HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Notices

Canucks need playoff experience players

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-15-2010, 11:30 AM
  #1
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Canucks need playoff experience players

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=321549


Any chance that Sully, Arny, or Dumont waive their NMC's to go to a solid team like the Canucks???? I think Sully or Arnott would be ideal for vancouver.

Only other problem is the good old salary cap!


Any thoughts??


There is some nice young talent I would not mind seeing in Nashville from the Canucks, if we can give them players for the present to try for a cup.

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 11:35 AM
  #2
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,694
vCash: 500
Jason Arnott would be a nice addition to the Canucks, but salary space could be an issue. Mason Raymond is a player I think could be made available depending on what he's asking for, what types of moves Gillis is able to make on the backend and whether Gillis can find a suitable replacement for Raymond up front.

Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 12:09 PM
  #3
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Read the article though, Gillis doesn't want to give up any of his good young talent to get players. He had offers for some players that were ridiculous and he wasn't going to part with young guys. I could see Arnott going for picks but that's about it.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 12:23 PM
  #4
MarkMM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Delta, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 940
vCash: 500
I personally don't think Arnott would be considered all that highly, Gillis has stressed from the day he was hired that above all he looks for "integrity, intelligence and character", I think there'd be too many questions about a captain who seems to take nights/playoffs off. Given that we're up against the cap as it is, and Gillis' philosophy about building from within but supplementing with good-value playoff experience, Arnott doesn't fit that mould. He tried to add Stanley Cup championship experience with Samuelsson (home run), Lukowich and Mathieu Schneider (both of which didn't work out as planned). I see him more interested in another Samuelsson type move, a playoff/Stanley Cup experienced player who doesn't fit on his team anymore and can be brought in to add to our young core.

Where Nashville is strong and Vancouver is weak is in your defense, be it the rights to Hamhuis or one of Weber/Suter as has been mentioned, that's where a trade may happen. There's speculation from a poster who has proven links to the Canucks on a Vancouver discussion forum that we went after Hamhuis but Poile's asking price was Hodgson +, and that was just out of the question.

MarkMM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 12:32 PM
  #5
Soundgarden
Registered User
 
Soundgarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 6,215
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMM View Post
Where Nashville is strong and Vancouver is weak is in your defense, be it the rights to Hamhuis or one of Weber/Suter as has been mentioned, that's where a trade may happen. There's speculation from a poster who has proven links to the Canucks on a Vancouver discussion forum that we went after Hamhuis but Poile's asking price was Hodgson +, and that was just out of the question.
Suter and Weber are not for trade they are our Sedin twins. Yes we can and will be able to afford them no they are not for trade and yes we will be able to afford them.


Now that we got that out of the way, I really think a trade with the Canucks can work out, it just makes too much sense. I wouldn't know what to offer or the value of many of your players.

Soundgarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 02:16 PM
  #6
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Suter and Weber are not for trade they are our Sedin twins. Yes we can and will be able to afford them no they are not for trade and yes we will be able to afford them.
How do you know? We've never paid someone more than 4.5 million, and we are for sure going to pay 2 dmen potentially 6-7million each? I read people saying they think Weber will give a home-town discount to the Preds. Based on what? Wishful thinking?

Also, there are no guarantees that Weber and Suter have a strong desire stay here. Suter may want to test FA in 2 years, especially if the direction of the team is not good.

These are questions we can't answer. What I don't understand is when people have a strong opinion about it either way.

This is up to Poile to figure out. He should start negotiating with Weber on July 1. If he doesn't think it's likely he's going to be a long-term Pred, or he wants something like 8m, then we have to look at trading him.

dulzhok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 02:29 PM
  #7
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
How do you know? We've never paid someone more than 4.5 million, and we are for sure going to pay 2 dmen potentially 6-7million each? I read people saying they think Weber will give a home-town discount to the Preds. Based on what? Wishful thinking?

Also, there are no guarantees that Weber and Suter have a strong desire stay here. Suter may want to test FA in 2 years, especially if the direction of the team is not good.

These are questions we can't answer. What I don't understand is when people have a strong opinion about it either way.

This is up to Poile to figure out. He should start negotiating with Weber on July 1. If he doesn't think it's likely he's going to be a long-term Pred, or he wants something like 8m, then we have to look at trading him.

We could afford both Webs and Suts, but do we really want to have roughly 14-15 million tied up in two guys on defense???

I saw re sign Weber, trade Suter to the Canucks for a package like Hodgson, Kesler, and 1st rounder??? I know Gillis doesnt want to deal young talent, but to get a guy like Suter you will have to.


I still like the basis of Arnott, Sullivan, or Dumont going there and waiving their NMC's!

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 03:13 PM
  #8
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
How do you know? We've never paid someone more than 4.5 million, and we are for sure going to pay 2 dmen potentially 6-7million each? I read people saying they think Weber will give a home-town discount to the Preds. Based on what? Wishful thinking?

Also, there are no guarantees that Weber and Suter have a strong desire stay here. Suter may want to test FA in 2 years, especially if the direction of the team is not good.

These are questions we can't answer. What I don't understand is when people have a strong opinion about it either way.

This is up to Poile to figure out. He should start negotiating with Weber on July 1. If he doesn't think it's likely he's going to be a long-term Pred, or he wants something like 8m, then we have to look at trading him.
I'll ask you one question about Weber. Why did he sign a 3 year deal instead of a 4 year deal and be an UFA at the end of his deal like Suter did if he didn't like playing here?

Both Suter and Weber are pretty smart guys. They know the financial restraints of this team right now and the only way we get better is two fold, develop players like them and Wilson and Hornqvist and put people in the seats. If we continue to do the first part, hopefully in time the latter will come. They know this and if it means taking a little less salary to stay here and build something special, I think they'd rather do that then take bigger money with bigger expectations. Their expectations already are to make Nashville a perennial cup contender. These two will be the leadership in the room once Arnott is gone.

At some point, one of two things is gonna give, the ownership is gonna have to put money in the pockets of our players or the stands will be filled on a nightly basis and we'll be able to put money in our players pockets in addition to going out and signing free agents if need be.

As far as Poile figuring it out, he's got a plan together as you can see by certain guys coming off the books when other guys are up for free agency.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 03:18 PM
  #9
Soundgarden
Registered User
 
Soundgarden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 6,215
vCash: 562
Arnott, and Sullivan's contracts both expire next year, I don't see why we couldn't sign Weber and Suter for about 6-7 mill.

Soundgarden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 03:36 PM
  #10
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'll ask you one question about Weber. Why did he sign a 3 year deal instead of a 4 year deal and be an UFA at the end of his deal like Suter did if he didn't like playing here?
First off, I'm not saying Weber doesn't like playing here. But the above isn't a clear indication that he loves playing here and will accept less money to stay here. What I'm saying is no one knows.

He could've signed a 3 year deal to see where the organization is headed, and will make a decision next year if he wants to sign long term. He could've signed a 3 year deal because he thinks he can raise his value and get more money in the 4th year (which is going to happen). He may only want to sign a one year deal next offseason so he can test the market. No one really knows what he or Suter is thinking, so I don't understand all the absolute assumptions.

Quote:
Both Suter and Weber are pretty smart guys. They know the financial restraints of this team right now and the only way we get better is two fold, develop players like them and Wilson and Hornqvist and put people in the seats. If we continue to do the first part, hopefully in time the latter will come. They know this and if it means taking a little less salary to stay here and build something special, I think they'd rather do that then take bigger money with bigger expectations. Their expectations already are to make Nashville a perennial cup contender.
"They know... They know... Their expectations..." = What you hope is going through their head.

Quote:
As far as Poile figuring it out, he's got a plan together as you can see by certain guys coming off the books when other guys are up for free agency.
So, Arnott, Sullivan, and Dumont come off the books. This frees up cash to sign Weber and Suter long term. There's a part your missing.... We need people to score goals, and it's likely going to cost a lot of money to have people score goals consistently. Even if Wilson pans out (which is going to cost money), we've still got at least 3 scoringline positions to fill, and no real offensive catalyst.


Last edited by dulzhok: 05-15-2010 at 03:44 PM.
dulzhok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 03:40 PM
  #11
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I'll ask you one question about Weber. Why did he sign a 3 year deal instead of a 4 year deal and be an UFA at the end of his deal like Suter did if he didn't like playing here?

Both Suter and Weber are pretty smart guys. They know the financial restraints of this team right now and the only way we get better is two fold, develop players like them and Wilson and Hornqvist and put people in the seats. If we continue to do the first part, hopefully in time the latter will come. They know this and if it means taking a little less salary to stay here and build something special, I think they'd rather do that then take bigger money with bigger expectations. Their expectations already are to make Nashville a perennial cup contender. These two will be the leadership in the room once Arnott is gone.

At some point, one of two things is gonna give, the ownership is gonna have to put money in the pockets of our players or the stands will be filled on a nightly basis and we'll be able to put money in our players pockets in addition to going out and signing free agents if need be.

As far as Poile figuring it out, he's got a plan together as you can see by certain guys coming off the books when other guys are up for free agency.
Well when something special happens, call me. These guys would rather be in a big hockey market, making big cash and being a stanley cup contender. How are we going to just magically turn into something special when ownership will not spend??
Not trying to be negative, but its the harsh reality our team has. Even if we somehow manage to get a young superstar like Stamkos or Crosby (very rare) we will only have him for 2 years, then he will want huge cash and will be gone and we are right back where we started, except then its even worse cuz Webs and Suts will want out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Arnott, and Sullivan's contracts both expire next year, I don't see why we couldn't sign Weber and Suter for about 6-7 mill.
We could do that, but then we will have continuous replays over and over again of first round exits in playoffs! If we pay them both 7 million, thats 14 mill between the two. With this self imposed cap, we will not have freedom to get anyone else.

I just really hope that Sully, Arny, or Dumont will waive their NMC, its a damn shame because we have the team now to win a cup, if we could only move those three, we could bring in some heavy talent. Who ever started these stupid NMC and NTC contracts???? Brutal.

If Arnott Sullivan and Dumont stay this season, we cannot bring in any talent, we are goin out first round again, that will hurt the market, something must be done.

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:01 PM
  #12
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Where do you come up with $14 million?

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:03 PM
  #13
xOvechkin*
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 925
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Jason Arnott would be a nice addition to the Canucks, but salary space could be an issue. Mason Raymond is a player I think could be made available depending on what he's asking for, what types of moves Gillis is able to make on the backend and whether Gillis can find a suitable replacement for Raymond up front.

what are you talking about? why trade the fastest player in the league???

we need speedy players...so keep him and we could get Arnott by trade some players and drafts

xOvechkin* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:05 PM
  #14
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Where do you come up with $14 million?
Suter will want $7 million, and Weber will want roughly the same,

therefore,

7+7=14,

$14 million between them!


lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:07 PM
  #15
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by xOvechkin View Post
what are you talking about? why trade the fastest player in the league???

we need speedy players...so keep him and we could get Arnott by trade some players and drafts



lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:16 PM
  #16
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Suter will want $7 million, and Weber will want roughly the same,

therefore,

7+7=14,

$14 million between them!

You get these numbers from?

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 04:21 PM
  #17
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
I saw re sign Weber, trade Suter to the Canucks for a package like Hodgson, Kesler, and 1st rounder???
I like Suter, but that's laughable.

Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 05:45 PM
  #18
Que Sera Sera
Registered User
 
Que Sera Sera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,403
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Que Sera Sera
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Suter will want $7 million, and Weber will want roughly the same,

therefore,

7+7=14,

$14 million between them!


Where did you get that information?

Que Sera Sera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 06:29 PM
  #19
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
You get these numbers from?
Well come on, its not rocket science.

Lubomir Visnovsky - $7 million a season
Kimmo Timonen - $7 million a season
Brian Rafalski - $6 million a season
Wade Redden - $8 million a season
Niklas Lidstrom - $7.5 million a season
Dion Phaneuf - $6.5 million a season
Zdeno Chara - $7.5 million a season
Brian Campbell - $7.2 million a season
Jay Bowmeester - $7 million a season


Now Weber currently makes 4.5 million a Suter gets 3.5 million, Probably the two biggest bargains in the NHL!! Top ten at least.

So read over the above salaries again, then see Shea Weber and Ryan Suter just as good if not better than most of them. Why the heck would they not both want $7 million?? They are worth it! They are entitled to it! They will get it! Simple!

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 06:41 PM
  #20
lightning_legwand*
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ontario, CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,202
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
I like Suter, but that's laughable.
What more would they give us? Thats alot! Maybe we can try to milk more.


Kesler had 75 points this season! and he is only 25!
Kesler had 10 points in 12 playoff games too!

Plus Hodgson and a first round pick??


I know Suter is sick, but I mean we cannot over rate players, plus with all our defense depth, this would be a bigtime move to get us offense (which we are starving for) and a solid playoff guy to hopefully take us out of first round!

Imagine having Wilson, Kesler, Hornqvist, Hodgson, and Erat up front! Plus after next season, even better with Sully, Dumont and Arnott gone.
That top 5 I listed is all young guys that could make us a cup champ one day.


We would be still good on defense with Weber locked up, Hamhuis (re-signed after dealing Suter), plus Franson, Blum, Ellis, all young solid guys as well.

the 2011-2012 season would be amazing!


Hornqvist Wilson Kesler
Hodgson (free agent) Erat
Tootoo Legwand Ward
Budish O'Reilly Spaling

Weber Hamhuis
Blum (free agent)
Franson Klein/Laakso


Rinne
Pickard

We would have Sullivan, Arnott, Dumont, and Suter gone. Kesler only makes 1.8 million, so that gives us like $14.5 million to bring in that solid second line centre and defenseman to play with Blum. I mean SOLID guys!

lightning_legwand* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 06:45 PM
  #21
Slapshot_11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
What more would they give us? Thats alot! Maybe we can try to milk more.


Kesler had 75 points this season! and he is only 25!
Kesler had 10 points in 12 playoff games too!

Plus Hodgson and a first round pick??


I know Suter is sick, but I mean we cannot over rate players, plus with all our defense depth, this would be a bigtime move to get us offense (which we are starving for) and a solid playoff guy to hopefully take us out of first round!

Imagine having Wilson, Kesler, Hornqvist, Hodgson, and Erat up front! Plus after next season, even better with Sully, Dumont and Arnott gone.
That top 5 I listed is all young guys that could make us a cup champ one day.


We would be still good on defense with Weber locked up, Hamhuis (re-signed after dealing Suter), plus Franson, Blum, Ellis, all young solid guys as well.

the 2011-2012 season would be amazing!


Hornqvist Wilson Kesler
Hodgson (free agent) Erat
Tootoo Legwand Ward
Budish O'Reilly Spaling

Weber Hamhuis
Blum (free agent)
Franson Klein/Laakso


Rinne
Pickard

We would have Sullivan, Arnott, Dumont, and Suter gone. Kesler only makes 1.8 million, so that gives us like $14.5 million to bring in that solid second line centre and defenseman to play with Blum. I mean SOLID guys!
He's saying its laughable because that is a huge overpayment for Suter. There is no way Gillis trades Kesler, Hodgson and a 1st for Suter

Slapshot_11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 07:24 PM
  #22
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapshot_11 View Post
He's saying its laughable because that is a huge overpayment for Suter. There is no way Gillis trades Kesler, Hodgson and a 1st for Suter
This. It's funny how people write a huge response to something from the completely wrong viewpoint.

Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 09:22 PM
  #23
Seth Lake
Registered User
 
Seth Lake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 8,855
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Seth Lake
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightning_legwand View Post
Well come on, its not rocket science.

Lubomir Visnovsky - $7 million a season
Kimmo Timonen - $7 million a season
Brian Rafalski - $6 million a season
Wade Redden - $8 million a season
Niklas Lidstrom - $7.5 million a season
Dion Phaneuf - $6.5 million a season
Zdeno Chara - $7.5 million a season
Brian Campbell - $7.2 million a season
Jay Bowmeester - $7 million a season


Now Weber currently makes 4.5 million a Suter gets 3.5 million, Probably the two biggest bargains in the NHL!! Top ten at least.

So read over the above salaries again, then see Shea Weber and Ryan Suter just as good if not better than most of them. Why the heck would they not both want $7 million?? They are worth it! They are entitled to it! They will get it! Simple!
Both Suter and Weber will be dealt with next summer and both will be offered lifetime deals in the Duncan Keith mold...they will each have a cap hit of around $5.5 million per season if they accept and like Legwand and Erat's contracts, their deals will be structured in reverse of each other so that the actual cash payout will be similar. NHL has guaranteed contracts, so they will be getting their money...it just won't be all front loaded...

Here's the breakdown of Keith's 13 year deal:
http://www.capgeek.com/players/displ...id=63187&pos=D

Seth Lake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 10:03 PM
  #24
oceanchild
Registered User
 
oceanchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,125
vCash: 500
[QUOTE=glenngineer;25841115]I'll ask you one question about Weber. Why did he sign a 3 year deal instead of a 4 year deal and be an UFA at the end of his deal like Suter did if he didn't like playing here?

because it sets him up to get a large pay ay 1 year sooner than waiting for free agency. Weber "you want to keep me its 8 mill per". it could have also been why he got more than Suter as a negotiation tool by management "ok we will pay you more than Suter but you loss free agency and will be an RFA"

I think the idea of keeping both is a great one but the preds have a cap limit much lower than most franchises and I dont think they can afford it

oceanchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-15-2010, 10:16 PM
  #25
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,916
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Both Suter and Weber will be dealt with next summer and both will be offered lifetime deals in the Duncan Keith mold...they will each have a cap hit of around $5.5 million per season if they accept and like Legwand and Erat's contracts, their deals will be structured in reverse of each other so that the actual cash payout will be similar. NHL has guaranteed contracts, so they will be getting their money...it just won't be all front loaded...

Here's the breakdown of Keith's 13 year deal:
http://www.capgeek.com/players/displ...id=63187&pos=D
Thank you for posting this because this was going to be my exact rebuttal.

glenngineer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.