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05-24-2010, 12:59 AM
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Fleetwood Mac Attack
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Postseason much more reflective of the REAL Flyers?

First HF post (!). I am a dedicated Flyers fan but don't leave near Philly anymore (and am subjected to the highly entertaining Washington Capitals franchise instead). As a result, I didn't see a whole lot of Flyers action during the regular season, other than highlights and what I read. I attended one game this season - the infamous 4-1 loss to Florida in December in the midst of their midseason spout of atrocity that also marked the beginning of the Michael Leighton era. Even after the Flyers rebounded from this stretch, they still were by no means a dominant team and had to win in a shootout on the final day of the season to even make the playoffs.

So tell me: is this postseason a fluke? Or is this the real Flyers team that everyone expected at the beginning of the season? If so, why were they so mediocre during the regular season? I don't really buy the injury argument (look at how the playoffs have gone without Carter; Richards and Pronger have been there pretty much the whole season) or the coaching argument (the team was still mediocre in the regular season after the coaching change). Did the team just finally decide to turn it on???

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05-24-2010, 01:05 AM
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The postseason Flyers are the real Flyers.

And the reason they were so inconsistent during the season was because things got stale with John Stevens - players stopped moving their feet, puck movement was slow and erratic, and there was also a **** ton of injuries - so it wasn't until Lavi's system sunk in during the final week or two of the regular season that the Flyers started playing strong consistent hockey.

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05-24-2010, 01:13 AM
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Is it the real flyers? Yes, in the sense that when this team didn't have its head up its ass it was a very good team.

That being said, it needs to be realized that our path to this point in the playoffs has been the absolute ideal. Rd 1 we get the Devs, a team we owned all year -- they easily would have had better success against another team. Rd 2 we get the ideal matchup, the worst offensive team in the league. Then, in Rd 3 we somehow end up with the 8 seed... an undersized team that is only here because their goalie was the clear MVP of the East.

Unfortunately, worst case scenario, IMO, has just played itself out in the West.

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05-24-2010, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleetwood Mac Attack View Post
So tell me: is this postseason a fluke? Or is this the real Flyers team that everyone expected at the beginning of the season? If so, why were they so mediocre during the regular season? I don't really buy the injury argument (look at how the playoffs have gone without Carter; Richards and Pronger have been there pretty much the whole season) or the coaching argument (the team was still mediocre in the regular season after the coaching change). Did the team just finally decide to turn it on???
I think this is the team we all 'thought' we had coming into the year. I've always felt the Flyers could compete with anyone in the east this year.

They had a very good team already but needed some time to integrate some key veteran leaders: Pronger, Laperriere, Betts, Emery, Boucher, to the team. It was also the first Flyer training camp for guys like Carle and Carcillo, acquired during the last season, and we've got some young players too.

We've learned that Stevens, who I always liked as a coach, didn't really have them in good shape - which is unforgiveable and good enough reason for his departure. Laviolette put in a more aggressive system on the forecheck combined with the Detroit left wing lock on D and it's worked.

The strength of the top 4 D and the ability to play 4 lines that can all keep sustained pressure in the other team's end is the real key.

They've played great in some stretches this year, with some other inconsistencies, but the team has come together and Lavy is getting everyone playing to their potential right now.

A big game today, let's hope they can win and move on.

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05-24-2010, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Unfortunately, worst case scenario, IMO, has just played itself out in the West.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but first we need to take care of the Canadiens. IF we make it to the Final, it will definitely be a difficult series. However, we did play the Hawks well in the one game during the regular season (yes, I realize it was the regular season). At any rate, I'm just excited for the possibility that we might make it. Hell yes.

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05-24-2010, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Is it the real flyers? Yes, in the sense that when this team didn't have its head up its ass it was a very good team.

That being said, it needs to be realized that our path to this point in the playoffs has been the absolute ideal. Rd 1 we get the Devs, a team we owned all year -- they easily would have had better success against another team. Rd 2 we get the ideal matchup, the worst offensive team in the league. Then, in Rd 3 we somehow end up with the 8 seed... an undersized team that is only here because their goalie was the clear MVP of the East.

Unfortunately, worst case scenario, IMO, has just played itself out in the West.
Either West team would be heavily favored against the Flyers. I mean, San Jose would have won over 70 percent of all face offs including virtually all of the key defensive and offensive draws. Chicago has an amazing team but is youthful. And Pronger is the best player still playing.

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05-24-2010, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleetwood Mac Attack View Post
First HF post (!). I am a dedicated Flyers fan but don't leave near Philly anymore (and am subjected to the highly entertaining Washington Capitals franchise instead). As a result, I didn't see a whole lot of Flyers action during the regular season, other than highlights and what I read. I attended one game this season - the infamous 4-1 loss to Florida in December in the midst of their midseason spout of atrocity that also marked the beginning of the Michael Leighton era. Even after the Flyers rebounded from this stretch, they still were by no means a dominant team and had to win in a shootout on the final day of the season to even make the playoffs.

So tell me: is this postseason a fluke? Or is this the real Flyers team that everyone expected at the beginning of the season? If so, why were they so mediocre during the regular season? I don't really buy the injury argument (look at how the playoffs have gone without Carter; Richards and Pronger have been there pretty much the whole season) or the coaching argument (the team was still mediocre in the regular season after the coaching change). Did the team just finally decide to turn it on???
I know how that first part feels.

To your question: This is not the same team that started out the year. Lots of changes have happened. Most significant IMO being the coaching change to Laviolette. It took a while for them to catch on to his system, but I think this team has really gotten behind him and is finally starting to hit their stride.

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05-24-2010, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleetwood Mac Attack View Post
So tell me: is this postseason a fluke? Or is this the real Flyers team that everyone expected at the beginning of the season? If so, why were they so mediocre during the regular season? I don't really buy the injury argument (look at how the playoffs have gone without Carter; Richards and Pronger have been there pretty much the whole season) or the coaching argument (the team was still mediocre in the regular season after the coaching change). Did the team just finally decide to turn it on???
Remember, when Lavi took over they had a brutal stretch of games with few nights off so he had no real practice time to implement his system. It takes some time (and practices) for a new system to set it and I think we are seeing the results now.

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05-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Either West team would be heavily favored against the Flyers. I mean, San Jose would have won over 70 percent of all face offs including virtually all of the key defensive and offensive draws. Chicago has an amazing team but is youthful. And Pronger is the best player still playing.
Obviously we need to win another one against the Habs, but Big Buff is playing out of his mind, and his net presence is a big problem with where Leighton likes to put his rebounds.

I mean, the reality is, if our D and Leighton can continue to keep the puck out of the net the way they have been... we'll be competitive with anyone.

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05-24-2010, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Either West team would be heavily favored against the Flyers. I mean, San Jose would have won over 70 percent of all face offs including virtually all of the key defensive and offensive draws. Chicago has an amazing team but is youthful. And Pronger is the best player still playing.
I respectfully disagree. San Jose are a bunch of heartless chokers, Philly wouldve disposed of them in a max of 6 games and won the Cup.

Hawks are unbeatable this year, but I've watched the Sharks for years now and their leadership (thornton and heater, specifically) sucks bad.

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05-24-2010, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I respectfully disagree. San Jose are a bunch of heartless chokers, Philly wouldve disposed of them in a max of 6 games and won the Cup.

Hawks are unbeatable this year, but I've watched the Sharks for years now and their leadership (thornton and heater, specifically) sucks bad.
If the Sharks beat the Hawks would they still be chokers?

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05-24-2010, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
If the Sharks beat the Hawks would they still be chokers?
But they didn't beat the Hawks.

They choked.

That's like saying if your Mom had balls, she'd be your Dad.

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05-24-2010, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I respectfully disagree. San Jose are a bunch of heartless chokers, Philly wouldve disposed of them in a max of 6 games and won the Cup.

Hawks are unbeatable this year, but I've watched the Sharks for years now and their leadership (thornton and heater, specifically) sucks bad.


There's a freaking thread on the main forum that their team is the best ever.

However, in the postseason our offense has been deeper and more effective than them against stronger defensive teams.

Our offensive is on par with Chicago's. Our defense is certainly on par with Chicago's.

What am I missing that makes the Hawks so unbeatable?

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05-24-2010, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
But they didn't beat the Hawks.

They choked.

That's like saying if your Mom had balls, she'd be your Dad.
Well the point was if the sharks beat the hawks the sharks wouldnt be favored and the reasoning was the sharks were chokers. but if they had beaten the hawks would they have been favored against the sharks?

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05-24-2010, 11:25 AM
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There's a freaking thread on the main forum that their team is the best ever.

However, in the postseason our offense has been deeper and more effective than them against stronger defensive teams.

Our offensive is on par with Chicago's. Our defense is certainly on par with Chicago's.

What am I missing that makes the Hawks so unbeatable?
My hawks friend told me that the flyers would be lucky to win 1 game now the buff is on the top line and is unstoppable. I would like to think if there is any Dman in the league that could handle that it would be Pronger. I would feel a lot more confident if Jeff Carter was 100% for the series. Based on their first meeting of the season I think the flyers actually had a good game against them and it was extremely close game. With that being said the playoffs is a lot different. Lukas and Parent each played 14+ minutes which will not happen if this was the series. If the flyers can stay out of the penalty box (which they have been doing) I wouldn't say its the giant mismatch everyone believes it will be.

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05-24-2010, 11:42 AM
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I was wonderign if any of you have any links or what not of preseason predictions where the flyers were picked to go to the cup. would be really appreciated. Thanks.

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05-24-2010, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


There's a freaking thread on the main forum that their team is the best ever.

However, in the postseason our offense has been deeper and more effective than them against stronger defensive teams.

Our offensive is on par with Chicago's. Our defense is certainly on par with Chicago's.

What am I missing that makes the Hawks so unbeatable?
What you are missing is the following:

1. Offense: they have three scoring lines. Toews/Kane/Byfuglin have been lights out.... Sharpe/Hossa is pretty dangerous AND ....... dont forget Bolland and Versteeg on their third line

2. Philly cannot bully Chicago. Pronger is a beast but dude, have you seen how HUGE Byfuglien is? Also, Bolland is a tough character, as is Eager.

3. Defense: Keith and Seabrook and Campbell. Keith and Seabrook are much younger than Prongs, Prongs is 35 and been carrying a heavy load all PO and will be more tired than those two. Check for yourself the ice-time of Philly's Top 3 defense versus theirs. They distribute it more evenly.. we overload a 35 year old Pronger all the time.

And I think all three are better than Coburn.

One real problem tho.. is the toughness of Chicago. It neutralizes some of Philly's biggest advantage.

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05-24-2010, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
My hawks friend told me that the flyers would be lucky to win 1 game now the buff is on the top line and is unstoppable. I would like to think if there is any Dman in the league that could handle that it would be Pronger. I would feel a lot more confident if Jeff Carter was 100% for the series. Based on their first meeting of the season I think the flyers actually had a good game against them and it was extremely close game. With that being said the playoffs is a lot different. Lukas and Parent each played 14+ minutes which will not happen if this was the series. If the flyers can stay out of the penalty box (which they have been doing) I wouldn't say its the giant mismatch everyone believes it will be.
Right, I dont see why anyone even MENTIONS the regular season, PO's are a different planet, ... AND also one game is not enough of a sample size to conclude anything.

Forget the regular season, it doesnt even exist.

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05-24-2010, 12:47 PM
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Is it the real flyers? Yes, in the sense that when this team didn't have its head up its ass it was a very good team.

That being said, it needs to be realized that our path to this point in the playoffs has been the absolute ideal. Rd 1 we get the Devs, a team we owned all year -- they easily would have had better success against another team. Rd 2 we get the ideal matchup, the worst offensive team in the league. Then, in Rd 3 we somehow end up with the 8 seed... an undersized team that is only here because their goalie was the clear MVP of the East.

Unfortunately, worst case scenario, IMO, has just played itself out in the West.
I agree with this post. The Flyers are playing like the team that we've expected, but no way would I have ever expected to get to the Finals without ever having to face at least one of Pens/Caps and probably both. Their match ups couldn't have gone any better than this.
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
I was wonderign if any of you have any links or what not of preseason predictions where the flyers were picked to go to the cup. would be really appreciated. Thanks.
I don't know of any links, but I know the Hockey News predicted them to win the Cup at the start of the season. I believe Pronger was on the cover of that issue.

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05-24-2010, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
What you are missing is the following:

1. Offense: they have three scoring lines. Toews/Kane/Byfuglin have been lights out.... Sharpe/Hossa is pretty dangerous AND ....... dont forget Bolland and Versteeg on their third line
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Asham

Those aren't three scoring lines?

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2. Philly cannot bully Chicago. Pronger is a beast but dude, have you seen how HUGE Byfuglien is? Also, Bolland is a tough character, as is Eager.
Pronger has a decade of playing hockey in the dead-puck era before Byfuglien was even drafted against players as big and physical as Byfuglien if not more so.

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3. Defense: Keith and Seabrook and Campbell. Keith and Seabrook are much younger than Prongs, Prongs is 35 and been carrying a heavy load all PO and will be more tired than those two. Check for yourself the ice-time of Philly's Top 3 defense versus theirs. They distribute it more evenly.. we overload a 35 year old Pronger all the time.
Pronger is the BEST defenseman in the NHL. Maybe he wasn't during the season, but it's definitely arguable. Regardless of whether you feel he was a Norris snub or not, he's playing right now at a much higher level than Keith.

As far as the rest of our defense: Timonen is definitely better than Seabrook. Coburn is certainly on par with Hjalmarsson if not better, which I think he is. Carle is not as good as Campbell, but Pronger certainly makes him look as good.

Sopel is the best #5 defenseman out of both teams. The Flyers don't have the best bottom pairing, but their top is definitely better than Chicago's, particularly right now.

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And I think all three are better than Coburn.
Probably, but Coburn has been an absolute beast since March.

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One real problem tho.. is the toughness of Chicago. It neutralizes some of Philly's biggest advantage.
Really?


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05-24-2010, 01:02 PM
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rban with a horrendous post

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05-24-2010, 01:18 PM
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Unfortunately, worst case scenario, IMO, has just played itself out in the West.
I was hoping for a PHICHI match-up for travel reasons. I think coast to coast is a killer in a 7 game series and I thought it would have taken a bigger toll on our style of play.

I hope this isn't a case of "becareful what you wish for". Either way, if the Flyers make it to the Stanley Cup Finals, I would rather beat, or lose to, the Chicago Black Hawks. Beating the Sharks would be on par with the Phillies beating the Tampa Bay Rays, and losing to them would be even worse. I'd much rather play a team with a storied history.

Let's hope the Flyers wrap it up tonight so there's not a big difference in time off.

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05-24-2010, 02:50 PM
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Mr. Byfuglien, meet Mr. Pronger. He loves you not.

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05-24-2010, 03:09 PM
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Enough about Chicago already!
Back on topic, I think the Flyers do play better in the POs due to the game being called differently. A lot of the ticky tacky calls are not going against them. So they can play a real physical game. This must be a huge advantage. Mean while skill teams like Washington are worse off.

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05-24-2010, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Gagne - Richards - Carter
Hartnell - Briere - Leino
vanRiemsdyk - Giroux - Asham

Those aren't three scoring lines?

Is Giroux gonna be demoted to the third line? How well will he do there? He is doing great.. but he has played with star talent. How do u know a JVR-Girroux-Asham line will be really good?

Pronger has a decade of playing hockey in the dead-puck era before Byfuglien was even drafted against players as big and physical as Byfuglien if not more so.



Pronger is the BEST defenseman in the NHL. Maybe he wasn't during the season, but it's definitely arguable. Regardless of whether you feel he was a Norris snub or not, he's playing right now at a much higher level than Keith.

As far as the rest of our defense: Timonen is definitely better than Seabrook. Coburn is certainly on par with Hjalmarsson if not better, which I think he is. Carle is not as good as Campbell, but Pronger certainly makes him look as good.

Sopel is the best #5 defenseman out of both teams. The Flyers don't have the best bottom pairing, but their top is definitely better than Chicago's, particularly right now.



Probably, but Coburn has been an absolute beast since March.

No doubt, Pronger is great. But will he continue to perform at his hi level after 3 rounds of 30 minute games, and going up against a monster like Buff?

Really?
Is it really that hard to believe that the teams Flyers have faced so far .. we've had a decided advantage in physicality? Is it really beyond belief that the Hawks lineup will come closer to matching our physicality than the other teams?

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