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Mark Hardy Arrested Under Suspicion of Felony Sexual Abuse

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05-23-2010, 12:58 PM
  #176
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Rick Tocchet is a former Flyer. Hmmm... in all honesty, I think he is a very good coach.

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05-23-2010, 01:22 PM
  #177
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I would love to have Rick Tocchet as a assistant coach, he's an upgrade over Kompon

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05-23-2010, 01:44 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Rick Tocchet is a former Flyer. Hmmm... in all honesty, I think he is a very good coach.
Chaos of a club but the results speaks for themselves. Not good.

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05-23-2010, 01:51 PM
  #179
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Chaos of a club but the results speaks for themselves. Not good.
Look at the mess that organization was from up top with ownership and management. They fire done of Tocchet's assistants in Wes Walz. He had to deal with a buffoon of a manager. He accomplished a lot with very little.

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05-23-2010, 04:09 PM
  #180
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Look at the mess that organization was from up top with ownership and management. They fire done of Tocchet's assistants in Wes Walz. He had to deal with a buffoon of a manager. He accomplished a lot with very little.
I agree with you on the ownership and management. I disagree he achieved a lot with little. Top notch forwards (Stamkos and St Louis finishing 5th and 6th in scoring as well as Lecavalier, Malone, Downie) and good defensemen (Hedman, Ohlund, Meszaros) but just not a very solid team defensively. I think this is too little with quite a bit.

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05-23-2010, 04:37 PM
  #181
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Too many roosters in the house with Tocchet, not to mention I don't like him.
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05-23-2010, 05:37 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by sueroe View Post
I agree, i have seen the media embellish the story or fill in the blanks more than once. At the same time i am sure they are just reporting straight from the police report at this point. Arrest has been made and here are the charges. Perhaps its my experience in the area of abuse, but i have also been lied to by what appears to be very decent, charming individuals, who are not at all who they are cracked up to be, and can admit i am a little jaded. I agree we have to wait to hear all the facts presented once in court, if it even gets that far.
I have an understanding of abuse and its machinations sadly but in this instance I am able to put my bias aside on that point and maybe found it easier to accomplish because of it, I honestly don't know.

As to what the media is reporting I would love to have your ability to still hold out a shred of hope for its ability to report the truth but try as I might it always seems to let me down. Still, its good that you can still see some good there.

As to your last point we've all been lied to and we've all been fooled by people we trusted and I would be lying if I didn't say that I have become more cautious as to who I allow into my personal world as a result of this.

I have also found that it is better to believe that people want to be good and honest (with exceptions that are usually motivated by some sort of monetary gain) and if they prove to be otherwise, then to beat them until they forget they ever knew you. (kidding, mostly).

In this case, the fact that I know Mark (somewhat) his wife and his family (again somewhat) I will do nothing more than wait for all of the evidence to presented in a court of law before I would ever consider thinking him guilty.

I like to think that I would do the same for anyone else but I honestly don't really know if I would. I hope so.

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05-24-2010, 12:40 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
This is assuming that the act was intentional - could it have just been an honest mistake?
And that is exactly the reason why I disagree with Tonellisghost's assertion that sharing a bed with a daughter in her 20s is okay. You never know what might happen, intentional or not, so why put yourself in that situation? If I was in that situation, I'd be sleeping on the floor rather than with my daughter.

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05-24-2010, 12:45 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
To your first point, It is alleged that his daughter woke up with her dad's hand down her pants, until it is proven in a court of law it might not have happened as far as I am concerned, in other words, I want to hear what actually happened in court before I believe what has been reported.
Hardy apologized for it. So you can stop with the denials.

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05-24-2010, 01:38 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by aegwillnotwinthecup View Post
This whole thing seems so weird. If Hardy is this pervert and has been molesting his daughter for years, then why go to the police now over this one act? There are all kinds of psychological implications concerning the daughter. Perhaps she graduated college, felt a sense of independence and freedom, and thought now was the time to come forward about years of abuse...? I'm grasping at straws here. The circumstances surrounding this whole thing are very strange.

It honestly sounds to me like they were all way too drunk and Hardy made an embarrassing and stupid mistake.

Funny, relevant anecdote:

I have a fiance today that I've been with for over five years. When we were much younger and first together we partied a lot, she brought her girlfriends and me my dudes. We were all partying one night - I think I had easily killed a fifth of Jack all by myself - and I ended up passing out on the floor with my (future) fiance on my left and her friend on my right. I suppose, although I don't really remember, I reached over and started messing around with, who I thought, was my girlfriend. Turned out it was her friend and my drunk ass rolled over on the wrong side. Suffice it to say, I sobered up really fast and had a lot of damage control to do next morning, but it was an honest mistake and we were all just a little too drunk.

So for what it's worth, that's what alcohol can do to a man.
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05-24-2010, 01:48 AM
  #186
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05-24-2010, 02:37 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
And that is exactly the reason why I disagree with Tonellisghost's assertion that sharing a bed with a daughter in her 20s is okay. You never know what might happen, intentional or not, so why put yourself in that situation? If I was in that situation, I'd be sleeping on the floor rather than with my daughter.
I'll agree with you that sharing a bed with your daughter in her 20s is NOT OK, but this is assuming that the act of climbing into bed with his daughter was intentional. If it was unintentional, IMO all bets are off. From what I have read, Hardy was well past the point of realizing that it wasn't his wife that he was in bed with until it was waaaay too late.

Assuming that it was an unintentional act and that he STOPPED as soon as he realized his mistake, I think that you have to give him a pass. I've known several guys who ended up in bed in an inebriated state with someone and were ready to perform "the deed" until they discovered that their partner wasn't what they expected. One guy who worked for me years ago discovered, to his chagrin at the last moment, that the "girl" he was about to get busy with had a bigger package than he did. As soon as he discovered that, he stopped - hopefully Mark Hardy did too.

If he didn't stop when the reality of the situation became clear, feel free to hang him, but until we know that to be true, IMO you must give him the benefit of the doubt.

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05-24-2010, 05:08 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I'll agree with you that sharing a bed with your daughter in her 20s is NOT OK, but this is assuming that the act of climbing into bed with his daughter was intentional. If it was unintentional, IMO all bets are off. From what I have read, Hardy was well past the point of realizing that it wasn't his wife that he was in bed with until it was waaaay too late.

Assuming that it was an unintentional act and that he STOPPED as soon as he realized his mistake, I think that you have to give him a pass. I've known several guys who ended up in bed in an inebriated state with someone and were ready to perform "the deed" until they discovered that their partner wasn't what they expected. One guy who worked for me years ago discovered, to his chagrin at the last moment, that the "girl" he was about to get busy with had a bigger package than he did. As soon as he discovered that, he stopped - hopefully Mark Hardy did too.

If he didn't stop when the reality of the situation became clear, feel free to hang him, but until we know that to be true, IMO you must give him the benefit of the doubt.
If it was clearly a mistake, why would his daughter press charges?

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05-24-2010, 05:27 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
If it was clearly a mistake, why would his daughter press charges?
It's possible that she wasn't in the right frame of mind.

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05-24-2010, 10:29 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
If it was clearly a mistake, why would his daughter press charges?
It never says she is pressing charges. The phone call was made. The police showed up. They questioned Hardy and most likely everyone else and the police arrested him. Most states (and maybe the District of Columbia) the victim does not need to press charges for the police to arrest a person. It does make it hard to convict if the victim refuses to testify so the DA may drop the case if there is no witness willing to testify.

Also an apology is not an admission of guilt. He may have been apologizing for climbing into the wrong bed or waking her up from a bad dream or...

Until the facts are known I can not convict him. I have already lost a lot of respect for him just because he has gotten himself in this predictament. And yes I have a theory of what happened and it is not flattering toward Mr Hardy, but I do not know what happened. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I don't think we (the internet masses) will every know all the facts. If he did this then throw the book at him, heck throw library at him. If this was something else then convict him of that.

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05-24-2010, 10:57 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
From what I have read, Hardy was well past the point of realizing that it wasn't his wife that he was in bed with until it was waaaay too late.

Assuming that it was an unintentional act and that he STOPPED as soon as he realized his mistake, I think that you have to give him a pass. I've known several guys who ended up in bed in an inebriated state with someone and were ready to perform "the deed" until they discovered that their partner wasn't what they expected. One guy who worked for me years ago discovered, to his chagrin at the last moment, that the "girl" he was about to get busy with had a bigger package than he did. As soon as he discovered that, he stopped - hopefully Mark Hardy did too.

If he didn't stop when the reality of the situation became clear, feel free to hang him, but until we know that to be true, IMO you must give him the benefit of the doubt.
From what i read so far about the charges was that he was "highly intoxicated". We don't have the facts that would say he was so intoxicated he didn't recognize the person in bed to be his daughter. I would also have a problem giving a guy a free pass of sexually abusing his daughter just because the "intent" to abuse wasn't there. She still lives with the trauma regardless of the intent. I too have heard crazy stuff from friends who got so loaded they ended up in someone elses' house, etc, ususally no harm done to anyone and pretty funny stuff.
The trouble here is this is your kid, and even if this was a horrible mistake, the guy obviously will need a lot of help hopefully getting sober and some counselling, because he is going to have to live with that trauma as well in that case.
I haven't seen many in this thread not willing to wait for all the facts before coming to any conclusions, but rather they are challenging assertions made to possibly justify what happened based on what little facts we all have at this point.

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05-24-2010, 12:49 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
Hardy apologized for it. So you can stop with the denials.
Great, can you show me a direct quote from Mark hardy where his apology is written word for word and again, spoken directly by him?

That will go a long way, because again if all that you are talking about is something that is being said to have happened in a report, it still has little to no value.

As for making denials, what an ignorant thing to say, I completely expect better than that from you.

All that I have said from the start is that I think it is right to assume that sharing a place to sleep with a family member regardless of their age, gender or relation can happen under very innocent circumstances.

Where it appears that you are of the opinion that anytime anyone shares a place to sleep with a family member that it always going to be wrong if they are past a certain randomly decided age.

My take is wait and see what happened with Harpo, that is my only position on the matter and has been from the start, if in the end he is guilty then as I have also said, no matter the circumstances it is a heinous act and should be dealt with strongly.

I refuse to jump to the conclusion that something wrong happened until I know that it did.

I am happy that I am not one of those fly off the handle knee jerk reactionaries who jump at the chance to join the court of public opinion and get duped by the media into trying and convicting someone, regardless of who they are, as being guilty of something that I haven't seen to be the truth based on the actual facts of a situation.

It makes me wonder why some people are so quick to judge, do they protest too much? I don't know.

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05-24-2010, 01:00 PM
  #193
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Hey boys

Here is a Q & A with a local, experienced D.C. criminal law lawyer about Hardy's arrest and case. It may help answer some questions you have.

http://lakingsnews.com/2010/05/22/q-...d-prosecution/
Zad>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nessie

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05-24-2010, 01:13 PM
  #194
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Thanks LBFF.

That was an interesting read and it cleared up what could happen if MH is found guilty but, even the lawyer questioned the "Gerstein Report" himself "if the facts are true".

I think that the only way to truly know what happened is to wait until MH either makes a definitive statement in a press release (doubtful but possible) or when the facts are tried in a court of law.

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05-24-2010, 03:18 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by adevandry View Post
It's possible that she wasn't in the right frame of mind.
Always the convenient excuse.

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Originally Posted by onlyalad View Post
It never says she is pressing charges. The phone call was made. The police showed up. They questioned Hardy and most likely everyone else and the police arrested him. Most states (and maybe the District of Columbia) the victim does not need to press charges for the police to arrest a person. It does make it hard to convict if the victim refuses to testify so the DA may drop the case if there is no witness willing to testify.

Also an apology is not an admission of guilt. He may have been apologizing for climbing into the wrong bed or waking her up from a bad dream or...

Until the facts are known I can not convict him. I have already lost a lot of respect for him just because he has gotten himself in this predictament. And yes I have a theory of what happened and it is not flattering toward Mr Hardy, but I do not know what happened. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I don't think we (the internet masses) will every know all the facts. If he did this then throw the book at him, heck throw library at him. If this was something else then convict him of that.
First, if it was clearly a mistake, you wouldn't call the cops. Second, an apology is an admission of guilt. Who apologizes for something they didn't do?

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05-24-2010, 03:23 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Always the convenient excuse.



First, if it was clearly a mistake, you wouldn't call the cops. Second, an apology is an admission of guilt. Who apologizes for something they didn't do?
Ever been married?

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05-24-2010, 03:47 PM
  #197
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Ever been married?

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05-24-2010, 04:04 PM
  #198
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Always the convenient excuse.



First, if it was clearly a mistake, you wouldn't call the cops. Second, an apology is an admission of guilt. Who apologizes for something they didn't do?
First we don't know who said there was an apology. But even if there was we don't know what he was apologizing for. I am sorry that you misunderstood me. See I apologized even though I did nothing wrong.
Second the hotel front desk called the police. I don't know what happened and neither do you. (the rest of this has no facts to support or deny it nor is it what I think happened.) The daughter may still have been too drunk to realize she was in a room with her father when she runs to the lobby. When the dad came out of the room it may have been too late to stop the call the hotel had made. Hardy says, "for whatever you think I have done, I am sorry" After the police hear all the stories they make an arrest to be safe.

The point I am trying to make is mistakes happen all the time and they are not always clear until later (if ever) and I hope this is one. To assume someone is guity because the police were called is scary. I am not saying he is not guity. I am just saying that without all the facts (or really any facts) I can not find him guilty under the law.

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05-24-2010, 04:27 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
I'll agree with you that sharing a bed with your daughter in her 20s is NOT OK, but this is assuming that the act of climbing into bed with his daughter was intentional. If it was unintentional, IMO all bets are off. From what I have read, Hardy was well past the point of realizing that it wasn't his wife that he was in bed with until it was waaaay too late.

Assuming that it was an unintentional act and that he STOPPED as soon as he realized his mistake, I think that you have to give him a pass. I've known several guys who ended up in bed in an inebriated state with someone and were ready to perform "the deed" until they discovered that their partner wasn't what they expected. One guy who worked for me years ago discovered, to his chagrin at the last moment, that the "girl" he was about to get busy with had a bigger package than he did. As soon as he discovered that, he stopped - hopefully Mark Hardy did too.

If he didn't stop when the reality of the situation became clear, feel free to hang him, but until we know that to be true, IMO you must give him the benefit of the doubt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
If it was clearly a mistake, why would his daughter press charges?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sueroe View Post
From what i read so far about the charges was that he was "highly intoxicated". We don't have the facts that would say he was so intoxicated he didn't recognize the person in bed to be his daughter. I would also have a problem giving a guy a free pass of sexually abusing his daughter just because the "intent" to abuse wasn't there. She still lives with the trauma regardless of the intent. I too have heard crazy stuff from friends who got so loaded they ended up in someone elses' house, etc, ususally no harm done to anyone and pretty funny stuff.
The trouble here is this is your kid, and even if this was a horrible mistake, the guy obviously will need a lot of help hopefully getting sober and some counselling, because he is going to have to live with that trauma as well in that case.
I haven't seen many in this thread not willing to wait for all the facts before coming to any conclusions, but rather they are challenging assertions made to possibly justify what happened based on what little facts we all have at this point.
I am not licensed to practice in D.C. But in California, a "reasonable" mistake of fact can negate INTENT, and intent is an element, in California, or similar charges. In other words, the prosecution must establish intent to touch his daughter ina felonious and sexual manner to prove up their case.

As for "pressing charges" that is a TV created misnomer. You dont have to press charges. In fact, in cases like this or of domestic violence the victim often doesnt want to go forward with the case, and the prosecution doesnt even consider that. They will subpoena the victim and make them testify under threat of contempt or, if the victim indicates they will not say what happened on the stand or that they will lie, the prosecution threatens them with a perjury or false statement to police charge. Pressing charges is the job of the prosecutor, not individuals. If you dont want someone prosecuted, dont call the police. Once the Police are there and the victim or a complaining witness has provided statements which can be construed as establishing probable cause to arrest, its out of the complaining witness or victim's hands.

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05-24-2010, 04:34 PM
  #200
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Isn't it funny that nobody ever talks about hockey or cares about hockey except when something bad happens? When this was announced Friday, I got a text from a friend telling me about it. I then received about 5 emails over the next few hours asking me what the deal is. It is pretty sad that this is how the Kings (and hockey for that matter) have to make the news.

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Always the convenient excuse.



First, if it was clearly a mistake, you wouldn't call the cops. Second, an apology is an admission of guilt. Who apologizes for something they didn't do?
Oh here.. you need one of these too...



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