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05-23-2010, 01:47 PM
  #26
The Nemesis
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I wasn't sure about Greiss, but what I saw from him this season, he really isn't too bad. Give him a chance, but also sign a veteran back up just in case. People on these boards might hate me for it but how about Osgood?
Lost his job to Howard for a reason (and not just that howard was good)

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05-23-2010, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Volchenkov or Hamhuis, I vote to let Nabby walk and try and use any saved money for a defense.

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05-23-2010, 01:50 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
there are all sorts of rumors about Price not having a great commitment to the game, and that he's out partying and maybe worse when he should be trying to buckle down and prove he was worth that high draft pick. Of course all of these are completely unprovable, but the rumors seem to surface pretty regularly.

and I agree with Easy. I like Niittymaki if we're looking at a stopgap solution while we wait for one of the prospects. He looked good playing on a weak, weak, weak Tampa squad.
The same rumours floated about Lehtonen and he managed to pull a deal out of Nieuwendyk. I'm fairly sure Price will be fine, but he had better not end up in teal. I don't think he's got the 'Jesus' qualities as Hab fan would have everyone believe. I liked Nitty with Philly, and Ellis in Nash. Those are probably my choices

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05-23-2010, 01:51 PM
  #29
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Sign Ellis
^
This

Ellis is a good goalie and could be a solid #1 while Griess or whoever you feel is your future builds there game up as a 1B.

Ellis will be fairly cheap 2 mil to 2.5 mil and is reliable. Very underated

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05-23-2010, 01:52 PM
  #30
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The same rumours floated about Lehtonen and he managed to pull a deal out of Nieuwendyk. I'm fairly sure Price will be fine, but he had better not end up in teal. I don't think he's got the 'Jesus' qualities as Hab fan would have everyone believe. I liked Nitty with Philly, and Ellis in Nash. Those are probably my choices
Lehtonen was lazy apparently, which means that poor conditioning hasn't helped him overcome his tendency to get hurt. Price isn't supposed to necessarily be lazy, but.... well, I can't really say without skirting the libel rules. Still, if half of what I've heard is true, Price's risk factor is far worse than Lehtonen's

It's not the same scenario. I'd take Lehtonen on this team long before Price.

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05-23-2010, 01:54 PM
  #31
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Volchenkov or Hamhuis, I vote to let Nabby walk and try and use any saved money for a defense.
That's what I'm hoping we do. Honestly, I think Pavelski may have a bit of an overrated trade value. He needs to be more consistent. He can be the best player in the NHL when he's on, but that's not often. If we didn't resign Pavelski or traded his rights (He's RFA) and something else for a star 2-way D-man (Shea Weber, Ryan Suter). Or we could let Boyle walk. I don't think he has many good years in front of him, he has a pretty high trade value I think.

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05-23-2010, 02:00 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Lehtonen was lazy apparently, which means that poor conditioning hasn't helped him overcome his tendency to get hurt. Price isn't supposed to necessarily be lazy, but.... well, I can't really say without skirting the libel rules. Still, if half of what I've heard is true, Price's risk factor is far worse than Lehtonen's

It's not the same scenario. I'd take Lehtonen on this team long before Price.
Nem,
Thanks. The only thing I would add on Price is that in watching his games (~5) this year, I did notice that his body language, sense of remorse, on bad goals was not there. I haven't seen any other goalie in the league with that kind of body language. The Lehtonen stuff was on broadcasts, so no libel there. Others need to read some of the Osgood stuff from last year about not feeling the need to be tops during the regular season but buckling down in the playoffs. Not a good attitude.

Nitty could burn out after a string of games and Ellis had his low points. Hedberg also burnt on overwork. When are coaches going to learn that the #1 or bust mentality is usually not good. Brodeur and Roy may have done it for years, but exceptionally few are cut out for it. I wonder when that wisdom will finally penetrate the minds of coaches.

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05-23-2010, 02:05 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
That's what I'm hoping we do. Honestly, I think Pavelski may have a bit of an overrated trade value. He needs to be more consistent. He can be the best player in the NHL when he's on, but that's not often. If we didn't resign Pavelski or traded his rights (He's RFA) and something else for a star 2-way D-man (Shea Weber, Ryan Suter). Or we could let Boyle walk. I don't think he has many good years in front of him, he has a pretty high trade value I think.
All forwards have issues with consistency. It is a poor argument unless you can give comparables. Pavs is extremely consistent relative to other second line centers. He also has the drive to become more consistent. He is likely in the upper middle tier of second line centers meaning you won't get much more bang for the buck at $4mil/year. Compare him to Weiss, Roy and others who are near the top of that class. He is right there or better. He is only clearly beat by Kesler and even Kesler is inconsistent.

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05-23-2010, 02:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JPavs8Cluthcy View Post
That's what I'm hoping we do. Honestly, I think Pavelski may have a bit of an overrated trade value. He needs to be more consistent. He can be the best player in the NHL when he's on, but that's not often. If we didn't resign Pavelski or traded his rights (He's RFA) and something else for a star 2-way D-man (Shea Weber, Ryan Suter). Or we could let Boyle walk. I don't think he has many good years in front of him, he has a pretty high trade value I think.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

1) Pavelski can be the best player in the NHL? Seriously? No. And he's not "not often on." He's "on" most of the time. And when he is on, he's exactly what he's supposed to be: A very good #2 center.

2) You're not getting Suter/Weber for Pavelski. Maybe if his value was where you believed it to be, but not for what he is.

3) Let Boyle walk? How? He's got like 4 or 5 years left on his contract. You can't just "let him walk" without buying him out for a ridiculous amount/length.

4) Boyle is the key to the entire freaking defence. Take him away and the Sharks D can only get worse. And no team with a good young d-man (ie Weber) is going to trade them to the Sharks for Boyle because there's no upside in trading a good young player for a slightly better older player (and once the talent gap actually does swing in the other team's favor, the Sharks wouldn't do it anymore)

Jesus, you've basically said that the Sharks should trade 3/4 of the useful players on the team over the past few days. this isn't NHL 10. Massive top-end turnover doesn't end well, and you're not going to fleece a bunch of teams out of young talent for now and the future by trading junk or older players.

In conclusion: Wrong.

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05-23-2010, 02:13 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Lehtonen was lazy apparently, which means that poor conditioning hasn't helped him overcome his tendency to get hurt. Price isn't supposed to necessarily be lazy, but.... well, I can't really say without skirting the libel rules. Still, if half of what I've heard is true, Price's risk factor is far worse than Lehtonen's

It's not the same scenario. I'd take Lehtonen on this team long before Price.
It's not the same scenario, but it amounts to the same thing: devotion. Clearly for Lehtonen, it was a move to a team with some defense and to play the Sharks For Price, it would probably be going to a smaller market, with less distraction if the rumors are true, I can't see Montreal moving him unless they had to though. I'd take most every goalie the Sharks have had over the last 8 years over them both.

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05-23-2010, 02:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Nem,
Thanks. The only thing I would add on Price is that in watching his games (~5) this year, I did notice that his body language, sense of remorse, on bad goals was not there. I haven't seen any other goalie in the league with that kind of body language. The Lehtonen stuff was on broadcasts, so no libel there. Others need to read some of the Osgood stuff from last year about not feeling the need to be tops during the regular season but buckling down in the playoffs. Not a good attitude.

Nitty could burn out after a string of games and Ellis had his low points. Hedberg also burnt on overwork. When are coaches going to learn that the #1 or bust mentality is usually not good. Brodeur and Roy may have done it for years, but exceptionally few are cut out for it. I wonder when that wisdom will finally penetrate the minds of coaches.
This is kind of why I like these two for the Sharks. They aren't 65-70 gamers and everyone knows it, so it forces the Sharks to play Greiss more and at the very least see what they have in him in more than a worthless 5-10 sporadic game sample. There are no big time clear-cut #1s on the market this off-season, so these two are probably the better options out of what is available.

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05-23-2010, 02:26 PM
  #37
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I'm thinking Willie Mitchell. Plays about 22 minutes a night for Vancouver, and is just a solid defenseman. Was hurt for part of this year so it might drop his price a little.

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05-23-2010, 02:27 PM
  #38
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I am absolutely opposed to Price and Turco. Turco is done. The issues with Price are not just the Montreal environment. The Sharks don't need to throw that in the mix. If they need a stop gap, I would look at Ellis and Nitty. I would also skip Biron as even his experience is not an upgrade as his play has been appalling. Thomas' contract is a huge stop sign. I'd even take Hedberg as a high game count backup before some of the others mentioned.
While i think Turco is definitely on the down side of his career he is still capable of being an NHL starter. And what you loose in talent from Nabby you gain in his ablility to handle the puck. Turco's puck handling abilities would easy TON of pressure off the defence.

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05-23-2010, 02:33 PM
  #39
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I'm thinking Willie Mitchell. Plays about 22 minutes a night for Vancouver, and is just a solid defenseman. Was hurt for part of this year so it might drop his price a little.
I like Mitchell too. Dude's a warrior. but the one problem with him is that he's not a puck-mover. Which means that the problems the team has had this season with the D not being able to move the puck reliably aren't solved. Now if they could somehow get Mitchell fairly inexpensively and grab a lower-end puck-mover like Jordan Leopold or (if you're willing to gamble on health) Carlo Colaiacovo

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05-23-2010, 02:33 PM
  #40
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The Sharks need puck movers, and looking through the list, there aren't many with the exception of Joe Corvo.

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05-23-2010, 02:34 PM
  #41
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Trading Boyle would be the stupidest thing this team could do. Blake is the one over the hill, not Boyle.

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05-23-2010, 02:35 PM
  #42
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I like Mitchell too. Dude's a warrior. but the one problem with him is that he's not a puck-mover. Which means that the problems the team has had this season with the D not being able to move the puck reliably aren't solved. Now if they could somehow get Mitchell fairly inexpensively and grab a lower-end puck-mover like Jordan Leopold or (if you're willing to gamble on health) Carlo Colaiacovo
I am a fan of Mitchell as well.

Boyle-Murray
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05-23-2010, 02:39 PM
  #43
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While i think Turco is definitely on the down side of his career he is still capable of being an NHL starter. And what you loose in talent from Nabby you gain in his ablility to handle the puck. Turco's puck handling abilities would easy TON of pressure off the defence.
There was a reason he was replaced for the end of the season. He goes through strings of games letting in 2 and sometimes 3 soft goals now. No bounce back. It is brutal. No amount of puckhandling compensates for that. His goaltending is not even at backup level and it has gone on for two years now. As a person, I like him, but as a goaltender, a reasonable observer would think that retirement is a real possibility. Not only did the Stars get Lehtonen, but they were using Auld because Turco was that bad. Basically, even Auld is better.

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05-23-2010, 02:42 PM
  #44
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I like Mitchell too. Dude's a warrior. but the one problem with him is that he's not a puck-mover. Which means that the problems the team has had this season with the D not being able to move the puck reliably aren't solved. Now if they could somehow get Mitchell fairly inexpensively and grab a lower-end puck-mover like Jordan Leopold or (if you're willing to gamble on health) Carlo Colaiacovo
but shouldn't we also factor in the improvement of Demers? He should, in theory, get better as a puck mover.

Also, while we need a puck mover, we also need to factor in the loss of Blake.

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05-23-2010, 02:43 PM
  #45
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The Sharks need puck movers, and looking through the list, there aren't many with the exception of Joe Corvo.
I'm hoping Demers is the guy we are looking for. Boyle I have zero issues with. I'd like to see Pickles hit the damn weight room. Blake needs to retire. I think Murray with the right pairing is ok too. Huskins/Wallin are both Defailmen and need to be on the first bus out of town after the season ends.

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05-23-2010, 02:43 PM
  #46
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Although Mitchell's defense is not questionable, the big red flag is time he has needed for concussion recovery. That is a huge red flag. Each concussion makes the next more likely and the recovery time escalates.

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05-23-2010, 02:47 PM
  #47
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Have Turco play D. His puck handling skills outweigh his puck stopping skills right now.

Bam PMD.

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05-23-2010, 02:47 PM
  #48
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There was a reason he was replaced for the end of the season. He goes through strings of games letting in 2 and sometimes 3 soft goals now. No bounce back. It is brutal. No amount of puckhandling compensates for that. His goaltending is not even at backup level and it has gone on for two years now. As a person, I like him, but as a goaltender, a reasonable observer would think that retirement is a real possibility. Not only did the Stars get Lehtonen, but they were using Auld because Turco was that bad. Basically, even Auld is better.
I look at his stats from 3, 4, 5 years ago and I see one consistent: he played about 65 games. You look at 2 years ago, and it jumps up to 74 and his stats drop. Maybe it's a case of him being overworked that led to a drop in play. Although, last year, it's hard to look at his best save % since 03-04 and say he played as poorly as you claim. To be fair, I only get to see him when he plays against us, so you probably have watched him more than I have.

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05-23-2010, 03:01 PM
  #49
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Old
05-23-2010, 03:01 PM
  #50
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I look at his stats from 3, 4, 5 years ago and I see one consistent: he played about 65 games. You look at 2 years ago, and it jumps up to 74 and his stats drop. Maybe it's a case of him being overworked that led to a drop in play. Although, last year, it's hard to look at his best save % since 03-04 and say he played as poorly as you claim. To be fair, I only get to see him when he plays against us, so you probably have watched him more than I have.
Obviously, I don't see all of his games, but the ones that I saw were really bad. It looked like reflexes and a couple of mental lapses. He is a smaller goalie and I would look at RC's analysis more than my own on the technical aspects. The Stars played a strongly defensive system despite Crawford and we all know that Tippett runs a tight ship defensively (08-09). You may be right about overwork but he was still not doing well with spending long stretches on the bench (Auld before Lehtonen arrived). If you ever want to get into looking at goalies look at my ref reviews and look for "Britney" (Oops) by the goal. Those are goals that are flat out goalie fault goals. In watching Nabby this year, I doubt whether he had more than 5 in the whole year at that level. I did about ~170 reviews this year and you probably shouldn't see that at all on any goalie considered and certainly not more than once. I will probably get more consistent next year about marking it up that way as a help.

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