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The sad state of Swedish coaching

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Old
05-23-2010, 05:30 PM
  #51
plattnacken
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I'm just glad to see him go. Hopefully Mårts will be an improvement, even though he didn't impress me in the juniors.

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05-23-2010, 06:59 PM
  #52
Ribban
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Originally Posted by Crazyhorse View Post
Ribban is really on a roll, deciding what swedish fans and players thinks about every tournament there is. Lay off man.
Is there a hockey event that you care about? Would you be happy if Timo Lahtinen took over instead of Mårts?

I agree that Mårts is no messias, but he won't be as bad as BÅG. And demanding that Swedish juniors should win on Canadas home soil when they really doesn't compare position to position, is a little to much IMO.

What did you think about BÅGs coaching at the olympics in Vancouver? His selections, his persisting on the philosophy of "sossehockey"(basically giving every player a equal amount o pp-time, just for the fairness of it). Why did BÅG leave out a guy like Tomas Holmström in Turin, a guy who was instrumental for our win, and decide to add him just because someone got hurt?

I agree with you that Näslund and alot of people in the federation has a responsibility aswell, espacially the arrogant Näslund. There is a need for alot of changes, but removing BÅG is a instrumental first step.
1. As far as me deciding what Swedish fans & players care about... If you didn't get the point of that post, I don't think I can help you. Given the post I was responding to , it was fairly ****ing obvious.

2. Uh, oh... It's getting better.... Timo instead of Mårts? What kind of ridiculous argument are you trying to make?!?! What's next? Pokemon cards comparisons?!

3. I'm demanding anything of the Jr. Crowns?!?! You have got to be kidding me?! 2010 - Canada. 2009 - Canada, 2008 - Czech Republic. 2007 - Sweden. The "we were playing in Canada" excuse is pretty much what we've heard for years, and you are quick to play that card again. Good to hear that makes you happy, and a bummer for Sweden if we have to wait until we are 100% stacked again and the tourney happens in our "approved" venue. Seems like we have some waiting in front of us. Congrats for also missing the context in which I discussed the absent gold medals. What I really ojbected to, but you obviously didn't get that either, is HOW they lost and behaved, and if that is a sign to come with Tre Kronor under Mårts, I'll probably quit watching these tourneys altogether. Ottawa was not only a loss, but it was embarrassing. Too bad that you and the brain trust haven't figured out why, and why people outside Sweden refer to the Swedes as chickens and yellow bellies... HINT: It has nothing to do with how much or how little we fight, spear, or cross check. Good luck with that, btw.

4. My opinions about BÅG have been declared in no uncertain terms, frequently, and long before the rest of you decided that something wasn't right in paradise, even in 2006, when the whole Holmström circus began. If I were motivated enough, I'd post the links with the responses I got from questioning the the Swedish Utopia, and the untouchable BÅG, Gyllene BÅG, and all the other cute stuff people came up with in 2006. Funny how things change in the land of "experts."

5. I don't know where you are getting that I am pointing out the BÅG doesn't need to go, but you have indeed proved quite creative already, so who knows?! But, until the puppet theatre, called the SIHA, changes, who cares what they call the puppets?


Last edited by Ribban: 05-23-2010 at 10:56 PM. Reason: correcting a preposition
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Old
05-23-2010, 07:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by plattnacken View Post
I'm just glad to see him go. Hopefully Mårts will be an improvement, even though he didn't impress me in the juniors.
This is something I dont understand. Sweden has won 1 gold medal at WJC and that was in 1983. The WJC is much much much tougher to win than the world championship for sweden. Marts scoring 2 silvers and 1 bronze at that tournament is a great achievement. It seems that some hockeyfans cannot grasp this.

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05-23-2010, 07:28 PM
  #54
Ribban
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Originally Posted by snipethesniper View Post
This is something I dont understand. Sweden has won 1 gold medal at WJC and that was in 1983. The WJC is much much much tougher to win than the world championship for sweden. Marts scoring 2 silvers and 1 bronze at that tournament is a great achievement. It seems that some hockeyfans cannot grasp this.
In all honesty, it's not about the placement. It's about things like scouting, team selections, game time decisions/adjustments or blunt lack of them, and as I pointed out before, the unforgivable melt down in Ottawa and before this years tourney (after Cromnie nailed Rodin), when he acted like a kid in front of the kids, instead of providing real, adult, leadership and focus on winning the game, as opposed to pouting and screaming at the refs. Where was the shrink then?!

Maybe things will change dramatically when it's the men's team, but the U-20 legacy is not reassuring. The only positive is the actual medal count, but then again, he has had pretty impressive talent to work with.

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05-23-2010, 07:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ribban View Post
In all honesty, it's not about the placement. It's about things like scouting, team selections, game time decisions/adjustments or blunt lack of them, and as I pointed out before, the unforgivable melt down in Ottawa and before this years tourney (after Cromnie nailed Rodin), when he acted like a kid in front of the kids, instead of providing real, adult, leadership and focus on winning the game, as opposed to pouting and screaming at the refs. Where was the shrink then?!

Maybe things will change dramatically when it's the men's team, but the U-20 legacy is not reassuring. The only positive is the actual medal count, but then again, he has had pretty impressive talent to work with.
wtf, you complain at marts selections, but they are lightyears better than BÅG's. And lets not go there with the talent, because sweden has had some impressive lineups in the past that only got us a 7th place or so.

1993 was the best swedish wjc team ever and it still only got us a silver. And then we have had zetterberg, the sedins etc to work with which came down to nothing.

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05-23-2010, 08:23 PM
  #56
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I would agree that Mårts is much better than Gustavsson but I also have a few grudges about how Mårts managed the junior teams.

The gameplay of the swedish junior team resembled "The red machine" of the 80s but if you go from big to small ice the game is different and juniors arent really good enough to play such game. The main problem of swedish hockey is that our D's cant deliver pucks fast and accurate from defensive zone. In the juniors those D's got into problems because they coudnt handle the time pressure on small ice. In Sweden they play mostly a east-west cycling/passing game, in NA is north-south passing/checking game. This makes the swedish team very vulnerable and that killed us in the WJC even if we had the talent to win.

I do belive that Mårts should have picked a D from junior leagus in Canada but more importently I also think Mårts didnt play the right game with the right players. The idea of putting MPS with Andre Petterson is bewildering since neither MPS or Petterson passes the puck very well. They are both player that normally finishes an attack. This line selection, putting two of the teams most dangerous forwards on one line was a mistake that made the 1st line in this years WJC weak and without puck possession.

I do believe Mårts is better than BÅG (BÅG is clueless about swedish NA players) but its not a perfect choice if you want to win. Mårts doesnt know how to beat NA teams and that is his main weakness.

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05-23-2010, 08:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Matte99 View Post
I would agree that Mårts is much better than Gustavsson but I also have a few grudges about how Mårts managed the junior teams.

The gameplay of the swedish junior team resembled "The red machine" of the 80s but if you go from big to small ice the game is different and juniors arent really good enough to play such game. The main problem of swedish hockey is that our D's cant deliver pucks fast and accurate from defensive zone. In the juniors those D's got into problems because they coudnt handle the time pressure on small ice. In Sweden they play mostly a east-west cycling/passing game, in NA is north-south passing/checking game. This makes the swedish team very vulnerable and that killed us in the WJC even if we had the talent to win.

I do belive that Mårts should have picked a D from junior leagus in Canada but more importently I also think Mårts didnt play the right game with the right players. The idea of putting MPS with Andre Petterson is bewildering since neither MPS or Petterson passes the puck very well. They are both player that normally finishes an attack. This line selection, putting two of the teams most dangerous forwards on one line was a mistake that made the 1st line in this years WJC weak and without puck possession.

I do believe Mårts is better than BÅG (BÅG is clueless about swedish NA players) but its not a perfect choice if you want to win. Mårts doesnt know how to beat NA teams and that is his main weakness.
that's not true, we just had some bad luck that we ran into unbelievable good talent class from Canada. Right now I think it is a perfect choice, because his philosophy has worked. He medaled 3 times in a row. Look at the russians, they won nothing lately.

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05-23-2010, 10:39 PM
  #58
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HAHAHAHA.

I like BÅG a lot more now.

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05-23-2010, 11:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by snipethesniper View Post
wtf, you complain at marts selections, but they are lightyears better than BÅG's. And lets not go there with the talent, because sweden has had some impressive lineups in the past that only got us a 7th place or so.

1993 was the best swedish wjc team ever and it still only got us a silver. And then we have had zetterberg, the sedins etc to work with which came down to nothing.

What does that have to do with anything I have written?

What impressive lineup did we have that earned us a 7th place?

Just because I'm not jumping for joy about what I have seen from Mårts, am I breaking some ****ing law of yours, or am I somehow defending BÅG?

I find it funny that you focused in on line-ups considering all the other reasons I listed to why I don't like what I've seen. Tell me, pal, does it make you really proud when you see a bunch of kids diving and flopping around in a WJC Final, completely taken out of their game for no good reason, and the coach is standing on the bench yelling at the refs, even though he doesn't have a case, instead of taking control of the situation and get his players back to playing hockey the way that earned them a spot in the final to begin with?

Does it impress you when he is unavailable and snippy with the Canadian press because a stupid kid pulled a jack move before a tournament? Is it cool when he makes statements to why a guy gets cut when he has no clue of what and how the kid is used in his club team, and the guy has never had a chance to show him?`... or telling people who show up that X, Y, or Z is going to happen, and it doesn't happen? This you celebrate`and support?

Btw, let's go there with talent. Becasue, Sweden has had a very good couple of years with great talent in key positions, and only Canada and the US have been close to match us in both talent and depth. The rest of the world has been so-so for a few years (one or two here and there, but not like the three mentioned). Winning a medal is not easy, but it certainly isn't another MIracle on Ice under the circumstances.

As far as picking the line-up, I'm complaining about the same arrogance and/or lack of knowledge of the kids who are playing outside the comfort zone of scouting. The same complaints about poor communication and lack of insight about how players are used and succeed in the club teams pop up no matter the coach. Is this s product of the coach or the model in which the coach is asked to work? I believe the latter, which is why I doubt much will change with a new coach unless the attitude and the model he works in changes as well.

I'm glad BÅG is gone. Mårts has not impressed me, and the current attitude of the federation is bothering me. You can read it which ever way you want, and if you have a man crush on Mårts, great for you. He'll be on TV for a while to come.

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05-23-2010, 11:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Matte99 View Post
I would agree that Mårts is much better than Gustavsson but I also have a few grudges about how Mårts managed the junior teams.

The gameplay of the swedish junior team resembled "The red machine" of the 80s but if you go from big to small ice the game is different and juniors arent really good enough to play such game. The main problem of swedish hockey is that our D's cant deliver pucks fast and accurate from defensive zone. In the juniors those D's got into problems because they coudnt handle the time pressure on small ice. In Sweden they play mostly a east-west cycling/passing game, in NA is north-south passing/checking game. This makes the swedish team very vulnerable and that killed us in the WJC even if we had the talent to win.

I do belive that Mårts should have picked a D from junior leagus in Canada but more importently I also think Mårts didnt play the right game with the right players. The idea of putting MPS with Andre Petterson is bewildering since neither MPS or Petterson passes the puck very well. They are both player that normally finishes an attack. This line selection, putting two of the teams most dangerous forwards on one line was a mistake that made the 1st line in this years WJC weak and without puck possession.

I do believe Mårts is better than BÅG (BÅG is clueless about swedish NA players) but its not a perfect choice if you want to win. Mårts doesnt know how to beat NA teams and that is his main weakness.
This

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05-24-2010, 01:58 AM
  #61
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that's not true, we just had some bad luck that we ran into unbelievable good talent class from Canada. Right now I think it is a perfect choice, because his philosophy has worked. He medaled 3 times in a row. Look at the russians, they won nothing lately.
The poor luck seemed to continue against the USA, and somehow they were able to win it all despite having to play Canada in Canada. See a pattern here?

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05-24-2010, 04:38 AM
  #62
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Gotta love BÅG, one of few people with a little guts in him. To have the strength to stand up to both the juvenile media and the large mob of idiotic fans takes a lot of character. He's gained a lot of respect in my book.

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05-24-2010, 04:46 AM
  #63
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Gotta love BÅG, one of few people with a little guts in him. To have the strength to stand up to both the juvenile media and the large mob of idiotic fans takes a lot of character. He's gained a lot of respect in my book.
I agree. Seeing the idiotic reactions of Swedish fans after the semi-final, that was a great way to piss them off a little further. Those guys have probably never played a 55-second shift themselves and felt how tired that can make you. Serves them right.

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05-24-2010, 05:17 AM
  #64
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Calling a time one with one second left was the most disrespectful thing I have ever watched. For a few seconds I hoped a bench clearer will emerge out of this situation.

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05-24-2010, 06:02 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Ribban View Post
The poor luck seemed to continue against the USA, and somehow they were able to win it all despite having to play Canada in Canada. See a pattern here?
you dont know anything about hockey. We medaled 3 years in a row with mårts in a tournament sweden had got regulated in earlier. Imagine båg as a wjc coach

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Calling a time one with one second left was the most disrespectful thing I have ever watched. For a few seconds I hoped a bench clearer will emerge out of this situation.
i hope he never coaches again.

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05-24-2010, 06:12 AM
  #66
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Calling a time one with one second left was the most disrespectful thing I have ever watched. For a few seconds I hoped a bench clearer will emerge out of this situation.
Hmm, yea, almost as disrespectful and cowardly as jumping three to one in a brawl, and then having your coach come in as the fourth man.

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05-24-2010, 07:18 AM
  #67
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Don't know what to think. First reaction was to be embarrased for the timeout whit 1 sec. to go. Now I think it was booth a smart and bold move to do. Now he will be remembered for beeing a stubborn coach whit his own mind and a sense of humor instead of a bad coach taking questionable decisions.

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05-24-2010, 11:38 AM
  #68
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you dont know anything about hockey. We medaled 3 years in a row with mårts in a tournament sweden had got regulated in earlier. Imagine båg as a wjc coach



i hope he never coaches again.
No answers? Just running your motuh, ehe? Why don't you educate me then?
How's listing the impressive line up you talked about that ended up 7th coming? When were Sweden regulated?

Please tell me about how the game is played!! Somebody wrote a succinct and clear summary of why he, I, and many others thought we lost to Canada and the USA in the WJC's. Your answer: "Not true." According to you, we lost becasue they had more talent than us?!? That's some hockey knowledge you've got there!

Nice going, bubba.


Last edited by Ribban: 05-24-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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05-24-2010, 11:45 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Toni Porkka View Post
Calling a time one with one second left was the most disrespectful thing I have ever watched. For a few seconds I hoped a bench clearer will emerge out of this situation.
I don't think the Germans should be talking about disrespect from coaches. Wasn't your coach involved in a fight himself against a Swiss player?

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05-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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I don't think the Germans should be talking about disrespect from coaches. Wasn't your coach involved in a fight himself against a Swiss player?
Do you always compare apples with pears?

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05-24-2010, 12:07 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Toni Porkka View Post
Calling a time one with one second left was the most disrespectful thing I have ever watched. For a few seconds I hoped a bench clearer will emerge out of this situation.
Whereas one could argue that it was infantile to act like that, it wasn't directed at the Germans. Apparently the German coaching staff was informed after the game that it was BÅG's attempt to ridicule Swedish media.



Unprofessional to say the least. Unfortunately, not very surprising.

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05-24-2010, 02:16 PM
  #72
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Is Mårts really going to be an improvement? As others have pointed out, he made the same mistakes with the juniors as BÅG did with the NT. He's just as bad from a PR point of view, and while BÅG actually won something when he had a stacked team, Mårts didn't. Also, picking someone who's served the federation for many years for the head coach job doesn't seem that fresh.

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05-24-2010, 05:34 PM
  #73
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Mårts is actually a seasoned trainer compared to BÅG. He actually has a game plan. Mårts probably has a good relationship to the upcoming generation players. We can hope those players improved their game enough to execute his tactics better.

BTW:
A downside is that Mårts aggravated Swedish talents playing junior hockey in NA when he didn't bother to give them a fair chance to be on the team.

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05-24-2010, 05:49 PM
  #74
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What does that have to do with anything I have written?

What impressive lineup did we have that earned us a 7th place?

Just because I'm not jumping for joy about what I have seen from Mårts, am I breaking some ****ing law of yours, or am I somehow defending BÅG?

I find it funny that you focused in on line-ups considering all the other reasons I listed to why I don't like what I've seen. Tell me, pal, does it make you really proud when you see a bunch of kids diving and flopping around in a WJC Final, completely taken out of their game for no good reason, and the coach is standing on the bench yelling at the refs, even though he doesn't have a case, instead of taking control of the situation and get his players back to playing hockey the way that earned them a spot in the final to begin with?

Does it impress you when he is unavailable and snippy with the Canadian press because a stupid kid pulled a jack move before a tournament? Is it cool when he makes statements to why a guy gets cut when he has no clue of what and how the kid is used in his club team, and the guy has never had a chance to show him?`... or telling people who show up that X, Y, or Z is going to happen, and it doesn't happen? This you celebrate`and support?

Btw, let's go there with talent. Becasue, Sweden has had a very good couple of years with great talent in key positions, and only Canada and the US have been close to match us in both talent and depth. The rest of the world has been so-so for a few years (one or two here and there, but not like the three mentioned). Winning a medal is not easy, but it certainly isn't another MIracle on Ice under the circumstances.

As far as picking the line-up, I'm complaining about the same arrogance and/or lack of knowledge of the kids who are playing outside the comfort zone of scouting. The same complaints about poor communication and lack of insight about how players are used and succeed in the club teams pop up no matter the coach. Is this s product of the coach or the model in which the coach is asked to work? I believe the latter, which is why I doubt much will change with a new coach unless the attitude and the model he works in changes as well.

I'm glad BÅG is gone. Mårts has not impressed me, and the current attitude of the federation is bothering me. You can read it which ever way you want, and if you have a man crush on Mårts, great for you. He'll be on TV for a while to come.
I see where you are coming from and those are very legit worries about Mårts. He did a few good things as well, lets not be all negative. Mårts comes a cross as a philosopher and he is trying to turn the Swedish model upside down (Ego before team).

It was upsetting to see both the diving of Markström as the blatant attacks from the Canadian players. The leading player, Backlund, was totally over the edge and flipped early on to hand the initiative to the Canadians too. The team fell to pieces and couldn't handle the situation.

But lets not forget: Canadian hockey is very dirty and considered unsportsmanlike in Sweden. Also, Cormier seems to be psycho and one can only wonder who the h*ll gave him the C for their junior team. In Sweden we wouldn't support such behaviour because for us sports is sport. You play by the rules that defines the game and may the best team win.

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05-24-2010, 06:52 PM
  #75
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but to leave a tremendous young d-man like edler at home was indeed... uuhhm...surprising.
Considering Edler isn't all that much better than anyone except Johansson on that roster it was no surprise at all.

He stunk big time when he played for Sweden in the world champs. It was MUCH better to choose someone who has played well. Edler will get his chances but he played himself off the Olympic team himself.

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