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Ovechkin with team Russia - mediocre in important games

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Old
05-24-2010, 07:15 AM
  #101
Chicagofan19
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nice, ovechkin owned by jagr, who takes the gold medal. sweet as sweet can be!

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05-24-2010, 10:53 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Zanon View Post
Ovechkin's year just keeps getting worse, haha. Got suspended twice, lost 7-3 to Canada at the Olympics, lost the Art Ross to Sedin, lost the Richard to Crosby/Stamkos, lost in the first round of the playoffs and now this.

So it's a bad year when Ovechkin doesn't win the Art Ross or Richard? Talk about high expectations.

Just goes to show Ovechkin is the best player in the world when people consider the Art Ross and Richard 'his to lose'.

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05-24-2010, 11:35 AM
  #103
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(I wish I had photoshop skillz so I could do a mash of Moreau and Horton's mugshots.
Whoops! Meant Nathan Horton.

For some reason I always call him Ethan.

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05-24-2010, 12:57 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
So it's a bad year when Ovechkin doesn't win the Art Ross or Richard? Talk about high expectations.

Just goes to show Ovechkin is the best player in the world when people consider the Art Ross and Richard 'his to lose'.
Ovechkin is a numbers guy, but he's not a winner... at least not yet.

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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
so if people are going to rag on him for Russia losing the most recent gold medal game, saying that it's a "big game" then they have no choice but to give him credit for winning a gold medal in the WCs the past two years as well, right?
One gold medal, he only won once in 2008. The Capitals were still in the playoffs in 2009. He won it once but it sure wasn't because of him but rather a certain Kovalchuk. Yet again, he wasn't a big factor in the Gold-meal game.


Last edited by Canuck21t: 05-24-2010 at 01:05 PM.
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05-24-2010, 01:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
Ovechkin is a numbers guy, but he's not a winner... at least not yet.


One gold medal, he only won once in 2008. The Capitals were still in the playoffs in 2009. He won it once but it sure wasn't because of him but rather a certain Kovalchuk. Yet again, he wasn't a big factor in the Gold-meal game.

Hmmm......so in instances where Ovechkin's team didn't win he's 'not a winner' and only a numbers guy; yet on occasions he has won titles (WJC, WC) it's because of somebody else?

Tough crowd.

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05-24-2010, 01:33 PM
  #106
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As Damian Cox put it

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Poor Alex Ovechkin. Olympics? Failure, couldn’t score. NHL playoffs? Scored a little, massive team failure. Worlds? Couldn’t score. Again.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...l-tweaks-leafs

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05-24-2010, 02:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
I dunno, goal and assist in game 7 against Flyers, not much against Rangers,goal against Penguins. Against the Habs he was the best player on the ice, and his goal should have counted. He hasn't been exceptional, but he's been better than "mediocre". It's amazing to me that he gets lambasted on these boards for being bad in big games while other players get credit for "always bringing it when it's all on the line", even though those other players really haven't brought it in big games at all.
alex will be a better player when he realizes that stoping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring, hes a captain and hes supposed to lead by example and rally his team to want to win at any cost

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05-24-2010, 03:09 PM
  #108
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i can hardly watch nhl-games but at these world championships he didn't look great (not awfull but mediocre), datsyuk, malkin & kovalchuk all looked a lot better

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05-24-2010, 05:41 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by third man in View Post
Way to back this claim up with stats. That's right you can't.
For the record, Ovechkin's production versus each division:

Atlantic: 126 points in 95 games (1.33 points/game)

Northeast: 131 points in 98 games (1.34 points/game)

Southeast: 195 points in 139 games (1.40 points/game)

West: 77 points in 64 games (1.20 points/game)

So he does TECHNICALLY score more points/game against the Southeast (1.40ppg against Southeast, 1.33ppg against the rest of the East)



Comparisons:

Kovalchuk: 1.16ppg against Southeast, 1.02ppg against the rest of the East

Crosby: 1.27ppg against Southeast, 1.46ppg against the rest of the East

Parise: 0.81ppg against Southeast, 0.84ppg against the rest of the East

Backstrom: 1.08ppg against Southeast, 1.16ppg against the rest of the East

Lecavalier: 0.93ppg against Southeast, 0.87ppg against the rest of the East


So, if we disregard the Southeast completely, Ovechkin would be 2nd in the East in points per game, behind only Crosby. Ovechkin doesn't really do THAT much better against the Southeast compared to the rest of the East.

Now, the claim that most people have that STAR PLAYERS FEAST ON THE SOUTHEAST seems a bit overblown considering that Crosby, Parise and Backstrom all do better against other divisions than they do against the Southeast.

The one advantage that Ovechkin DOES have is that he DOES play more games against the Southeast and since he does equally well against the Southeast and the other divisions in the East, he WILL naturally get more points against them. But the claim that he succeeds BECAUSE he plays the Southeast more is overblown since he has roughly the same 'points per game' against the rest of the East too.

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05-24-2010, 05:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ronnyweed View Post
alex will be a better player when he realizes that stoping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring, hes a captain and hes supposed to lead by example and rally his team to want to win at any cost
You obviously don't watch him play. Rewatch game 7 against the Habs. The amount of results-oriented thinking on this website is unbearable. He was far and away the best player on the ice, and he was forechecking and backchecking like a mad man. I question whether or not you people even watch hockey, or if you just make it a point to spew all the standard bull **** HF boards party lines at every turn.

edit: The extra gear I saw Ovechkin hit in Game 7 against the Habs was something I haven't seen from any virtually any other player in the NHL, including you know who. The guy absolutely 110% brought everything he had, and then some in that game. That gear is why he is the most dominant player in the game. It's just a shame the refs took that clean goal away from him. The thought of him in a SCF final game 7 is truly frightening. Let's just hope we get to see it sometime soon.


Last edited by MattBradleyKO: 05-24-2010 at 06:02 PM.
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05-24-2010, 05:59 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by ronnyweed View Post
alex will be a better player when he realizes that stoping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring, hes a captain and hes supposed to lead by example and rally his team to want to win at any cost
You're going to be a lot better message board poster when you realize that you can actually watch games and form your own opinions rather than just posting the same thing that other uninformed people pre-decided without actually gathering any evidence to make their own decisions.

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05-24-2010, 05:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Flashspec View Post
For the record, Ovechkin's production versus each division:

Atlantic: 126 points in 95 games (1.33 points/game)

Northeast: 131 points in 98 games (1.34 points/game)

Southeast: 195 points in 139 games (1.40 points/game)

West: 77 points in 64 games (1.20 points/game)

So he does TECHNICALLY score more points/game against the Southeast (1.40ppg against Southeast, 1.33ppg against the rest of the East)

right, but .07 is far from significant. It may as well be even. The "Ovechkin puts up all those numbers against the Southeast" talking point is simply stupid.

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05-24-2010, 06:58 PM
  #113
Flashspec
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
right, but .07 is far from significant. It may as well be even. The "Ovechkin puts up all those numbers against the Southeast" talking point is simply stupid.
Agreed, it definitely gets overblown by extreme Ovechkin haters.

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05-24-2010, 08:02 PM
  #114
Canuck21t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Hmmm......so in instances where Ovechkin's team didn't win he's 'not a winner' and only a numbers guy; yet on occasions he has won titles (WJC, WC) it's because of somebody else?

Tough crowd.
It all comes down to how he played. When you keep being invisible in big games, no matter if your team wins or looses, you're not a winner. Datsyuk did not win this year but boy did he played well. He had an impact on his team. If you would take out your tainted Russian glass, you'd see the true value of Ovechkin.

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05-24-2010, 08:15 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Hmmm......so in instances where Ovechkin's team didn't win he's 'not a winner' and only a numbers guy; yet on occasions he has won titles (WJC, WC) it's because of somebody else?

Tough crowd.
How many legacies of NHL players can you think of that have been built with WC and WJC wins?

The Cup and best-on-best tournaments have been the standard that players have been measured against since '76.

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05-24-2010, 08:20 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
You obviously don't watch him play. Rewatch game 7 against the Habs. The amount of results-oriented thinking on this website is unbearable. He was far and away the best player on the ice, and he was forechecking and backchecking like a mad man. I question whether or not you people even watch hockey, or if you just make it a point to spew all the standard bull **** HF boards party lines at every turn.

edit: The extra gear I saw Ovechkin hit in Game 7 against the Habs was something I haven't seen from any virtually any other player in the NHL, including you know who. The guy absolutely 110% brought everything he had, and then some in that game. That gear is why he is the most dominant player in the game. It's just a shame the refs took that clean goal away from him. The thought of him in a SCF final game 7 is truly frightening. Let's just hope we get to see it sometime soon.
I disagree and wonder if you watched the series against Montreal. See 0:34 of the following video for 110% effort?



Another great backcheck on this one?



That is two game-winning goals he decided were not worth the effort even attempting to get back on defense. He is a great offensive player, perhaps the best in the game, but let us not pretend that he exerts full effort towards the defensive side of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
The thought of him in a SCF final game 7 is truly frightening. Let's just hope we get to see it sometime soon.
A lot of people said the same thing before the Canada-Russia game and his performance left much to be desired - turnnovers, no defensive effort (perfect example of the two in combination was the Weber goal), and Weber & Doughty knocked him around all evening. Eventually Ovechkin just plain gave up; not frightening at all.


Last edited by Frank the Tank: 05-24-2010 at 08:25 PM.
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05-24-2010, 08:22 PM
  #117
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The guy is supposedly the best player in the world. If true, he should have multiple championships that he has led his team to. If true, he should not need internet dweebos to constantly defend him. If true, he should not have a season where his team failed miserably 3 times in the space of a few months.

He's a great player. As of now, he is NOT a great leader of men.

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05-24-2010, 09:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
I disagree and wonder if you watched the series against Montreal. See 0:34 of the following video for 110% effort?



Another great backcheck on this one?



That is two game-winning goals he decided were not worth the effort even attempting to get back on defense. He is a great offensive player, perhaps the best in the game, but let us not pretend that he exerts full effort towards the defensive side of the game.



A lot of people said the same thing before the Canada-Russia game and his performance left much to be desired - turnnovers, no defensive effort (perfect example of the two in combination was the Weber goal), and Weber & Doughty knocked him around all evening. Eventually Ovechkin just plain gave up; not frightening at all.

LOL at you if you think the first one is on him. That was a flat out miserable play by Green and a lazy backcheck by Carlson. As for the 2nd video, that was a very ill-advised line change, so he gets blame for it. As for the Olympics- who cares? The Russians were plainly overmatched, singling him out for not backchecking in a 7-2 drubbing is pretty foolish. The quarterfinals of the Olympics is not a game 7 in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.


Last edited by MattBradleyKO: 05-24-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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05-24-2010, 09:28 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
LOL at you if you think the first one is on him. That was a flat out miserable play by Green and a lazy backcheck by Carlson. As for the 2nd video, that was a very ill-advised step up, so he gets blame for it. As for the Olympics- who cares? The Russians were plainly overmatched, singling him out for not backchecking in a 7-2 drubbing is pretty foolish. The quarterfinals of the Olympics is not a game 7 in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
Foolish? You, not me, are the one who said "backchecking like a madman," and yet now you back away from the statement.

Who cares about the Olympics? The Canada-Russia game at the Olympics was considered as important or even more important than Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals (especially by a nationalistic individual like Ovechkin, a man who wears around his neck half of the lucky loonie buried at center ice during the 2008 WHC held in Canada).

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05-24-2010, 09:30 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by MattBradleyKO View Post
LOL at you if you think the first one is on him. That was a flat out miserable play by Green and a lazy backcheck by Carlson. As for the 2nd video, that was a very ill-advised line change, so he gets blame for it. As for the Olympics- who cares? The Russians were plainly overmatched, singling him out for not backchecking in a 7-2 drubbing is pretty foolish. The quarterfinals of the Olympics is not a game 7 in the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
I find it funny that you think it's unfair that many blame Ovechkin for big-game losses, when you never, ever give him any blame yourself. Because, of course, he's perfect.

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05-24-2010, 09:31 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
You, not me, are the one who said "backchecking like a madman," and yet now you back away from the statement.

Foolish? Who cares about the Olympics? The Canada-Russia game at the Olympics was considered as important or even more important than Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals (especially by a nationalistic individual like Ovechkin, a man who wears around his neck half of the lucky loonie buried at center ice during the 2008 WHC held in Canada).
I was talking about Game 7. Jesus christ, actually read the posts. This thread is about "important games", and people were flinging feces about his performance in Game 7s. Well, his performance in Game 7s has actually been pretty damn good if you, ya know, actually watched and paid attention. Either way, I don't see where I "backed off". You picked a couple goals where the first had nothing to do with him, and the 2nd was him going off for a line change. It's like every time there's an odd man rush against the Caps some idiot starts posting on HF boards "where was Ovechkin on that backcheck?!?" It's not always his responsibility to be the first forward back, he is a winger after all.

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05-24-2010, 09:35 PM
  #122
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Well, then I guess you won't mind if the highest paid player in the league continues in the same vein next year, then.

When the Caps win the Cup, it will be because Backstrom carries them, not Ovechkin.

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05-24-2010, 09:38 PM
  #123
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Ovechkin doesn't win gold, art ross, richard? He stinks

Crosby doesn't win Cup, Art Ross? He stinks


I am a big Pens fan and Ovechkin does need to very mildly alter his play but they are elite. Can't win em' all but I am happy as a Pens fan Ovechkin has yet to win it all.

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05-24-2010, 09:39 PM
  #124
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Well, then I guess you won't mind if the highest paid player in the league continues in the same vein next year, then.

When the Caps win the Cup, it will be because Backstrom carries them, not Ovechkin.
Yet another of my favorite HF boards sayings. If the Caps are to win the cup then it's NECESSARY for players like Backstrom and Green to bear some of the load, because the one consistent has been that Ovechkin has produced. It's why it was so important for Malkin to carry Pittsburgh last year.

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05-25-2010, 12:21 AM
  #125
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Yet another of my favorite HF boards sayings. If the Caps are to win the cup then it's NECESSARY for players like Backstrom and Green to bear some of the load, because the one consistent has been that Ovechkin has produced. It's why it was so important for Malkin to carry Pittsburgh last year.
Ha, good one.

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