until I see otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty for everyone, even if he is a friend or a family member of our team.
I understand where you're coming from on everything and I don't want to get into the middle of something but I did want to state that as a woman in her twenties I would never see any reason to be in the same bed as my Dad. Same hotel room sure but never same bed.

You're right it is perfectly normal for you to share a bed with your son but would you share a bed with your daughter past the age of about 12?

Anyway weird situation all around and I hope it turns out ok.

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Old
05-22-2010, 12:06 AM
  #138
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I think pretty much every base has been touched (no pun intended) in this thread. It's a bad, bad situation and I hope for the sake of everyone involved it's resolved before it becomes a huge sideshow and a problem for the Kings organization.

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Old
05-22-2010, 09:11 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by oil_fan85 View Post
I understand where you're coming from on everything and I don't want to get into the middle of something but I did want to state that as a woman in her twenties I would never see any reason to be in the same bed as my Dad. Same hotel room sure but never same bed.

You're right it is perfectly normal for you to share a bed with your son but would you share a bed with your daughter past the age of about 12?

Anyway weird situation all around and I hope it turns out ok.
That's basically what I was trying to say.

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05-22-2010, 10:13 AM
  #140
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You're right, I crossed the line when I assumed that everyone had parents.
That was mistake 1

I was raised by groundhogs

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Old
05-22-2010, 11:18 AM
  #141
etherialone
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Originally Posted by oil_fan85 View Post
I understand where you're coming from on everything and I don't want to get into the middle of something but I did want to state that as a woman in her twenties I would never see any reason to be in the same bed as my Dad. Same hotel room sure but never same bed.

You're right it is perfectly normal for you to share a bed with your son but would you share a bed with your daughter past the age of about 12?

Anyway weird situation all around and I hope it turns out ok.
This also makes me so sad, I truly do feel sorry for you and hope that you take this as genuine.

Where does the notion of lewd or lascivious behavior enter into the notion of sleeping in the same bed with your parent/child regardless of the age? So my brother after missing his daughter was wrong to crash in the same bed with his daughter after staying up most of the night talking?

It truly makes me sad to think that there is a presupposed element of illicit behavior for any reason regarding an adult parent and their child falling asleep on the same piece of furniture.

Of course decorum would indicate that it shouldn't be a daily event or even that it should only happen on rare occasions where some sort of necessity is involved but to outright think it wrong is sort of weird and wrong to me.

Its also sort of sexist to say that a father and daughter shouldn't sleep on the same piece of furniture. Would it be alright if it were mother and son? How about father and son?

I mean, its sort of disturbing that something as innocent as falling asleep watching a movie or due to space limitations is seen as being wrong as it implies that something bad is bound to happen.

Whatever happened to implied innocence?

Whatever happened to the idea that a parent under no circumstances would ever even think about doing anything to their child and so there would be no reason for anyone to consider the idea of sharing a place to sleep with their child regardless of their age or gender as wrong?

I think that this is the entire point in my opinion of what is at stake in this situation.

Until we find out that something actually did happen in that bed (which by what we have read in the press seems to be something but I for one think that all news media is almost practically useless) then why would we assume that something wrong had been done.

I guess my response to you would be to come back and post when you are a mother of a child in their 20's and if you feel the same way then there might be something for us to debate.

Please don't take that the wrong way, I don't mean that your opinion is in any way invalid to my point of view, I am just thinking that the fact that I am a parent of a child in their twenties might be swaying my opinion.

I have on a road trip once slept in the same bed with my 17yo niece, it wasn't the best situation and happened out of necessity. We slept head to feet, are we certain that wasn't the situation here? I mean do we know it to be a fact that it wasn't pre arranged that they too were going to sleep head to toe or something else that might seem more appropriate? We don't.

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Old
05-22-2010, 11:24 AM
  #142
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Since nobody knows anything, I think the best thing we can do is...


...make jokes!

I'll start: I never realized MH was from Kentucky!

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Old
05-22-2010, 11:32 AM
  #143
etherialone
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He isn't from Kentucky Flanders.......

If he were he wouldn't have been arrested.

Though he might have a new common law wifedaughter.

Someone get the shotgun, its weddin time! Yeeehoo!

I am going to go scrub the filth off of me now, or try to.

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05-22-2010, 11:38 AM
  #144
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I understand where you're coming from on everything and I don't want to get into the middle of something but I did want to state that as a woman in her twenties I would never see any reason to be in the same bed as my Dad. Same hotel room sure but never same bed.

You're right it is perfectly normal for you to share a bed with your son but would you share a bed with your daughter past the age of about 12?

Anyway weird situation all around and I hope it turns out ok..
Quote:
Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
That's basically what I was trying to say.
This is assuming that the act was intentional - could it have just been an honest mistake?

Most of you aren't old enough to remember this commercial from the late 60s

Would this have been sexual abuse if he had grabbed Mrs Burke's genitals instead of tossing her around in the pool, thinking it was his girlfriend?

Consider this scenario - Mom was already in the room when Hardy and daughter got back from their night of inebriation. What if Mom had somehow ended up in the other bed in the room? Daughter sees Mom sleeping soundly, so she just hops in the empty bed and falls fast asleep due to the alcohol. Hardy; drunk and in dark, unfamiliar surroundings doesn't notice the switch and slips into what he assumed was his bed with his wife, looking for a little "relief". The bed switch is realized only after he has made the first intimate overture.

Same act, but with no intent.

Is there a zero tolerance policy on this in D.C.? Are the police obligated to arrest anyone accused of something like this and let the court system decide intent? At least one report said that the daughter went to the front desk crying immediately after the incident. Police were called soon thereafter. Hardy, in all likelihood, did fondle his daughter's genitals and admitted as much to the detectives who interviewed him following the incident.

Is it unusual for someone charged with offenses like these to be released on their own recognizance? Should anything be read into that decision?

...and please don't misconstrue any of my post. I'm not offering excuses, only possible explanations for something that appears to be completely out of character.


Last edited by PSP: 05-22-2010 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Wrong first quote
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05-22-2010, 11:41 AM
  #145
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05-22-2010, 11:47 AM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
This also makes me so sad, I truly do feel sorry for you and hope that you take this as genuine.

Where does the notion of lewd or lascivious behavior enter into the notion of sleeping in the same bed with your parent/child regardless of the age? So my brother after missing his daughter was wrong to crash in the same bed with his daughter after staying up most of the night talking?

It truly makes me sad to think that there is a presupposed element of illicit behavior for any reason regarding an adult parent and their child falling asleep on the same piece of furniture.

Of course decorum would indicate that it shouldn't be a daily event or even that it should only happen on rare occasions where some sort of necessity is involved but to outright think it wrong is sort of weird and wrong to me.

Its also sort of sexist to say that a father and daughter shouldn't sleep on the same piece of furniture. Would it be alright if it were mother and son? How about father and son?

I mean, its sort of disturbing that something as innocent as falling asleep watching a movie or due to space limitations is seen as being wrong as it implies that something bad is bound to happen.

Whatever happened to implied innocence?

Whatever happened to the idea that a parent under no circumstances would ever even think about doing anything to their child and so there would be no reason for anyone to consider the idea of sharing a place to sleep with their child regardless of their age or gender as wrong?

I think that this is the entire point in my opinion of what is at stake in this situation.

Until we find out that something actually did happen in that bed (which by what we have read in the press seems to be something but I for one think that all news media is almost practically useless) then why would we assume that something wrong had been done.

I guess my response to you would be to come back and post when you are a mother of a child in their 20's and if you feel the same way then there might be something for us to debate.

Please don't take that the wrong way, I don't mean that your opinion is in any way invalid to my point of view, I am just thinking that the fact that I am a parent of a child in their twenties might be swaying my opinion.

I have on a road trip once slept in the same bed with my 17yo niece, it wasn't the best situation and happened out of necessity. We slept head to feet, are we certain that wasn't the situation here? I mean do we know it to be a fact that it wasn't pre arranged that they too were going to sleep head to toe or something else that might seem more appropriate? We don't.
But what you are trying to normalize here is so way out of the ball park of what is being reported. The daughter wakes up finds her Dad in bed, with his hands down her pants. Obviously one should wait for more details, before exercising judgement, but the report as it stands from the daughter is concerning and trying to normalize the event makes it even worse. Now information may come out contrary to the initial report, but that hasn't happened yet. With your niece, you were clearly not comfortable sharing a bed because you made provisions to make the situation a little less awkward, and i am sorry from adolescence on there is absolutely no way i would share a bed with my Dad, he or i can sleep on the floor or get a cot. I do know all families might have slightly different boundaries around these issues, but i got to think the majority of females would be feeling the same on this one.

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05-22-2010, 11:55 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
This is assuming that the act was intentional - could it have just been an honest mistake?


Consider this scenario - Mom was already in the room when Hardy and daughter got back from their night of inebriation. What if Mom had somehow ended up in the other bed in the room? Daughter sees Mom sleeping soundly, so she just hops in the empty bed and falls fast asleep due to the alcohol. Hardy; drunk and in dark, unfamiliar surroundings doesn't notice the switch and slips into what he assumed was his bed with his wife, looking for a little "relief". The bed switch is realized only after he has made the first intimate overture.

Same act, but with no intent.

Is there a zero tolerance policy on this in D.C.? Are the police obligated to arrest anyone accused of something like this and let the court system decide intent? At least one report said that the daughter went to the front desk crying immediately after the incident. Police were called soon thereafter. Hardy, in all likelihood, did fondle his daughter's genitals and admitted as much to the detectives who interviewed him following the incident.

Is it unusual for someone charged with offenses like these to be released on their own recognizance? Should anything be read into that decision?

...and please don't misconstrue any of my post. I'm not offering excuses, only possible explanations for something that appears to be completely out of character.
I see what you are saying in respect to daughter running to the front, and making a report, and then maybe finding out that Dad made such as mistake but too late as the police were already involved. But you think the nature of the mistake would have come out during the interviews, and the daughter would have recanted, etc. Its hard to say. I have had a fair amount of experience in these matters, and it is not unusual for an individual to be released on conditions. It would not mean anything in respect to innocence or guilt. Also i have read in this thread about people recanting abuse. It is not abnormal for abuse victims to do this for a multitude of reasons, and doesn't necessarily indicate the even did not happen.

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05-22-2010, 12:19 PM
  #148
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"High intoxicated"

I think that is the quote I read.

That affects (1) behavior (2) intent, and (3) reaction.

If Hardy got into bed with his daughter with anything that resembled general or specific intent to do so and touched his daughter knowing she was his daughter (as opposed to his wife), then you likely have a crime and, just as important, you have by moral standards a highly perverse act.

If Hardy got into bed with his daughter thinking it was that of his wife (this is assuming his wife was in the hotel room as well) and thinking that it was his wife that he was touching, then you have a horrible mistake that is both embarrassing and poses questions as to how a man of his age could allow himself to get into such an inebriated condition. But, I am currently looking into whether that is sufficient for him to be convicted of the crime with which he is accused.

If you take the second scenario and then add to it a "very intoxicated" daughter, then you have more likely than not a potential unclear perception of what occurred as well as a potential (key word) highly charged reaction to what may have occurred. Think about the last time you were "very intoxicated" and how elevated your emotional state may have been.

Another factor is the degree of the inappropriate touching (using the proffer of facts' terminology that I read). If it was seconds of touching, immediate awakening and reaction then we are dealing with a more explainable situation. If it was extensive digital penetration (never thought I would write those words on hf) for an extended period of time, that may factor into all this - at minimum, when dealing with the fall out to the family unit.

I will have more information about specifics early next week

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05-22-2010, 12:23 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post
that's a good movie........

watched it as akid and never understood what that pillow joke means.
Today it's even more funny

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05-22-2010, 12:25 PM
  #150
etherialone
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Originally Posted by sueroe View Post
But what you are trying to normalize here is so way out of the ball park of what is being reported. The daughter wakes up finds her Dad in bed, with his hands down her pants. Obviously one should wait for more details, before exercising judgement, but the report as it stands from the daughter is concerning and trying to normalize the event makes it even worse. Now information may come out contrary to the initial report, but that hasn't happened yet. With your niece, you were clearly not comfortable sharing a bed because you made provisions to make the situation a little less awkward, and i am sorry from adolescence on there is absolutely no way i would share a bed with my Dad, he or i can sleep on the floor or get a cot. I do know all families might have slightly different boundaries around these issues, but i got to think the majority of females would be feeling the same on this one.
To your first point, It is alleged that his daughter woke up with her dad's hand down her pants, until it is proven in a court of law it might not have happened as far as I am concerned, in other words, I want to hear what actually happened in court before I believe what has been reported.

I am not trying to "normalize" anything about what Hardy is alleged to have done under any circumstances.

I am not trying to normalize an act where a father would molest his daughter and as I have said over and over, that act is an abomination and should be dealt with in accordance with the law and punished to the full extent of what it allows.

What I am doing is pointing out that as a father I can think of several reasons, situations where a parent could share a place to sleep with their adult child.

I will always see that as perfectly normal behavior. What you and a few others are doing is implying that there aren't any situations where a parent should share a place to sleep with their adult (or in some cases adolescent) child.

I am simply refuting that point.

I am pointing out that it is in my opinion wrong to assume that what was written is an factual account of what happened. The news blows it constantly and flat out lies as often, I will wait until a court of law reviews the facts before I decide Harpo's guilt or innocence from my perspective.


As to the boundaries issue, I guess it is different for different people, in my family we simply don't try to sexualize something that is innocent unless there is a reason to, I guess I thought all families where the same way and it makes me sad to think other wise.

With my niece, the reason that we slept head to toe was that she was reading and needed the lamp so I slept with my head at the other end. If she was going right to sleep I wouldn't have given it another thought, and still won't to sleep with my head at the same end as hers.

There would never be any sexual intent between me and any family member (other than my wife) so I would simply never consider it as a possibility and as such will never think it wrong.

Also, I was totally comfortable sharing a bed with my niece, why would you think otherwise? Is it because we slept head to toe? If that is the case then you jumped to a massively incorrect conclusion and the two things have nothing to do with each other.

The only possible concession that I can see that was made when my niece and I shared a place to sleep was that we both slept in sweatpants and t shirts.

The reason for that is two fold, one is that I typically sleep in sweatpants and a t-shirt (newfie is a cold place and old habits die hard) and I suppose that my niece does too but even if we didn't, I believe that we would have because it would have been wrong to sleep in the buff with anyone other than my wife and we are both rational people who wouldn't want to embarrass each other.

Was Harpo's daughter naked" Was Harpo? I don't know but if they were wearing clothing that covered their kibbles and bits then I can't see a reason that it is so wrong to share a place to sleep with your child/parent. Again, implied innocence.

There is the difference of opinion, I can simply see several reasons that could cause me out of necessity sleep in the same bed as my adult child and will never see anything sexual or wrong in it because I'm simply not wired that way.

You appear to be assuming that the reports that we have read up to this point have even a shred of truth in them and I believe that we are lied to so often by the media that you can't trust any of it. I will wait until a court of law establishes innocence or guilt before I make up my mind.

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