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Derek Boogaard, should he return?

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Old
05-24-2010, 02:21 PM
  #26
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I wouldn't mind Scott back instead, it would still be as a 14th forward/8th active d-man(in reality he'd be below 4 guys in Houston if for a long period). The 14th forward should be your cheapest forward, which is why I wouldn't want to spend more than 600k. Also, if Bouchard plays the "goon" may have to go down to the minors, as I expect him to begin the season on IR.
That's the problem with re-signing Scott. While he would be cheap (something around $600k-750k), it would most likely be another one-way contract. Provided a few moves aren't made, doing that would leave Scott as the sixth/seventh defenseman with Stoner and I don't know how confident the Wild are in doing that.

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05-24-2010, 02:43 PM
  #27
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If they don't resign Boogard then your likely looking at Matt Kassian getting the job. The good enforcers don't need to fight which is exactly what Boogie does; once you've pounded most of the other fighters in hockey other teams don't bring the non-sense to the table. I tend to agree with others that Boogie, Nolan, Hnidy and Scott will not be brought back which could make the Wild the marshmellows of the Western Conference.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's a great player but he serves a role and allows his smaller teammates to play a bit bigger. Personally I believe he will get 3 yrs for around $1.1m/yr. from someone who wants to protect their skilled players. This will be just another area the Wild will fall short next season because unless Kassian can accept the role they are in trouble.

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05-25-2010, 07:51 AM
  #28
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God that "too late" Konopka trade with Tampa (Konopka, a 3rd and a 4th for Boogaard i think it was) looks like the deal of the century.

Granted Tampa didn't know what they were doing but Boogaard has more value than what some haters would like to admit. Another "walk for nothing" situation, but at least this time it wasn't for lack of trying. Gotta think that the fact we were trading him wouldn't make him keen on re-signing here even if we offered.

Just hope he stays out of the NW.

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05-25-2010, 10:38 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GopherState View Post
That's the problem with re-signing Scott. While he would be cheap (something around $600k-750k), it would most likely be another one-way contract. Provided a few moves aren't made, doing that would leave Scott as the sixth/seventh defenseman with Stoner and I don't know how confident the Wild are in doing that.
We're going to be carrying 22 or 23 players, so Scott would be the 13th or 14th forward. We'd have 7 d-men on the active roster, none of which would be him. If nothing changes, I see it as Prosser's job to lose(seeing as how he is 24), while Scandella can certainly win a job(seeing how many considered him the best d-man in the QMJHL this year). I see Stoner as our #7 for this year, and possibly next if they feel the prospects(Cuma/Falk/Scandella/Prosser) need more time in the AHL. Scandella/Prosser would play with Schultz unless he's dealt, which would mean a UFA would be brought in for that spot.

Theres also a chance Sifers signs another 2-way with us, which would give us another option in front of Scott should he return.

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05-25-2010, 12:00 PM
  #30
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Boogaard won't take a pay cut, and he can't play hockey. No thanks.

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05-25-2010, 12:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
We're going to be carrying 22 or 23 players, so Scott would be the 13th or 14th forward. We'd have 7 d-men on the active roster, none of which would be him. If nothing changes, I see it as Prosser's job to lose(seeing as how he is 24), while Scandella can certainly win a job(seeing how many considered him the best d-man in the QMJHL this year). I see Stoner as our #7 for this year, and possibly next if they feel the prospects(Cuma/Falk/Scandella/Prosser) need more time in the AHL. Scandella/Prosser would play with Schultz unless he's dealt, which would mean a UFA would be brought in for that spot.

Theres also a chance Sifers signs another 2-way with us, which would give us another option in front of Scott should he return.
I don't think it's a given that Prosser will start with the big club next season and would probably put Stoner ahead of him provided he has recovered from hernia surgery.

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05-25-2010, 05:06 PM
  #32
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There's going to be a ton of competition for the 6th/7th D spot. I don't see us really signing anyone except for depth of course, but there will be a ton of competition this year in training camp.

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05-30-2010, 03:40 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by NM Squirts View Post
If they don't resign Boogard then your likely looking at Matt Kassian getting the job. The good enforcers don't need to fight which is exactly what Boogie does; once you've pounded most of the other fighters in hockey other teams don't bring the non-sense to the table. I tend to agree with others that Boogie, Nolan, Hnidy and Scott will not be brought back which could make the Wild the marshmellows of the Western Conference.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he's a great player but he serves a role and allows his smaller teammates to play a bit bigger. Personally I believe he will get 3 yrs for around $1.1m/yr. from someone who wants to protect their skilled players. This will be just another area the Wild will fall short next season because unless Kassian can accept the role they are in trouble.
no doubt about Boogies super-toughness.
he is the poster boy for tough.

however.
in the new nhl.
i think that Kassian can and will accept the protect role.
and.
i think that he will excel at it.
plus.
if they re-sign kassian for $550-600 K over two they will save $1.2 mil.
plus.
kassian may be able to do something Boogie can't do and doesn't do.

skate.
shoot.
score.

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05-30-2010, 04:42 PM
  #34
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If Kassian can score 1 goal, it'll be an improvement.

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05-30-2010, 05:09 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by mnwildgophers View Post
If Kassian can score 1 goal, it'll be an improvement.
Well John Scott did score a goal as a forward, so that isn't entirely true.

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05-31-2010, 03:03 PM
  #36
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The time is right to bring up Kassian. His offensive abilities already dwarfs Boogaard's.

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06-02-2010, 10:21 PM
  #37
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No. He is useless. Makes about a million to play about 5 or less minutes per game and has no abilities at all. No one is even willing to fight him anymore.
Couldn't have been said much better.

Look at the teams that went far in the playoffs. Do any of them have a player that fits what Boogaard does for the Wild? Not at all. They have gameday rosters full of guys who can play regular shifts. Boogaard cannot.

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06-03-2010, 12:08 AM
  #38
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Couldn't have been said much better.

Look at the teams that went far in the playoffs. Do any of them have a player that fits what Boogaard does for the Wild? Not at all. They have gameday rosters full of guys who can play regular shifts. Boogaard cannot.
I don't know. I mean I like Shelly a lot but he's a heavy weight, was dressed and was on the roster for the Sharks this year. He scored 0 goals.

You also got Ian LaPierre and Aaron Asham (well they can at least score goals)

Hell Boston had Shawn Thornton (1 goal).

Vancouver had Darcy Hordichuk.

Thing is, Minnesota plays in a very tough division. I wouldn't call up Kassian and outside of Clutterbuck, who do we have really?

We have a very soft line up both in the minors and in the NHL and until we get a couple of guys like Clutterbuck, we're going to have guys taking cheap shots at our players because they can't do crap about it.

I would love to get Carcillo here but he would cost too much.

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06-03-2010, 12:30 AM
  #39
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Shelley played a grand total of 36 games for the Sharks this season... not even half.

Thornton and Hordichuk are like top 6 forwards when compared to Boogaard. They have the ability to play a regular shift without being as big of a liability.

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06-03-2010, 03:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Shelley played a grand total of 36 games for the Sharks this season... not even half.

Thornton and Hordichuk are like top 6 forwards when compared to Boogaard. They have the ability to play a regular shift without being as big of a liability.
Shelley also played 70 games last season.

Thornton had one whopping goal.

But again, where does our toughness come from?

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06-03-2010, 04:13 PM
  #41
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Boogaard doesn't make a team tough, the team has to be tough to begin with. All Boogaard does is take three shifts a game, miss a couple big checks, get elbowing calls, and fight a few other heavyweights. He hasn't prevented any of our big injuries (Koivu slash, Sykora elbow, Johnsson sucker punch).

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06-03-2010, 07:04 PM
  #42
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again, players have said his presence on the bench gives them confidence to play physically. It isn't just about what he does or doesn't do on the ice. I find it interesting how some people will reject trade proposal after trade proposal involving Koivu because "the stats aren't the whole story" (in determining his value) while when it comes to someone who's role isn't even about stats gets nothing but "baawww! zero goals, 5 min/night!"

I'm not implying he's an awesome hockey player or irreplaceable, but he does serve a purpose. he's probably a little more important than he should be because the rest of our lineup is filled with spineless nancies. who on this team are actually willing to stand up for team mates? Nolan (gone), Sheppard (maybe gone), Hnidy (gone), Scott (gone), Boogaard (gone). Miss anyone? clutterbuck can do only so much--and he'll get tuned more often than not if he comes between a Havlat and a Stortini.

With our cap, spending $1 million on a one dimensional thug makes zero sense, and I agree we'd be better off using that on something else, but I predict the team will get worse in the "toughness" department next season. I'm not talking about fights--just getting pushed around in general. Unless we take a gigantic leap up in offense the team will be harder to watch w/out boogaard in the lineup than it was with him last year. Watching us play last year I shudder to think of us playing any softer.

neither of the teams in the finals has a goon...well, they both have first line center captains that play more physically than ours. It isn't the whole story, but the lead by example maxim has to have a little relevance.

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06-03-2010, 07:14 PM
  #43
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Players always try to "say" good things about their teammates. They're not going to go out and say "My pal can't really play this game, and we'd be a better team without him".

What a player says about another player on their team can only be taken as a grain of salt when it comes to someone like Boogie.

If the Wild can find another tough guy instead, who can play more of a Ben Eager type game, they'd be MUCH better off. You'd then have the players saying the same thing about him, but likely meaning what they say a little more since he wouldn't be such a liability to the actual game being played.

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06-03-2010, 07:17 PM
  #44
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Players always try to "say" good things about their teammates. They're not going to go out and say "My pal can't really play this game, and we'd be a better team without him".

What a player says about another player on their team can only be taken as a grain of salt when it comes to someone like Boogie.

If the Wild can find another tough guy instead, who can play more of a Ben Eager type game, they'd be MUCH better off. You'd then have the players saying the same thing about him, but likely meaning what they say a little more since he wouldn't be such a liability to the actual game being played.
Colton Orr got a decent contract last year though, so IMO you'd be paying more if you thought the guy could play. However, paying a clown on skates like Boogaard much more than the league minimum is pointless. Clowns on skates are a dime a dozen, why spend more on one than the other if they can serve the same purpose. I'd say John Scott at the league minimum would be nice as the #14F/#8D.

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06-03-2010, 07:22 PM
  #45
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What a player says about another player on their team can only be taken as a grain of salt when it comes to someone like Boogie.
Seriously, who wants to deal with the consequences of badmouthing a 6'7" 260 lbs enforcer?

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06-03-2010, 07:30 PM
  #46
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I realize players will say nice things about their team mates, but I've seen that one more than once. by the coach, too. i think Lemaire and Richards have both said something to that effect, actually.

Still, I do mostly take it with a grain of salt. exactly why i roll my eyes when people bring up Rolston calling Koivu "franchise". as a teammate you tend to find someone you think fills a valuable role and over-state their importance.

I would much rather find an Eager (or before the face breaking Fedoruk) or two to put out there as well, but with our lineup right now and the limited ice we'll be able to afford them I think they'd have as little impact as Boogaard. just an opinion--there is no quick, one-season fix for our toughness issues, but we're def. taking a step backward next year with or w/out boogaard.

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06-03-2010, 07:37 PM
  #47
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Colton Orr got a decent contract last year though, so IMO you'd be paying more if you thought the guy could play. However, paying a clown on skates like Boogaard much more than the league minimum is pointless. Clowns on skates are a dime a dozen, why spend more on one than the other if they can serve the same purpose. I'd say John Scott at the league minimum would be nice as the #14F/#8D.
whatever the stats say, watching Orr on ice doesn't leave me with the impression that he's better at anything than boogaard.

Boog's almost certainly done here--i think the fact that we had a deal in place (which TB flubbed by forgetting which draft picks they had) for him will make him inclined to seek employment elsewhere even if we do tender an offer. It would be seriously crazy if he ended up on the Oilers.

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06-03-2010, 07:44 PM
  #48
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whatever the stats say, watching Orr on ice doesn't leave me with the impression that he's better at anything than boogaard.
I'd say Orr is a much better skater and more agile, and does a much better job targeting high-end players than Boogaard because of that. As for skill, you shouldn't need your "goon" to score goals. Your "goon" shouldn't be playing every night either, just against certain teams which you feel you need him. So if he isn't meant to score or play every night, why bother paying him much? McGrattan, Shelley, Scott, Ivanans, Belak, there are options there other than Boogaard, and if I'm GM, I'm taking the cheapest option possible.

If we want a player who can fight a little and take a regular shift, how about Brad Winchester? Scored 16 goals between the last 2 years(13 in 08/09), 6'5 with 17 NHL majors the last 2 years. He's not a heavyweight, but he will fight.

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06-03-2010, 07:51 PM
  #49
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i disagree with your Orr skating/agility assessment. He's probably one of only a few players I would put behind boogaard in that area, actually.

related news, Avs just re-signed Koci.


well, that's one division rival that won't pick up Boogaard.

edit: Winchester wouldn't be bad at all in trying to increase team toughness. Andy Sutton, too.

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06-03-2010, 08:42 PM
  #50
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I realize players will say nice things about their team mates, but I've seen that one more than once. by the coach, too. i think Lemaire and Richards have both said something to that effect, actually.

Still, I do mostly take it with a grain of salt. exactly why i roll my eyes when people bring up Rolston calling Koivu "franchise". as a teammate you tend to find someone you think fills a valuable role and over-state their importance.

I would much rather find an Eager (or before the face breaking Fedoruk) or two to put out there as well, but with our lineup right now and the limited ice we'll be able to afford them I think they'd have as little impact as Boogaard. just an opinion--there is no quick, one-season fix for our toughness issues, but we're def. taking a step backward next year with or w/out boogaard.
I'm not saying whoever fills the roll would have greater impact, we're obviously talking about a 4th liner either way. The thing is, you find someone who can actually play the game on a regular shift, and you don't have to worry about the liability aspect near as much.

Boogaard has a tough guy role, true, but when he is actually on the ice the Wild are at a huge disadvantage because of it. A player who can play that role while playing as a respectable 4th liner talent wise as well is overall much better.

I'd rather let go of Boogie and try to develop a new player to fill the role at league minimum than to pay the extreme overprice that Boogaard is likely to get if he were to stay.

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